Rock Ram Problems

[BamBam]

I have a 97 TJ with a rebuilt and ported stock box running a Vanco high flow hydroboost setup with a high volume 4.0 GPM high pressure 1500 PSI PSC ps pump.

I just had a 2" howe rock ram installed and now my steering is very slow and heavy. It has turning power but not the one finger type. If you try to turn fast in either direction it just won't respond very quick and of course when you try to correct back the opposite direction it is even worse. When cruising down a sand wash at speed you cannot make the sharp turns.

The hydroboost brakes work great, no fade or any problems but that is what a high flow is for, it is not supposed to take away pressure from the steering system.

Anyone have feedback on how thier systems work? Any suggestions on what may be the problem? Ram to big, should I have used a 1.5" ram? Low pressure? Low volume?

DCMP

[xFallen]

I have a 97 TJ with a rebuilt and ported stock box running a Vanco high flow hydroboost setup with a high volume 4.0 GPM high pressure 1500 PSI PSC ps pump.

I just had a 2" howe rock ram installed and now my steering is very slow and heavy. It has turning power but not the one finger type. If you try to turn fast in either direction it just won't respond very quick and of course when you try to correct back the opposite direction it is even worse. When cruising down a sand wash at speed you cannot make the sharp turns.

The hydroboost brakes work great, no fade or any problems but that is what a high flow is for, it is not supposed to take away pressure from the steering system.

Anyone have feedback on how thier systems work? Any suggestions on what may be the problem? Ram to big, should I have used a 1.5" ram? Low pressure? Low volume?

DCMP

Is it sluggish at all RPMs or only at or close to idle? I have a stock pump that has been breathed on a bit. Pumps at 1500 psi too but probably much less than 4 gpm you get from your PSC. The ram I use is 8" x 1.5".

Assuming no air in the PS fluid problems, if your turning speed is crappy at all RPMs then you likely have not enough flow for the size of your ram. If you have good turning speed and power at higher RPMs but not at lower then you may need to drive your pump a bit faster with a smaller pulley.

It is also possible that you still have air in the system but you should probably be able to hear that. You probably already know about such things but here it is anyway. Check the reservoir after using the steering (with the engine off) and see if the fluid is frothy or milky at all. Often you can hear the whine from the pump if there's a lot of air in the system. If there is air, you want to be sure the system isn't sucking air somewhere. Probably not since your brakes work, but it depends on how everything is set up of course.

Best of luck sorting it out.


Barry

[BamBam]

Hey Barry,

The whole PS system is sluggish all the time. low idle or high it makes no difference. I can put the jeep in neutral and rev it up and it does not make the system go any faster so I don't think it is a pressure problem. If anything it is probably a flow issue.

How is the speed on your 1.5" ram? does it feel like basic PS should?

Thanks for the info

Russell

[xFallen]

Hey Barry,

The whole PS system is sluggish all the time. low idle or high it makes no difference. I can put the jeep in neutral and rev it up and it does not make the system go any faster so I don't think it is a pressure problem. If anything it is probably a flow issue.

How is the speed on your 1.5" ram? does it feel like basic PS should?

Thanks for the info

Russell

Yes, on mine it does. At idle or low RPMs it can be sluggish but with some RPM behind it o0ne finger is all that is required to move quickly lock to lock.

It sounds possibke that your pump just can't keep up with the demands of the ram. PSC has a few different models of pump. Is yours the extreme duty version 4.5 gpm @ 1600 psi? Sounds like it might actually be that one. I would think that would be enough fl;ow for a 2" ram but maybe not.

No kinked hoses anywhere?

What size lines to and from the steering box?


Barry

[BamBam]

Yes my pump is the high pressure high flow PSC TP pump. It puts out enough pressure and flow to work a hydroboost unit just fine and those are flow and pressure hogs. The hoses I think are 1/4" and run straight from the box to the ram, no kinks. Maybe one of the hoses is obstructed somehow? I will keep on checking things out.

Come to think of it, if my pump was not putting out enough pressure than I should be able to rev the motor and get more response but it does not make a difference. I will just have to do a process of elimination.

[xFallen]

Yes my pump is the high pressure high flow PSC TP pump. It puts out enough pressure and flow to work a hydroboost unit just fine and those are flow and pressure hogs. The hoses I think are 1/4" and run straight from the box to the ram, no kinks. Maybe one of the hoses is obstructed somehow? I will keep on checking things out.

Come to think of it, if my pump was not putting out enough pressure than I should be able to rev the motor and get more response but it does not make a difference. I will just have to do a process of elimination.

I am curious what you find out. I just got back from a trip up CD, Predator and Annihilator. While on the later my little SWB TJ was pretty vertical and the pump was whining a few times. I think it probably gulped some air and cavitated. After that steering was crappy until it cooled off. It never returned 100%. I will check it out after it has totally cooled.

I do run the hydraulic fluid through a cooler on the return line from the box.

anyway, I would like to know what you find.


Barry

[RufftyTuffty]

As the ram diameter gets bigger the response will be slower but more powerful....but if your running a HP pump it shouldn't be that bad.

Is it driveable?

[Stu Olson]

Who ported the steering box?

[BamBam]

Basic driving is marginal. When you are cruising down the street everything feels ok. when you have to turn especially at low speeds (low speeds require faster turning) then the steering feels very heavy and slow. I have not had it in the heavy rocks yet but have had it out and there is turning power but not the easy kind you would expect with a assist system. I was expecting to have normal steering with just more juice when I needed it. I was not told nor did I expect to come away with a slow reacting system.

Most of what I have read about ram assist is that your steering might even feel lighter and faster not slower and heavy. I was really looking forward to the one finger easy steer at no load.

I am trying to cover all my bases before I take it back in on Teusday to get it set right. With all of the good responses I am getting I now know that I should expect a normal steering system not a slow sluggish one. who knows maybe there is a bad component in my system?

I will post up what I find out next week.

In response to your PS system, If you get air into your system it will perform like dogmeat. It is important to remember that you need to let your fluid set overnight to let the aireated fluid to release its air bubbles. Then you need to bleed your system on level ground to get the air bubbles out of the places in your system that will trap air. Do you know how to do this the best way? If not I can PM you with an easy way. (I learned the hard way when putting in my hydroboost)

[BamBam]

BenchWorks in Scottsdale ported my box. I guess it could have a flow problem. Stu, Call me if your not too busy...

Russell

[xFallen]

Basic driving is marginal. When you are cruising down the street everything feels ok. when you have to turn especially at low speeds (low speeds require faster turning) then the steering feels very heavy and slow. I have not had it in the heavy rocks yet but have had it out and there is turning power but not the easy kind you would expect with a assist system. I was expecting to have normal steering with just more juice when I needed it. I was not told nor did I expect to come away with a slow reacting system.

Most of what I have read about ram assist is that your steering might even feel lighter and faster not slower and heavy. I was really looking forward to the one finger easy steer at no load.

I am trying to cover all my bases before I take it back in on Teusday to get it set right. With all of the good responses I am getting I now know that I should expect a normal steering system not a slow sluggish one. who knows maybe there is a bad component in my system?

I will post up what I find out next week.

In response to your PS system, If you get air into your system it will perform like dogmeat. It is important to remember that you need to let your fluid set overnight to let the aireated fluid to release its air bubbles. Then you need to bleed your system on level ground to get the air bubbles out of the places in your system that will trap air. Do you know how to do this the best way? If not I can PM you with an easy way. (I learned the hard way when putting in my hydroboost)

It usually only takes about 30 minutes after cavitation has occured, I have found.

What I think you have is a pump that is not matched to you ram. You could try a smaller pulley. That will improve low engine speed performance. Short of that you will need either a bigger pump or a smaller ram conventional wisdom claims 8x1.5 to be about max for a stockish pump and streetable response.


Barry

[Stu Olson]

Just got back to the thread this AM.....Russell, give me a call (cell) later today when you get a chance.

[BamBam]

Rock Ram is fixed :D It was the gear box all along. The ports were to small and that was causing a flow issue. It is all fixed now and works great. Makes a huge difference when going through the rocks.....

[xFallen]

Rock Ram is fixed :D It was the gear box all along. The ports were to small and that was causing a flow issue. It is all fixed now and works great. Makes a huge difference when going through the rocks.....

Glad you got it fixed.

What size was used in the original port job, and what size do you have now?

I am pretty sure mine sucks air somewhere under some situations, but I have not found it.


Barry

[rvisokey]

Rock Ram is fixed :D It was the gear box all along. The ports were to small and that was causing a flow issue. It is all fixed now and works great. Makes a huge difference when going through the rocks.....

Did you also get the "thump...thump" noise fixed when you turned?

[BamBam]

Originally the ports from the gear box were supposed to be #6 AN fittings and ended up being some strange reducer style fittings (#6 on one side and less than a #4 on the other?)

If you are getting air in your system I would check all the lines really close and replace what looks suspect. It is really hard to track down a small leak.

The noise I was hearing when turning sometimes was my lower ball joints. I put a wrench to them and most of the noise went away.

When everything is working right the rock ram is awesome. It really helps in the rocks, it lets you pick lines that help keep your diffs from dragging...:D