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View Full Version : Christmas Tree Burn



Ruben Aviles
01-02-2004, 01:46 PM
Anyone going to Sycamore Creek in a couple of weeks for the burning festivities? I missed it last year but definately going this year.

cherokee4x4man
01-02-2004, 04:51 PM
I will defenitly be there I got out there almost every sat. night for some wheelin and partying last year they shut it down so everyone went to upper syc. instead but anyways yeah we will be out there this sat. and at least the next 5 after that.

ChrisK
01-02-2004, 05:47 PM
Is this event legal? No, I'm not trying to stir anything up. I'm just curious.

Hackle
01-02-2004, 05:59 PM
All I can say is the Agnecies were writing tickets last year and they already know it is an annual event. I would not be surprised to see a large turnout to write tickets.
Jim F.

Ruben Aviles
01-02-2004, 06:04 PM
I know they stop vehicles from entering at a limit but I would assume they would write tickets out if you were doing something illegal. Theres nothing wrong with going and spectating. I've had a good time the last two times I went.

Hackle
01-02-2004, 06:11 PM
Ruben I understand your point and agree with you. My intent was to just warn everyone if they screwed up there would be plenty of prople there to point it out.
Jim F.

Ruben Aviles
01-02-2004, 06:25 PM
I got ya Hackle.

Ruben Aviles
01-02-2004, 06:28 PM
I'm thinking about taking a roll of 4mil. trash bags and hand them out to who all would like them so we have less to clean up next time. It might be a lost cause but every bit helps.

Hackle
01-02-2004, 06:32 PM
That would be a great idea. We have to educate the others when ever we can. There is also a clena-up planned for Feb. 28th in that area. Make up some flyers and hand them out at the same time. Info is on the AZVJC web page.
Jim F.

Ruben Aviles
01-02-2004, 06:40 PM
That's a great idea. I could staple them to the bags or something.

cherokee4x4man
01-02-2004, 08:27 PM
this time of year last year there was a strong precense of the law and lots of arrest for dui in the desert so we dont drink while we are there and watch for the local sheriffs.

Joe-CJ7
01-05-2004, 11:40 AM
I would be carefull out there but like you all said as a spectator what can they say. you were out for a nice night run and just happened to see all of these people so you went to check it out.

jk

cherokee4x4man
01-05-2004, 02:57 PM
Well there were no sheriffs out there last saturday night and next weekend is sopposed to be the x-mas tree burn so we will see if there is any police envloment this year.

Ruben Aviles
01-05-2004, 06:18 PM
I have never brought a tree. Is it illegal to bring a tree out there? Wasn't sure if that would be concidered dumping or not. The 2nd and 3rd Saturday's of January are the biggest nights.

cherokee4x4man
01-07-2004, 02:16 PM
No its not illegal to bring out x-mas trees if they are tyring to drive people out they just put up no-fire signs and ticket anyone who does light one up. But that is even only till midnight so who really cares.

Greg Lochner
01-07-2004, 08:35 PM
So when is "THE DAY"

Flatty YJ
01-07-2004, 09:24 PM
I had a good time watching quads and sand rails drag race under the lights there last year. If this is your first time out, use some common sense and stay away from the idiots.

cherokee4x4man
01-08-2004, 07:10 AM
It should be this saturday night

Sandee McCullen
01-10-2004, 01:32 AM
"So who really cares?"................. everyone will care if a fire gets out of control and we end up losing Sycamore forever. A campfire is NOT what we're talking about with a Tree Burn. By simply "moving to another spot" is not the answer. The AzVJC may not be the instigators of this action but you can bet your butts they are who are "accused".

For the most part the AzVJC have a very good relationship with the agencies and they agencies look to us for partnerships....... organizing, or participating in, responsible OHV recreation or community help. An illegal burn is simply making all OHV recreationists look bad............. mainly the AzVJC because the FS do think the AzVJC is behind this action.

Being a "spectator" and telling some goofy story of "why" you're there isn't working. I can't believe some of you seem to think the law enforcement guys are idiots. They will work with us if we give them half a chance.

This event could be made legal AND fun.............. the group could apply for a burn permit which will allow fire details to watch the fire, as well as educate fire safety, so it doesn't get out of control. Several surrounding states do a "Tree Burn" and with some control it can be fun and safe.

AzVJC needs to be a partnership of responsible recreationists, not a bunch of rowdies that feel they can do whatever they wish. If you know the rangers or sheriff will be on site it should give you some clue there's a problem.

I hope everyone will take a breath and truly think about what an action like this does to us all.

cherokee4x4man
01-10-2004, 03:00 AM
Are you kidding me I have never meet a really intellegent police officer or deputy thats why there there for lack of ablitiy to do anything but try to act macho and control people. Its hard to blame a club for something that was going on before the azvjc was an idea in the founders head. You can say what ever you want but anyone who is going to go out to sycamore on a saturday night is doing it no matter what your "opinion".

Sandee McCullen
01-10-2004, 09:24 AM
Cherokee 4x4......
At no time did I indicate AzVJC "Started" the Tree Burn. I know this has been going on for some years. In the 60's & 70's there were "permitted" burns in the riverbed............... the recent years have shown Rave Parties, drugs, excessive alcohol, disorderly conduct, fights and in general................. riot atmosphere. AzVJC have simply been "accused". Doesn't matter who "planned" the event..... Being there brings forth the "associated with" or "accessory to"........ this then flows over to ALL OHV recreationists, whether responsible or not.

You may not think it's "illegal" to bring Christmas Trees out....... whether they're "burned" or not. Yes, it's called "illegal dumping". This is the stuff the responsible recreationist spends hours and dollars to clean up each year. Table Mesa, Sycamore, Rolls, Lake Pleasant, Florence Junction etc. Each dumpster the agencies supply at the cleanups cost $400.00. Bags are not free.............. nor is their time they spend to help US.

Your attitude regarding law enforcement simply shows your mentality and that's truly your business. I suppose you feel the same way about the guys and gals that are defending YOU and our country through the Armed Forces. Bunch of "power mongers" I guess.

You are correct in that some law enforcement tend to have an attitude but we'd be in a bunch of problems without our law enforcement force.................. "legal" doesn't take away our fun. .... irresponsibility; yahoos; ......... (you know the words) take away our fun.

Joe West
01-10-2004, 11:43 AM
Hmmm....

You have never met a "really intellegent" (which by the way is spelled intelligent) police officer?

I hate to say this cherokee... but you must not interface with officers much... or if you do; perhaps it is under the wrong circumstances.

I know PLENTY of officers who are the greatest guys you'd ever want to meet... intelligent, honest, and doing a job that is both dangerous and EXTREMELY underpaid.

Perhaps you need to get out and do some runs with the police officers and former officers who are in this group; I think you'll change your mind.

Joe West


Originally posted by cherokee4x4man
Are you kidding me I have never meet a really intellegent police officer or deputy thats why there there for lack of ablitiy to do anything but try to act macho and control people. Its hard to blame a club for something that was going on before the azvjc was an idea in the founders head. You can say what ever you want but anyone who is going to go out to sycamore on a saturday night is doing it no matter what your "opinion".

jeepin_in_az
01-10-2004, 12:42 PM
The tree burn is tonight right?

Sandee McCullen
01-10-2004, 12:46 PM
There will be no "Tree Burn" tonight............ the FS Rangers are on site today and tonight and anyone with a "tree" will be turned away and possibly cited. Hopefully AzVJC do not get their name associated with this event.

If a AzVJC Sticker is seen you can bet it won't be in a positive light.

jeepin_in_az
01-10-2004, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by Sandee McCullen
There will be no "Tree Burn" tonight............ the FS Rangers are on site today and tonight and anyone with a "tree" will be turned away and possibly cited. Hopefully AzVJC do not get their name associated with this event.

If a AzVJC Sticker is seen you can bet it won't be in a positive light.


So if we go out there to wheel, with a VJC sticker, they will assume we are going to burn a tree?

Sounds like over bearing FS and Sheriffs. You know what they say about people who *** u me.

Joe West
01-10-2004, 02:41 PM
I think the key to what Sandee said is if you get caught with a "tree"... I'm not thinking that if you are out wheeling there will be a problem... unless of course you normally tuck your christmas tree into your vehicle for a run :)

Joe



Originally posted by jeepin_in_az
So if we go out there to wheel, with a VJC sticker, they will assume we are going to burn a tree?

Sounds like over bearing FS and Sheriffs. You know what they say about people who *** u me.

Nnote
01-10-2004, 02:44 PM
A fire ban is in effect for the next couple weekends which also includes sycamore creek. Guess why a fire ban is in effect...Hmm... Anyways. I'm sure people will go but a fire will get you busted real quick. Seems it was all started by a home owners association that orginized it years back so the families in the neighboorhood could dispose of their trees. It just grew from there.
Nick

Nnote
01-10-2004, 02:44 PM
Oh sorry, the ban is in effect for specificly Tonto national forest.

Sandee McCullen
01-10-2004, 03:25 PM
No, I did not say FS would assume all AzVJC were going to "burn a tree".

FS and/or Sheriff will be turning all those with trees away............ they have no problem with OHV recreation. BUT........... if the tree burners move to another site, as has been stated, and AzVJC stickers are seen at the site they will assume AzVJC are involved.................. "guilty by association" stuff.

I'm done with this. I believe you all know and understand the gist of what I'm saying...................
Let "responsibility" and "common sense" be your guide.

highjeeps
01-10-2004, 05:04 PM
Lower Sycamore is closed off. This afternoon on my way back from the Sunflower Mine area, there were several jeeps gathered at the Upper Sycamore (across from the Four Peaks I/O) and there was a lighted highway sign stating Lower Sycamore was closed. The I/O to Lower Sycamore was coned off with official vehicles all around, and I think people aleady in there were being herded out.

Larry

blackeyedt
01-11-2004, 07:46 AM
The AZ Republic had a story on it yesterday a.m. stating that police will be there to stop it! So.. What happened ???

Flexy
01-11-2004, 10:08 AM
OK, well after reading this entire post, I am going to try and not ramble in the pissed off mood that it just gave me.. So I might start a firestorm here, but thats what I am known for....Ok so you think police are just arrogant, rude a-holes right????( I know not the EXACT WORDS but close enough)... So when you come home and find your house robbed, your wife tied up to a chair....who ya gonna call??? GHOSTBUSTERS??? I think not. I bet you call one of those A holes.....ahhhh the roles have changed now.... I see... so when YOU want to do something YOU think is fun and they Pull you over, THEY are the *******s. I would BET all of the $$$ I have that you attitude to the officer is 5 times more aggro than he was to you.....but wait, lets flash back to the buglerized home/invasion........you want JUSTICE...damnit....they broke into YOUR house and tied YOUR wife up to a chair.....Damnit...NOW you want justice....well you know what??? All of those a-holes at sycamore burning trees, dumping trash, and just being idiots....well now I want justice.. And you are the crook. Now how does it feel.....C'mon man there is no "real" wheelin at sycamore....if thats where you think is "cool" than so be it......BUT Why dont you come out to where I think is cool (table mesa) and help clean some of it up???? Maybe then you will see why you just pissed so many people off and were too stupid to even realize it. I spent 6 hours @ table mesa last year with a LARGE group of other VJC'ers picking up trash left by the people you think are cool.....I bet you have not even been to a clean up, or will even be at this one......but hey If I gotta tell you we are gonna shoot some beer cans and burn a X-mas tree will you be there???? You, My friend, In my opinion are an un-educated moron, that deserves everthing he gets. you have NO idea what sandee, Hackle and MANY other people do for YOU so you can take your jeep offroad..MORON .Flame on if you feel the need..



Joe


(stepping off of soap box)

Desertjeep
01-25-2004, 01:22 AM
Soooo did anyone go? Where there any trees burning out there or did the cops police the area?

Sandee McCullen
01-25-2004, 09:40 AM
The "tree burn" didn't happen at Lower Sycamore. From what was reported in the weekly FS meeting was: The area was closed around mid day because there were too many vehicles already in the area................ it was felt there would be serious control problems if the numbers increased any more. I was told there were an estimated 20,000 by mid day???????????

I don't know if the die hard "rule breakers" went ahead and simply moved to another site but Tonto is "talking about closure" again. I think it's just a "frustration threat" but we'll definitely have to keep up with our push to encourage them to continue with plans for an official OHV park in this area. My presentation is not only to retain the trails in the area but add a tire pit, rock pile, log jamb, maybe a mud pit, and add picnic/camping areas with firepits and potties...........

I talked to them for some time about permiting an official "tree burn" and I think they are interested.............. particularly if we can combine it with a "tree habitat" project at the lakes........

More on this project later.............. the main issue is to keep the "rowdies".......... (those of you that have a problem with this word can certainly use your own....... you know who you are) from ruining it for all the responsible recreationists.

That's all I know about the actual area................

Desertjeep
01-25-2004, 01:53 PM
wow 20,000! that is a lot of people.

Thanks Sandee. I can understand the FS fustration especially with that many people in one day. I think it would also justify a OHV park too.

Please keep us up to date on the park issue.