Need info for 1979 CJ7 Renegade

[WalterD]

I just got me a project, a 79 CJ7, 304, Automatic, Dana 20 rear, Dana 30 front, I'm not sure about the transfercase type. There is a large selector switch on the dash that has something to do with " Highway driving" but I can't make out what else is on the faceplate. It has about 3 to 4 inch Skyjacker lift. What are the benefits of doing a shackle reversal if any? Does a SOA have any benefits other than adding lift?
Walter

[desertfabmotors]

I just got me a project, a 79 CJ7, 304, Automatic, Dana 20 rear, Dana 30 front, I'm not sure about the transfercase type. There is a large selector switch on the dash that has something to do with " Highway driving" but I can't make out what else is on the faceplate. It has about 3 to 4 inch Skyjacker lift. What are the benefits of doing a shackle reversal if any? Does a SOA have any benefits other than adding lift?
Walter


Great starter Jeep, The T-case you have is crap!! ( quadratrac ) The Trans is the Turbo 400.

Benefits to a SOA if done the correct way is a better ride with alot of Flex.
Shackle Rev. you will get a smoother ride and can move the axle forward some to stretch wheelbase.

[Billy 4 hp]

I just got me a project, a 79 CJ7, 304, Automatic, Dana 20 rear, Dana 30 front, I'm not sure about the transfercase type. There is a large selector switch on the dash that has something to do with " Highway driving" but I can't make out what else is on the faceplate. It has about 3 to 4 inch Skyjacker lift. What are the benefits of doing a shackle reversal if any? Does a SOA have any benefits other than adding lift?
Walter

Walter,

Glad to see another CJ owner onboard...

As Desert Fab stated you have a Quadratrac Jeep. The rear axle is an AMC 20 which can be built to be comparable to a Dana 44 (Ring and pinion is bigger but it needs one piece axles and welding of the axle tubes to the center section). Your rear AMC 20 is offset to one side which is undesirable since you really can't swap in a better transfercase without changing the rearend to a centered AMC 20 (the offset is so severe that your driveshaft would run on a sideways angle with either a Dana 20 or Dana 300 transfercase).

Also your special Turbo 400 (Quadratrac adapter and output shaft) won't just bolt up to say a Dana 20 or Dana 300 transfercase (97% sure of this). Start looking for either a Jeep CJ 999 auto with Dana 20 / Dana 300 (Dana 300 has a lower low range ratio) and AMC 20 or Dana 44 rearend or a Stick shift setup. If you stay narrow track you'll only need a rear axle assembly.

The Quadratrac transfercase is just a bottomless pit of money sucking power (been there and done it myself)...

If you do end up swapping axle(s) out, now is the perfect time to find a Wide Track (1982 to 1986) Jeep CJ as a donor vehicle to help get the tires away from the springs... You'd need front and rear axles for this...

PM me if you have any questions, the Quadratrac Jeeps were kinda an oddity and were one of the first full time fourwheel drive vehicles made along with the NP203 found in ton's of pickups and Blazer type vehicles of the 70's...

[WalterD]

The plan is to do some body work and armor and run it like it is until it dies. Then replace drivetrain and add fuel injection.
Thanks for the information.
Walter

[Last_Renegade]

Walter, check out this site....
http://www.cjoffroad.com/
I have the inline 6 in mine 258, with the 999 auto trans. I'm looking into a junkyard FI swap, use the HO head and FI set up from a 91 and up.
Here's a good write up no that....
http://www.geocities.com/035jeep/Moparpage1.html
You gotta put up some pics
Brian

[k7mto]

This thread reminded me that I want to schedule a CJ run sometime this spring (once I finish with some minor mods I'm doing now). It'd be nice and kind of a nostalgic sort of thing. Not that other makes couldn't participate, but a run which is predominantly CJ's for a change, rather than being the lone CJ amongst the YJ's and TJ's :)

I'll post something up in the runs forum soon and see what kind of response is generated.

[Cherokee-MP]

This thread reminded me that I want to schedule a CJ run sometime this spring (once I finish with some minor mods I'm doing now). It'd be nice and kind of a nostalgic sort of thing. Not that other makes couldn't participate, but a run which is predominantly CJ's for a change, rather than being the lone CJ amongst the YJ's and TJ's :)

I'll post something up in the runs forum soon and see what kind of response is generated.

I see... thats discrimination and the XJ's dont have to take it!:mad: lol im J/K of course :)

[k7mto]

I see... thats discrimination and the XJ's dont have to take it!:mad: lol im J/K of course :)

OK, XJ's can come too, but you have to run in the back of the line ;)

[UNSTUCK]

This thread reminded me that I want to schedule a CJ run sometime this spring (once I finish with some minor mods I'm doing now). It'd be nice and kind of a nostalgic sort of thing. Not that other makes couldn't participate, but a run which is predominantly CJ's for a change, rather than being the lone CJ amongst the YJ's and TJ's :)

I'll post something up in the runs forum soon and see what kind of response is generated.

You're reading my mind man. Who needs all those new jeeps?

OK, XJ's can come too, but you have to run in the back of the line and you have to BBQ lunch for us ;)

Fixed it for you,

[Cherokee-MP]

OK, XJ's can come too, but you have to run in the back of the line ;)

LOL!:D Yeah ok ok i have no problem running in the back and whoever wants some of my BBQ cooking as one other person said... Well lets just say i hope you like BBQ MRE's thats right Meals ready to eat courtesy of the Army LOL TASTY!! :D :p

[k7mto]

I posted a poll here (http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/showthread.php?t=19668) so we can stop hijacking Walter's thread :)

[chopped7]

I have the TH400 output shaft and adapter you would need to run a d20 t-case. I converted from q- trac to d20 years ago. I've since converted again and have the old stuff.

Many guys with corp 20 rear ends replace the axleshafts with aftermarket 1 piece 'shafts. That's a fine upgrade but you may be able to find a complete narrow track d44 for even less than than just buying 'shafts. I've tried to sell a couple on craigslist but there wasn't much interest. If you swap out the t-case to anything other than a d18, you'll want a new rear end with a centered diff anyway.

Like you said, run it 'til it breaks but do your homework now for what you want out of your Jeep in the future. You don't want to put money into a t-case or rear end you swap out later. The 304 and th400 are worth keeping imo. You have lots of options so do some research and listen to the guys that have built CJs. Maybe you won't make the same mistakes some have and save a few bucks.

[ob1jeeper]

Sorry to have to be blunt here, but those who've told you the original BorgWarner 1339 Quadra-Trac is crap are SADLY mis-guided and TERRIBLY mis-informed, and passing along a bunch of crap and old wive's tales...PERIOD...:p

The original BW1339 is still under my '76 CJ7, and has served me well for over 30 years and in excess of 400K miles, with a lone chain replacement around 300-325K.

The BW-1339 DOES indeed require attention and regular changes to the fluid, and that is NOT as cheap as many other fluids used in many other T/cases, but it IS still available through Mopar, and if properly taken care of, will last a VERY long time.

FWIW: My 7 came originally as a 258, but within 6 months, it was replaced by first an AMC 360, then later a 401. It has seen use for everything from a dune-runner and sand-drag car, during the nearly 18 years I lived in Yuma, to a DD for a number of years (thus the high miles), it's seen in excess of 50 trips across the Rubicon, beach running in Mexico, duties in the late 70's/early 80's as a pre-runner for the Baja, tow duties towing my vintage race car to the La Carrera, a trip to and through many of the trails in Johnson Valley, many many trips to Moab, Ouray, etc., etc. etc. Until just a few years ago, I drove it everywhere I went, but these days, in my old age, I'm too lazy to have to repair things that break on the trail just to be able to get home, so it gets trailered when I go places that are more than a few hours drive away.

IMHO, inspite of the fact that there are several mis-informed folks who poo-poo it, the ONLY down side to this t/case is that parts are beginning to get scarcer and someday they will be all-but impossible to find. Until then, I am more than satisfied with it's durability and performance, and my 7 is gonna stay as originally equipped, until I either have to park it, or find something else to replace the t/case & rear axle with.:cool:

Then agian, this is just the opinion and experiences of but one owner...:p Good Luck with your decision...;)

[chopped7]

Sorry to have to be blunt here, but those who've told you the original BorgWarner 1339 Quadra-Trac is crap are SADLY mis-guided and TERRIBLY mis-informed, and passing along a bunch of crap and old wive's tales...PERIOD...:p

The original BW1339 is still under my '76 CJ7, and has served me well for over 30 years and in excess of 400K miles, with a lone chain replacement around 300-325K.

The BW-1339 DOES indeed require attention and regular changes to the fluid, and that is NOT as cheap as many other fluids used in many other T/cases, but it IS still available through Mopar, and if properly taken care of, will last a VERY long time.

FWIW: My 7 came originally as a 258, but within 6 months, it was replaced by first an AMC 360, then later a 401. It has seen use for everything from a dune-runner and sand-drag car, during the nearly 18 years I lived in Yuma, to a DD for a number of years (thus the high miles), it's seen in excess of 50 trips across the Rubicon, beach running in Mexico, duties in the late 70's/early 80's as a pre-runner for the Baja, tow duties towing my vintage race car to the La Carrera, a trip to and through many of the trails in Johnson Valley, many many trips to Moab, Ouray, etc., etc. etc. Until just a few years ago, I drove it everywhere I went, but these days, in my old age, I'm too lazy to have to repair things that break on the trail just to be able to get home, so it gets trailered when I go places that are more than a few hours drive away.

IMHO, inspite of the fact that there are several mis-informed folks who poo-poo it, the ONLY down side to this t/case is that parts are beginning to get scarcer and someday they will be all-but impossible to find. Until then, I am more than satisfied with it's durability and performance, and my 7 is gonna stay as originally equipped, until I either have to park it, or find something else to replace the t/case & rear axle with.:cool:

Then again, this is just the opinion and experiences of but one owner...:p Good Luck with your decision...;)

I agree with your teachings of the venerable q-trac but the simple fact is, nobody wants them. Therefore, the aftermarket doesn't support it. It is an endangered species in the world of t-cases. Why hasn't anyone built a reduction unit with lower gears than 2.48:1? I don't know the answer but it's definitely a limiting factor if you want low, crawling gears. My 1339 served me well with the auto and v8 but it's not enough for rock crawling. It's fine for the mud and the dunes but most of the 4 wheeling here is rocks and low gears. Enough that I pulled my Jeep apart after my 1st trip to the rocks after moving to AZ to get bigger tires and lower t-case gearing than I could acheive with the setup I had(and it's still in pieces).

I, personally, would not throw a dollar at a q-trac but I would run the hell out of it until it broke. When the chain poops the bed, upgrade to a gear to gear t-case and centered diff rear so you don't have to try to get the rear hubs off ever again.

[OlneyJeeps]

Good to see that I am not alone in knowing the qualities of the Qtrac:D
IMHO those who bad mouth it are ( censored in favor of world peace):eek:
I have one in my J10 behind a mean 390 and love it (and have owned about a dozen with QTrac) . Worst problem is when I installed manual shift kit in my TH400... ate chains about every 8000mi:eek: (of cours also blew 44rear, 44front, twisted front drive shaft off, several blown hubs:eek: ). Harsh and sudden application of power will eat just about anything. As far as ratio, V8 always had plenty of power, so wasn't an issue (although I can see how it could be with a 258). With DD hard surface driving, the clutches/cones will wear out, but I still prefer FT4WD over 2wd any day (both my XJ and ZJ are FT4WD). When clutches worn out, I just use Dextron...works great.

Bottom line: learn how they work, or be stupid/whiny and call it junk. Although I would not switch to Qtrac, I would not switch from Qtrac (just as I would/did not switch from D20 to D300,unless I blew Qtrac and had all conversion parts on shelf).

If you have questions, feel free to call/email
SteveO

[Billy 4 hp]

Take is easy there fellas... Well I didn't bad mouth it IMO, just saying that Quadra Trac equipped Jeeps were usually screwed with beyond belief and kinda rare even rarer to find one that hasn't been messed with that still even works properly. Hell it's rare just to find a decent CJ these days. If it works, bless it and run it till it goes no more..

My personal experience was with a 401 powered CJ7 that had a inproperly installed Mile Marker part time kit Quadra Trac t-case that was missing parts, vacuum module, (did we even ask Walter if his new to him CJ has hubs or drive flanges in the front?) etc... Cost a small fortune and months to find the right parts and make it all work. It was my first and well last Quadra Trac CJ I will ever own. Don't like being tied to the special fluids and idiosyncracies (sp?) and lack of parts availability... Baker Offroad helped me back in those days and if he couldn't figure it out, nobody could...

Oh I hope my fellow CJ'ers that were just previously bashing me (stupid / whiny call it junk.. I think those were the words, right?) are going on the CJ run, I'll be flicking boogers on ya.... :D As far as beeing misinformed with Jeep vehicles I started Jeeping with an FC150 / FC170 can ya top that (or do you know what it even is)???

Hey Walter does your CJ have locking hubs or solid drive flanges on the front axle???

[Oc1paddler]

Well I have to agree with both sides. I had a quadra trac unit in my first jeep and I beat the snot out of it. It held up for a long time but when the chain let go it took out the whole case plus. Seeing as I was young and on a serious budget it took forever to find and get the parts I needed without buying a whole new transfercase. The chain drive and clutches would steer me away from them on any future purchases. Its hard to go wrong with a gear driven T-case.

[ob1jeeper]

Take is easy there fellas... Well I didn't bad mouth it IMO, just saying that Quadra Trac equipped Jeeps were usually screwed with beyond belief and kinda rare even rarer to find one that hasn't been messed with that still even works properly. Hell it's rare just to find a decent CJ these days. If it works, bless it and run it till it goes no more..

My personal experience was with a 401 powered CJ7 that had a inproperly installed Mile Marker part time kit Quadra Trac t-case that was missing parts, vacuum module, (did we even ask Walter if his new to him CJ has hubs or drive flanges in the front?) etc... Cost a small fortune and months to find the right parts and make it all work. It was my first and well last Quadra Trac CJ I will ever own. Don't like being tied to the special fluids and idiosyncracies (sp?) and lack of parts availability... Baker Offroad helped me back in those days and if he couldn't figure it out, nobody could...

Oh I hope my fellow CJ'ers that were just previously bashing me (stupid / whiny call it junk.. I think those were the words, right?) are going on the CJ run, I'll be flicking boogers on ya.... :D As far as beeing misinformed with Jeep vehicles I started Jeeping with an FC150 / FC170 can ya top that (or do you know what it even is)???

Hey Walter does your CJ have locking hubs or solid drive flanges on the front axle???

FC150 is so called because of the "forward control" driver position (cab-over). The FC 170 was it's "HD" cousin, and also was available in a dual rear wheel variant.

The FC's were truly the first "small" forward cab or cab-over utility vehicles to hit the NA market, well ahead of the one which is credited with starting the "van" boom, the Ford econoline van.

But there's really no need to be pounding chests about who has more knowledge or experience with Jeeps, nor resorting to calling folks out to see who could/would be flicking boogers on anyone...:rolleyes:

In your posts, you indicated that the QT you had was fraught with mis-installed/poorly installed and/or many missing parts... All I know how to answer that is that the same can be said of any piece of machinery that is poorly/improperly installed, maintained, and/or abused... It's typically NOT going to provide very good service.

The experieence you shared is hardly an experience I'd call worthy of being used to form a viable opinion of it's durabiility or suitability for long-term uses.

So...I stand by what I said in my earlier post... The BW Qt's are mal-aligned by those who are sadly mis-informed about thier true attributes.:) ;)

[Billy 4 hp]

So what are the chances of finding anything CJ that has been properly maintained and used without the previous owner(s) trying to kill it in one or another. I am sure there are a few examples of Quadra Trac CJ's (yours might be an example as it seems you maintain your stuff) but they are surely few and far between. Jeeps are one of the worst vehicles to buy used as most people that own them also own a stick welder and more butt connectors than I have ever seen... I hope for Walter's sake that his Jeep is unmolested and working fine. I was just giving my .02 about my previous experience and what I knew.

I guess since I don't align myself with the teachings of certain others that I do not know from Adam and form my own opinions from my own experiences that this makes me a misinformed basher...:rolleyes:

And obviously we disagree, I think anything built or designed by BW is basically cr*p and you don't, this is my opinion and you have expressed yours... I also think the NP203 was garbage and what Chrysler is doing to the Jeep name (urban utility vehicles) is a shame, but what the heck... Agree to disagree or let's do a Jeep tug of war to end it (you'll find I get a bit juvenile as your posts tend to get a bit more high brow it seems)??? :D

If the Quadra Trac was the end all of t-cases it would still be around today (I am sure you know of some current BW t-case that is the great great grandson of the Quadra Trac so let's not go there), but so would a Dana 300 so both are either not cost effective to produce or had functioning issues that make them unviable in todays auto market... I thank my lucky stars that the aftermarket still produces any parts for any older Jeep. The Quadra Trac was just one of the early victims be it a good or bad design... We are probably both good sources of Jeep knowledge so why are we butting heads on a damn t-case. Let's go for world peace, well maybe we shouldn't open that can of worms....

Obviously you've been around here for awhile and I haven't so I expected a little gentle ribbing from the "around here for awhile guys" but this is borderline ridiculous. I'm not one to sit by and do willy nilly posts about nothing. I actually work on my Jeep, not pay someone to do it for me and it seems you have done the same so I commend you on that. I have been working on and building my own vehicles all of my life and I consider myself lucky to have the knowledge I have attained over 25 years (I am 36 years old) of hands on experience and like to help those who request an opinion or some guidance by offering what I know, have seen, or done and I will continue to do so. And if I was pounding my chest about Jeep's you should hear me gloat about the other stuff I've done... :)

Here's possibly a good source of information on Jeep transfercases that I in no way shape or form had anything to do in it's writing or publication: http://www.4x4review.com/tech/tCase-spotters-guide/default.asp

Cheers

[WalterD]

Hey Walter does your CJ have locking hubs or solid drive flanges on the front axle???

Solid Drive Flanges. There is also a dash mounted selector knob that has two positions, one for normal driving and one for emergency only use. Trying to find a manual or something for more information.
Thanks to all for the information. Walter

[WalterD]

Reading in other posts, some say a shackle reversal moves the front axle forward giving more wheelbase. What are the disadvantages to doing this?
Walter

[ob1jeeper]

Reading in other posts, some say a shackle reversal moves the front axle forward giving more wheelbase. What are the disadvantages to doing this?
Walter
Welcome Walter,

I apologize if it seems we've hijacked your thread... Seems I may have touched a raw nerve with young william...:o

From you posts, it would seem that the 7 you have obtained sounds as if it may be one that has escaped the aforementioned and described ravages of previous owners. If so, you indeed have a vehicle worthy of learning as much as you can about, and attempting to keep clean, while up-fitting any modifications required, to suit your style of wheeling needs.

LOTS of folks will extoll the virtures of a variety of modifications they have, or have spent $$'s on, but in essentially stock trim, the CJ, and all of the CJ/Wrangler vehicles are capable of significantly more than many of thier owners.

I would simply caution you to not get caught up in all the hype about how you NEED a shackle reversal, or now you NEED 4+ inches of lift, or 37" tires, or Dana 60's, or SOA conversions, etc. etc. in order to be capable of negotiating many trails. While some of those mods may indeed make some of those trails easier, some will do nothing more than spend your money with little or no true value in return, and/or may seriously compromise it's on-road attributes.

I've run a basically stock suspension, on my 7 for well over 400K, over trails that many of the same folks with big mods told me it would not go. Not attempting to brag, just letting you know that driver experience and caution are more important to negotiating a trail, while preserving your vehicle, than whole-hog stomping of the gas, when you feel stumped by an obstacle.

There is almost ALWAYS a line your vehicle can negotiate with minimal damage out of most situations. You usually simply have to work it a bit more. If you find the trails you wish to run are too difficult, without resulting in damages, and that is the type of wheeling you wish to participate in, then by all means research the things that are required to be able to do so, and add those items as you find the need to.

Just be aware that those modifications can be a never-ending quest for just a little more, until your vehicle barely resembles a Jeep any longer.

Simply all depends on how much $$ you wish to spend...

On the subject of shackle reversals, I am not a fan of them as they tend to cause a reduction in available traction when attempting to negotiate severe/steep climbs, and most also negatively impact the anti-dive characteristics of the suspension during severe braking as well.

Hope some of this helps...:) ;)

[Billy 4 hp]

Well h*ll OB1 we agree :D , I too found the shackle reversal kits to make a shorter wheel base vehicle (like a CJ) hop on steep inclines more so than a standard shackle in the front setup... And since were both on 32's (OB1 and myself) were not as far apart as some might think reading the previous posts... Oh the places I have been abusing a CJ2A with stock suspension and 16.0 x 6 NTD's :cool: ...

But the shackle reversals do make the on road ride a bit smoother, particularly if you use nasty stiff lift springs, but only if you get the shackle angle correct when you move it to the rear...

Young William, I love it...:D

[OlneyJeeps]

I did a shackle inversion (along with replacing front springs with YJ rear springs) and think it was one of the best upgrades made...originally with 33's and now 35's, rides great and straight at 5 or 75. I think the wheel hop could be a great concern, but mostly only if you had a manual.

As for Qtrac (on my J10), because I never trusted "dummy" light / indicator, and so I could disconnect if/when I broke anything, I installed locking hubs up front (and just left in "lock" position)

If you need help/want full rundown of Qtrac (and other parts of CJ), give me a call... I have a couple on the shelves, and about 30years experience with them (first was in a '73 Waggy)

SteveO

[Oc1paddler]

Walter,
You will find as many opinions on shackle reversals as you will on the quadra trac transfer case. Most of what you will hear will be true to some degree.
There are definite pros and cons. I did mine and this is what Ive noticed on mine.
Cons are that I need to run a really long slip on my front drive shaft. If I hit a bump really hard at speed my front tire rubs my firewall.
Pros are a better ride, no shackle's hanging down in the front. I have a couple of friends with no shackle reversals and they are always banging their shackles on ledges that I clear. The other huge advantage Ive found is that before the reversal when I would really flex the jeep the front shackle would invert. It was really tough and kind of scary to get it back to normal every time it happened. I haven't had any problem with hopping but maybe Iam just lucky. Iam happy with mine but I know that you can find very capable jeeps with and without shackle reversal. So take your time and then due what works for U.

[chopped7]

I just want to weigh in on the shackle reversal. I kept mine shackle forward because of the way leaf springs work. With shackle forward, as the spring compresses the axle moves forward. This action will push your tires into the obstacle that is causing the spring to compress. Lets say the obstacle is a rock, waterfall, etc. If you are trying to climb something, the leaf spring pushing the axle forward is going to give your tires a better chance to get traction than a shackle reversal moving the axle toward the rear away from the obstacle. I guess in short, I would rather have the tires digging into the obstacle I'm trying to overcome than digging into the the firewall.

[Billy 4 hp]

Walter,
You will find as many opinions on shackle reversals as you will on the quadra trac transfer case. Most of what you will hear will be true to some degree.
There are definite pros and cons. I did mine and this is what Ive noticed on mine.
Cons are that I need to run a really long slip on my front drive shaft. If I hit a bump really hard at speed my front tire rubs my firewall.
Pros are a better ride, no shackle's hanging down in the front. I have a couple of friends with no shackle reversals and they are always banging their shackles on ledges that I clear. The other huge advantage Ive found is that before the reversal when I would really flex the jeep the front shackle would invert. It was really tough and kind of scary to get it back to normal every time it happened. I haven't had any problem with hopping but maybe Iam just lucky. Iam happy with mine but I know that you can find very capable jeeps with and without shackle reversal. So take your time and then due what works for U.

You oughta see my Tera Flex two piece shackles work (nonreversed)... Now that's scary looking when they fall away from each other than come back together... I have yet to get on a really nasty solid rock incline but I bet with the V8 and low gearing I could get them to "seperate" as they are intended to do to help increase articulation with stock length CJ springs...

[OlneyJeeps]

I just want to weigh in on the shackle reversal. I kept mine shackle forward because of the way leaf springs work. With shackle forward, as the spring compresses the axle moves forward. This action will push your tires into the obstacle that is causing the spring to compress. Lets say the obstacle is a rock, waterfall, etc. If you are trying to climb something, the leaf spring pushing the axle forward is going to give your tires a better chance to get traction than a shackle reversal moving the axle toward the rear away from the obstacle. I guess in short, I would rather have the tires digging into the obstacle I'm trying to overcome than digging into the the firewall.

ist that why so many rockcrawlers (that havent gone coil) have shackle inversions?:eek: :D

[WalterD]

ist that why so many rockcrawlers (that havent gone coil) have shackle inversions?:eek: :D

So what's the difference between shackle reversal and shackle inversion?
Walter

[ob1jeeper]

So what's the difference between shackle reversal and shackle inversion?
Walter
Good question... I know that for a Jeep CJ, a front spring shackle reversal is what happens when you re-locate the spring pivots to the front of the frame (IE: relocate to where the shackled ends were originally), thereby forcing a relocation of the shackled ends of the springs to the rear (where the OEM front spring pivots were formerly located.)

I'm guessing by the way he worded his statement, that Olney is referring to the same thing, but simly named it an inversion, but I could also be worng with that assumption...:p :D ;)

[ob1jeeper]

ist that why so many rockcrawlers (that havent gone coil) have shackle inversions?:eek: :D
The reason most severe rock crawlers have done this reversal, is A- because kits are readily avialable, and B- because with the lifts they run, the change in length of the spring requires LONGER shackles for the spring to flex through it's full range, without causing the shackles to invert or bind up.

Unless you're willing to move the pivot points of the shackles UP, that means the shackle pivot is now lower and less protected than before, which can lead to the spring digging in against obstacles, which results in columnar loading on the spring and causes a tendency for it to buckle.

The EASY way out is to swap ends on the springs, and accept the fact that it will not perform quite as well from a traction point of view, which is offset by the fact that one can overcome that small traction loss, with more aggressive driving (momentum), and letting the frame and pivot bracket take the brunt of the impact, with less possibility of suspension damage.

Not as elegant as it COULD be for smooth slow-going rock crawling, but it is effective with less suspension & frame mods, because of the over-the-counter avialibility of the shackle reversal kits, which were originally designed for the HS desert Racer crowd, where slow-go elegant traction was and is, not a priority.

The REAL plusses of a shackle reversal are:
1-Lateral compliance stiffness gained from a steering point of view, which provides crisper steering at speed.
2- Placing the suspension locating arm (in this case the suspension spring) in tension, so that when a deep wash or other fore-aft obstacle is encountered at high speeds, the load on the suspension arm is TENSION, rather than compression.

FWIW: ALL columnar devices (suspension arms included) are WAY less likely to buckle and fail in tension than they are in compression, thus, for a given size of material used, it provides a part that is less likely to cause the HS desert racer crowd vehicles to end thier race early...

:) ;)

[WalterD]

Here is a pic of the CJ7 at beginning.
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t291/WalterD_photo/CIMG0398.jpg

[ob1jeeper]

Pretty rare these days to see a 7 that hasn't been molested by well meaning, but sadly mis-informed owners...:(

I'd say you have one that's lookin' pretty durned sharp...:D ;)

[Last_Renegade]

Hey Walter...
Do you pass by Deer Valley Airport area??? Think i seen ya last week, I have a brown 86 Renegade w/ red and orange stripes....
Brian

[WalterD]

A couple of pics so far

Here is what we started with
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t291/WalterD_photo/CIMG0400.jpg

Before Herc
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t291/WalterD_photo/CIMG2163.jpg

After Herc
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t291/WalterD_photo/CIMG2169.jpg

Gen-Right not yet mounted
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t291/WalterD_photo/CIMG2698.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t291/WalterD_photo/CIMG2696.jpg

Long way to go.
Walter

[ob1jeeper]

Looks purdy durned good to me...:D ;)

[idontknow]

that is a sharp lokin CJ. the first thing i did on mine aftyer i broke a u-joint was buy warn hubs. driving with a broken axle u-joint is not so fun!

they also let me weld my front dif and still be able to drive it.

[WalterD]

CJ is getting there, slowly but surely. Does this look like a Collector? According to my insurance it is.:) So if and when you see it on the trail, for a nominal fee I will allow you to touch one of the tires. And for a slightly elevated fee I will let you sit in it. Isn't that how Collectors work? THANKS Billy 4 HP someday we will have to get together and have a Collectors run.:eek:

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t291/WalterD_photo/CIMG2942.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t291/WalterD_photo/CIMG2941.jpg

[Billy 4 hp]

Looks very nice WalterD, you oughta be proud....

Just asking, how did your crush corner install go? I'm about half through fine and just working on getting them to fit up nicely to the older Sun Performance rock sliders my CJ7 has....

I'm a self admitted whimp when it comes to the heat though, so I'm just going slow and steady....

[WalterD]

I edited previous post. Check it out

[WalterD]

Looks very nice WalterD, you oughta be proud....

Just asking, how did your crush corner install go? I'm about half through fine and just working on getting them to fit up nicely to the older Sun Performance rock sliders my CJ7 has....

I'm a self admitted whimp when it comes to the heat though, so I'm just going slow and steady....

Corners and rockers were a piece of cake. As far as the heat goes. Sit inside a vehicle in the sun at noon with windows closed for about 15 minutes. Once you get out it will feel real cool outside. At least for a little while.

[Billy 4 hp]

Corners and rockers were a piece of cake. As far as the heat goes. Sit inside a vehicle in the sun at noon with windows closed for about 15 minutes. Once you get out it will feel real cool outside. At least for a little while.

Well I have been here for about 20 years and the heat just sucks the life out of me....

Or lately it might have something to do with me being locked in a engine dyno cell with a 112 deg F air temp lashing valves, run the engine, lash the valves again.... Blah blah, darn sprint cars....:D

Doesn't CJ stand for Collector Jeep???

http://www.imageuploads.net/ims/pic.php?u=17052zGQuI&i=127626