blooddrive
01-04-2004, 09:18 AM
38153-38177
38153 From: Nick Gasmena <horizon@h...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 2:12am
Subject: Re: Re: MEMBER SIGHTING
ahhh... I was in the left lane :) Sorry I didnt wave... I was rather
tired!!! *wave*
Nick Gasmena - nickg@h...
-----------------------
Horizon Web Site - Http://www.HuskiesOnline.Com
My Jeep Pictures - http://www.azvjc.org/Gallery/View.asp?U=1637
My 4x4 Site - Http://www.huskiesonline.com/offroad
----- Original Message -----
From: "msa12171" <msa12171@a...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 7:51 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: MEMBER SIGHTING
> i was in the dk blue TJ (spice top) that was beside you at 51st ave
> and 101.
>
> Mike A.
> "Az_A"
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
38154 From: Nick Gasmena <horizon@h...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 2:24am
Subject: Re: FrUsTrAtiOn!!!
I need bushings too.. I went in there and you need to order the parts from
RE. The only thing they had were some XJ bushings they said MIGHT work....
I dont rely on might :)
I think the part numbers are like RE9996 and RE9998 or something like that
(for reference)
Nick Gasmena - nickg@h...
-----------------------
Horizon Web Site - Http://www.HuskiesOnline.Com
My Jeep Pictures - http://www.azvjc.org/Gallery/View.asp?U=1637
My 4x4 Site - Http://www.huskiesonline.com/offroad
----- Original Message -----
From: "Halverson" <byrnec@q...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] FrUsTrAtiOn!!!
> Try 4-wheelers supply, I was just in there, so, I know that they are open
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jeepin_in_az" <jeepin_in_az@y...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 2:36 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] FrUsTrAtiOn!!!
>
>
> > DAMN IT!!! Every 4x4 place I have called is closed untill after the
> > 1st! It really pisses me off, I want RE upper adjust control arms,
> > Tera bushings for the lowers. I called ToyBox last week, left a
> > message, and no return call. Also called BigOffroad, same thing. I
> > did get a hold of Gorferitoffroad and ordered my 1" MM lift. $45
> > plus $9.50 shipping! Pretty good deal! Also got a hold of ORU to
> > see if they had any bushings, nope, have to order from Teraflex, and
> > they are closed till the 2nd.....
> >
> > Oh well, guess they don't want my money.....;)
> >
> > Mike Baney
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
38155 From: Nick Gasmena <horizon@h...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 2:25am
Subject: Re: Re: Optima yellow
Try your local Offroad Unlimited :) I think they have them at the scottsdale
store John.
Nick Gasmena - nickg@h...
-----------------------
Horizon Web Site - Http://www.HuskiesOnline.Com
My Jeep Pictures - http://www.azvjc.org/Gallery/View.asp?U=1637
My 4x4 Site - Http://www.huskiesonline.com/offroad
----- Original Message -----
From: "paparoach85251" <lespaparoach@m...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 4:24 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Optima yellow
> I bought an Optima red top at costco a while back for under a hundred
> bucks. No special tools were needed to drop it in.
> As for the yellow tops, I know Desert Rat in Tempe usually has them
> in stock. I have no idea what they charge for them though.
>
> Les
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "jeepin_in_az" <jeepin_in_az@y...> wrote:
> > If anyone replies, do it to the whole group, I am looking for one
> too.
> > Any other items needed to drop in an Optima?
> >
> > Mike Baney
> >
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., Jon Loveless <jonloveless@m...> wrote:
> > > My battery is dying quickly. I need a Yellow top before the
> > weekend. Anyone
> > > know of a good deal? Or, does anyone know who even carries them
> > locally?
> > > East valley preferred.
> > >
> > > TIA.
> > >
> > > Jon
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------
> > > Jon Loveless
> > > (480)816-6240 office AZ
> > > jonloveless@m...
> > > ___________________________
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
38156 From: <JNB4PLS@a...>
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2001 10:54pm
Subject: Re: FrUsTrAtiOn!!!
Scott,
Now that I know they are factory bushings I'm going to run them down tomorrow
and put them in this weekend. I'd do it today but I promised my boys I'd
take them snowboarding at Sunrise for the day. Good luck on axle alley, wish
I could have made that one with you guys.
Best Regards,
John Butler
38157 From: imagineero <imagineero@x...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 4:30am
Subject: Re: Re: welding diff's?
Hi Mike,
Thanks for your gracious offer, the cost of the unit is not that high, but
the cost of shipping (probably under $50) plus a %30 import tax (30% of
$250=$75) adds up to about $370. Then there's the fact that the exchange
rate is pretty ****ty and the question of after sales
service...... There's a mob over here selling them for around $400, so if
I buy one then I think I'll go with that.
>If you find out what the cost of shipping a Lockright to you from
>Powertrax directly or I can get one shipped to you. Let me know if
>that is any help.
>
>Mike Anderson
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
38158 From: Halverson <byrnec@q...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 5:09am
Subject: Re: [FS] WANTED Hidden hitch for TJ
I have a 2" receiver hitch that came off my '99. My cell is 602-568-5711
John
----- Original Message -----
From: AzVJC Website
To: AzVJC
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 4:39 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] [FS] WANTED Hidden hitch for TJ
Price: negotiable
Contact: mikey710@hotmail.com or (602) 882-9895
Looking for a Hitch for my TJ. Last month someone had one for sale out of Ahwatukee but I lost the contact info. If you still have it for sale please contact me.
Mike,
hiett710@yahoo.com
Mike Hiett
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
38159 From: Gary Holmes <niitoyis@w...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 6:11am
Subject: Re: So what did everyone get for christmas
Eddie:
Where did the covers come from. I have some covers on my Hella 550 Fog lights
that need replacing.
Gary Holmes
Kilr650@a... wrote:
> I got a pair of Hella model 500 driving lights. My fiance also got the clear
> protective lens covers for them in addition to the covers that come with
> them.
>
> Anyone have feedback on the most effective position to mount them? Bumper,
> windshield frame, or light bar? If mounted on the bumper are they legal for
> highway use ( 55 watt H3 bulb) ?
>
> Eddie
> '98 TJ
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
38160 From: Kevin Thornton <ktcflhd@y...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 6:14am
Subject: Re: rusty's offroad
I have had the 3" AAL lift on my 94 XJ for about a
month now. I'm happy with the lift and had no
problems with the order.
Kevin
94XJ
--- Mike & Karen Acuna <macunasprint@e...>
wrote:
> Has anyone in the group used any of Rusty's Offroad
> lifts, control arms,
> or trackbar?
> Any comments?
> Thanks, Mike
> http://www.rustysoffroad.com/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________
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Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
38161 From: Gary Holmes <niitoyis@w...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 6:17am
Subject: Re: So what did everyone get for christmas
Eddie:
Technically, you are required to have the lights set up utilizing relays so that
the driving lights only come on when you have the High Beam on. Fog lights
should only be used with Low Beam. Both are legal to use but aiming them
correctly is a must otherwise you'll be blinding oncoming drivers (on the road
of course.) Fog lights should be mounted low for less relected glare. Driving
lights mounted higher for a longer reach down the highway. Mounting them too
high (light bar, windshield piller, etc. can cause reflections off body parts
(hood, etc.) that can kill your night vision. Not a good thing obviously.
Gary Holmes
Kilr650@a... wrote:
> Anyone have feedback on the most effective position to mount them? Bumper,
> windshield frame, or light bar? If mounted on the bumper are they legal for
> highway use ( 55 watt H3 bulb) ?
>
> Eddie
> '98 TJ
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
38162 From: Gary Holmes <niitoyis@w...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 6:28am
Subject: Re: Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Group:
It is my humble opinion that the difference between a Deep Cycle (Yellow Top)
and a Starter (Red Top) battery is the duty cycle. Yellow Top's are designed
for low, slow draw down and recharge while Red Top's are for large, quick
current draw.
An electric winch draws current in the 450 amp arena during the pull
depending on how close to stall it is or how hard it is pulling. This is not
the type of usage a Deep Cycle battery is designed for . I can't say what
the end result would be in terms of life expencency for the battery. It may
be that it doesn't really care.
BTW, I have a HYDRAULIC winch, a Red Top Optima and don't run more lights
than the alternator can support.
Gary Holmes
P.S.: I seem to be on a soap box this morning. I have something to say
about everything it seems.
38163 From: msa12171 <msa12171@a...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 6:26am
Subject: Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Thanks for all the input, but if I buy an Optima, which one is best
for my situation? I understand getting a better (high output)
alternator, but what about the battery? I still don't know what is
the best Optima for what I will be using.
Mike A.
"Az_A"
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...> wrote:
> Joey,
>
> A winch can draw in excess of 400 amps. It draws this from the
battery as
> the alternator tries to trickle it back in. Thats why many Jeeps
run dual
> batteries so they have more winching capacity. At some point you
have to
> give the winching a break to recharge the batteries.
>
> For normal operation of lights, CB's, ignition, headlamps, etc you
should be
> drawing off the alternator. If your alternator is too small you may
start
> draining the battery faster than the alternator can keep it
charged. In that
> scenario you want a larger output alternator that can provide the
amount of
> juice needed at any time.
>
> For most of us that means we need at least a 100 amp alternator to
get the
> job done. Obviously bigger is indeed better.
>
> Scott K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 7:43 PM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Cc: 'Joe W'
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
>
>
>
> I think you guys are thinking of the Optima's in the wrong way. Now
I am
> sure Joe will correct me if I am wrong but a battery should be used
> mostly as a backup or supplement to your alternator. In other words
if
> your Alternator puts out 50 amps (just for numbers) and your lights
+
> winch + cb + whatever takes up 100 amps then your battery is going
to
> take up the slack. (if it can). That is where an Optima fits in.
>
> However I would suggest you consider getting a higher output
alternator
> as well. I believe it possible to run a trail with your 150 watt x 4
> plus rock lights plus AC plus radio plus whatever and drain your
battery
> even though your Jeep is running.
>
> Joey K
> 93YJ
> www.desertjeep.com
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bermboy2000 [mailto:bermboy@h...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 6:39 PM
> > To: az_vjc@y...
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
> >
> >
> > I think a yellow top would probably be better since you have the
> > winch but my red top is fine with a/c rocklights, stereo and air
> > compressor, I guess it depends on houw much use the winch gets.
> >
> > BTW what is ths "AZ_A" Thing?
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., "msa12171" <msa12171@a...> wrote:
> > > Which Optima would be best for a TJ with winch, lights, stereo,
> > > etc.? I might be replacing my batt. real soon and would like to
> > know
> > > which one is the most desired for my application. TIA!
> > >
> > > Mike A.
> > > "Az_A"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
38164 From: msa12171 <msa12171@a...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 6:30am
Subject: Re: I can get the Yellow Top
Do you have any tech info on the yellow top? Is that the best one
for running high draw accesories? What kind of price can you get it
for?
Thanks!
Mike Anderson
--- In az_vjc@y..., hunteroffroad@a... wrote:
> I saw some of you asking about the Yellow Top. I can get them at a
really
> good discount. Normally sell around 169 to 179.. I can get them
for you
> guys for a great discount. Call me at the shop (480-557-7577) or
email me.
>
> John K
> Hunter Offroad
38165 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 6:48am
Subject: RE: Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Thats interesting because Optima recommends their Yellow Top for winching
applications and won't warranty a Red Top that fails if it was used for
winching. A true slow draw Optima would be the Blue Top. The Yellow Top is
rated for starter, lights, and ignition.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Holmes [mailto:niitoyis@w...]
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 7:28 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Group:
It is my humble opinion that the difference between a Deep Cycle (Yellow
Top)
and a Starter (Red Top) battery is the duty cycle. Yellow Top's are
designed
for low, slow draw down and recharge while Red Top's are for large, quick
current draw.
An electric winch draws current in the 450 amp arena during the pull
depending on how close to stall it is or how hard it is pulling. This is
not
the type of usage a Deep Cycle battery is designed for . I can't say what
the end result would be in terms of life expencency for the battery. It may
be that it doesn't really care.
BTW, I have a HYDRAULIC winch, a Red Top Optima and don't run more lights
than the alternator can support.
Gary Holmes
P.S.: I seem to be on a soap box this morning. I have something to say
about everything it seems.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
38166 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 6:48am
Subject: Re: Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Bottom line< IMO...it doesn't really matter much if you go red top or
yellow. I've been running a red top for nearly 3 years, and I winch a lot
(more than most)...with the motor running.
The most important thing is to get an Optima.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "msa12171" <msa12171@a...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 7:26 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
> Thanks for all the input, but if I buy an Optima, which one is best
> for my situation? I understand getting a better (high output)
> alternator, but what about the battery? I still don't know what is
> the best Optima for what I will be using.
>
> Mike A.
> "Az_A"
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...> wrote:
> > Joey,
> >
> > A winch can draw in excess of 400 amps. It draws this from the
> battery as
> > the alternator tries to trickle it back in. Thats why many Jeeps
> run dual
> > batteries so they have more winching capacity. At some point you
> have to
> > give the winching a break to recharge the batteries.
> >
> > For normal operation of lights, CB's, ignition, headlamps, etc you
> should be
> > drawing off the alternator. If your alternator is too small you may
> start
> > draining the battery faster than the alternator can keep it
> charged. In that
> > scenario you want a larger output alternator that can provide the
> amount of
> > juice needed at any time.
> >
> > For most of us that means we need at least a 100 amp alternator to
> get the
> > job done. Obviously bigger is indeed better.
> >
> > Scott K
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 7:43 PM
> > To: az_vjc@y...
> > Cc: 'Joe W'
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
> >
> >
> >
> > I think you guys are thinking of the Optima's in the wrong way. Now
> I am
> > sure Joe will correct me if I am wrong but a battery should be used
> > mostly as a backup or supplement to your alternator. In other words
> if
> > your Alternator puts out 50 amps (just for numbers) and your lights
> +
> > winch + cb + whatever takes up 100 amps then your battery is going
> to
> > take up the slack. (if it can). That is where an Optima fits in.
> >
> > However I would suggest you consider getting a higher output
> alternator
> > as well. I believe it possible to run a trail with your 150 watt x 4
> > plus rock lights plus AC plus radio plus whatever and drain your
> battery
> > even though your Jeep is running.
> >
> > Joey K
> > 93YJ
> > www.desertjeep.com
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: bermboy2000 [mailto:bermboy@h...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 6:39 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@y...
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
> > >
> > >
> > > I think a yellow top would probably be better since you have the
> > > winch but my red top is fine with a/c rocklights, stereo and air
> > > compressor, I guess it depends on houw much use the winch gets.
> > >
> > > BTW what is ths "AZ_A" Thing?
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@y..., "msa12171" <msa12171@a...> wrote:
> > > > Which Optima would be best for a TJ with winch, lights, stereo,
> > > > etc.? I might be replacing my batt. real soon and would like to
> > > know
> > > > which one is the most desired for my application. TIA!
> > > >
> > > > Mike A.
> > > > "Az_A"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
38167 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:19am
Subject: Re: FrUsTrAtiOn!!!
John, make sure you go to Darners and get the club discount that Doug
B set up....
Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., JNB4PLS@a... wrote:
> Thanks Linda,
> I just checked out Stu's site and you are correct. They are the
same. To
> hell with RE and their extended vacation. Off to the dealership.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> John
38168 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:19am
Subject: Re: FrUsTrAtiOn!!!
Think was the key word ;) Thought wrong, huh? :)
Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., linda luik <minihummer@w...> wrote:
> You mean RE came up with their own proprietary rubber bushing
design for
> the long arms? I don't think so! That would drive the cost of the
kit up
> too high and I doubt they have the expertise for that sort of
thing.
>
> Linda
>
> jeepin_in_az wrote:
> >
> > Not in the long arm kit Linda, at least I don't think they do.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., linda luik <minihummer@w...> wrote:
> > > Doesn't RE still use factory rubber bushings?
> > > Linda
> > >
> > > JNB4PLS@a... wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Mike,
> > > >
> > > > I tried ordering RE control arm bushings for my front lowers
> > today since I
> > > > found them to be in as bad a shape as the rears and ran in to
the
> > same thing.
> > > > RE is taking phone calls, but won't take orders until the
second.
> > > > Unbelievable.
> > > >
> > > > John Butler
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
38169 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:37am
Subject: RE: Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Gary,
It was indeed a sad day, IMO, when the marketing people at Optima used the
term "deep cycle" to describe their Yellow Top battery.
I grew up in Minnesota, where we have as many lakes as AZ has rocks in their
washes. ;) A deep cycle battery was, as you describe it, made for trolling
motors. A low continuous amp draw all day long from a little 12 VDC motor.
Likewise, the recharge time was 8 to 12 hours (overnight usually).
However, if you go to the Optima web site and look at the specs on the
Yellow Top battery, it has anything but "deep cycle" characteristics. It
is designed to handle significant amp draws (up to and including those
caused by a winch) and the ability to handle a high and rapid recharge is
also designed into the battery.
Indeed, the Yellow Top battery is designed to source a huge amount of winch
current and then withstand a big beefy alternator's recharge current....time
and time again. And they do spec the number of deep discharge cycles that
you can expect from the Yellow Top.
The Optima marketing people did indeed do their company a disservice by
using the term deep cycle. Luckily, the battery does not perform like the
old style deep cycle batteries that I grew up with.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Holmes [mailto:niitoyis@w...]
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 7:28 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Group:
It is my humble opinion that the difference between a Deep Cycle (Yellow
Top)
and a Starter (Red Top) battery is the duty cycle. Yellow Top's are
designed
for low, slow draw down and recharge while Red Top's are for large, quick
current draw.
An electric winch draws current in the 450 amp arena during the pull
depending on how close to stall it is or how hard it is pulling. This is
not
the type of usage a Deep Cycle battery is designed for . I can't say what
the end result would be in terms of life expencency for the battery. It may
be that it doesn't really care.
BTW, I have a HYDRAULIC winch, a Red Top Optima and don't run more lights
than the alternator can support.
Gary Holmes
P.S.: I seem to be on a soap box this morning. I have something to say
about everything it seems.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
38170 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:38am
Subject: RE: Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Yellow, or the deep cycle rated Blue....they are the same battery with
different colored cases.
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: msa12171 [mailto:msa12171@a...]
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 7:27 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Thanks for all the input, but if I buy an Optima, which one is best
for my situation? I understand getting a better (high output)
alternator, but what about the battery? I still don't know what is
the best Optima for what I will be using.
Mike A.
"Az_A"
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...> wrote:
> Joey,
>
> A winch can draw in excess of 400 amps. It draws this from the
battery as
> the alternator tries to trickle it back in. Thats why many Jeeps
run dual
> batteries so they have more winching capacity. At some point you
have to
> give the winching a break to recharge the batteries.
>
> For normal operation of lights, CB's, ignition, headlamps, etc you
should be
> drawing off the alternator. If your alternator is too small you may
start
> draining the battery faster than the alternator can keep it
charged. In that
> scenario you want a larger output alternator that can provide the
amount of
> juice needed at any time.
>
> For most of us that means we need at least a 100 amp alternator to
get the
> job done. Obviously bigger is indeed better.
>
> Scott K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 7:43 PM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Cc: 'Joe W'
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
>
>
>
> I think you guys are thinking of the Optima's in the wrong way. Now
I am
> sure Joe will correct me if I am wrong but a battery should be used
> mostly as a backup or supplement to your alternator. In other words
if
> your Alternator puts out 50 amps (just for numbers) and your lights
+
> winch + cb + whatever takes up 100 amps then your battery is going
to
> take up the slack. (if it can). That is where an Optima fits in.
>
> However I would suggest you consider getting a higher output
alternator
> as well. I believe it possible to run a trail with your 150 watt x 4
> plus rock lights plus AC plus radio plus whatever and drain your
battery
> even though your Jeep is running.
>
> Joey K
> 93YJ
> www.desertjeep.com
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bermboy2000 [mailto:bermboy@h...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 6:39 PM
> > To: az_vjc@y...
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
> >
> >
> > I think a yellow top would probably be better since you have the
> > winch but my red top is fine with a/c rocklights, stereo and air
> > compressor, I guess it depends on houw much use the winch gets.
> >
> > BTW what is ths "AZ_A" Thing?
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., "msa12171" <msa12171@a...> wrote:
> > > Which Optima would be best for a TJ with winch, lights, stereo,
> > > etc.? I might be replacing my batt. real soon and would like to
> > know
> > > which one is the most desired for my application. TIA!
> > >
> > > Mike A.
> > > "Az_A"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
38171 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:40am
Subject: RE: Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Time for all to go to the Optima web site and read the specs, IMHO. The
facts are beginning to get diluted with non-facts. ;)
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@e...]
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 7:48 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Thats interesting because Optima recommends their Yellow Top for winching
applications and won't warranty a Red Top that fails if it was used for
winching. A true slow draw Optima would be the Blue Top. The Yellow Top is
rated for starter, lights, and ignition.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Holmes [mailto:niitoyis@w...]
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 7:28 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Group:
It is my humble opinion that the difference between a Deep Cycle (Yellow
Top)
and a Starter (Red Top) battery is the duty cycle. Yellow Top's are
designed
for low, slow draw down and recharge while Red Top's are for large, quick
current draw.
An electric winch draws current in the 450 amp arena during the pull
depending on how close to stall it is or how hard it is pulling. This is
not
the type of usage a Deep Cycle battery is designed for . I can't say what
the end result would be in terms of life expencency for the battery. It may
be that it doesn't really care.
BTW, I have a HYDRAULIC winch, a Red Top Optima and don't run more lights
than the alternator can support.
Gary Holmes
P.S.: I seem to be on a soap box this morning. I have something to say
about everything it seems.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
38172 From: Joe W <arizonajeep@h...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:56am
Subject: RE: Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
I've run a red top for the past couple of years myself... no problems yet!
Joe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@h...]
> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 7:49 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
>
>
> Bottom line< IMO...it doesn't really matter much if you go red top or
> yellow. I've been running a red top for nearly 3 years, and I
> winch a lot
> (more than most)...with the motor running.
>
> The most important thing is to get an Optima.
>
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "msa12171" <msa12171@a...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 7:26 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
>
>
> > Thanks for all the input, but if I buy an Optima, which one is best
> > for my situation? I understand getting a better (high output)
> > alternator, but what about the battery? I still don't know what is
> > the best Optima for what I will be using.
> >
> > Mike A.
> > "Az_A"
> >
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...> wrote:
> > > Joey,
> > >
> > > A winch can draw in excess of 400 amps. It draws this from the
> > battery as
> > > the alternator tries to trickle it back in. Thats why many Jeeps
> > run dual
> > > batteries so they have more winching capacity. At some point you
> > have to
> > > give the winching a break to recharge the batteries.
> > >
> > > For normal operation of lights, CB's, ignition, headlamps, etc you
> > should be
> > > drawing off the alternator. If your alternator is too
> small you may
> > start
> > > draining the battery faster than the alternator can keep it
> > charged. In that
> > > scenario you want a larger output alternator that can provide the
> > amount of
> > > juice needed at any time.
> > >
> > > For most of us that means we need at least a 100 amp alternator to
> > get the
> > > job done. Obviously bigger is indeed better.
> > >
> > > Scott K
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 7:43 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@y...
> > > Cc: 'Joe W'
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I think you guys are thinking of the Optima's in the
> wrong way. Now
> > I am
> > > sure Joe will correct me if I am wrong but a battery
> should be used
> > > mostly as a backup or supplement to your alternator. In
> other words
> > if
> > > your Alternator puts out 50 amps (just for numbers) and
> your lights
> > +
> > > winch + cb + whatever takes up 100 amps then your battery is going
> > to
> > > take up the slack. (if it can). That is where an Optima fits in.
> > >
> > > However I would suggest you consider getting a higher output
> > alternator
> > > as well. I believe it possible to run a trail with your
> 150 watt x 4
> > > plus rock lights plus AC plus radio plus whatever and drain your
> > battery
> > > even though your Jeep is running.
> > >
> > > Joey K
> > > 93YJ
> > > www.desertjeep.com
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: bermboy2000 [mailto:bermboy@h...]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 6:39 PM
> > > > To: az_vjc@y...
> > > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I think a yellow top would probably be better since you have the
> > > > winch but my red top is fine with a/c rocklights, stereo and air
> > > > compressor, I guess it depends on houw much use the winch gets.
> > > >
> > > > BTW what is ths "AZ_A" Thing?
> > > >
> > > > --- In az_vjc@y..., "msa12171" <msa12171@a...> wrote:
> > > > > Which Optima would be best for a TJ with winch,
> lights, stereo,
> > > > > etc.? I might be replacing my batt. real soon and
> would like to
> > > > know
> > > > > which one is the most desired for my application. TIA!
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike A.
> > > > > "Az_A"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
38173 From: AzVJC Website <Mike@A...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:59am
Subject: [TR] Trip Report - Lake Pleasant to Crown King - Monday, December 24, 2001
Hello All,
Mike Chatfield lead a trail run Monday, December 24, 2001 across Lake Pleasant to Crown King
Well there was just two jeeps; Brian Hill in his XJ and my wife, the kids and I in our CJ. Since this was more of a run to see the scenery and get to the snow, we skipped all of the "hard stuff." Some sections of the main trail have been chewed up and there are some good sized holes. Brian had no trouble picking the right line for his stock XJ and only needed a little spotting over the ledge just before Oro Belle.
It took us roughly 3 hours to reach the top, only stopping twice along the way (once after all of the washboard dirt road, and once at Burro John's place), where the kids got a chance to play in the frozen snow. We then headed on in to Crown King to get some fudge.
Trip Attendees:
Mike Chatfield
Click Here to View Pictures (if available)
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
38174 From: Fred <fredtj@h...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 8:06am
Subject: Re: Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Yup, people are getting too caught up in the "words" or verbage. As you
mentioned Stu, the Yellow Top (and the "deep cycle" Blue Top), is
designed to be rapidly drawn low and recharged, either slowly or
rapidly, many times, unlike a "normal" lead/acid "starting" style
battery. We all know what's being described and talked about. Call it
what one wishes, but let's not get hung up on the words, as, a friend
once said, "it's syntatic sugar" ;)
Cheers :),
Fred
Stu Olson wrote:
>Gary,
>
>It was indeed a sad day, IMO, when the marketing people at Optima used the
>term "deep cycle" to describe their Yellow Top battery.
>
>I grew up in Minnesota, where we have as many lakes as AZ has rocks in their
>washes. ;) A deep cycle battery was, as you describe it, made for trolling
>motors. A low continuous amp draw all day long from a little 12 VDC motor.
>Likewise, the recharge time was 8 to 12 hours (overnight usually).
>
>However, if you go to the Optima web site and look at the specs on the
>Yellow Top battery, it has anything but "deep cycle" characteristics. It
>is designed to handle significant amp draws (up to and including those
>caused by a winch) and the ability to handle a high and rapid recharge is
>also designed into the battery.
>
>Indeed, the Yellow Top battery is designed to source a huge amount of winch
>current and then withstand a big beefy alternator's recharge current....time
>and time again. And they do spec the number of deep discharge cycles that
>you can expect from the Yellow Top.
>
>The Optima marketing people did indeed do their company a disservice by
>using the term deep cycle. Luckily, the battery does not perform like the
>old style deep cycle batteries that I grew up with.
>
>Stu
>
>Stu Olson
>www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Gary Holmes [mailto:niitoyis@w...]
>Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 7:28 AM
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
>
>
>Group:
>
>It is my humble opinion that the difference between a Deep Cycle (Yellow
>Top)
>and a Starter (Red Top) battery is the duty cycle. Yellow Top's are
>designed
>for low, slow draw down and recharge while Red Top's are for large, quick
>current draw.
>
>An electric winch draws current in the 450 amp arena during the pull
>depending on how close to stall it is or how hard it is pulling. This is
>not
>the type of usage a Deep Cycle battery is designed for . I can't say what
>the end result would be in terms of life expencency for the battery. It may
>be that it doesn't really care.
>
>BTW, I have a HYDRAULIC winch, a Red Top Optima and don't run more lights
>than the alternator can support.
>
>Gary Holmes
>
>P.S.: I seem to be on a soap box this morning. I have something to say
>about everything it seems.
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
38175 From: <hunteroffroad@a...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 3:05am
Subject: Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Stu has nailed alot of the issues on the head. But here is some more food for thought
A couple of years ago I was able to sit down and talk to a group of engieneers from Optima. So my info is not from the web page or book, its straight from the guys who builds them and designs them. NO marketing goofys here. Yup the Blue and Yellow are the same, just different marketing. The Yellow top gets its cliam of deep cycle battery becuase of its ablity to support heavy deep draws. (ie. wiching) The red top is a great battery. But if you want a great got have to kick *** battery, or do run a winch alot or want to be sure/sure, A yellow top would be a nice up grade. Here is something to think about, The yellow top weighs more than the red by about 10 to 15 lbs. That alot of extra lead and gel to help maintian its power
well, there is my .02 cents and extra log to the fire
John K
38176 From: az_jeeper_mike <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 8:11am
Subject: Re: So what did everyone get for christmas
A little "super glue" in the gears locks 'em up pretty good ;)
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "DougB" <azjeep@h...> wrote:
> I got a new Jeep!.....remote control, 4x4.... Anyone know where
I can get
> lockers for it??
>
> Doug
>
38177 From: Scott Thomas <sthomas@a...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 8:25am
Subject: RE: next mod ordered today
Hey Les,
Hey did you just order those directly from MORE or thru another rep? If
thru MORE, do they have a web site were I can look at there products and
pricing?
Thank,
Scott Thomas
97' Tj
-----Original Message-----
From: paparoach85251 [mailto:lespaparoach@m...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 3:26 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] next mod ordered today
I just ordered the MORE 1" body lift and 1" motor mounts for the TJ.
This should alleviate any tire rubbing as well as allow me to move
the transfer case back up. They should ship early next week. I will
post when they arrive to ask for advice/help with the install.
BTW, MORE is having a sale now through Dec 31st.
Les
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
38153 From: Nick Gasmena <horizon@h...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 2:12am
Subject: Re: Re: MEMBER SIGHTING
ahhh... I was in the left lane :) Sorry I didnt wave... I was rather
tired!!! *wave*
Nick Gasmena - nickg@h...
-----------------------
Horizon Web Site - Http://www.HuskiesOnline.Com
My Jeep Pictures - http://www.azvjc.org/Gallery/View.asp?U=1637
My 4x4 Site - Http://www.huskiesonline.com/offroad
----- Original Message -----
From: "msa12171" <msa12171@a...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 7:51 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: MEMBER SIGHTING
> i was in the dk blue TJ (spice top) that was beside you at 51st ave
> and 101.
>
> Mike A.
> "Az_A"
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
38154 From: Nick Gasmena <horizon@h...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 2:24am
Subject: Re: FrUsTrAtiOn!!!
I need bushings too.. I went in there and you need to order the parts from
RE. The only thing they had were some XJ bushings they said MIGHT work....
I dont rely on might :)
I think the part numbers are like RE9996 and RE9998 or something like that
(for reference)
Nick Gasmena - nickg@h...
-----------------------
Horizon Web Site - Http://www.HuskiesOnline.Com
My Jeep Pictures - http://www.azvjc.org/Gallery/View.asp?U=1637
My 4x4 Site - Http://www.huskiesonline.com/offroad
----- Original Message -----
From: "Halverson" <byrnec@q...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] FrUsTrAtiOn!!!
> Try 4-wheelers supply, I was just in there, so, I know that they are open
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jeepin_in_az" <jeepin_in_az@y...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 2:36 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] FrUsTrAtiOn!!!
>
>
> > DAMN IT!!! Every 4x4 place I have called is closed untill after the
> > 1st! It really pisses me off, I want RE upper adjust control arms,
> > Tera bushings for the lowers. I called ToyBox last week, left a
> > message, and no return call. Also called BigOffroad, same thing. I
> > did get a hold of Gorferitoffroad and ordered my 1" MM lift. $45
> > plus $9.50 shipping! Pretty good deal! Also got a hold of ORU to
> > see if they had any bushings, nope, have to order from Teraflex, and
> > they are closed till the 2nd.....
> >
> > Oh well, guess they don't want my money.....;)
> >
> > Mike Baney
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
38155 From: Nick Gasmena <horizon@h...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 2:25am
Subject: Re: Re: Optima yellow
Try your local Offroad Unlimited :) I think they have them at the scottsdale
store John.
Nick Gasmena - nickg@h...
-----------------------
Horizon Web Site - Http://www.HuskiesOnline.Com
My Jeep Pictures - http://www.azvjc.org/Gallery/View.asp?U=1637
My 4x4 Site - Http://www.huskiesonline.com/offroad
----- Original Message -----
From: "paparoach85251" <lespaparoach@m...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 4:24 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Optima yellow
> I bought an Optima red top at costco a while back for under a hundred
> bucks. No special tools were needed to drop it in.
> As for the yellow tops, I know Desert Rat in Tempe usually has them
> in stock. I have no idea what they charge for them though.
>
> Les
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "jeepin_in_az" <jeepin_in_az@y...> wrote:
> > If anyone replies, do it to the whole group, I am looking for one
> too.
> > Any other items needed to drop in an Optima?
> >
> > Mike Baney
> >
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., Jon Loveless <jonloveless@m...> wrote:
> > > My battery is dying quickly. I need a Yellow top before the
> > weekend. Anyone
> > > know of a good deal? Or, does anyone know who even carries them
> > locally?
> > > East valley preferred.
> > >
> > > TIA.
> > >
> > > Jon
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------
> > > Jon Loveless
> > > (480)816-6240 office AZ
> > > jonloveless@m...
> > > ___________________________
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
38156 From: <JNB4PLS@a...>
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2001 10:54pm
Subject: Re: FrUsTrAtiOn!!!
Scott,
Now that I know they are factory bushings I'm going to run them down tomorrow
and put them in this weekend. I'd do it today but I promised my boys I'd
take them snowboarding at Sunrise for the day. Good luck on axle alley, wish
I could have made that one with you guys.
Best Regards,
John Butler
38157 From: imagineero <imagineero@x...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 4:30am
Subject: Re: Re: welding diff's?
Hi Mike,
Thanks for your gracious offer, the cost of the unit is not that high, but
the cost of shipping (probably under $50) plus a %30 import tax (30% of
$250=$75) adds up to about $370. Then there's the fact that the exchange
rate is pretty ****ty and the question of after sales
service...... There's a mob over here selling them for around $400, so if
I buy one then I think I'll go with that.
>If you find out what the cost of shipping a Lockright to you from
>Powertrax directly or I can get one shipped to you. Let me know if
>that is any help.
>
>Mike Anderson
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
38158 From: Halverson <byrnec@q...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 5:09am
Subject: Re: [FS] WANTED Hidden hitch for TJ
I have a 2" receiver hitch that came off my '99. My cell is 602-568-5711
John
----- Original Message -----
From: AzVJC Website
To: AzVJC
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 4:39 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] [FS] WANTED Hidden hitch for TJ
Price: negotiable
Contact: mikey710@hotmail.com or (602) 882-9895
Looking for a Hitch for my TJ. Last month someone had one for sale out of Ahwatukee but I lost the contact info. If you still have it for sale please contact me.
Mike,
hiett710@yahoo.com
Mike Hiett
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
38159 From: Gary Holmes <niitoyis@w...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 6:11am
Subject: Re: So what did everyone get for christmas
Eddie:
Where did the covers come from. I have some covers on my Hella 550 Fog lights
that need replacing.
Gary Holmes
Kilr650@a... wrote:
> I got a pair of Hella model 500 driving lights. My fiance also got the clear
> protective lens covers for them in addition to the covers that come with
> them.
>
> Anyone have feedback on the most effective position to mount them? Bumper,
> windshield frame, or light bar? If mounted on the bumper are they legal for
> highway use ( 55 watt H3 bulb) ?
>
> Eddie
> '98 TJ
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
38160 From: Kevin Thornton <ktcflhd@y...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 6:14am
Subject: Re: rusty's offroad
I have had the 3" AAL lift on my 94 XJ for about a
month now. I'm happy with the lift and had no
problems with the order.
Kevin
94XJ
--- Mike & Karen Acuna <macunasprint@e...>
wrote:
> Has anyone in the group used any of Rusty's Offroad
> lifts, control arms,
> or trackbar?
> Any comments?
> Thanks, Mike
> http://www.rustysoffroad.com/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
38161 From: Gary Holmes <niitoyis@w...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 6:17am
Subject: Re: So what did everyone get for christmas
Eddie:
Technically, you are required to have the lights set up utilizing relays so that
the driving lights only come on when you have the High Beam on. Fog lights
should only be used with Low Beam. Both are legal to use but aiming them
correctly is a must otherwise you'll be blinding oncoming drivers (on the road
of course.) Fog lights should be mounted low for less relected glare. Driving
lights mounted higher for a longer reach down the highway. Mounting them too
high (light bar, windshield piller, etc. can cause reflections off body parts
(hood, etc.) that can kill your night vision. Not a good thing obviously.
Gary Holmes
Kilr650@a... wrote:
> Anyone have feedback on the most effective position to mount them? Bumper,
> windshield frame, or light bar? If mounted on the bumper are they legal for
> highway use ( 55 watt H3 bulb) ?
>
> Eddie
> '98 TJ
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
38162 From: Gary Holmes <niitoyis@w...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 6:28am
Subject: Re: Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Group:
It is my humble opinion that the difference between a Deep Cycle (Yellow Top)
and a Starter (Red Top) battery is the duty cycle. Yellow Top's are designed
for low, slow draw down and recharge while Red Top's are for large, quick
current draw.
An electric winch draws current in the 450 amp arena during the pull
depending on how close to stall it is or how hard it is pulling. This is not
the type of usage a Deep Cycle battery is designed for . I can't say what
the end result would be in terms of life expencency for the battery. It may
be that it doesn't really care.
BTW, I have a HYDRAULIC winch, a Red Top Optima and don't run more lights
than the alternator can support.
Gary Holmes
P.S.: I seem to be on a soap box this morning. I have something to say
about everything it seems.
38163 From: msa12171 <msa12171@a...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 6:26am
Subject: Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Thanks for all the input, but if I buy an Optima, which one is best
for my situation? I understand getting a better (high output)
alternator, but what about the battery? I still don't know what is
the best Optima for what I will be using.
Mike A.
"Az_A"
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...> wrote:
> Joey,
>
> A winch can draw in excess of 400 amps. It draws this from the
battery as
> the alternator tries to trickle it back in. Thats why many Jeeps
run dual
> batteries so they have more winching capacity. At some point you
have to
> give the winching a break to recharge the batteries.
>
> For normal operation of lights, CB's, ignition, headlamps, etc you
should be
> drawing off the alternator. If your alternator is too small you may
start
> draining the battery faster than the alternator can keep it
charged. In that
> scenario you want a larger output alternator that can provide the
amount of
> juice needed at any time.
>
> For most of us that means we need at least a 100 amp alternator to
get the
> job done. Obviously bigger is indeed better.
>
> Scott K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 7:43 PM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Cc: 'Joe W'
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
>
>
>
> I think you guys are thinking of the Optima's in the wrong way. Now
I am
> sure Joe will correct me if I am wrong but a battery should be used
> mostly as a backup or supplement to your alternator. In other words
if
> your Alternator puts out 50 amps (just for numbers) and your lights
+
> winch + cb + whatever takes up 100 amps then your battery is going
to
> take up the slack. (if it can). That is where an Optima fits in.
>
> However I would suggest you consider getting a higher output
alternator
> as well. I believe it possible to run a trail with your 150 watt x 4
> plus rock lights plus AC plus radio plus whatever and drain your
battery
> even though your Jeep is running.
>
> Joey K
> 93YJ
> www.desertjeep.com
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bermboy2000 [mailto:bermboy@h...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 6:39 PM
> > To: az_vjc@y...
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
> >
> >
> > I think a yellow top would probably be better since you have the
> > winch but my red top is fine with a/c rocklights, stereo and air
> > compressor, I guess it depends on houw much use the winch gets.
> >
> > BTW what is ths "AZ_A" Thing?
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., "msa12171" <msa12171@a...> wrote:
> > > Which Optima would be best for a TJ with winch, lights, stereo,
> > > etc.? I might be replacing my batt. real soon and would like to
> > know
> > > which one is the most desired for my application. TIA!
> > >
> > > Mike A.
> > > "Az_A"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
38164 From: msa12171 <msa12171@a...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 6:30am
Subject: Re: I can get the Yellow Top
Do you have any tech info on the yellow top? Is that the best one
for running high draw accesories? What kind of price can you get it
for?
Thanks!
Mike Anderson
--- In az_vjc@y..., hunteroffroad@a... wrote:
> I saw some of you asking about the Yellow Top. I can get them at a
really
> good discount. Normally sell around 169 to 179.. I can get them
for you
> guys for a great discount. Call me at the shop (480-557-7577) or
email me.
>
> John K
> Hunter Offroad
38165 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 6:48am
Subject: RE: Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Thats interesting because Optima recommends their Yellow Top for winching
applications and won't warranty a Red Top that fails if it was used for
winching. A true slow draw Optima would be the Blue Top. The Yellow Top is
rated for starter, lights, and ignition.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Holmes [mailto:niitoyis@w...]
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 7:28 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Group:
It is my humble opinion that the difference between a Deep Cycle (Yellow
Top)
and a Starter (Red Top) battery is the duty cycle. Yellow Top's are
designed
for low, slow draw down and recharge while Red Top's are for large, quick
current draw.
An electric winch draws current in the 450 amp arena during the pull
depending on how close to stall it is or how hard it is pulling. This is
not
the type of usage a Deep Cycle battery is designed for . I can't say what
the end result would be in terms of life expencency for the battery. It may
be that it doesn't really care.
BTW, I have a HYDRAULIC winch, a Red Top Optima and don't run more lights
than the alternator can support.
Gary Holmes
P.S.: I seem to be on a soap box this morning. I have something to say
about everything it seems.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
38166 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 6:48am
Subject: Re: Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Bottom line< IMO...it doesn't really matter much if you go red top or
yellow. I've been running a red top for nearly 3 years, and I winch a lot
(more than most)...with the motor running.
The most important thing is to get an Optima.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "msa12171" <msa12171@a...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 7:26 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
> Thanks for all the input, but if I buy an Optima, which one is best
> for my situation? I understand getting a better (high output)
> alternator, but what about the battery? I still don't know what is
> the best Optima for what I will be using.
>
> Mike A.
> "Az_A"
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...> wrote:
> > Joey,
> >
> > A winch can draw in excess of 400 amps. It draws this from the
> battery as
> > the alternator tries to trickle it back in. Thats why many Jeeps
> run dual
> > batteries so they have more winching capacity. At some point you
> have to
> > give the winching a break to recharge the batteries.
> >
> > For normal operation of lights, CB's, ignition, headlamps, etc you
> should be
> > drawing off the alternator. If your alternator is too small you may
> start
> > draining the battery faster than the alternator can keep it
> charged. In that
> > scenario you want a larger output alternator that can provide the
> amount of
> > juice needed at any time.
> >
> > For most of us that means we need at least a 100 amp alternator to
> get the
> > job done. Obviously bigger is indeed better.
> >
> > Scott K
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 7:43 PM
> > To: az_vjc@y...
> > Cc: 'Joe W'
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
> >
> >
> >
> > I think you guys are thinking of the Optima's in the wrong way. Now
> I am
> > sure Joe will correct me if I am wrong but a battery should be used
> > mostly as a backup or supplement to your alternator. In other words
> if
> > your Alternator puts out 50 amps (just for numbers) and your lights
> +
> > winch + cb + whatever takes up 100 amps then your battery is going
> to
> > take up the slack. (if it can). That is where an Optima fits in.
> >
> > However I would suggest you consider getting a higher output
> alternator
> > as well. I believe it possible to run a trail with your 150 watt x 4
> > plus rock lights plus AC plus radio plus whatever and drain your
> battery
> > even though your Jeep is running.
> >
> > Joey K
> > 93YJ
> > www.desertjeep.com
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: bermboy2000 [mailto:bermboy@h...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 6:39 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@y...
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
> > >
> > >
> > > I think a yellow top would probably be better since you have the
> > > winch but my red top is fine with a/c rocklights, stereo and air
> > > compressor, I guess it depends on houw much use the winch gets.
> > >
> > > BTW what is ths "AZ_A" Thing?
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@y..., "msa12171" <msa12171@a...> wrote:
> > > > Which Optima would be best for a TJ with winch, lights, stereo,
> > > > etc.? I might be replacing my batt. real soon and would like to
> > > know
> > > > which one is the most desired for my application. TIA!
> > > >
> > > > Mike A.
> > > > "Az_A"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
38167 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:19am
Subject: Re: FrUsTrAtiOn!!!
John, make sure you go to Darners and get the club discount that Doug
B set up....
Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., JNB4PLS@a... wrote:
> Thanks Linda,
> I just checked out Stu's site and you are correct. They are the
same. To
> hell with RE and their extended vacation. Off to the dealership.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> John
38168 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:19am
Subject: Re: FrUsTrAtiOn!!!
Think was the key word ;) Thought wrong, huh? :)
Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., linda luik <minihummer@w...> wrote:
> You mean RE came up with their own proprietary rubber bushing
design for
> the long arms? I don't think so! That would drive the cost of the
kit up
> too high and I doubt they have the expertise for that sort of
thing.
>
> Linda
>
> jeepin_in_az wrote:
> >
> > Not in the long arm kit Linda, at least I don't think they do.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., linda luik <minihummer@w...> wrote:
> > > Doesn't RE still use factory rubber bushings?
> > > Linda
> > >
> > > JNB4PLS@a... wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Mike,
> > > >
> > > > I tried ordering RE control arm bushings for my front lowers
> > today since I
> > > > found them to be in as bad a shape as the rears and ran in to
the
> > same thing.
> > > > RE is taking phone calls, but won't take orders until the
second.
> > > > Unbelievable.
> > > >
> > > > John Butler
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
38169 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:37am
Subject: RE: Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Gary,
It was indeed a sad day, IMO, when the marketing people at Optima used the
term "deep cycle" to describe their Yellow Top battery.
I grew up in Minnesota, where we have as many lakes as AZ has rocks in their
washes. ;) A deep cycle battery was, as you describe it, made for trolling
motors. A low continuous amp draw all day long from a little 12 VDC motor.
Likewise, the recharge time was 8 to 12 hours (overnight usually).
However, if you go to the Optima web site and look at the specs on the
Yellow Top battery, it has anything but "deep cycle" characteristics. It
is designed to handle significant amp draws (up to and including those
caused by a winch) and the ability to handle a high and rapid recharge is
also designed into the battery.
Indeed, the Yellow Top battery is designed to source a huge amount of winch
current and then withstand a big beefy alternator's recharge current....time
and time again. And they do spec the number of deep discharge cycles that
you can expect from the Yellow Top.
The Optima marketing people did indeed do their company a disservice by
using the term deep cycle. Luckily, the battery does not perform like the
old style deep cycle batteries that I grew up with.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Holmes [mailto:niitoyis@w...]
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 7:28 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Group:
It is my humble opinion that the difference between a Deep Cycle (Yellow
Top)
and a Starter (Red Top) battery is the duty cycle. Yellow Top's are
designed
for low, slow draw down and recharge while Red Top's are for large, quick
current draw.
An electric winch draws current in the 450 amp arena during the pull
depending on how close to stall it is or how hard it is pulling. This is
not
the type of usage a Deep Cycle battery is designed for . I can't say what
the end result would be in terms of life expencency for the battery. It may
be that it doesn't really care.
BTW, I have a HYDRAULIC winch, a Red Top Optima and don't run more lights
than the alternator can support.
Gary Holmes
P.S.: I seem to be on a soap box this morning. I have something to say
about everything it seems.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
38170 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:38am
Subject: RE: Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Yellow, or the deep cycle rated Blue....they are the same battery with
different colored cases.
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: msa12171 [mailto:msa12171@a...]
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 7:27 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Thanks for all the input, but if I buy an Optima, which one is best
for my situation? I understand getting a better (high output)
alternator, but what about the battery? I still don't know what is
the best Optima for what I will be using.
Mike A.
"Az_A"
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...> wrote:
> Joey,
>
> A winch can draw in excess of 400 amps. It draws this from the
battery as
> the alternator tries to trickle it back in. Thats why many Jeeps
run dual
> batteries so they have more winching capacity. At some point you
have to
> give the winching a break to recharge the batteries.
>
> For normal operation of lights, CB's, ignition, headlamps, etc you
should be
> drawing off the alternator. If your alternator is too small you may
start
> draining the battery faster than the alternator can keep it
charged. In that
> scenario you want a larger output alternator that can provide the
amount of
> juice needed at any time.
>
> For most of us that means we need at least a 100 amp alternator to
get the
> job done. Obviously bigger is indeed better.
>
> Scott K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 7:43 PM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Cc: 'Joe W'
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
>
>
>
> I think you guys are thinking of the Optima's in the wrong way. Now
I am
> sure Joe will correct me if I am wrong but a battery should be used
> mostly as a backup or supplement to your alternator. In other words
if
> your Alternator puts out 50 amps (just for numbers) and your lights
+
> winch + cb + whatever takes up 100 amps then your battery is going
to
> take up the slack. (if it can). That is where an Optima fits in.
>
> However I would suggest you consider getting a higher output
alternator
> as well. I believe it possible to run a trail with your 150 watt x 4
> plus rock lights plus AC plus radio plus whatever and drain your
battery
> even though your Jeep is running.
>
> Joey K
> 93YJ
> www.desertjeep.com
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bermboy2000 [mailto:bermboy@h...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 6:39 PM
> > To: az_vjc@y...
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
> >
> >
> > I think a yellow top would probably be better since you have the
> > winch but my red top is fine with a/c rocklights, stereo and air
> > compressor, I guess it depends on houw much use the winch gets.
> >
> > BTW what is ths "AZ_A" Thing?
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., "msa12171" <msa12171@a...> wrote:
> > > Which Optima would be best for a TJ with winch, lights, stereo,
> > > etc.? I might be replacing my batt. real soon and would like to
> > know
> > > which one is the most desired for my application. TIA!
> > >
> > > Mike A.
> > > "Az_A"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
38171 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:40am
Subject: RE: Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Time for all to go to the Optima web site and read the specs, IMHO. The
facts are beginning to get diluted with non-facts. ;)
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@e...]
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 7:48 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Thats interesting because Optima recommends their Yellow Top for winching
applications and won't warranty a Red Top that fails if it was used for
winching. A true slow draw Optima would be the Blue Top. The Yellow Top is
rated for starter, lights, and ignition.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Holmes [mailto:niitoyis@w...]
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 7:28 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Group:
It is my humble opinion that the difference between a Deep Cycle (Yellow
Top)
and a Starter (Red Top) battery is the duty cycle. Yellow Top's are
designed
for low, slow draw down and recharge while Red Top's are for large, quick
current draw.
An electric winch draws current in the 450 amp arena during the pull
depending on how close to stall it is or how hard it is pulling. This is
not
the type of usage a Deep Cycle battery is designed for . I can't say what
the end result would be in terms of life expencency for the battery. It may
be that it doesn't really care.
BTW, I have a HYDRAULIC winch, a Red Top Optima and don't run more lights
than the alternator can support.
Gary Holmes
P.S.: I seem to be on a soap box this morning. I have something to say
about everything it seems.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
38172 From: Joe W <arizonajeep@h...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:56am
Subject: RE: Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
I've run a red top for the past couple of years myself... no problems yet!
Joe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@h...]
> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 7:49 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
>
>
> Bottom line< IMO...it doesn't really matter much if you go red top or
> yellow. I've been running a red top for nearly 3 years, and I
> winch a lot
> (more than most)...with the motor running.
>
> The most important thing is to get an Optima.
>
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "msa12171" <msa12171@a...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 7:26 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
>
>
> > Thanks for all the input, but if I buy an Optima, which one is best
> > for my situation? I understand getting a better (high output)
> > alternator, but what about the battery? I still don't know what is
> > the best Optima for what I will be using.
> >
> > Mike A.
> > "Az_A"
> >
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...> wrote:
> > > Joey,
> > >
> > > A winch can draw in excess of 400 amps. It draws this from the
> > battery as
> > > the alternator tries to trickle it back in. Thats why many Jeeps
> > run dual
> > > batteries so they have more winching capacity. At some point you
> > have to
> > > give the winching a break to recharge the batteries.
> > >
> > > For normal operation of lights, CB's, ignition, headlamps, etc you
> > should be
> > > drawing off the alternator. If your alternator is too
> small you may
> > start
> > > draining the battery faster than the alternator can keep it
> > charged. In that
> > > scenario you want a larger output alternator that can provide the
> > amount of
> > > juice needed at any time.
> > >
> > > For most of us that means we need at least a 100 amp alternator to
> > get the
> > > job done. Obviously bigger is indeed better.
> > >
> > > Scott K
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 7:43 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@y...
> > > Cc: 'Joe W'
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I think you guys are thinking of the Optima's in the
> wrong way. Now
> > I am
> > > sure Joe will correct me if I am wrong but a battery
> should be used
> > > mostly as a backup or supplement to your alternator. In
> other words
> > if
> > > your Alternator puts out 50 amps (just for numbers) and
> your lights
> > +
> > > winch + cb + whatever takes up 100 amps then your battery is going
> > to
> > > take up the slack. (if it can). That is where an Optima fits in.
> > >
> > > However I would suggest you consider getting a higher output
> > alternator
> > > as well. I believe it possible to run a trail with your
> 150 watt x 4
> > > plus rock lights plus AC plus radio plus whatever and drain your
> > battery
> > > even though your Jeep is running.
> > >
> > > Joey K
> > > 93YJ
> > > www.desertjeep.com
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: bermboy2000 [mailto:bermboy@h...]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 6:39 PM
> > > > To: az_vjc@y...
> > > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I think a yellow top would probably be better since you have the
> > > > winch but my red top is fine with a/c rocklights, stereo and air
> > > > compressor, I guess it depends on houw much use the winch gets.
> > > >
> > > > BTW what is ths "AZ_A" Thing?
> > > >
> > > > --- In az_vjc@y..., "msa12171" <msa12171@a...> wrote:
> > > > > Which Optima would be best for a TJ with winch,
> lights, stereo,
> > > > > etc.? I might be replacing my batt. real soon and
> would like to
> > > > know
> > > > > which one is the most desired for my application. TIA!
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike A.
> > > > > "Az_A"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
38173 From: AzVJC Website <Mike@A...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:59am
Subject: [TR] Trip Report - Lake Pleasant to Crown King - Monday, December 24, 2001
Hello All,
Mike Chatfield lead a trail run Monday, December 24, 2001 across Lake Pleasant to Crown King
Well there was just two jeeps; Brian Hill in his XJ and my wife, the kids and I in our CJ. Since this was more of a run to see the scenery and get to the snow, we skipped all of the "hard stuff." Some sections of the main trail have been chewed up and there are some good sized holes. Brian had no trouble picking the right line for his stock XJ and only needed a little spotting over the ledge just before Oro Belle.
It took us roughly 3 hours to reach the top, only stopping twice along the way (once after all of the washboard dirt road, and once at Burro John's place), where the kids got a chance to play in the frozen snow. We then headed on in to Crown King to get some fudge.
Trip Attendees:
Mike Chatfield
Click Here to View Pictures (if available)
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
38174 From: Fred <fredtj@h...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 8:06am
Subject: Re: Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Yup, people are getting too caught up in the "words" or verbage. As you
mentioned Stu, the Yellow Top (and the "deep cycle" Blue Top), is
designed to be rapidly drawn low and recharged, either slowly or
rapidly, many times, unlike a "normal" lead/acid "starting" style
battery. We all know what's being described and talked about. Call it
what one wishes, but let's not get hung up on the words, as, a friend
once said, "it's syntatic sugar" ;)
Cheers :),
Fred
Stu Olson wrote:
>Gary,
>
>It was indeed a sad day, IMO, when the marketing people at Optima used the
>term "deep cycle" to describe their Yellow Top battery.
>
>I grew up in Minnesota, where we have as many lakes as AZ has rocks in their
>washes. ;) A deep cycle battery was, as you describe it, made for trolling
>motors. A low continuous amp draw all day long from a little 12 VDC motor.
>Likewise, the recharge time was 8 to 12 hours (overnight usually).
>
>However, if you go to the Optima web site and look at the specs on the
>Yellow Top battery, it has anything but "deep cycle" characteristics. It
>is designed to handle significant amp draws (up to and including those
>caused by a winch) and the ability to handle a high and rapid recharge is
>also designed into the battery.
>
>Indeed, the Yellow Top battery is designed to source a huge amount of winch
>current and then withstand a big beefy alternator's recharge current....time
>and time again. And they do spec the number of deep discharge cycles that
>you can expect from the Yellow Top.
>
>The Optima marketing people did indeed do their company a disservice by
>using the term deep cycle. Luckily, the battery does not perform like the
>old style deep cycle batteries that I grew up with.
>
>Stu
>
>Stu Olson
>www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Gary Holmes [mailto:niitoyis@w...]
>Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 7:28 AM
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
>
>
>Group:
>
>It is my humble opinion that the difference between a Deep Cycle (Yellow
>Top)
>and a Starter (Red Top) battery is the duty cycle. Yellow Top's are
>designed
>for low, slow draw down and recharge while Red Top's are for large, quick
>current draw.
>
>An electric winch draws current in the 450 amp arena during the pull
>depending on how close to stall it is or how hard it is pulling. This is
>not
>the type of usage a Deep Cycle battery is designed for . I can't say what
>the end result would be in terms of life expencency for the battery. It may
>be that it doesn't really care.
>
>BTW, I have a HYDRAULIC winch, a Red Top Optima and don't run more lights
>than the alternator can support.
>
>Gary Holmes
>
>P.S.: I seem to be on a soap box this morning. I have something to say
>about everything it seems.
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
38175 From: <hunteroffroad@a...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 3:05am
Subject: Re: OPTIMA QUESTION
Stu has nailed alot of the issues on the head. But here is some more food for thought
A couple of years ago I was able to sit down and talk to a group of engieneers from Optima. So my info is not from the web page or book, its straight from the guys who builds them and designs them. NO marketing goofys here. Yup the Blue and Yellow are the same, just different marketing. The Yellow top gets its cliam of deep cycle battery becuase of its ablity to support heavy deep draws. (ie. wiching) The red top is a great battery. But if you want a great got have to kick *** battery, or do run a winch alot or want to be sure/sure, A yellow top would be a nice up grade. Here is something to think about, The yellow top weighs more than the red by about 10 to 15 lbs. That alot of extra lead and gel to help maintian its power
well, there is my .02 cents and extra log to the fire
John K
38176 From: az_jeeper_mike <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 8:11am
Subject: Re: So what did everyone get for christmas
A little "super glue" in the gears locks 'em up pretty good ;)
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "DougB" <azjeep@h...> wrote:
> I got a new Jeep!.....remote control, 4x4.... Anyone know where
I can get
> lockers for it??
>
> Doug
>
38177 From: Scott Thomas <sthomas@a...>
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2001 8:25am
Subject: RE: next mod ordered today
Hey Les,
Hey did you just order those directly from MORE or thru another rep? If
thru MORE, do they have a web site were I can look at there products and
pricing?
Thank,
Scott Thomas
97' Tj
-----Original Message-----
From: paparoach85251 [mailto:lespaparoach@m...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 3:26 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] next mod ordered today
I just ordered the MORE 1" body lift and 1" motor mounts for the TJ.
This should alleviate any tire rubbing as well as allow me to move
the transfer case back up. They should ship early next week. I will
post when they arrive to ask for advice/help with the install.
BTW, MORE is having a sale now through Dec 31st.
Les
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