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1BLKJP
11-17-2006, 04:44 PM
I was over on Pirate today just reading some stuff and came across this thread. I hadn't even realized about Richard Pombo failing to be re-elected. As it's put in this thread that is going to pretty much mean for us that the Enangered Species act will never receive the much needed facelift that he was working for.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=525759

SavageSun4x4
11-17-2006, 05:41 PM
I was over on Pirate today just reading some stuff and came across this thread. I hadn't even realized about Richard Pombo failing to be re-elected. As it's put in this thread that is going to pretty much mean for us that the Enangered Species act will never receive the much needed facelift that he was working for.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=525759
It goes beyond that. As the article sez, the save the earth crowd is celbrating in the streets. But they are crowded streets as the animal activists are there along with the Iranians and all the radical Muslims and the Brady Bunch for gun control not crime control, the ACLU, etc, etc. Its a big celebration!

They are coming after your guns, your Jeep, your kids and just about everything you knew will soon be gone or altered in a way you will not recognize it.

The DimOkrat party is held hostage by radicals and its far from the one I grew up with.

If you didn't study communist-socialist doctrine in school [I doubt anyone has since its not taught] you should bone up on it. Any writings by Karl Marx, Hitler, George Soros, Jesse Jackson etc.

Enjoy:D

RokNRich
11-17-2006, 07:45 PM
Maybe if Pombo had kept clean he would have been re elected:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Pombo

Pombo and his political action committee RICH PAC [10] are among a dozen leaders in the House of Representatives reportedly under investigation as part of the corruption and influence-peddling scandal centered around disgraced Washington lobbyist Jack Abramoff, and his policy issues including Indian gaming. Pombo has taken more money from Abramoff than any other member of Congress ($500,000). Fundraisers organized by Indian gaming interests and tied to the 2005 MLB All-Star Game are among those activities under scrutiny.[11]

On January 8, 2006, the Los Angeles Times alleged that Pombo helped one of Jack Abramoff's clients, the Mashpee Indians in Massachusetts, gain official recognition as a tribe. In return, Pombo received campaign contributions from both the tribe and Abramoff.[12]

In the 2006 cycle, Abramoff was one of the top donors to Pombo's political action committee.[13] Several of Pombo's top five donors are political influence brokers from Detroit, Michigan who mingled gambling with major league baseball when they hosted several $5,000 per person fundraisers for Pombo in their owners box at Comerica Park during the 2005 MLB All-Star Game. News reports indicated contributions from the two day fundraising event would go to RICH Political Action Committee; however, FEC reports filed by RICH PAC show only one such contribution and apparently contributions were diverted to some other entity making it difficult to track who attended and contributed.

Besides, several Dem's support an overhaul of the ESA and several of Pombo's ideas in the original draft were BS anyways.

Don, you never cease to amaze me with your sky is falling rhetoric. I fear your type much more than the left wing (after all, they are a bunch of pussies).

RokNRich
11-17-2006, 08:24 PM
Another thing to ponder as your getting all upset about this, the Republicans had control of the Senate, House, and the White House for the last 6 years. You'd of thunk that with a such a strong decider and uniter in the white house, this would have been passed all ready. :confused:

DsrtJeeper
11-18-2006, 12:41 PM
You know what gets me? The fact that when a few of us disagree on the war and how it was started; all we received was the excuse that both sides of congress had to aproove or vote for such actions. Now that the Dems have the majority; that policy has changed? Give me a break.

If the Republicans hadn't filled the house with scandal; you all wouldn't be panicking.

Which weekend is the world ending? I might as well stop my donations to Blue Ribbon, IRA, etc.... right now, lay down and die. :rolleyes:

JamesT
11-21-2006, 09:10 AM
Don, you never cease to amaze me with your sky is falling rhetoric. I fear your type much more than the left wing (after all, they are a bunch of pussies).

You ought to fear your own type and your kids ought to fear your type:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20061120/D8LGK3D00.html

You say you don't believe in the war? You might not have a choice if it is up to your people.

RokNRich
11-21-2006, 09:27 AM
LOL, my people.

The article you posted is about reinstating the draft. I'm not sure what that has to do with reform of the Endangered Species Act (which, by the way, I support the reform and am pissed because this do nothing congress and white house has failed to get it done). It's not even on topic, and Rangel has been calling for a draft since '03, and it's been voted down every time.

It seems like you are just taking a cheap shot at me, thanks for the laugh. Next time try something more a little creative, like the war on Christmas !

:)

JamesT
11-21-2006, 10:11 AM
It's not even on topic, ...

The Topic:
Disturbing result from last weeks elections....
Read it.
This is very disturbing. I would hate to have your type out their fighting in a place where they didn't think they belong. Talk about another Vietnam. Replay the 60's and you will notice that the Dems are trying to repeat their ways with regards to this. Yes, the Dems are the ones that got us involved in Vietnam to save the French. The Republicans got us out.


... and Rangel has been calling for a draft since '03, and it's been voted down every time.

and now that "your people" are in power it might have legs. Be affraid, very affraid.

SavageSun4x4
11-21-2006, 10:14 AM
You ought to fear your own type and your kids ought to fear your type:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20061120/D8LGK3D00.html

You say you don't believe in the war? You might not have a choice if it is up to your people.
The DRAFT:
Here is a mixed bag if ever there was one. I was drafted in the largest draft call in the history of our country. I was there for 2 years, most of it in Vietnam and then I got the hell out. And I can tell you I was a different, MUCH different student than I was before I got drafted, but that is another story.

I strongly believe in the draft and in fact universal government/military service, but I would not support it.

When I got drafted I got 3 hots, a cot and $76 a month. When I left the Army 2 years later I think I was up to $324 a month and that included combat pay. Today I would be knocking down right at $30k. For a lot of kids with nothing but a GED, $30k a year is not a bad living shortly after starting out.

I certainly think there is enough work to do and low level jobs that our Fed Govt could use all the help it could get.

Sadly, what would happen is what was originally a 2 year contribution to make our country better would become a a life long, cradle to grave work program loaded with benefits, retirement and just another black hole for taxpayers.

Of course this is not what Rangel is aiming at. He only wants a military draft and is hoping that a repeat of the civil unrest of the 60's-70's with Viet Nam would result. Of course he has to play the "race card": "has said the all-volunteer military disproportionately puts the burden of war on minorities and lower-income families."

Of course what he doesn't say is where else can a black kid who dropped out of school and can barely read or write make $30k a year and maybe a chance to get an education and straighten out his life. But like most radical liberals whose only goal for the minorities is to keep them on the Federal Plantation of govt housing, feed them with food stamps and give them welfare for spending money and buy a vote along with it. 21st century slavery, right here in the US.

RokNRich
11-21-2006, 10:52 AM
and now that "your people" are in power it might have legs. Be affraid, very affraid.

OK. I still think that we have more to fear from the people who put us in Iraq, for now on known as "your people" than "my people", but whatever. I guess "my people" are the people who are smart enough to know that Saddam didn't attack us on 9/11. My people must also be the active duty and veterans that are getting shafted by this administrations policies. Hopefully "my people", the moderate democrats (Jim Webb, Jon Tester) will not bow to pressure from the extremist in the Democratic party. BTW James, which branch were you in ?

I actually agree with what Don wrote in regards to the draft, man that doesn't happen too often, but there you have it, the whole post even. :cool: Good post Don.

RokNRich
11-21-2006, 11:09 AM
Check this out, it's John Testers (DEMOCRAT) stand on the issues:
http://www.testerforsenate.com/issues

Yeah, be afraid.

RokNRich
11-21-2006, 11:25 AM
The Topic:
Disturbing result from last weeks elections....
Read it.


The topic: Disturbing result from last weeks elections....

Rangel proposed a draft in 2003.
Rangel was not up for re election in 2006.

Your post was a red herring. :rolleyes:

RokNRich
11-21-2006, 11:43 AM
Back to the topic at hand.

Since Pombo lost his re election bid, the chance of the ESA being reformed doesn't look so good. He was driving the bill, there was some bipartisan support for the bill, my reading suggest that one of the biggest concerns with getting it passed was the part of the bill which stated that if you lost some use of your land due to an ESA ruling, the government would have to compensate you for this loss. I'm not so sure I agree with this either, but that is what was holding the bill up.

My original reply to this thread was to bash Pombo for being dirty. He lost the election due to being linked with Abramoff and a couple of other scandals. So, I see a couple points of discusiion from this (or you could just throw out red herrings)

Is it worth it to our country to have a corrupt politician, even though he supports many of the things that you support ?

How do we prevent all the work that has gone into the ESA reform bill not to be lost, even though Pombo is out ? It has some measure of bipartisan support and had Pombo been willing to make some compromises it may have passed, as a matter of fact, I think they are trying to get it on the floor before the evil Dems take over in January.

Discuss

azrubyman
11-21-2006, 04:32 PM
The government should absolutely have to compensate a citizen if one the government laws or worse "interpretations" cause that citizen to loose use of or value to their property.
Regarding the draft....what a shame that any American would ever fall for that ruse again.
I'm against the draft, the registration law, compulsory military training or any other form of compulsory government service.
You wanna see this nation ripped apart at the seams and a full scale rebellion/constitutional crisis. Re-instate another draft.
I can not fathom this kind of debate even coming up now-a-days.
:mad:
Ken

RokNRich
11-21-2006, 07:13 PM
The government should absolutely have to compensate a citizen if one the government laws or worse "interpretations" cause that citizen to loose use of or value to their property.
Regarding the draft....what a shame that any American would ever fall for that ruse again.
I'm against the draft, the registration law, compulsory military training or any other form of compulsory government service.
You wanna see this nation ripped apart at the seams and a full scale rebellion/constitutional crisis. Re-instate another draft.
I can not fathom this kind of debate even coming up now-a-days.
:mad:
Ken

Ken, the little bit of reading I've done about this in regards to the ESA is slightly discomforting in regards to compensation. I think the law will have compensation based upon future use as well as current use in regards to compensation. IMO (but feel free to educate me), this will have some negative results.

Imagine you have a fishing lodge and 100 acres near some endangered species. You have no plans to develop it further, but some slick talking lawyer calls you one day and tells you that you have hit the jackpot, all you got to do is say you are going to develop the property and then wait in line behind everyone else who is suing the government, talk about a cluster. I can see an alt-fuels type frenzy going on. Should this guy get rich ? No, I say. On the other hand, lets say the government says you can no longer take your customers fishing due to the endangered species, in this case compensations should be given, agreed ? The problem is getting the law written so that the system works correctly. The only information I could find allows for the guy to go the "development" route. Suddenly everyone will be developers" in my scenario. There will be "developers" buying up land for the sole purpose of suing the government over "future" value, etc.

I support private property rights actually. As a matter of fact I live in a county island amongst Gilbert residents who have been trying to annex us for the last year. Still haven't annexed.

Seriously, if anyone has more info on this as it regards to the ESA revisions proposed, please share. I had limited luck try to research this with google and limited time.

Oh yeah, Ken, I don't suupport a draft either because of the practicalities of it. Do I think everyone should serve in one way or the other, hell yes.

Thanks for sharing

SavageSun4x4
11-21-2006, 07:27 PM
1) The government should absolutely have to compensate a citizen if one the government laws or worse "interpretations" cause that citizen to loose use of or value to their property.

2)Regarding the draft....what a shame that any American would ever fall for that ruse again.
I'm against the draft, the registration law, compulsory military training or any other form of compulsory government service.
You wanna see this nation ripped apart at the seams and a full scale rebellion/constitutional crisis. Re-instate another draft.


*1) Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That said, certainly the govt should compensate, but then, questions becomes how much.

Lets examine the current land deal that is going on around Luke AFB. The govt has offered to LEASE the land to provide a buffer zone around certain areas of the base for noise abatement.

Some of the land owners said no, we will only sell the land not lease it.

Others say the govt has too many restrictions on the land [no grain crops, no dust producing crops, seemed fair to me when I read it. Purpose is to prevent aircraft from ingesting dust, corn etc.].

The govt is offering millions just to lease the land and still allow the owners limited use of the land.

Ramifications: Failure to obtain the lease on the land requested the base will indeed close.

The way I see it: There are some GREEDY land owners who are trying to rip off the taxpayer.

*2) Tag line on the Prudential Insurance TV commercials: "own a piece of the rock".

Ken said:
"You wanna see this nation ripped apart at the seams and a full scale rebellion/constitutional crisis. Re-instate another draft."

Ken, I will bet you are right and that is the bad news. My country called and all I did was rebel and protest. Wonder if that guy owns a piece of he rock?

In order to own a piece of the rock somehow or some way you need to hold something higher than yourself, something MUST be important than you. So how can one own a piece of the rock. Be draft eligible and sign up for the draft [note I did not say you had to be drafted], and pay taxes.

Why the secular progressive movement in the US? Let me put it this way. What is wrong with basing our society on the Christian standards and the Bible. Now before you go off half ****ed with a bunch of gibberish about why you don't believe in God or whatever, yada, yada, yada. We MUST based our system of govt and its LAWS on something...AGREED?

Now think about it someone has to lay down the standards, ethics and morals...thou shall not kill etc. If you want to do it sans Christian foundation, what is your foundation, fill in here> [ ]. Ohh and by the way, no MATTER what you fill in, I got one piece of bad news for you, YOU my friend are not in charge...DUH!

OK, who is, Bush, Der Klinton, Gore, Newt Gingrich, Hitler, Ivan the Terrible first Czar of Russia, etc, etc? What happens when people make the rules? We burn JEWS, sacrifice virgins because the ruler of the Aztecs thought it would be a good idea.

I recommend further reading about communism which has as a its foundation, the lack of a GOD or a belief in a GOD. However under the communist-socialist doctrine, everyone, whether or not they want to, owns a piece of the rock. I would hope that you would think that a bit extreme. If so then so would a society that no one owns a piece of the rock, a secular society where "I" am the most important and I owe my country-govt nothing, neither to defend it nor to pay taxes to it if I can beat it. Looks like we might have come full circle on this.

Anyone here get drafted beside me? I am not talking the lottery crap. Where we made our blunder was in allowing exemptions. Had I made better grades I would have had one, but not for ole Don to worry, I had one from WORK [OK it was in this case legit, PM me if you want to know what I did]. And if that was not enough, I was a true "surviving son" which also exempted me.

Fact is we exempted almost anyone who could fog a mirror. My father got a call from a local draft board member who asked him if his son needed any HELP on getting a deferment. Of course his answer was no, nor did I ever apply for my work related deferment...If they got me, they got me, in spite of my feelings about Vietnam and my fathers feelings on it [Dad had gone to Vietnam also]

In spite of sometimes feelings about Vietnam, Iraq, Korea etc, I OWN a piece of the rock they call America, I spilled blood for it and as we vets say...All gave some, some gave all.

If its war your talking about, the chances of one going and seeing combat are slim and NONE. NOT one single guy that got drafted that fateful day when we all met at the Post Office went to Vietnam...To include the guys that went in the Marines. ONLY me. I knew all of these guys since I was from a small town.

Under war time operations the combat to support ratio is about 20:1. For every guy up front fighting its takes 20 to see to he has "beans and bullets"

Yes I believe in universal govt-military service and that means every swinging Richard and every bouncing Betty. But as I said earlier, I can no longer support it.

Finally: As we race towards a secular progressive society and leave Christian doctrine in the dust, be careful, very careful how you cast your vote because the "man" making the rules might not agree with your previously self centered viewpoint.

* I use Ken's post because of what he said and not that Ken said it. I use the word "you" and or other inferences not towards Ken, but rather to You the readers and non-readers as a group. Ken, you do not need to reply in order to justify your post, it was a good post and useful for my purposes, thank you.

azrubyman
11-21-2006, 09:24 PM
*1) Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That said, certainly the govt should compensate, but then, questions becomes how much.

Lets examine the current land deal that is going on around Luke AFB. The govt has offered to LEASE the land to provide a buffer zone around certain areas of the base for noise abatement.

Some of the land owners said no, we will only sell the land not lease it.

Others say the govt has too many restrictions on the land [no grain crops, no dust producing crops, seemed fair to me when I read it. Purpose is to prevent aircraft from ingesting dust, corn etc.].

The govt is offering millions just to lease the land and still allow the owners limited use of the land.

Ramifications: Failure to obtain the lease on the land requested the base will indeed close.

The way I see it: There are some GREEDY land owners who are trying to rip off the taxpayer.

*2) Tag line on the Prudential Insurance TV commercials: "own a piece of the rock".

Ken said:
"You wanna see this nation ripped apart at the seams and a full scale rebellion/constitutional crisis. Re-instate another draft."

Ken, I will bet you are right and that is the bad news. My country called and all I did was rebel and protest. Wonder if that guy owns a piece of he rock?

In order to own a piece of the rock somehow or some way you need to hold something higher than yourself, something MUST be important than you. So how can one own a piece of the rock. Be draft eligible and sign up for the draft [note I did not say you had to be drafted], and pay taxes.

Why the secular progressive movement in the US? Let me put it this way. What is wrong with basing our society on the Christian standards and the Bible. Now before you go off half ****ed with a bunch of gibberish about why you don't believe in God or whatever, yada, yada, yada. We MUST based our system of govt and its LAWS on something...AGREED?

Now think about it someone has to lay down the standards, ethics and morals...thou shall not kill etc. If you want to do it sans Christian foundation, what is your foundation, fill in here> [ ]. Ohh and by the way, no MATTER what you fill in, I got one piece of bad news for you, YOU my friend are not in charge...DUH!

OK, who is, Bush, Der Klinton, Gore, Newt Gingrich, Hitler, Ivan the Terrible first Czar of Russia, etc, etc? What happens when people make the rules? We burn JEWS, sacrifice virgins because the ruler of the Aztecs thought it would be a good idea.

I recommend further reading about communism which has as a its foundation, the lack of a GOD or a belief in a GOD. However under the communist-socialist doctrine, everyone, whether or not they want to, owns a piece of the rock. I would hope that you would think that a bit extreme. If so then so would a society that no one owns a piece of the rock, a secular society where "I" am the most important and I owe my country-govt nothing, neither to defend it nor to pay taxes to it if I can beat it. Looks like we might have come full circle on this.

Anyone here get drafted beside me? I am not talking the lottery crap. Where we made our blunder was in allowing exemptions. Had I made better grades I would have had one, but not for ole Don to worry, I had one from WORK [OK it was in this case legit, PM me if you want to know what I did]. And if that was not enough, I was a true "surviving son" which also exempted me.

Fact is we exempted almost anyone who could fog a mirror. My father got a call from a local draft board member who asked him if his son needed any HELP on getting a deferment. Of course his answer was no, nor did I ever apply for my work related deferment...If they got me, they got me, in spite of my feelings about Vietnam and my fathers feelings on it [Dad had gone to Vietnam also]

In spite of sometimes feelings about Vietnam, Iraq, Korea etc, I OWN a piece of the rock they call America, I spilled blood for it and as we vets say...All gave some, some gave all.

If its war your talking about, the chances of one going and seeing combat are slim and NONE. NOT one single guy that got drafted that fateful day when we all met at the Post Office went to Vietnam...To include the guys that went in the Marines. ONLY me. I knew all of these guys since I was from a small town.

Under war time operations the combat to support ratio is about 20:1. For every guy up front fighting its takes 20 to see to he has "beans and bullets"

Yes I believe in universal govt-military service and that means every swinging Richard and every bouncing Betty. But as I said earlier, I can no longer support it.

Finally: As we race towards a secular progressive society and leave Christian doctrine in the dust, be careful, very careful how you cast your vote because the "man" making the rules might not agree with your previously self centered viewpoint.

* I use Ken's post because of what he said and not that Ken said it. I use the word "you" and or other inferences not towards Ken, but rather to You the readers and non-readers as a group. Ken, you do not need to reply in order to justify your post, it was a good post and useful for my purposes, thank you.

Don,
Regarding Luke AFB and the surrounding land. If the landowners don't want to lease, it should absolutely be their right as a property owner. If the government wants it that bad, they will buy it. Price is easy....prevailing market price for that area. It ain't rocket science. Seems like a common theme around this club anymore is "pay to play". Well here is a good example for the government to pay to play. Yes, I know its tax dollars. What matters is honoring property rights.
And regarding a reply to justify my post? I'm not about to justify it to anyone. What I wrote I absolutely believe and believe in.
Ken

azrubyman
11-21-2006, 11:12 PM
Ken, the little bit of reading I've done about this in regards to the ESA is slightly discomforting in regards to compensation. I think the law will have compensation based upon future use as well as current use in regards to compensation. IMO (but feel free to educate me), this will have some negative results.

Imagine you have a fishing lodge and 100 acres near some endangered species. You have no plans to develop it further, but some slick talking lawyer calls you one day and tells you that you have hit the jackpot, all you got to do is say you are going to develop the property and then wait in line behind everyone else who is suing the government, talk about a cluster. I can see an alt-fuels type frenzy going on. Should this guy get rich ? No, I say. On the other hand, lets say the government says you can no longer take your customers fishing due to the endangered species, in this case compensations should be given, agreed ? The problem is getting the law written so that the system works correctly. The only information I could find allows for the guy to go the "development" route. Suddenly everyone will be developers" in my scenario. There will be "developers" buying up land for the sole purpose of suing the government over "future" value, etc.

I support private property rights actually. As a matter of fact I live in a county island amongst Gilbert residents who have been trying to annex us for the last year. Still haven't annexed.

Seriously, if anyone has more info on this as it regards to the ESA revisions proposed, please share. I had limited luck try to research this with google and limited time.

Oh yeah, Ken, I don't suupport a draft either because of the practicalities of it. Do I think everyone should serve in one way or the other, hell yes.

Thanks for sharing

Rich,
Take the scenario you mention, only I do want to develop it further. Say I have a dream of someday building some cabins myself over looking Lake La Sewer and then I can quit the assembly line work at Ford and be a small business man. Can't do it right away...but as I scrape together bucks over the years, I'll build my dream. that is my vision. But a revenuer or some other such government type shows up one day and says "based on some critter survey our SC brethren did for us 20 years ago, we have determined your property makes prime nesting habitat for the Left Winged Small Breasted Hillary. Here is your 20 dollars per acre going rate today."
If you think I only deserve the 20 bucks per acre and no compensation for the stealing of my dream...then OK. But I disagree with you. There is plenty of legal precedent for compensation based on projected future earnings. (happens every day in accident law).


I understand yours and others desire to have everyone participate in civic duty. I really do. I enlisted in the army, served with honor and integrity and am proud of it. No foreign war for me, but I signed up and took my chances and did my duty none the less. I just think it and other service should be voluntary and not mandated or conscripted government servitude. There is no historical indicator of our government agencies being anything but unfair and corrupt in such matters.

Ken

My1stJeep
11-22-2006, 09:42 AM
...like the war on Christmas !

:)

Funny you should mention this. The PC left wing has been waging this for years and have pretty much so won, as most people at work can no longer say Merry Christmas without getting in trouble. :eek: Just another fine example on how we have to change for the world and continue to lose our identity. :mad:

As for this topic, I am sure their are Dems that want it reformed, most of them not in a way that will help OHV. With the war going on over seas I am not surprised that the ESA was not overhauled. There are a few things going on.

By the way, Dem or Rep in Pretty much all Washington are corrupt, so stop playing that card it fits both sides equally.

1BLKJP
12-01-2006, 03:50 PM
Wow, out of town all week and just noticed that this created a little controversy after I put it up. I will say that I am Republican, but I did not put this here to push my political views. I do realize why Pombo got voted out, however the fact still remains that the ESA needs to be re-done. I got this tasty little email from the Center for Biological Diversity (Signed up on their site to get emails just like this). These guys have the money and the time put put their efforts into things like this. This is something we are definitely going to want to keep our eyes on this next year to make sure we can have a voice in the process as well. They can show us 100 reasons why the current ESA has worked. However they don't mention the 1000 reasons why it doesn't.

----------------------------------------

Dear Jack,

When Congress returns for the 2007 session, anti-environment forces will once again rally and try to gut the Endangered Species Act. They claim the Act has failed, but they're wrong. We need your help to get the truth out, and you can double your gift in the process.

Two of the Center for Biological Diversity's most generous donors have joined forces to create a $200,000 challenge grant in support of our "ESA Works!" campaign to defend the Act. It's a dollar-for-dollar match, so your gift will have double the impact.

The truth is, many species once on the road to extinction are now recovering thanks to protections afforded by the Endangered Species Act. Among them are the Bald Eagle, Gray Whale, Grizzly Bear and Green Sea Turtle. Want more examples? Check out our special report, "The Road to Recovery: 100 Success Stories for Endangered Species Day 2006," at http://www.esasuccess.org.

From here, we'll build on the success of the Endangered Species Act and advocate for improved funding and implementation. And we'll build momentum for a new congress and new administration in 2008. But we need your help now!

Please make your year-end gift to the Center – which will be doubled by the challenge grant – by December 31.

The Endangered Species Act is a proven lifesaver for plants and animals that can't defend themselves. Help us make sure the American people know the truth so that together, we can save the Act and keep wildlife protections strong. Click here to donate now.

Sincerely,

Michael Finkelstein
Executive Director

danno
12-01-2006, 04:52 PM
"It is the part of a wise man to keep himself today for tomorrow, and not to venture all his eggs in one basket." -- Quote of Sancho Panza from the 1712 translation of Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra Don Quixote de la Mancha

Buy various pieces of land as investments. In different geographic locations if you can. The laws as they stand today have some funny stipulations about such things as mineral rights and preserving national security. If you happen to have your river lodge on top of a rich uranium deposit... You will not be fishing long.

Of course there are valid reasons to keep all of your eggs in one basket. Here are some of my favorites:

-You have no eggs.

-You only have one egg.

-You only have one arm.

-Because you want to take a picture of all your eggs in one pretty basket.

-It's a trash basket -- all the eggs belong in the trash because they are already broken or spoiled.

-Last time you tried multiple baskets you couldn't carry them all and wound up dropping some.

-The basket is permanently glued to the table, so what could possibly happen?

-Peer pressure. (If they all fit in one basket, and youre really careful, then go ahead, save time, put them in one basket. No one will stop you. Don't be afraid, I do it too.')

-You only have one basket because...

......having only one basket was good enough for your ancestors, so it's good enough for you.

......you never purchase a new basket because...

...............you keep forgetting to go to the store.

...............you are too frugal to purchase another basket.

-You are going to make scrambled eggs anyway.

-When Aunt Edna comes in with the goats and you want to keep the eggs from the goats (not to mention Aunt Edna), it is easier to hide one basket than several.

-It's in your chickens' labor union contract that you keep all eggs in one basket.

-You want to hold the basket in one arm and use your other arm for defense.

-They're golden eggs, which means they're extremely valuable. (Lloyds insures them.) The golden eggs are in the safe, so they can't be split between two baskets. Besides, you can't afford more golden eggs even if you had another safe (and a basket strong enough to carry it).

and my personal favorite...

-You don't have any good reason, but you want to keep all your eggs in one basket.

BobLJ
01-05-2007, 07:25 AM
Another thing to ponder as your getting all upset about this, the Republicans had control of the Senate, House, and the White House for the last 6 years. You'd of thunk that with a such a strong decider and uniter in the white house, this would have been passed all ready. :confused:

Rock en rich. You read too much NY unTimes. Uniting when the false info going out all day long 24/7 is against you, kind of tough when you don't get to state your case.
Fact: When I was in Iraq, the first time, I saw lots of WMD. Didn't take any pictures since it was everywhere and thought would be cataloged and recorded. It was even in Kuwait. I got a major rash from walking around some of it before my Kuwait counterpart said we best get the camel the hell away from that stuff and fast. Dumb me couldn't read the danger signs.
Fact: 911 Sadam (May he rest in hell) supported terrorist world wide with money, training facilities and logistics. Paid Palestinians suicide bombers families $25k as a payoff for good deeds.
Fact: Moderate and under the table Arab countries support US in Iraq war even if you don't believe it. (12 years special ops experience in that region). Clinton administration cut most of our funding in that region for Intel activities. Didn?t have any assets and some Clinton appointee gave up a bunch of the names and they disapered.
Fact: Kobar Towers, Cole, Kenya and Tanzanian embassy bombings, Somalia etc were all supported by Iraq in various forms; money, facilities and political support that the NY Times loved to also support.
Fact: Sadam's forces were constantly firing missiles at coalition forces aircraft in no fly zones we were enforcing.
Fact: Under the table bribes to France, Germany and Russia leadership paid with our donations and tax dollars. Food for dollars being one of those but the NY Times beat up Bush instead of addressing the issue of bribes to our "pure friends".
Fact: Clinton administration ignored warnings and passed the buck. Cut military by almost 2/3rds. Reason why not more troops to Iraq? There aren't any left. Bush and Rummy made some real dumb early on blunders: one of those was replacing the AF retired Gen with the clueless Brenner. Set us back about 3 years and 1000 more of our fine men and women had to die. We won the war but are having our butts handed to us on keeping the peace. More SF would help and less driving around in HUMMERS (targets). Give me a battalion or two of SF, Seals and Iraqi Special Forces to secure Baghdad and get out of the way. I fought the Iraqis and they are good soldiers lets get them in the fight for their country and get it going and lets go home.
Fact: Dems, on the average, don't have a clew. The rhetoric is worse than what I saw during Vietnam. Jane resides in the House and Senate and that?s a fact. Just think the US almost voted in Kerry who was a real North Vietnam supporter against our troops and national interest. Most people listen to the wrong message, we were attacked, this is not a political issue it is a survival issue for us as a country. Kerry was not a hero he was the worst sort of coward and still is.
Fact: I'm getting old and don't like it one bit. Watching the demise of ones country for the second time doesn't sit well. And having listened to young folks that are buying in to the same false information the Dems are feeding you is again so abhorrent I just try to ignore it like I did the last time. We are an honorable country, for the most part, but the robots are starting to get on my nerves. Propaganda works, just ask the major networks and especially the NY Times: if you say a falsehood enough times it becomes reality. SAD
Fact: We won the war now lets win the peace.
Bob

SavageSun4x4
01-05-2007, 08:57 AM
Rock en rich. You read too much NY unTimes. Uniting when the false info going out all day long 24/7 is against you, kind of tough when you don't get to state your case.
Fact: When I was in Iraq, the first time, I saw lots of WMD. Didn't take any pictures since it was everywhere and thought would be cataloged and recorded. It was even in Kuwait. I got a major rash from walking around some of it before my Kuwait counterpart said we best get the camel the hell away from that stuff and fast. Dumb me couldn't read the danger signs.
Fact: 911 Sadam (May he rest in hell) supported terrorist world wide with money, training facilities and logistics. Paid Palestinians suicide bombers families $25k as a payoff for good deeds.
Fact: Moderate and under the table Arab countries support US in Iraq war even if you don't believe it. (12 years special ops experience in that region). Clinton administration cut most of our funding in that region for Intel activities. Didn?t have any assets and some Clinton appointee gave up a bunch of the names and they disapered.
Fact: Kobar Towers, Cole, Kenya and Tanzanian embassy bombings, Somalia etc were all supported by Iraq in various forms; money, facilities and political support that the NY Times loved to also support.
Fact: Sadam's forces were constantly firing missiles at coalition forces aircraft in no fly zones we were enforcing.
Fact: Under the table bribes to France, Germany and Russia leadership paid with our donations and tax dollars. Food for dollars being one of those but the NY Times beat up Bush instead of addressing the issue of bribes to our "pure friends".
Fact: Clinton administration ignored warnings and passed the buck. Cut military by almost 2/3rds. Reason why not more troops to Iraq? There aren't any left. Bush and Rummy made some real dumb early on blunders: one of those was replacing the AF retired Gen with the clueless Brenner. Set us back about 3 years and 1000 more of our fine men and women had to die. We won the war but are having our butts handed to us on keeping the peace. More SF would help and less driving around in HUMMERS (targets). Give me a battalion or two of SF, Seals and Iraqi Special Forces to secure Baghdad and get out of the way. I fought the Iraqis and they are good soldiers lets get them in the fight for their country and get it going and lets go home.
Fact: Dems, on the average, don't have a clew. The rhetoric is worse than what I saw during Vietnam. Jane resides in the House and Senate and that?s a fact. Just think the US almost voted in Kerry who was a real North Vietnam supporter against our troops and national interest. Most people listen to the wrong message, we were attacked, this is not a political issue it is a survival issue for us as a country. Kerry was not a hero he was the worst sort of coward and still is.
Fact: I'm getting old and don't like it one bit. Watching the demise of ones country for the second time doesn't sit well. And having listened to young folks that are buying in to the same false information the Dems are feeding you is again so abhorrent I just try to ignore it like I did the last time. We are an honorable country, for the most part, but the robots are starting to get on my nerves. Propaganda works, just ask the major networks and especially the NY Times: if you say a falsehood enough times it becomes reality. SAD
Fact: We won the war now lets win the peace.
Bob

Bob, FACT IS...you are right:) :)

RokNRich
01-05-2007, 11:50 AM
Bob - Got any sources to support your "facts" ?

Fact-This administration and the Republican controlled congress have taken our country into a very dark time, it's no one's fault except their own.

Fact-Democrats aren't much better, just the only other viable choice.

Fact-I'm not so young, spent some time in the gulf as well, and am entitled to my opinion just as you are yours.

Fact- This thread is about how the reform of the ESA is now in jeopardy because Pombo didn't get re-elected. I'm not going to argue about whether Saddam flew planes into the WTC's in this thread with you. Let's try to keep this on topic, ok ?

Cheers.

BobLJ
01-05-2007, 01:34 PM
Bob - Got any sources to support your "facts" ?

Fact-This administration and the Republican controlled congress have taken our country into a very dark time, it's no one's fault except their own.

Fact-Democrats aren't much better, just the only other viable choice.

Fact-I'm not so young, spent some time in the gulf as well, and am entitled to my opinion just as you are yours.

Fact- This thread is about how the reform of the ESA is now in jeopardy because Pombo didn't get re-elected. I'm not going to argue about whether Saddam flew planes into the WTC's in this thread with you. Let's try to keep this on topic, ok ?

Cheers.

Republicans did not do it. Pres was in an elementary classroom when the 911 happened listening to a children’s story (remember Michael More). It’s the terrorists not the republicans!
Yes, all from open sources, i.e., news accounts mostly that anyone can read if they wanted to dig a bit since it is not going to get much press from the major news media. The bombings of the embassies along with Sadam’s participation in support was noted in several news services usually the wire services. Some of the details is from documents (unclass) that was reported in the news media but not wide spread coverage. Nothing stated is from what I think but from what was reported or actually seen by me eyes on target especial WMD's.
Being in the Gulf doesn't mean allot. Depends on what your experiences were, where you were and at what level of responsibility. What was known and what the decisions were and the effects.
Just responded to the words on the thread. I probably don't have a strong input for the ESA.
Never inferred nor believe Sadam had anything to do with flying the planes into the tower only that he supported terrorists world wide and had training facilities for the folks that did. This is about terrorists, doesn't seem to be understood by many. Bush and the Republicans didn't do it.
Bob