gears!

[odyssey731]

im going to be getting some gears here in the near future because i just ungraded tire size. i found a good deal on some yukon gears, a front and rear package for 360$$$. are yukon gears good? and is that a good deal. if anyone has any other suggestions im looking for front and rear 4.56 or 4.88's for a 98 tj with a d44 rear and a stock d30 front. thanks fellas

corey.

[4 Wheelers Supply]

Are these master install kits with bearings or just install kits? Let me know?:)

[Antman]

4Wheelers Supply did my 4:88's and lockers years ago and have had no problems.:D

[xFallen]

im going to be getting some gears here in the near future because i just ungraded tire size. i found a good deal on some yukon gears, a front and rear package for 360$$$. are yukon gears good? and is that a good deal. if anyone has any other suggestions im looking for front and rear 4.56 or 4.88's for a 98 tj with a d44 rear and a stock d30 front. thanks fellas

corey.

The Yukon gear set in my rear Dana 44 (33 spline axle) has held up, but I am on set number 3 for the front 30 spline Dana 30 in less than 8 months. That is going out almost every weekend for at least one day, and usually running 3-4 trails of the 4.0 and up variety. Seems like most people go out maybe once every couple of months so factor that in I guess. The previous gears were all Yukon, this set is not (I got them from Simon at 4WS). I also got these ones cryo treated. Who knows if that was a good idea or not but I doubt it will be harmful.

I have concluded the following for my rig:
37" tires + locker + D30 + frequent 4.0 and up trails = frequent broken r&p

That will be even worse if you do not have 4:1 in the xfer case since there will be more shock loading on the gears which appears to be the primary cause of failure based on examining parts after they have broken. I have never tried to claim warranty on them because I figure they are seeing duty above and beyond for the most part. If I was running 33s and they were failing that frequently it'd be a different story.

The D30 r&p is on the small side already at a measely 7.2" diameter. The 4.88 has a small pinion (8 teeth) and that makes it even weaker. They are not going to fall out as soon as they see your 36" tire like some people seem to want you to believe. The poor little D30 in my rig gets the snot wheeled out of it on 37s. With 4.88 gearing the r&p is without a doubt the weak link. I worry about it when I wheel, but I wheel anyway and don't seem to break down very often.

If you have an automatic I would suggest you go with higher gears (4.56 at 9 teeth or 4.10 at 10 teeth) to make the combination stronger, and if you do not already have 4:1, focus on getting that. If you have a manual transmission then you may have to live with weaker gears in order to maintain a better crawl ratio.

If streetability is your primary concern then do whatever you want (4.88 will be fine) but I'd recommend buying a car for that.


Barry

[DsrtJeeper]

The Yukon gear set in my rear Dana 44 (33 spline axle) has held up, but I am on set number 3 for the front 30 spline Dana 30 in less than 8 months. That is going out almost every weekend for at least one day, and usually running 3-4 trails of the 4.0 and up variety. Seems like most people go out maybe once every couple of months so factor that in I guess. The previous gears were all Yukon, this set is not (I got them from Simon at 4WS). I also got these ones cryo treated. Who knows if that was a good idea or not but I doubt it will be harmful.

I have concluded the following for my rig:
37" tires + locker + D30 + frequent 4.0 and up trails = frequent broken r&p

That will be even worse if you do not have 4:1 in the xfer case since there will be more shock loading on the gears which appears to be the primary cause of failure based on examining parts after they have broken. I have never tried to claim warranty on them because I figure they are seeing duty above and beyond for the most part. If I was running 33s and they were failing that frequently it'd be a different story.

The D30 r&p is on the small side already at a measely 7.2" diameter. The 4.88 has a small pinion (8 teeth) and that makes it even weaker. They are not going to fall out as soon as they see your 36" tire like some people seem to want you to believe. The poor little D30 in my rig gets the snot wheeled out of it on 37s. With 4.88 gearing the r&p is without a doubt the weak link. I worry about it when I wheel, but I wheel anyway and don't seem to break down very often.

If you have an automatic I would suggest you go with higher gears (4.56 at 9 teeth or 4.10 at 10 teeth) to make the combination stronger, and if you do not already have 4:1, focus on getting that. If you have a manual transmission then you may have to live with weaker gears in order to maintain a better crawl ratio.

If streetability is your primary concern then do whatever you want (4.88 will be fine) but I'd recommend buying a car for that.


Barry

Barry;
Something is definately wrong here. I wheeled like you for several years on the same 4:88 US Gear set and 37" tires with no such problems. I broke two front shafts and my carrier and the gears lived. The alloy shaft that failed, broke was so violently that it broke clean through in two spots! I never ran a 4:1 and wheeled the best I could with a 5-speed. That same Dana 30 is still going strong on a TJ in Tucson with 36" tires. I've never been on a run where a Dana 30 R&P even broke. I think the only two people that I know that have broken them are you and Rachel.

I'm not bragging, but I just can't figure this out. Who installed your first two sets?

[lilbluej]

i heard that anything from yukon was garbage.

is this true?

the guy that told me this seemed to know his stuff.

[xFallen]

i heard that anything from yukon was garbage.

is this true?

the guy that told me this seemed to know his stuff.

Apparently Yukon doesn't make anything. They buy whatever they can at the lowest price and repackage it for sale. When you buy their gears you may actually be getting Spcer one time and who knows the next.

The axles I have seen from Yukon seem to be consistently strange (not the brand "Strange Engineeering" , but rather oddball in nature). The D30 ones don't even look as nice as the Alloy USA I have on hand, and I know for fact first hand they do not stand up, or at least the three different instances I have used didn't...

I know some vendors here push Yukon. Fine. It's pretty hard to change my reality. Yukon: 3 broken axles in 5 months. Alloy USA: 0 broken axles in 8 months. Same rig, and probably worse trails.

I think they have had quality control issues in the past according to scuttlebutt. I think they will have them in the future because they seem to be less selective at least about axles as to manufacture of origin. Who knows.

The axles I have seen (clearly far from all they provide) are not engineered like Alloy USA and Superior. There is a lot of technology that goes into forming splines and where along the axles radii may appear and how they are actually formed. Both of the latter observe sound engineering practise in that regard. Yukon simply does not and it is obvious by comparing one of their shafts to the good ones if you know what to look at.

Some people have had good luck with their D60 rear shafts and even front D60 inners and outers. Others have not. Some have had good luck with their r&p sets. Others have not.

From my limited experience (D30 front shafts and D30 and D44 r&p) I would say their gears are probably okay and their D30 shafts are junk. One shaft (the third and last) broke on the first obstacle on the first trail of the day and it didn't even seem to be bound up. All who witnessed it commented to that effect. Never will I permanently install Yukon front shafts in my own vehicle even if they are free, and will likely never have rears either.

If you never wheel the harder trails I would say you will be fine with Yukon. If you want to have parts that will withstand some duress, Superior or Alloy USA will work far better. Spicer is probably best for gear sets but I bet the Yukon gears will be fine if properly set up since they may well actually be Spicer in some cases. I know the Yukon install kits I bought a year or more ago came with Timken bearings and good seals. Timken are arguably the best and most consistent in the world for this type of tapered bearing.

So, who knows. Maybe in a few months they will have the best D30 axles for some period of time because that's what they were able to buy in quanity for cheap.


Barry

[desertfabmotors]

There is nothing bad about yukon gears, installed many wit no issues and I have run them in the buggies with no issues.

Hey Eric, You wonder why Barry goes through bears in his D30. I is called 37" tires and hard core use.;)

[DsrtJeeper]

There is nothing bad about yukon gears, installed many wit no issues and I have run them in the buggies with no issues.

Hey Eric, You wonder why Barry goes through bears in his D30. I is called 37" tires and hard core use.;)

Read my post again Todd. I also ran 37's and wheeled hard. If you have any doubts; ask some of the members here who wheeled with me in my TJ. I had no mercy on that Jeep. Come on....a 5 speed and a stock 231 running Montrose? I drove it there and back home. The first front shaft I broke sent a shockwave through my 30 that unseated both balljoints on passenger side. The second shaft was a Superior which sheared in half in two spots, broke the carrier and driver's side carrier bearing! I drove the Jeep home from Payson not knowing the carrier was broke. Stu helped me repair it. If those gears were going to break; they should have after that, but I guess I just didn't wheel hard enough. :confused:

[Wind_Danzer]

im going to be getting some gears here in the near future because i just ungraded tire size. i found a good deal on some yukon gears, a front and rear package for 360$$$. are yukon gears good? and is that a good deal. if anyone has any other suggestions im looking for front and rear 4.56 or 4.88's for a 98 tj with a d44 rear and a stock d30 front. thanks fellas

corey.

Something not mentioned here is if you have an auto or manual? That will make a difference too.

auto... 4.56
manual... 4.88

[desertfabmotors]

Read my post again Todd. I also ran 37's and wheeled hard. If you have any doubts; ask some of the members here who wheeled with me in my TJ. I had no mercy on that Jeep. Come on....a 5 speed and a stock 231 running Montrose? I drove it there and back home. The first front shaft I broke sent a shockwave through my 30 that unseated both balljoints on passenger side. The second shaft was a Superior which sheared in half in two spots, broke the carrier and driver's side carrier bearing! I drove the Jeep home from Payson not knowing the carrier was broke. Stu helped me repair it. If those gears were going to break; they should have after that, but I guess I just didn't wheel hard enough. :confused:

Eric, never said you did not wheel hard, all I am saying is it is not the gears is why they break.
It is a D30 with big tires, LOW CRAWL RATIO. Alot depends on driving style of each person. It is no different than why certain people break R&P's in D60's all the time.

[DsrtJeeper]

Eric, never said you did not wheel hard, all I am saying is it is not the gears is why they break.
It is a D30 with big tires, LOW CRAWL RATIO. Alot depends on driving style of each person. It is no different than why certain people break R&P's in D60's all the time.

Agreed. The thing is that I know Barry wheels very well. Barry also stated that not having a 4:1 adds to breakage. Now couple that to the fact that I ran a 5-speed and I should have been breaking R&P's. That's what confuses me. Wouldn't you agree that my front end breakage should have tested the R&P to it's limits? I truley believe that there is a big difference in installers and gear brands. I already know for a fact that installation had a big effect on one member's front R&P breakage. This is why I asked Barry where his were installed, but I really don't blame him for not responding.

That will be even worse if you do not have 4:1 in the xfer case since there will be more shock loading on the gears which appears to be the primary cause of failure based on examining parts after they have broken. I have never tried to claim warranty on them because I figure they are seeing duty above and beyond for the most part.

[xFallen]

Agreed. The thing is that I know Barry wheels very well. Barry also stated that not having a 4:1 adds to breakage. Now couple that to the fact that I ran a 5-speed and I should have been breaking R&P's. That's what confuses me. Wouldn't you agree that my front end breakage should have tested the R&P to it's limits? I truley believe that there is a big difference in installers and gear brands. I already know for a fact that installation had a big effect on one member's front R&P breakage. This is why I asked Barry where his were installed, but I really don't blame him for not responding.

I didn't answer because Todd already stated it.

The D30 has a miniscule 7.2" ring gear and at 4.88:1 a tiny 8 tooth pinion. Couple that with frequent sheer verticle climbs (no slope) plus 37" tires and extra torque from a 4:1, and yes I would expect it to break eventually. That is without full throttle assaults (except maybe now and then -- I really wanted that fall on X when it was wet and almost had it but was denied).

The body of anecdotal evidence throughout the States for what I would consider hardcore use demonstrates this time and again. It is not a piece of crap axle. It just won't last as long as a D60 in use scenarios where a D60 is indicated.

For the record, the installs were done correctly and professionally each and every time as post failure analysis revealed. The D44 is holding up just fine and it has been inspected carefully.

I logged over 220 trails in 11 months, 70+ days out of a possible 95 wheeling days, 3-4 trails per trip, rarely running anything less than a solid 4. Die Hard, Collateral Damage, Anaconda, Twisted, X, AA and so on. H2H 3 times, AA, Woodpeckers twice, and X once, and more in 3 weekends in October alone (15 trails total) not to even mention the other easy runs at WT (Firebird/Ruler/etc.) and the lesser but still fun trails at TM. That's a lot of wheeling in a short period of time and does not include scenic runs.

The D30 won't hold up to that type of use for very long.


Barry

[desertfabmotors]

I didn't answer because Todd already stated it.

The D30 has a miniscule 7.2" ring gear and at 4.88:1 a tiny 8 tooth pinion. Couple that with frequent sheer verticle climbs (no slope) plus 37" tires and extra torque from a 4:1, and yes I would expect it to break eventually. That is without full throttle assaults (except maybe now and then -- I really wanted that fall on X when it was wet and almost had it but was denied).

The body of anecdotal evidence throughout the States for what I would consider hardcore use demonstrates this time and again. It is not a piece of crap axle. It just won't last as long as a D60 in use scenarios where a D60 is indicated.

For the record, the installs were done correctly and professionally each and every time as post failure analysis revealed. The D44 is holding up just fine and it has been inspected carefully.

I logged over 220 trails in 11 months, 70+ days out of a possible 95 wheeling days, 3-4 trails per trip, rarely running anything less than a solid 4. Die Hard, Collateral Damage, Anaconda, Twisted, X, AA and so on. H2H 3 times, AA, Woodpeckers twice, and X once, and more in 3 weekends in October alone (15 trails total) not to even mention the other easy runs at WT (Firebird/Ruler/etc.) and the lesser but still fun trails at TM. That's a lot of wheeling in a short period of time and does not include scenic runs.

The D30 won't hold up to that type of use for very long.


Barry


But is it not easier to blame it on the installer, shop, manufacture ect..:p
:p

[4 Wheelers Supply]

This happens everytime. totally off track.
The question was. Is $360 a good price on Yukon gears and install kits. I asked "Are they Master install kits with bearings or just plain ol install kits". We never got a answer.
If they are both sets with master kits for $360 YES it is a good deal.
If they are both sets with just install kits, NO it is not a good deal. Im CHEAPER
Would I use Yukon gears? No not when there are so many other options. (Dana/Spicer,Superior,Genuine,Richmond).
Call me if you have questions.:)

[AZXJ]

i heard that anything from yukon was garbage.

is this true?

the guy that told me this seemed to know his stuff.

can't always believe everything you hear.. There are facts that prove otherwise..

[DsrtJeeper]

I didn't answer because Todd already stated it.

The D30 has a miniscule 7.2" ring gear and at 4.88:1 a tiny 8 tooth pinion. Couple that with frequent sheer verticle climbs (no slope) plus 37" tires and extra torque from a 4:1, and yes I would expect it to break eventually. That is without full throttle assaults (except maybe now and then -- I really wanted that fall on X when it was wet and almost had it but was denied).

The body of anecdotal evidence throughout the States for what I would consider hardcore use demonstrates this time and again. It is not a piece of crap axle. It just won't last as long as a D60 in use scenarios where a D60 is indicated.

For the record, the installs were done correctly and professionally each and every time as post failure analysis revealed. The D44 is holding up just fine and it has been inspected carefully.

I logged over 220 trails in 11 months, 70+ days out of a possible 95 wheeling days, 3-4 trails per trip, rarely running anything less than a solid 4. Die Hard, Collateral Damage, Anaconda, Twisted, X, AA and so on. H2H 3 times, AA, Woodpeckers twice, and X once, and more in 3 weekends in October alone (15 trails total) not to even mention the other easy runs at WT (Firebird/Ruler/etc.) and the lesser but still fun trails at TM. That's a lot of wheeling in a short period of time and does not include scenic runs.

The D30 won't hold up to that type of use for very long.


Barry

Barry;
You still failed to adress the quote I inserted in my last post. This isn't a pissing contest about who wheeled more. I assure you that I did wheel the piss out of my Heep though and ran plenty of 5.0's. You broke how many times over the period you stated? I never broke gears. According to your thinking; that would make your gears junk. I'm basing this on your Yukon shaft theory which I happen to agree with. Now before you get all pissy at me again; realize that I'm curious and not looking for argument. This is a discussion only. :)

Now try to adress just the question I posed along with your quote. I'm still puzzled at your breakage.

[DsrtJeeper]

But is it not easier to blame it on the installer, shop, manufacture ect..:p
:p

You mean like you and every other shop does when an ARB fails? Nice job reading into my threads as usual.

[DsrtJeeper]

This happens everytime. totally off track.
The question was. Is $360 a good price on Yukon gears and install kits. I asked "Are they Master install kits with bearings or just plain ol install kits". We never got a answer.
If they are both sets with master kits for $360 YES it is a good deal.
If they are both sets with just install kits, NO it is not a good deal. Im CHEAPER
Would I use Yukon gears? No not when there are so many other options. (Dana/Spicer,Superior,Genuine,Richmond).
Call me if you have questions.:)

Sorry Simon. I posted a simple idea/question and it bugs the crap outta me how people beat around the bush. I guess I shouldn't ask simple questions. :confused:

[desertfabmotors]

You mean like you and every other shop does when an ARB fails? Nice job reading into my threads as usual.

What are you talking about.:confused: :confused:

Eric, where did I mention you, I was saying in general people blame the installer ect. for a R&P breaking. For the record I will run nothing but ARB, In Ten years of installing ARB's I have had 2 failers and it was just an O-ring, and have sheared pins but that is not ARB's fault it was big tires with a D44.

And lower gearing in the t-case will put more strain on gears, because you are not slipping the clutch to keep the engine from dying.

OOP's back on topic..... Yukon Gears are a quality gear..

[ThumpAZ]

There was that other ARB recently that took a MAJOR dump... but I don't think that it was the ARB's fault as it was just spinning free in the pumpkin once all the ring gear bolts sheared. :eek:

Yukon is a good set (and not just because we sell them... we also sell Alloy USA, etc.). As Simon said, though... if that is just standard install kits, then it's not the best deal you can get. If it is master kits, then I'd snag 'em.

[lostoffroad]

i have yukons in my truck and have installed quite a few sets in other vehicles with nothing but great luck. as far as axleshafts go im a superior/ctm fan, but i am putting a set of yukon alloy shafts in my rear 60(got them as part of a trade). we'll see how long they last. if the yukon shafts last in my truggy they should last a lot longer in a jeep or buggy. just my opinion.

[DsrtJeeper]

What are you talking about.:confused: :confused:

Eric, where did I mention you, I was saying in general people blame the installer ect. for a R&P breaking. For the record I will run nothing but ARB, In Ten years of installing ARB's I have had 2 failers and it was just an O-ring, and have sheared pins but that is not ARB's fault it was big tires with a D44.

And lower gearing in the t-case will put more strain on gears, because you are not slipping the clutch to keep the engine from dying.

OOP's back on topic..... Yukon Gears are a quality gear..

I'm having an ARB installed this week. I'm sold after much debate.:)

Posted by Xfallen:
That will be even worse if you do not have 4:1 in the xfer case since there will be more shock loading on the gears which appears to be the primary cause of failure based on examining parts after they have broken.

I agree with you Todd that 4:1 will add more stress. I just couldn't figure out why Barry said the above.??? If the above were true; I should have broke even more. Yet; I have never broke a R&P and only know two people who have in a Dana 30 front.