blooddrive
01-04-2004, 09:06 AM
37477-37501
37477 From: jeepfanatic97 <itsajeepthing@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 2:14pm
Subject: Re: Macromotive Discount Question
You know I didn't even bother to get his name.....He did an inventory
check for me at the local stores and none of them had what I was
looking for so i was stuck to the i-net anyways......But it is good
to know that In the future I won't have to wait and pay for the
shipping. I think I just got an Unknowledgeable sale's person!!3
Thanks
Rob
--- In az_vjc@y..., "jetowle2000" <James.Towle@a...> wrote:
> Who, what is the persons name, that you talked to?
> They honor the club discount at the stores.
>
> ....Tony from ORU are you listening now. I know you listen in....
>
> We have been through this several times before, how frustrating. If
> you would like to have it from the store you can get it. It is up
to
> you.
> If I can help let me know.
>
> --James
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "jeepfanatic97" <itsajeepthing@a...> wrote:
> > I'm looking to buy some stuff off of Macromotive.com but when i
> > called them they told me to use the discount i have to do
everthing
> > online ........when i'm online i don't see any where to put our
> club
> > acct # in at......Can some one please help me out on this.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Rob
> > 97 TJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
37478 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 2:25pm
Subject: GUNS: Let's move this discussion to the Arizona Virtual Gun Club... az_vgc
To subscribe send an email to az_vgc-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Post message: az_vgc@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: az_vgc-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: az_vgc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
List owner: az_vgc-owner@yahoogroups.com
************************************************** **************************
****************************
*Some days it just isn't worth the effort to gnaw through the restraints and
clamber up out of the pit.*
************************************************** **************************
****************************
37479 From: Scott Maiden <bermboy@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 2:50pm
Subject: NEED A Dana 35 yoke
Anyone have a Dana 35 (1310 series) yoke laying around? I broke one of the nubs that holds the u-joint cap in place (don't ask me how???) and I need one. Also anyone know what all is involved in changing one? I am guessing that you just take the big nut off and slide the yoke out but is there some trick? Thanks in advance, e-mail or call me at 480 236-5090
Scott "Iron" Maiden
93 Green YJ SOA
01 GSX-R 750....o~`o
http://www.scottmaiden.gixxer.com
bermboy@hotmail.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.
37480 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 3:08pm
Subject: Re: GUNS: Let's move this discussion to the Arizona Virtual Gun Club... az_vgc
Thanks Joe!
Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "JW" <joew@a...> wrote:
> To subscribe send an email to az_vgc-subscribe@y...
>
> Post message: az_vgc@y...
> Subscribe: az_vgc-subscribe@y...
> Unsubscribe: az_vgc-unsubscribe@y...
> List owner: az_vgc-owner@y...
>
>
>
>
>
************************************************** ********************
******
> ****************************
> *Some days it just isn't worth the effort to gnaw through the
restraints and
> clamber up out of the pit.*
>
************************************************** ********************
******
> ****************************
37481 From: Nick <nnote@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 3:13pm
Subject: Clutch fixed
Big thanks To Shaun P. For helping me bleed my clutch. It feels fresh and new now!
Nick
37482 From: Jake Wagner <jakewagner@y...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 3:22pm
Subject: Auto Respond
Scott:
Is there any way to turn off your "Auto Respond" on
your e-mail accounts? I think you've posted more in
the last 3 days than the rest of the club! Must be a
marriage thing, I wouldn't know from experience :)
I'll go back to being a lurker. "It's the quiet Ones
you gotta watch" - George Carlin
Bobberman
P.S. I think you still suffer from S.H.S. you seem
to ponder upon your YJ days very often <BIG GRIN>
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:19:18 -0700
From: "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...>
Subject: RE: ........GUNS----->Please read this
Good point. In this scenario you probably were within
your legal rights
to
protect your family from harm. Had they proceeded to
try to run over
your
kids I doubt there is a jury anywhere (except maybe in
California) that
wouldn't acquit you.
These are the types of scenarios that never show up in
the propaganda
statistics put out by the Gun Control people. They
like to only show
information regarding actual shootings of children,
etc wihtout
including
the number of lives that are saved evey year by guns
that are never
even
fired. But again, this is another debate.
Scott K
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
37483 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 3:42pm
Subject: Re: Re: Macromotive Discount Question
When you want to buy something in the store at ORU, your best bet is to go
to the website and print out the page that shows the item number and our
price. Then take that in to the store. Then they do not have to look up a
part number or price. Saves them time and you hassles.
Chris K
> From: "jeepfanatic97" <itsajeepthing@a...>
> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 22:14:29 -0000
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Macromotive Discount Question
>
> You know I didn't even bother to get his name.....He did an inventory
> check for me at the local stores and none of them had what I was
> looking for so i was stuck to the i-net anyways......But it is good
> to know that In the future I won't have to wait and pay for the
> shipping. I think I just got an Unknowledgeable sale's person!!3
>
> Thanks
> Rob
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "jetowle2000" <James.Towle@a...> wrote:
>> Who, what is the persons name, that you talked to?
>> They honor the club discount at the stores.
>>
>> ....Tony from ORU are you listening now. I know you listen in....
>>
>> We have been through this several times before, how frustrating. If
>> you would like to have it from the store you can get it. It is up
> to
>> you.
>> If I can help let me know.
>>
>> --James
>>
>> --- In az_vjc@y..., "jeepfanatic97" <itsajeepthing@a...> wrote:
>>> I'm looking to buy some stuff off of Macromotive.com but when i
>>> called them they told me to use the discount i have to do
> everthing
>>> online ........when i'm online i don't see any where to put our
>> club
>>> acct # in at......Can some one please help me out on this.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Rob
>>> 97 TJ
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
37484 From: sinanturel <sinanturel@y...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 3:45pm
Subject: Re: Any word on that girl who was hurt out at Chiva Falls this past weekend?
some brousing around and found it at
www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19490
And it now looks like it may Chivo Falls
Hopeing for the best !
Sinan
--- In az_vjc@y..., "sinanturel" <sinanturel@y...> wrote:
> There is/was a theard on another board, about a girl/woman lossing
> some fingers in a roll over/tip over .
> But the loacatin was not clear to me, but close to CHIxxxx .
>
> Sinan
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "David R. W. Withers" <dr_ww@h...> wrote:
> > Inform us all please
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Fred [mailto:fredtj@h...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:26 PM
> > To: jeeperaz
> > Cc: az_vjc@y...
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Any word on that girl who was hurt out at
> Chiva
> > Falls this past weekend?
> >
> >
> > Never heard anything that happened. What was it. A wheel'n
accident
> ?
> >
> > Fred
> >
> > jeeperaz wrote:
> >
> > >Just curious if anyone knows how she is doing.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
37485 From: Gary Holmes <niitoyis@w...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 3:49pm
Subject: Re: Fire Extinquisher
Mike and Crew:
I went to Roadrunner Fire Extinguisher etc. company recently and picked up
used (but guaranteed) 5 lb. fire extinguishers for approx. $32.00 each. Put
2 in the Camo Cow. Can't have enough fire extinguishers when you need them
(from personal experience.)
Gary Holmes
Yeah, they were fully charged!
jeepin_in_az wrote:
> Just got back from Sam's Club (I gotta stay away from there!), and
> picked up a 2 pack of 2.5 lbs fire extinquishers for $17. That is
> pretty cheap from what I have seen. I am going to wrap mine up and
> put it under the tree, "To: Mike, From: Santa!"
>
> Mike Baney
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
37486 From: Jason B <the_anubis@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 3:49pm
Subject: Re: ........GUNS----->Please read this
Ok who's glove box is it going to fit in? Really?
-Jason
92 YJ
From: "Chris benner" <cbenner@t...>
To: "Nick" <nnote@a...>, <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>, "sinclare_jon"
<sinclare_jon@y...>, "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...>
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 12:40:37 -0600
Stupid question,
I'm not a gun owner but I'd be very concerned about all the bouncing around
while wheelin. Isn't that a concerning factor in bring a piece with you?
Where would be the safest place to keep it? I see horrible images of it
going off in the glovebox.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...>
To: "Nick" <nnote@a...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>; "sinclare_jon"
<sinclare_jon@y...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:37 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
> Nick,
>
> Why do you call them "ATF people"? The ATF is the Bureau of Alcohol,
> Tobacco, and Firearms. Their job is to enforce gun laws (though they
often
> times get over zealous). I doubt that you would see them out behaving in
the
> manner you describe. I think the word "yahoos" would be more appropriate.
>
> Scott K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nick [mailto:nnote@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:18 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; sinclare_jon
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
>
>
> More than once while wheeling I've come across a group of ATF people, you
> know, smoking drinking and shooting guns. It makes me nervous as hell
and
I
> do plan on getting my own gun to carry someday.
> There was an article in the paper the other day about this. The author
was
> writing that he always carried his gun at night but on this particular
night
> he wasn't. He got cut off by a driver and when he gave the guy the
finger,
> the other driver flashed a gun at him. He said that in reallity he was
glad
> he had forgotten his gun that day because the situation could have very
> easily escalated into someone getting shot. It's just another
interesting
> view of what may happen. If those ATF people had seen a gun on me it
could
> have frightened them into pointing theirs at me.
> On the other hand, when I went hiking into four peaks a couple of
weekends
> ago, I had a shotgun with me, and it made me feel more secure. Not for
> people but because it is a prime bear habitat.
> Nick
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "sinclare_jon" <sinclare_jon@y...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:03 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
>
>
> > what do you all think?
> > I've been wheeling in Arizona for about a year now. I wheel alone and
> > I go as far from the main roads as I can go. I explore and take
> > pictures.
> > I've met more than one jeep driver that carries. I don't, but the
> > last guy I met said I need to if I expect to stay unscathed. His
> > point is when the bad guys see you have a piece they move on.
> >
> > So the question is: What do you carry and where?
> >
> > thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Jason Blank
www.geeks-2serveu.com
Computer On-Site Service & Sales - On-Line Service Requests
Ziggy (TAG)Adopted Kizzy (CAG) Fosterd
Pokey (RB) CatFood & Cloud(keets)
Cookies $ Cream (Breeding Zebra Finches)
Scar (Thinks he's a Person (CAT))
And Last but not least..."GEEP" YJ
__________________________________________________ _______________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
37487 From: Sullivan, Len <kermit@e...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 3:52pm
Subject: RE: ........GUNS----->Please read this
Hi all
There has been a .357 in my Jeep EVERY time it has had dirt under it's
wheels....my gun is kinda like my American Express card. I too have had a
situation that was "defused" by the prescence of a firearm -- If anybody
wants to hear about it I'll post it later.
Regarding the "going off in the glove box" question: I'm sure that most (if
not all of us) carry or store our weapons with the chamber empty while
Jeeping. That and a padded case or holster will prevent unintended
discharges due to bouncing and jouncing. Speed of presentation while inside
a vehicle isn't that big a deal to me.....if I'm threatened while I'm in my
Jeep I'll use the biggest weapon I have. It weighs 5500 lbs and is painted
John Deere Green!!!
Len
On Tuesday, December 18, 2001 3:11 PM, Siade, Randy
[SMTP:randy.siade@u...] wrote:
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fred [mailto:fredtj@h...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 3:07 PM
> To: Siade, Randy
> Cc: joew@a...; 'Scott Kruize'; 'Nick'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> 'sinclare_jon'
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
>
>
37488 From: Tom LaFrance <tlafrance@j...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 3:54pm
Subject: Guns and self defense
Only when someone is about to kill you (or a 3rd party) can you use
deadly force to prevent their actions.
You may ONLY threaten the use of deadly force to prevent criminal
trespass.
Anything else can be considered brandishing under the disorderly conduct
code and is a class 6 felony with an average sentence of 3 years in
prison.
JW: A SIG 220 only carries 8 + 1, thats 1 more than my revo :-) I'll
take you up on some friendly competition anytime to change your mind
regarding reloading with speed loaders as well. BTW you can chose which
hand I use to make it fair :-p
Tom LaFrance
37489 From: lynch <lynch@v...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:10pm
Subject: Re: Fire Extinquisher
Gary and Mike:
On both of your extinguishers, were they CO2 or the ABC dry type? I believe
the ABC type can corrode electronics and such, can anyone verify this?
Regards,
lynch
On Tue, Dec 18, 2001 at 04:49:38PM -0700, Gary Holmes wrote:
> Mike and Crew:
>
> I went to Roadrunner Fire Extinguisher etc. company recently and picked up
> used (but guaranteed) 5 lb. fire extinguishers for approx. $32.00 each. Put
> 2 in the Camo Cow. Can't have enough fire extinguishers when you need them
> (from personal experience.)
>
> Gary Holmes
>
> Yeah, they were fully charged!
>
> jeepin_in_az wrote:
>
> > Just got back from Sam's Club (I gotta stay away from there!), and
> > picked up a 2 pack of 2.5 lbs fire extinquishers for $17. That is
> > pretty cheap from what I have seen. I am going to wrap mine up and
> > put it under the tree, "To: Mike, From: Santa!"
> >
> > Mike Baney
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
37490 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:20pm
Subject: RE: Auto Respond
Jake,
By default Microsoft turns the receipts feature on in Outlook 2000 when it
is installed. If it bothers you there are 2 things you can do. Yell at the
sender to turn it off or go into your e-mail client options and turn it off
so that your e-mail client ignores them. I've recently installed Windows XP
and Office 2000 so I hadn't turned it off yet. In response to Bill's
question about it last night I turned it off. I recommend you go into your
client and turn off acknowledgements as well.
Hope this helps :)
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Jake Wagner [mailto:jakewagner@y...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 4:23 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Auto Respond
Scott:
Is there any way to turn off your "Auto Respond" on
your e-mail accounts? I think you've posted more in
the last 3 days than the rest of the club! Must be a
marriage thing, I wouldn't know from experience :)
I'll go back to being a lurker. "It's the quiet Ones
you gotta watch" - George Carlin
Bobberman
P.S. I think you still suffer from S.H.S. you seem
to ponder upon your YJ days very often <BIG GRIN>
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:19:18 -0700
From: "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...>
Subject: RE: ........GUNS----->Please read this
Good point. In this scenario you probably were within
your legal rights
to
protect your family from harm. Had they proceeded to
try to run over
your
kids I doubt there is a jury anywhere (except maybe in
California) that
wouldn't acquit you.
These are the types of scenarios that never show up in
the propaganda
statistics put out by the Gun Control people. They
like to only show
information regarding actual shootings of children,
etc wihtout
including
the number of lives that are saved evey year by guns
that are never
even
fired. But again, this is another debate.
Scott K
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
37491 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:22pm
Subject: RE: ........GUNS----->Please read this
Joe,
Howdy! YEEEEEEHAWWWW
Scott - Card carrying NRA member too
-----Original Message-----
From: JW [mailto:joew@a...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 2:03 PM
To: 'Scott Kruize'; 'Siade, Randy'; 'Nick'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
'sinclare_jon'
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
No probably about it... if these guys had continued to threaten Randy's wife
and children with a deadly weapon (the vehicle), Randy would have been
within his legal rights to use deadly force to stop the driver.
Hopefully, Tom will speak out on this thread, but, having just taken a CCW
class this topic is fresh in my mind.
It is legal to display and threaten to use (in Arizona anyway) a weapon to
protect a third party (in this case, Randy's family) from deadly force. It
would have been legal for me or anyone else to protect Randy's family as
well.
Scott has touched on a number of great points (kudos Scott).
There was a time when I would have argued that having a weapon is just plain
not needed since statistically, you will probably never have occasion to use
it to protect yourself...
When the Indian gas station attendant died by being shot dead two blocks
from my house in Mesa at the gas station that I go to twice a week... and I
was going there to get gas just after he was shot and I saw the police just
pulling up... my mind was changed forever.
If I had been at the gas station 5 minutes earlier, I would have been there
at the time of the shooting. Had I been there, and had to stand idly by and
watch a man get shot to death; it would have caused me no end of grief.
I signed up for a concealed carry class and purchased my .45 sig a few days
later.
I hope that I never need to use my weapon... but if I ever encounter a
situation where I need it, I will not hesitate a nanosecond to use it.
Kind Regards,
Joe West
PS. I joined the NRA to support their efforts to help ensure our second
amendment rights are never violated by our own government... I guess this
makes me a red-neck engineering geek. <grin>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@e...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:19 PM
> To: Siade, Randy; 'Nick'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; sinclare_jon
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
>
>
> Good point. In this scenario you probably were within your
> legal rights to
> protect your family from harm. Had they proceeded to try to
> run over your
> kids I doubt there is a jury anywhere (except maybe in
> California) that
> wouldn't acquit you.
>
> These are the types of scenarios that never show up in the propaganda
> statistics put out by the Gun Control people. They like to only show
> information regarding actual shootings of children, etc
> wihtout including
> the number of lives that are saved evey year by guns that are
> never even
> fired. But again, this is another debate.
>
> Scott K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Siade, Randy [mailto:randy.siade@u...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:08 PM
> To: 'Nick'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; sinclare_jon
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
>
>
> Here is a true story at the coves. I took my wife and kids to
> the first
> cover for some recreation swimming and fishing. My kids are
> in the water
> playing with my wife close by when these drunk guys in a jeep
> come down the
> big hill and want to travel through the water where my kids
> are playing.
> They tell my wife to move the kids out of the way or they
> will run them
> over. My wife stepped in between them and the kids. They
> start yelling and
> moving forward. In the mean time I had pulled my 9mm out
> walked up to them
> and they yelled at me to get my wife and kids out of the way
> or they where
> going to run them over. I calmly pulled my 9mm out and told
> them the "I have
> a 9mm says you don't". They decided to go around another way.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nick [mailto:nnote@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:18 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; sinclare_jon
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
>
>
> More than once while wheeling I've come across a group of ATF
> people, you
> know, smoking drinking and shooting guns. It makes me
> nervous as hell and I
> do plan on getting my own gun to carry someday.
> There was an article in the paper the other day about this.
> The author was
> writing that he always carried his gun at night but on this
> particular night
> he wasn't. He got cut off by a driver and when he gave the
> guy the finger,
> the other driver flashed a gun at him. He said that in
> reallity he was glad
> he had forgotten his gun that day because the situation could
> have very
> easily escalated into someone getting shot. It's just
> another interesting
> view of what may happen. If those ATF people had seen a gun
> on me it could
> have frightened them into pointing theirs at me.
> On the other hand, when I went hiking into four peaks a
> couple of weekends
> ago, I had a shotgun with me, and it made me feel more
> secure. Not for
> people but because it is a prime bear habitat.
> Nick
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "sinclare_jon" <sinclare_jon@y...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:03 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
>
>
> > what do you all think?
> > I've been wheeling in Arizona for about a year now. I wheel
> alone and
> > I go as far from the main roads as I can go. I explore and take
> > pictures.
> > I've met more than one jeep driver that carries. I don't, but the
> > last guy I met said I need to if I expect to stay unscathed. His
> > point is when the bad guys see you have a piece they move on.
> >
> > So the question is: What do you carry and where?
> >
> > thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
37492 From: kcvehr <kc@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:19pm
Subject: Re: ........GUNS----->Please read this
My personal preferance is for a .40 S&W Sig. It's a high quality and
dependable weapon. I Have been carrying a concealed weapon permit
for the past 4 years (time to renew) and I personally feel much safer
with it at hand. The .40 S&W is a good knock down caliber (at least
for 2 legged threats) and the auto makes for a quick reload. As to
where at work it's on my leg (actually that's a Kahr, but still .40)
most of the rest of the time it will be in afanny pack or on my waidt
under a jacket.
KC Vehr
--- In az_vjc@y..., "sinclare_jon" <sinclare_jon@y...> wrote:
> what do you all think?
> I've been wheeling in Arizona for about a year now. I wheel alone
and
> I go as far from the main roads as I can go. I explore and take
> pictures.
> I've met more than one jeep driver that carries. I don't, but the
> last guy I met said I need to if I expect to stay unscathed. His
> point is when the bad guys see you have a piece they move on.
>
> So the question is: What do you carry and where?
>
> thanks
37493 From: Joe W <arizonajeep@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:23pm
Subject: RE: ........GUNS----->Please read this
Scott, et. al,
Make sure you sign up for the gun group... we'll continue this discussion
there.
Joe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@e...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 5:22 PM
> To: joew@a...; 'Siade, Randy'; 'Nick';
> az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> 'sinclare_jon'
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
>
>
> Joe,
>
> Howdy! YEEEEEEHAWWWW
>
> Scott - Card carrying NRA member too
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JW [mailto:joew@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 2:03 PM
> To: 'Scott Kruize'; 'Siade, Randy'; 'Nick'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> 'sinclare_jon'
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
>
>
> No probably about it... if these guys had continued to
> threaten Randy's wife
> and children with a deadly weapon (the vehicle), Randy would have been
> within his legal rights to use deadly force to stop the driver.
>
> Hopefully, Tom will speak out on this thread, but, having
> just taken a CCW
> class this topic is fresh in my mind.
> It is legal to display and threaten to use (in Arizona
> anyway) a weapon to
> protect a third party (in this case, Randy's family) from
> deadly force. It
> would have been legal for me or anyone else to protect
> Randy's family as
> well.
>
> Scott has touched on a number of great points (kudos Scott).
>
> There was a time when I would have argued that having a
> weapon is just plain
> not needed since statistically, you will probably never have
> occasion to use
> it to protect yourself...
>
> When the Indian gas station attendant died by being shot dead
> two blocks
> from my house in Mesa at the gas station that I go to twice a
> week... and I
> was going there to get gas just after he was shot and I saw
> the police just
> pulling up... my mind was changed forever.
>
> If I had been at the gas station 5 minutes earlier, I would
> have been there
> at the time of the shooting. Had I been there, and had to
> stand idly by and
> watch a man get shot to death; it would have caused me no end
> of grief.
>
> I signed up for a concealed carry class and purchased my .45
> sig a few days
> later.
>
> I hope that I never need to use my weapon... but if I ever encounter a
> situation where I need it, I will not hesitate a nanosecond to use it.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Joe West
>
> PS. I joined the NRA to support their efforts to help ensure
> our second
> amendment rights are never violated by our own government...
> I guess this
> makes me a red-neck engineering geek. <grin>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@e...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:19 PM
> > To: Siade, Randy; 'Nick'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; sinclare_jon
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
> >
> >
> > Good point. In this scenario you probably were within your
> > legal rights to
> > protect your family from harm. Had they proceeded to try to
> > run over your
> > kids I doubt there is a jury anywhere (except maybe in
> > California) that
> > wouldn't acquit you.
> >
> > These are the types of scenarios that never show up in the
> propaganda
> > statistics put out by the Gun Control people. They like to only show
> > information regarding actual shootings of children, etc
> > wihtout including
> > the number of lives that are saved evey year by guns that are
> > never even
> > fired. But again, this is another debate.
> >
> > Scott K
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Siade, Randy [mailto:randy.siade@u...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:08 PM
> > To: 'Nick'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; sinclare_jon
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
> >
> >
> > Here is a true story at the coves. I took my wife and kids to
> > the first
> > cover for some recreation swimming and fishing. My kids are
> > in the water
> > playing with my wife close by when these drunk guys in a jeep
> > come down the
> > big hill and want to travel through the water where my kids
> > are playing.
> > They tell my wife to move the kids out of the way or they
> > will run them
> > over. My wife stepped in between them and the kids. They
> > start yelling and
> > moving forward. In the mean time I had pulled my 9mm out
> > walked up to them
> > and they yelled at me to get my wife and kids out of the way
> > or they where
> > going to run them over. I calmly pulled my 9mm out and told
> > them the "I have
> > a 9mm says you don't". They decided to go around another way.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nick [mailto:nnote@a...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:18 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; sinclare_jon
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
> >
> >
> > More than once while wheeling I've come across a group of ATF
> > people, you
> > know, smoking drinking and shooting guns. It makes me
> > nervous as hell and I
> > do plan on getting my own gun to carry someday.
> > There was an article in the paper the other day about this.
> > The author was
> > writing that he always carried his gun at night but on this
> > particular night
> > he wasn't. He got cut off by a driver and when he gave the
> > guy the finger,
> > the other driver flashed a gun at him. He said that in
> > reallity he was glad
> > he had forgotten his gun that day because the situation could
> > have very
> > easily escalated into someone getting shot. It's just
> > another interesting
> > view of what may happen. If those ATF people had seen a gun
> > on me it could
> > have frightened them into pointing theirs at me.
> > On the other hand, when I went hiking into four peaks a
> > couple of weekends
> > ago, I had a shotgun with me, and it made me feel more
> > secure. Not for
> > people but because it is a prime bear habitat.
> > Nick
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "sinclare_jon" <sinclare_jon@y...>
> > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:03 PM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
> >
> >
> > > what do you all think?
> > > I've been wheeling in Arizona for about a year now. I wheel
> > alone and
> > > I go as far from the main roads as I can go. I explore and take
> > > pictures.
> > > I've met more than one jeep driver that carries. I don't, but the
> > > last guy I met said I need to if I expect to stay unscathed. His
> > > point is when the bad guys see you have a piece they move on.
> > >
> > > So the question is: What do you carry and where?
> > >
> > > thanks
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
37494 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:26pm
Subject: RE: Re: ........GUNS----->Please read this
Why own anything other than a glock for an automatic.
-----Original Message-----
From: kcvehr [mailto:kc@a...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 5:19 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: ........GUNS----->Please read this
My personal preferance is for a .40 S&W Sig. It's a high quality and
dependable weapon. I Have been carrying a concealed weapon permit for
the past 4 years (time to renew) and I personally feel much safer with
it at hand. The .40 S&W is a good knock down caliber (at least for 2
legged threats) and the auto makes for a quick reload. As to where at
work it's on my leg (actually that's a Kahr, but still .40) most of the
rest of the time it will be in afanny pack or on my waidt under a
jacket.
KC Vehr
--- In az_vjc@y..., "sinclare_jon" <sinclare_jon@y...> wrote:
> what do you all think?
> I've been wheeling in Arizona for about a year now. I wheel alone
and
> I go as far from the main roads as I can go. I explore and take
> pictures. I've met more than one jeep driver that carries. I don't,
> but the last guy I met said I need to if I expect to stay unscathed.
> His point is when the bad guys see you have a piece they move on.
>
> So the question is: What do you carry and where?
>
> thanks
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
37495 From: Joe W <arizonajeep@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:30pm
Subject: RE: Re: GUNS: Let's move this discussion to the Arizona Virtual Gun Club... az_vgc
I'm thinking this will be a good group for all of us red-neck troublemakers
who like our guns!
<grin>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jeepin_in_az [mailto:jeepin_in_az@y...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 4:09 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: GUNS: Let's move this discussion to the Arizona
> Virtual Gun Club... az_vgc
>
>
> Thanks Joe!
>
>
> Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "JW" <joew@a...> wrote:
> > To subscribe send an email to az_vgc-subscribe@y...
> >
> > Post message: az_vgc@y...
> > Subscribe: az_vgc-subscribe@y...
> > Unsubscribe: az_vgc-unsubscribe@y...
> > List owner: az_vgc-owner@y...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ************************************************** ********************
> ******
> > ****************************
> > *Some days it just isn't worth the effort to gnaw through the
> restraints and
> > clamber up out of the pit.*
> >
> ************************************************** ********************
> ******
> > ****************************
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
37496 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:35pm
Subject: RE: ........GUNS----->Please read this
Joe,
My 9mm holds 16 rounds (pre-ban gun and magazines). My revolver carries 6
and I don't bother to carry a speedloader or additional rounds. Where the
hell are you wheeling that you need 50 rounds, Afghanistan? Have you been
watching those Dirty Harry movies again? <Grin>
I feel very comfortable with only 6 rounds. I don't expect a firefight in
the desert and if so I'd make tracks before making a stand. Another good
point is that I intend to hit my target not spray the area. If I'm obviously
out of range or outgunned I won't bother to to try and make a stand because
I probably have plenty of room to flee for safety. Given the chance to flee
vs fire I'll choose to flee everytime unless I have to protect my wife or
family. Of course we are close to getting her a new .357 of her own. Theresa
grew up shooting on her parents ranch in Montana so I'm sure she'll be a
great shot with a little practice.
As far as auto vs. revolver goes, that is a personal preference. I have
found that if I keep my skills sharp I prefer my auto. If my skills are not
quite as sharp I tend to find the revolver easier to shoot accurately. And
the sad truth is that I don't get out with them as much as I used to.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: JW [mailto:joew@a...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 2:21 PM
To: 'Michael Wixom'; 'sinclare_jon'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; 'Scott
Kruize'
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
Naw... I'm but a mere novice when it comes to ballistics. Scott Kruize has
probably forgotten more than I know.
Having fired both revolvers and automatics though... I'd have to disagree
with his preference for a revolver on the trail.
A good semi-automatic pistol and a couple of extra magazines and you'll be
in much better shape if you face a very large 4 legged critter. I don't
care how fast you are with a revolver speed loader... I can get off MANY
more rounds on my semi-automatic than you can with a revolver.
Joe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Wixom [mailto:certifiedinsp@m...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:55 PM
> To: sinclare_jon; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; Scott Kruize
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
>
>
> Hey Joe W. I think we can start a whole discussion on ballistics now.
>
> Mike Wixom
> 85 CJ-7
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...>
> To: "sinclare_jon" <sinclare_jon@y...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:34 PM
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
>
>
> > Jon,
> >
> > I like to carry a .357 Magnum on the trail. It doesn't come
> out of the
> Jeep
> > unless its needed. It's not a good idea to brandish it
> unless your life is
> > threatened. I personally don't like wear it on my side
> either. I have
> found
> > that it tends to intimidate the other unarmed people out there.
> >
> > For a trail gun I would recommend a revolver, either .357
> Magnum or .44
> > Magnum. Its a much more reliable weapon IMO and typically
> has much more
> > knock down power than an automatic. Automatics (9mm,
> .40S&W, and .45)
> > typically are great for 2 legged critters but are
> underpowered for an
> > encounter with a 4 legged creature. I no longer carry in
> town, but when I
> > did I preferred my 9mm to the .357 Magnum for that type of use.
> >
> > I've wheeled for almost 8 years in Arizona and carried my
> .357 Magnum most
> > of the time. I've never needed it but you never know. There
> is alot of
> hype
> > and fear out there that I think is unwarranted. Don't let
> yourself get
> > carried away on the fear bandwagon. Use a little common
> sense. The odds
> are
> > that you'll never need a weapon. Of course it's also nice
> to know its
> there
> > just in case.
> >
> > Scott K
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sinclare_jon [mailto:sinclare_jon@y...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:03 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
> >
> >
> > what do you all think?
> > I've been wheeling in Arizona for about a year now. I wheel
> alone and
> > I go as far from the main roads as I can go. I explore and take
> > pictures.
> > I've met more than one jeep driver that carries. I don't, but the
> > last guy I met said I need to if I expect to stay unscathed. His
> > point is when the bad guys see you have a piece they move on.
> >
> > So the question is: What do you carry and where?
> >
> > thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
37497 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:34pm
Subject: RE: Fire Extinquisher
lynch....the powder residue left from those extinguishers are not electrical
friendly (at least, that is what they taught us in the military)
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: lynch [mailto:lynch@v...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 5:11 PM
To: Gary Holmes
Cc: jeepin_in_az; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Fire Extinquisher
Gary and Mike:
On both of your extinguishers, were they CO2 or the ABC dry type? I believe
the ABC type can corrode electronics and such, can anyone verify this?
Regards,
lynch
On Tue, Dec 18, 2001 at 04:49:38PM -0700, Gary Holmes wrote:
> Mike and Crew:
>
> I went to Roadrunner Fire Extinguisher etc. company recently and picked up
> used (but guaranteed) 5 lb. fire extinguishers for approx. $32.00 each.
Put
> 2 in the Camo Cow. Can't have enough fire extinguishers when you need
them
> (from personal experience.)
>
> Gary Holmes
>
> Yeah, they were fully charged!
>
> jeepin_in_az wrote:
>
> > Just got back from Sam's Club (I gotta stay away from there!), and
> > picked up a 2 pack of 2.5 lbs fire extinquishers for $17. That is
> > pretty cheap from what I have seen. I am going to wrap mine up and
> > put it under the tree, "To: Mike, From: Santa!"
> >
> > Mike Baney
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
37498 From: Mike & Karen Acuna <macunasprint@e...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:29pm
Subject: Re: ........GUNS----->Please read this
I always carry my Baretta 92fs 9mm with me when out. Not only for the
possibilty of weirdos, but wild animals.....bears, javelinas, and
snakes.....all of which I'v encountered when out wheelin'. Remember, that
Fisher guy who killed his family, has never been caught. I would hate to run
into someone like that because I wheel with my family. Just my opinion.
Mike 98 ZJ
sinclare_jon wrote:
> what do you all think?
> I've been wheeling in Arizona for about a year now. I wheel alone and
> I go as far from the main roads as I can go. I explore and take
> pictures.
> I've met more than one jeep driver that carries. I don't, but the
> last guy I met said I need to if I expect to stay unscathed. His
> point is when the bad guys see you have a piece they move on.
>
> So the question is: What do you carry and where?
>
> thanks
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
37499 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:39pm
Subject: Funny rip on our nutless buddies
oh crap I think I just ripped on myself
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Attachment: (image/bmp) untitled.bmp [not stored]
37500 From: Mike & Karen Acuna <macunasprint@e...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:35pm
Subject: Re: [MS] Black ZJ in Surprise on Sunday
I saw the wave, but thought you were waving at the yellow TJ. Heres your
wave back.
Mike 98ZJ
my1stjeep wrote:
> Tried to wave, not sure if you saw us, White Lifted XJ right be the
> entrance to Home Depot on Bell Road. Anyway here is another wave.
>
> Chris
> "AzA"
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
37501 From: Fred <fredtj@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:39pm
Subject: Re: Guns and self defense
Thanks for clearing it up Tom. I dropped it, as no one was going to believe
it. Like I mentioned, unless laws have changed in the last 4 or 5 years,
that's what was drilled into us when I took a the class, and is in the "blue
book", as I remember it . I have the book still somewhere).. You can't
threaten, you just do, if the case justifies it, and, as I mentioned, if it
ever happens, remember that one of the two (the shooter or the shootee) has
committed a very serious crime.
The tresspassing part has another thing that I found interesting, regarding
the state laws. You *can't* legally shoot someone for criminal tresspass,
however you *can* threaten to. Strange state ;)
I should probably stay updated on state laws, as maybe somethings changed.
When I took the class, rape has another time where deadly force could be
used.
:)
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom LaFrance" <tlafrance@j...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 4:54 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Guns and self defense
> Only when someone is about to kill you (or a 3rd party) can you use
> deadly force to prevent their actions.
>
> You may ONLY threaten the use of deadly force to prevent criminal
> trespass.
>
> Anything else can be considered brandishing under the disorderly conduct
> code and is a class 6 felony with an average sentence of 3 years in
> prison.
>
> JW: A SIG 220 only carries 8 + 1, thats 1 more than my revo :-) I'll
> take you up on some friendly competition anytime to change your mind
> regarding reloading with speed loaders as well. BTW you can chose which
> hand I use to make it fair :-p
>
> Tom LaFrance
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
37477 From: jeepfanatic97 <itsajeepthing@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 2:14pm
Subject: Re: Macromotive Discount Question
You know I didn't even bother to get his name.....He did an inventory
check for me at the local stores and none of them had what I was
looking for so i was stuck to the i-net anyways......But it is good
to know that In the future I won't have to wait and pay for the
shipping. I think I just got an Unknowledgeable sale's person!!3
Thanks
Rob
--- In az_vjc@y..., "jetowle2000" <James.Towle@a...> wrote:
> Who, what is the persons name, that you talked to?
> They honor the club discount at the stores.
>
> ....Tony from ORU are you listening now. I know you listen in....
>
> We have been through this several times before, how frustrating. If
> you would like to have it from the store you can get it. It is up
to
> you.
> If I can help let me know.
>
> --James
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "jeepfanatic97" <itsajeepthing@a...> wrote:
> > I'm looking to buy some stuff off of Macromotive.com but when i
> > called them they told me to use the discount i have to do
everthing
> > online ........when i'm online i don't see any where to put our
> club
> > acct # in at......Can some one please help me out on this.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Rob
> > 97 TJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
37478 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 2:25pm
Subject: GUNS: Let's move this discussion to the Arizona Virtual Gun Club... az_vgc
To subscribe send an email to az_vgc-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Post message: az_vgc@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: az_vgc-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: az_vgc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
List owner: az_vgc-owner@yahoogroups.com
************************************************** **************************
****************************
*Some days it just isn't worth the effort to gnaw through the restraints and
clamber up out of the pit.*
************************************************** **************************
****************************
37479 From: Scott Maiden <bermboy@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 2:50pm
Subject: NEED A Dana 35 yoke
Anyone have a Dana 35 (1310 series) yoke laying around? I broke one of the nubs that holds the u-joint cap in place (don't ask me how???) and I need one. Also anyone know what all is involved in changing one? I am guessing that you just take the big nut off and slide the yoke out but is there some trick? Thanks in advance, e-mail or call me at 480 236-5090
Scott "Iron" Maiden
93 Green YJ SOA
01 GSX-R 750....o~`o
http://www.scottmaiden.gixxer.com
bermboy@hotmail.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.
37480 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 3:08pm
Subject: Re: GUNS: Let's move this discussion to the Arizona Virtual Gun Club... az_vgc
Thanks Joe!
Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "JW" <joew@a...> wrote:
> To subscribe send an email to az_vgc-subscribe@y...
>
> Post message: az_vgc@y...
> Subscribe: az_vgc-subscribe@y...
> Unsubscribe: az_vgc-unsubscribe@y...
> List owner: az_vgc-owner@y...
>
>
>
>
>
************************************************** ********************
******
> ****************************
> *Some days it just isn't worth the effort to gnaw through the
restraints and
> clamber up out of the pit.*
>
************************************************** ********************
******
> ****************************
37481 From: Nick <nnote@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 3:13pm
Subject: Clutch fixed
Big thanks To Shaun P. For helping me bleed my clutch. It feels fresh and new now!
Nick
37482 From: Jake Wagner <jakewagner@y...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 3:22pm
Subject: Auto Respond
Scott:
Is there any way to turn off your "Auto Respond" on
your e-mail accounts? I think you've posted more in
the last 3 days than the rest of the club! Must be a
marriage thing, I wouldn't know from experience :)
I'll go back to being a lurker. "It's the quiet Ones
you gotta watch" - George Carlin
Bobberman
P.S. I think you still suffer from S.H.S. you seem
to ponder upon your YJ days very often <BIG GRIN>
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:19:18 -0700
From: "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...>
Subject: RE: ........GUNS----->Please read this
Good point. In this scenario you probably were within
your legal rights
to
protect your family from harm. Had they proceeded to
try to run over
your
kids I doubt there is a jury anywhere (except maybe in
California) that
wouldn't acquit you.
These are the types of scenarios that never show up in
the propaganda
statistics put out by the Gun Control people. They
like to only show
information regarding actual shootings of children,
etc wihtout
including
the number of lives that are saved evey year by guns
that are never
even
fired. But again, this is another debate.
Scott K
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
37483 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 3:42pm
Subject: Re: Re: Macromotive Discount Question
When you want to buy something in the store at ORU, your best bet is to go
to the website and print out the page that shows the item number and our
price. Then take that in to the store. Then they do not have to look up a
part number or price. Saves them time and you hassles.
Chris K
> From: "jeepfanatic97" <itsajeepthing@a...>
> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 22:14:29 -0000
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Macromotive Discount Question
>
> You know I didn't even bother to get his name.....He did an inventory
> check for me at the local stores and none of them had what I was
> looking for so i was stuck to the i-net anyways......But it is good
> to know that In the future I won't have to wait and pay for the
> shipping. I think I just got an Unknowledgeable sale's person!!3
>
> Thanks
> Rob
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "jetowle2000" <James.Towle@a...> wrote:
>> Who, what is the persons name, that you talked to?
>> They honor the club discount at the stores.
>>
>> ....Tony from ORU are you listening now. I know you listen in....
>>
>> We have been through this several times before, how frustrating. If
>> you would like to have it from the store you can get it. It is up
> to
>> you.
>> If I can help let me know.
>>
>> --James
>>
>> --- In az_vjc@y..., "jeepfanatic97" <itsajeepthing@a...> wrote:
>>> I'm looking to buy some stuff off of Macromotive.com but when i
>>> called them they told me to use the discount i have to do
> everthing
>>> online ........when i'm online i don't see any where to put our
>> club
>>> acct # in at......Can some one please help me out on this.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Rob
>>> 97 TJ
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
37484 From: sinanturel <sinanturel@y...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 3:45pm
Subject: Re: Any word on that girl who was hurt out at Chiva Falls this past weekend?
some brousing around and found it at
www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19490
And it now looks like it may Chivo Falls
Hopeing for the best !
Sinan
--- In az_vjc@y..., "sinanturel" <sinanturel@y...> wrote:
> There is/was a theard on another board, about a girl/woman lossing
> some fingers in a roll over/tip over .
> But the loacatin was not clear to me, but close to CHIxxxx .
>
> Sinan
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "David R. W. Withers" <dr_ww@h...> wrote:
> > Inform us all please
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Fred [mailto:fredtj@h...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:26 PM
> > To: jeeperaz
> > Cc: az_vjc@y...
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Any word on that girl who was hurt out at
> Chiva
> > Falls this past weekend?
> >
> >
> > Never heard anything that happened. What was it. A wheel'n
accident
> ?
> >
> > Fred
> >
> > jeeperaz wrote:
> >
> > >Just curious if anyone knows how she is doing.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
37485 From: Gary Holmes <niitoyis@w...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 3:49pm
Subject: Re: Fire Extinquisher
Mike and Crew:
I went to Roadrunner Fire Extinguisher etc. company recently and picked up
used (but guaranteed) 5 lb. fire extinguishers for approx. $32.00 each. Put
2 in the Camo Cow. Can't have enough fire extinguishers when you need them
(from personal experience.)
Gary Holmes
Yeah, they were fully charged!
jeepin_in_az wrote:
> Just got back from Sam's Club (I gotta stay away from there!), and
> picked up a 2 pack of 2.5 lbs fire extinquishers for $17. That is
> pretty cheap from what I have seen. I am going to wrap mine up and
> put it under the tree, "To: Mike, From: Santa!"
>
> Mike Baney
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
37486 From: Jason B <the_anubis@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 3:49pm
Subject: Re: ........GUNS----->Please read this
Ok who's glove box is it going to fit in? Really?
-Jason
92 YJ
From: "Chris benner" <cbenner@t...>
To: "Nick" <nnote@a...>, <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>, "sinclare_jon"
<sinclare_jon@y...>, "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...>
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 12:40:37 -0600
Stupid question,
I'm not a gun owner but I'd be very concerned about all the bouncing around
while wheelin. Isn't that a concerning factor in bring a piece with you?
Where would be the safest place to keep it? I see horrible images of it
going off in the glovebox.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...>
To: "Nick" <nnote@a...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>; "sinclare_jon"
<sinclare_jon@y...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:37 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
> Nick,
>
> Why do you call them "ATF people"? The ATF is the Bureau of Alcohol,
> Tobacco, and Firearms. Their job is to enforce gun laws (though they
often
> times get over zealous). I doubt that you would see them out behaving in
the
> manner you describe. I think the word "yahoos" would be more appropriate.
>
> Scott K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nick [mailto:nnote@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:18 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; sinclare_jon
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
>
>
> More than once while wheeling I've come across a group of ATF people, you
> know, smoking drinking and shooting guns. It makes me nervous as hell
and
I
> do plan on getting my own gun to carry someday.
> There was an article in the paper the other day about this. The author
was
> writing that he always carried his gun at night but on this particular
night
> he wasn't. He got cut off by a driver and when he gave the guy the
finger,
> the other driver flashed a gun at him. He said that in reallity he was
glad
> he had forgotten his gun that day because the situation could have very
> easily escalated into someone getting shot. It's just another
interesting
> view of what may happen. If those ATF people had seen a gun on me it
could
> have frightened them into pointing theirs at me.
> On the other hand, when I went hiking into four peaks a couple of
weekends
> ago, I had a shotgun with me, and it made me feel more secure. Not for
> people but because it is a prime bear habitat.
> Nick
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "sinclare_jon" <sinclare_jon@y...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:03 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
>
>
> > what do you all think?
> > I've been wheeling in Arizona for about a year now. I wheel alone and
> > I go as far from the main roads as I can go. I explore and take
> > pictures.
> > I've met more than one jeep driver that carries. I don't, but the
> > last guy I met said I need to if I expect to stay unscathed. His
> > point is when the bad guys see you have a piece they move on.
> >
> > So the question is: What do you carry and where?
> >
> > thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Jason Blank
www.geeks-2serveu.com
Computer On-Site Service & Sales - On-Line Service Requests
Ziggy (TAG)Adopted Kizzy (CAG) Fosterd
Pokey (RB) CatFood & Cloud(keets)
Cookies $ Cream (Breeding Zebra Finches)
Scar (Thinks he's a Person (CAT))
And Last but not least..."GEEP" YJ
__________________________________________________ _______________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
37487 From: Sullivan, Len <kermit@e...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 3:52pm
Subject: RE: ........GUNS----->Please read this
Hi all
There has been a .357 in my Jeep EVERY time it has had dirt under it's
wheels....my gun is kinda like my American Express card. I too have had a
situation that was "defused" by the prescence of a firearm -- If anybody
wants to hear about it I'll post it later.
Regarding the "going off in the glove box" question: I'm sure that most (if
not all of us) carry or store our weapons with the chamber empty while
Jeeping. That and a padded case or holster will prevent unintended
discharges due to bouncing and jouncing. Speed of presentation while inside
a vehicle isn't that big a deal to me.....if I'm threatened while I'm in my
Jeep I'll use the biggest weapon I have. It weighs 5500 lbs and is painted
John Deere Green!!!
Len
On Tuesday, December 18, 2001 3:11 PM, Siade, Randy
[SMTP:randy.siade@u...] wrote:
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fred [mailto:fredtj@h...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 3:07 PM
> To: Siade, Randy
> Cc: joew@a...; 'Scott Kruize'; 'Nick'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> 'sinclare_jon'
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
>
>
37488 From: Tom LaFrance <tlafrance@j...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 3:54pm
Subject: Guns and self defense
Only when someone is about to kill you (or a 3rd party) can you use
deadly force to prevent their actions.
You may ONLY threaten the use of deadly force to prevent criminal
trespass.
Anything else can be considered brandishing under the disorderly conduct
code and is a class 6 felony with an average sentence of 3 years in
prison.
JW: A SIG 220 only carries 8 + 1, thats 1 more than my revo :-) I'll
take you up on some friendly competition anytime to change your mind
regarding reloading with speed loaders as well. BTW you can chose which
hand I use to make it fair :-p
Tom LaFrance
37489 From: lynch <lynch@v...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:10pm
Subject: Re: Fire Extinquisher
Gary and Mike:
On both of your extinguishers, were they CO2 or the ABC dry type? I believe
the ABC type can corrode electronics and such, can anyone verify this?
Regards,
lynch
On Tue, Dec 18, 2001 at 04:49:38PM -0700, Gary Holmes wrote:
> Mike and Crew:
>
> I went to Roadrunner Fire Extinguisher etc. company recently and picked up
> used (but guaranteed) 5 lb. fire extinguishers for approx. $32.00 each. Put
> 2 in the Camo Cow. Can't have enough fire extinguishers when you need them
> (from personal experience.)
>
> Gary Holmes
>
> Yeah, they were fully charged!
>
> jeepin_in_az wrote:
>
> > Just got back from Sam's Club (I gotta stay away from there!), and
> > picked up a 2 pack of 2.5 lbs fire extinquishers for $17. That is
> > pretty cheap from what I have seen. I am going to wrap mine up and
> > put it under the tree, "To: Mike, From: Santa!"
> >
> > Mike Baney
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
37490 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:20pm
Subject: RE: Auto Respond
Jake,
By default Microsoft turns the receipts feature on in Outlook 2000 when it
is installed. If it bothers you there are 2 things you can do. Yell at the
sender to turn it off or go into your e-mail client options and turn it off
so that your e-mail client ignores them. I've recently installed Windows XP
and Office 2000 so I hadn't turned it off yet. In response to Bill's
question about it last night I turned it off. I recommend you go into your
client and turn off acknowledgements as well.
Hope this helps :)
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Jake Wagner [mailto:jakewagner@y...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 4:23 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Auto Respond
Scott:
Is there any way to turn off your "Auto Respond" on
your e-mail accounts? I think you've posted more in
the last 3 days than the rest of the club! Must be a
marriage thing, I wouldn't know from experience :)
I'll go back to being a lurker. "It's the quiet Ones
you gotta watch" - George Carlin
Bobberman
P.S. I think you still suffer from S.H.S. you seem
to ponder upon your YJ days very often <BIG GRIN>
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:19:18 -0700
From: "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...>
Subject: RE: ........GUNS----->Please read this
Good point. In this scenario you probably were within
your legal rights
to
protect your family from harm. Had they proceeded to
try to run over
your
kids I doubt there is a jury anywhere (except maybe in
California) that
wouldn't acquit you.
These are the types of scenarios that never show up in
the propaganda
statistics put out by the Gun Control people. They
like to only show
information regarding actual shootings of children,
etc wihtout
including
the number of lives that are saved evey year by guns
that are never
even
fired. But again, this is another debate.
Scott K
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
37491 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:22pm
Subject: RE: ........GUNS----->Please read this
Joe,
Howdy! YEEEEEEHAWWWW
Scott - Card carrying NRA member too
-----Original Message-----
From: JW [mailto:joew@a...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 2:03 PM
To: 'Scott Kruize'; 'Siade, Randy'; 'Nick'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
'sinclare_jon'
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
No probably about it... if these guys had continued to threaten Randy's wife
and children with a deadly weapon (the vehicle), Randy would have been
within his legal rights to use deadly force to stop the driver.
Hopefully, Tom will speak out on this thread, but, having just taken a CCW
class this topic is fresh in my mind.
It is legal to display and threaten to use (in Arizona anyway) a weapon to
protect a third party (in this case, Randy's family) from deadly force. It
would have been legal for me or anyone else to protect Randy's family as
well.
Scott has touched on a number of great points (kudos Scott).
There was a time when I would have argued that having a weapon is just plain
not needed since statistically, you will probably never have occasion to use
it to protect yourself...
When the Indian gas station attendant died by being shot dead two blocks
from my house in Mesa at the gas station that I go to twice a week... and I
was going there to get gas just after he was shot and I saw the police just
pulling up... my mind was changed forever.
If I had been at the gas station 5 minutes earlier, I would have been there
at the time of the shooting. Had I been there, and had to stand idly by and
watch a man get shot to death; it would have caused me no end of grief.
I signed up for a concealed carry class and purchased my .45 sig a few days
later.
I hope that I never need to use my weapon... but if I ever encounter a
situation where I need it, I will not hesitate a nanosecond to use it.
Kind Regards,
Joe West
PS. I joined the NRA to support their efforts to help ensure our second
amendment rights are never violated by our own government... I guess this
makes me a red-neck engineering geek. <grin>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@e...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:19 PM
> To: Siade, Randy; 'Nick'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; sinclare_jon
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
>
>
> Good point. In this scenario you probably were within your
> legal rights to
> protect your family from harm. Had they proceeded to try to
> run over your
> kids I doubt there is a jury anywhere (except maybe in
> California) that
> wouldn't acquit you.
>
> These are the types of scenarios that never show up in the propaganda
> statistics put out by the Gun Control people. They like to only show
> information regarding actual shootings of children, etc
> wihtout including
> the number of lives that are saved evey year by guns that are
> never even
> fired. But again, this is another debate.
>
> Scott K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Siade, Randy [mailto:randy.siade@u...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:08 PM
> To: 'Nick'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; sinclare_jon
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
>
>
> Here is a true story at the coves. I took my wife and kids to
> the first
> cover for some recreation swimming and fishing. My kids are
> in the water
> playing with my wife close by when these drunk guys in a jeep
> come down the
> big hill and want to travel through the water where my kids
> are playing.
> They tell my wife to move the kids out of the way or they
> will run them
> over. My wife stepped in between them and the kids. They
> start yelling and
> moving forward. In the mean time I had pulled my 9mm out
> walked up to them
> and they yelled at me to get my wife and kids out of the way
> or they where
> going to run them over. I calmly pulled my 9mm out and told
> them the "I have
> a 9mm says you don't". They decided to go around another way.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nick [mailto:nnote@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:18 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; sinclare_jon
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
>
>
> More than once while wheeling I've come across a group of ATF
> people, you
> know, smoking drinking and shooting guns. It makes me
> nervous as hell and I
> do plan on getting my own gun to carry someday.
> There was an article in the paper the other day about this.
> The author was
> writing that he always carried his gun at night but on this
> particular night
> he wasn't. He got cut off by a driver and when he gave the
> guy the finger,
> the other driver flashed a gun at him. He said that in
> reallity he was glad
> he had forgotten his gun that day because the situation could
> have very
> easily escalated into someone getting shot. It's just
> another interesting
> view of what may happen. If those ATF people had seen a gun
> on me it could
> have frightened them into pointing theirs at me.
> On the other hand, when I went hiking into four peaks a
> couple of weekends
> ago, I had a shotgun with me, and it made me feel more
> secure. Not for
> people but because it is a prime bear habitat.
> Nick
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "sinclare_jon" <sinclare_jon@y...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:03 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
>
>
> > what do you all think?
> > I've been wheeling in Arizona for about a year now. I wheel
> alone and
> > I go as far from the main roads as I can go. I explore and take
> > pictures.
> > I've met more than one jeep driver that carries. I don't, but the
> > last guy I met said I need to if I expect to stay unscathed. His
> > point is when the bad guys see you have a piece they move on.
> >
> > So the question is: What do you carry and where?
> >
> > thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
37492 From: kcvehr <kc@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:19pm
Subject: Re: ........GUNS----->Please read this
My personal preferance is for a .40 S&W Sig. It's a high quality and
dependable weapon. I Have been carrying a concealed weapon permit
for the past 4 years (time to renew) and I personally feel much safer
with it at hand. The .40 S&W is a good knock down caliber (at least
for 2 legged threats) and the auto makes for a quick reload. As to
where at work it's on my leg (actually that's a Kahr, but still .40)
most of the rest of the time it will be in afanny pack or on my waidt
under a jacket.
KC Vehr
--- In az_vjc@y..., "sinclare_jon" <sinclare_jon@y...> wrote:
> what do you all think?
> I've been wheeling in Arizona for about a year now. I wheel alone
and
> I go as far from the main roads as I can go. I explore and take
> pictures.
> I've met more than one jeep driver that carries. I don't, but the
> last guy I met said I need to if I expect to stay unscathed. His
> point is when the bad guys see you have a piece they move on.
>
> So the question is: What do you carry and where?
>
> thanks
37493 From: Joe W <arizonajeep@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:23pm
Subject: RE: ........GUNS----->Please read this
Scott, et. al,
Make sure you sign up for the gun group... we'll continue this discussion
there.
Joe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@e...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 5:22 PM
> To: joew@a...; 'Siade, Randy'; 'Nick';
> az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> 'sinclare_jon'
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
>
>
> Joe,
>
> Howdy! YEEEEEEHAWWWW
>
> Scott - Card carrying NRA member too
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JW [mailto:joew@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 2:03 PM
> To: 'Scott Kruize'; 'Siade, Randy'; 'Nick'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> 'sinclare_jon'
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
>
>
> No probably about it... if these guys had continued to
> threaten Randy's wife
> and children with a deadly weapon (the vehicle), Randy would have been
> within his legal rights to use deadly force to stop the driver.
>
> Hopefully, Tom will speak out on this thread, but, having
> just taken a CCW
> class this topic is fresh in my mind.
> It is legal to display and threaten to use (in Arizona
> anyway) a weapon to
> protect a third party (in this case, Randy's family) from
> deadly force. It
> would have been legal for me or anyone else to protect
> Randy's family as
> well.
>
> Scott has touched on a number of great points (kudos Scott).
>
> There was a time when I would have argued that having a
> weapon is just plain
> not needed since statistically, you will probably never have
> occasion to use
> it to protect yourself...
>
> When the Indian gas station attendant died by being shot dead
> two blocks
> from my house in Mesa at the gas station that I go to twice a
> week... and I
> was going there to get gas just after he was shot and I saw
> the police just
> pulling up... my mind was changed forever.
>
> If I had been at the gas station 5 minutes earlier, I would
> have been there
> at the time of the shooting. Had I been there, and had to
> stand idly by and
> watch a man get shot to death; it would have caused me no end
> of grief.
>
> I signed up for a concealed carry class and purchased my .45
> sig a few days
> later.
>
> I hope that I never need to use my weapon... but if I ever encounter a
> situation where I need it, I will not hesitate a nanosecond to use it.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Joe West
>
> PS. I joined the NRA to support their efforts to help ensure
> our second
> amendment rights are never violated by our own government...
> I guess this
> makes me a red-neck engineering geek. <grin>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Scott Kruize [mailto:scottkruize@e...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:19 PM
> > To: Siade, Randy; 'Nick'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; sinclare_jon
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
> >
> >
> > Good point. In this scenario you probably were within your
> > legal rights to
> > protect your family from harm. Had they proceeded to try to
> > run over your
> > kids I doubt there is a jury anywhere (except maybe in
> > California) that
> > wouldn't acquit you.
> >
> > These are the types of scenarios that never show up in the
> propaganda
> > statistics put out by the Gun Control people. They like to only show
> > information regarding actual shootings of children, etc
> > wihtout including
> > the number of lives that are saved evey year by guns that are
> > never even
> > fired. But again, this is another debate.
> >
> > Scott K
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Siade, Randy [mailto:randy.siade@u...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:08 PM
> > To: 'Nick'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; sinclare_jon
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
> >
> >
> > Here is a true story at the coves. I took my wife and kids to
> > the first
> > cover for some recreation swimming and fishing. My kids are
> > in the water
> > playing with my wife close by when these drunk guys in a jeep
> > come down the
> > big hill and want to travel through the water where my kids
> > are playing.
> > They tell my wife to move the kids out of the way or they
> > will run them
> > over. My wife stepped in between them and the kids. They
> > start yelling and
> > moving forward. In the mean time I had pulled my 9mm out
> > walked up to them
> > and they yelled at me to get my wife and kids out of the way
> > or they where
> > going to run them over. I calmly pulled my 9mm out and told
> > them the "I have
> > a 9mm says you don't". They decided to go around another way.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nick [mailto:nnote@a...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:18 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; sinclare_jon
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
> >
> >
> > More than once while wheeling I've come across a group of ATF
> > people, you
> > know, smoking drinking and shooting guns. It makes me
> > nervous as hell and I
> > do plan on getting my own gun to carry someday.
> > There was an article in the paper the other day about this.
> > The author was
> > writing that he always carried his gun at night but on this
> > particular night
> > he wasn't. He got cut off by a driver and when he gave the
> > guy the finger,
> > the other driver flashed a gun at him. He said that in
> > reallity he was glad
> > he had forgotten his gun that day because the situation could
> > have very
> > easily escalated into someone getting shot. It's just
> > another interesting
> > view of what may happen. If those ATF people had seen a gun
> > on me it could
> > have frightened them into pointing theirs at me.
> > On the other hand, when I went hiking into four peaks a
> > couple of weekends
> > ago, I had a shotgun with me, and it made me feel more
> > secure. Not for
> > people but because it is a prime bear habitat.
> > Nick
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "sinclare_jon" <sinclare_jon@y...>
> > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:03 PM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
> >
> >
> > > what do you all think?
> > > I've been wheeling in Arizona for about a year now. I wheel
> > alone and
> > > I go as far from the main roads as I can go. I explore and take
> > > pictures.
> > > I've met more than one jeep driver that carries. I don't, but the
> > > last guy I met said I need to if I expect to stay unscathed. His
> > > point is when the bad guys see you have a piece they move on.
> > >
> > > So the question is: What do you carry and where?
> > >
> > > thanks
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
37494 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:26pm
Subject: RE: Re: ........GUNS----->Please read this
Why own anything other than a glock for an automatic.
-----Original Message-----
From: kcvehr [mailto:kc@a...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 5:19 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: ........GUNS----->Please read this
My personal preferance is for a .40 S&W Sig. It's a high quality and
dependable weapon. I Have been carrying a concealed weapon permit for
the past 4 years (time to renew) and I personally feel much safer with
it at hand. The .40 S&W is a good knock down caliber (at least for 2
legged threats) and the auto makes for a quick reload. As to where at
work it's on my leg (actually that's a Kahr, but still .40) most of the
rest of the time it will be in afanny pack or on my waidt under a
jacket.
KC Vehr
--- In az_vjc@y..., "sinclare_jon" <sinclare_jon@y...> wrote:
> what do you all think?
> I've been wheeling in Arizona for about a year now. I wheel alone
and
> I go as far from the main roads as I can go. I explore and take
> pictures. I've met more than one jeep driver that carries. I don't,
> but the last guy I met said I need to if I expect to stay unscathed.
> His point is when the bad guys see you have a piece they move on.
>
> So the question is: What do you carry and where?
>
> thanks
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
37495 From: Joe W <arizonajeep@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:30pm
Subject: RE: Re: GUNS: Let's move this discussion to the Arizona Virtual Gun Club... az_vgc
I'm thinking this will be a good group for all of us red-neck troublemakers
who like our guns!
<grin>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jeepin_in_az [mailto:jeepin_in_az@y...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 4:09 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: GUNS: Let's move this discussion to the Arizona
> Virtual Gun Club... az_vgc
>
>
> Thanks Joe!
>
>
> Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "JW" <joew@a...> wrote:
> > To subscribe send an email to az_vgc-subscribe@y...
> >
> > Post message: az_vgc@y...
> > Subscribe: az_vgc-subscribe@y...
> > Unsubscribe: az_vgc-unsubscribe@y...
> > List owner: az_vgc-owner@y...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ************************************************** ********************
> ******
> > ****************************
> > *Some days it just isn't worth the effort to gnaw through the
> restraints and
> > clamber up out of the pit.*
> >
> ************************************************** ********************
> ******
> > ****************************
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
37496 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:35pm
Subject: RE: ........GUNS----->Please read this
Joe,
My 9mm holds 16 rounds (pre-ban gun and magazines). My revolver carries 6
and I don't bother to carry a speedloader or additional rounds. Where the
hell are you wheeling that you need 50 rounds, Afghanistan? Have you been
watching those Dirty Harry movies again? <Grin>
I feel very comfortable with only 6 rounds. I don't expect a firefight in
the desert and if so I'd make tracks before making a stand. Another good
point is that I intend to hit my target not spray the area. If I'm obviously
out of range or outgunned I won't bother to to try and make a stand because
I probably have plenty of room to flee for safety. Given the chance to flee
vs fire I'll choose to flee everytime unless I have to protect my wife or
family. Of course we are close to getting her a new .357 of her own. Theresa
grew up shooting on her parents ranch in Montana so I'm sure she'll be a
great shot with a little practice.
As far as auto vs. revolver goes, that is a personal preference. I have
found that if I keep my skills sharp I prefer my auto. If my skills are not
quite as sharp I tend to find the revolver easier to shoot accurately. And
the sad truth is that I don't get out with them as much as I used to.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: JW [mailto:joew@a...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 2:21 PM
To: 'Michael Wixom'; 'sinclare_jon'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; 'Scott
Kruize'
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
Naw... I'm but a mere novice when it comes to ballistics. Scott Kruize has
probably forgotten more than I know.
Having fired both revolvers and automatics though... I'd have to disagree
with his preference for a revolver on the trail.
A good semi-automatic pistol and a couple of extra magazines and you'll be
in much better shape if you face a very large 4 legged critter. I don't
care how fast you are with a revolver speed loader... I can get off MANY
more rounds on my semi-automatic than you can with a revolver.
Joe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Wixom [mailto:certifiedinsp@m...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:55 PM
> To: sinclare_jon; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; Scott Kruize
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
>
>
> Hey Joe W. I think we can start a whole discussion on ballistics now.
>
> Mike Wixom
> 85 CJ-7
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Kruize" <scottkruize@e...>
> To: "sinclare_jon" <sinclare_jon@y...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:34 PM
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
>
>
> > Jon,
> >
> > I like to carry a .357 Magnum on the trail. It doesn't come
> out of the
> Jeep
> > unless its needed. It's not a good idea to brandish it
> unless your life is
> > threatened. I personally don't like wear it on my side
> either. I have
> found
> > that it tends to intimidate the other unarmed people out there.
> >
> > For a trail gun I would recommend a revolver, either .357
> Magnum or .44
> > Magnum. Its a much more reliable weapon IMO and typically
> has much more
> > knock down power than an automatic. Automatics (9mm,
> .40S&W, and .45)
> > typically are great for 2 legged critters but are
> underpowered for an
> > encounter with a 4 legged creature. I no longer carry in
> town, but when I
> > did I preferred my 9mm to the .357 Magnum for that type of use.
> >
> > I've wheeled for almost 8 years in Arizona and carried my
> .357 Magnum most
> > of the time. I've never needed it but you never know. There
> is alot of
> hype
> > and fear out there that I think is unwarranted. Don't let
> yourself get
> > carried away on the fear bandwagon. Use a little common
> sense. The odds
> are
> > that you'll never need a weapon. Of course it's also nice
> to know its
> there
> > just in case.
> >
> > Scott K
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sinclare_jon [mailto:sinclare_jon@y...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:03 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] ........GUNS----->Please read this
> >
> >
> > what do you all think?
> > I've been wheeling in Arizona for about a year now. I wheel
> alone and
> > I go as far from the main roads as I can go. I explore and take
> > pictures.
> > I've met more than one jeep driver that carries. I don't, but the
> > last guy I met said I need to if I expect to stay unscathed. His
> > point is when the bad guys see you have a piece they move on.
> >
> > So the question is: What do you carry and where?
> >
> > thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
37497 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:34pm
Subject: RE: Fire Extinquisher
lynch....the powder residue left from those extinguishers are not electrical
friendly (at least, that is what they taught us in the military)
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: lynch [mailto:lynch@v...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 5:11 PM
To: Gary Holmes
Cc: jeepin_in_az; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Fire Extinquisher
Gary and Mike:
On both of your extinguishers, were they CO2 or the ABC dry type? I believe
the ABC type can corrode electronics and such, can anyone verify this?
Regards,
lynch
On Tue, Dec 18, 2001 at 04:49:38PM -0700, Gary Holmes wrote:
> Mike and Crew:
>
> I went to Roadrunner Fire Extinguisher etc. company recently and picked up
> used (but guaranteed) 5 lb. fire extinguishers for approx. $32.00 each.
Put
> 2 in the Camo Cow. Can't have enough fire extinguishers when you need
them
> (from personal experience.)
>
> Gary Holmes
>
> Yeah, they were fully charged!
>
> jeepin_in_az wrote:
>
> > Just got back from Sam's Club (I gotta stay away from there!), and
> > picked up a 2 pack of 2.5 lbs fire extinquishers for $17. That is
> > pretty cheap from what I have seen. I am going to wrap mine up and
> > put it under the tree, "To: Mike, From: Santa!"
> >
> > Mike Baney
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
37498 From: Mike & Karen Acuna <macunasprint@e...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:29pm
Subject: Re: ........GUNS----->Please read this
I always carry my Baretta 92fs 9mm with me when out. Not only for the
possibilty of weirdos, but wild animals.....bears, javelinas, and
snakes.....all of which I'v encountered when out wheelin'. Remember, that
Fisher guy who killed his family, has never been caught. I would hate to run
into someone like that because I wheel with my family. Just my opinion.
Mike 98 ZJ
sinclare_jon wrote:
> what do you all think?
> I've been wheeling in Arizona for about a year now. I wheel alone and
> I go as far from the main roads as I can go. I explore and take
> pictures.
> I've met more than one jeep driver that carries. I don't, but the
> last guy I met said I need to if I expect to stay unscathed. His
> point is when the bad guys see you have a piece they move on.
>
> So the question is: What do you carry and where?
>
> thanks
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
37499 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:39pm
Subject: Funny rip on our nutless buddies
oh crap I think I just ripped on myself
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Attachment: (image/bmp) untitled.bmp [not stored]
37500 From: Mike & Karen Acuna <macunasprint@e...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:35pm
Subject: Re: [MS] Black ZJ in Surprise on Sunday
I saw the wave, but thought you were waving at the yellow TJ. Heres your
wave back.
Mike 98ZJ
my1stjeep wrote:
> Tried to wave, not sure if you saw us, White Lifted XJ right be the
> entrance to Home Depot on Bell Road. Anyway here is another wave.
>
> Chris
> "AzA"
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
37501 From: Fred <fredtj@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:39pm
Subject: Re: Guns and self defense
Thanks for clearing it up Tom. I dropped it, as no one was going to believe
it. Like I mentioned, unless laws have changed in the last 4 or 5 years,
that's what was drilled into us when I took a the class, and is in the "blue
book", as I remember it . I have the book still somewhere).. You can't
threaten, you just do, if the case justifies it, and, as I mentioned, if it
ever happens, remember that one of the two (the shooter or the shootee) has
committed a very serious crime.
The tresspassing part has another thing that I found interesting, regarding
the state laws. You *can't* legally shoot someone for criminal tresspass,
however you *can* threaten to. Strange state ;)
I should probably stay updated on state laws, as maybe somethings changed.
When I took the class, rape has another time where deadly force could be
used.
:)
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom LaFrance" <tlafrance@j...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 4:54 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Guns and self defense
> Only when someone is about to kill you (or a 3rd party) can you use
> deadly force to prevent their actions.
>
> You may ONLY threaten the use of deadly force to prevent criminal
> trespass.
>
> Anything else can be considered brandishing under the disorderly conduct
> code and is a class 6 felony with an average sentence of 3 years in
> prison.
>
> JW: A SIG 220 only carries 8 + 1, thats 1 more than my revo :-) I'll
> take you up on some friendly competition anytime to change your mind
> regarding reloading with speed loaders as well. BTW you can chose which
> hand I use to make it fair :-p
>
> Tom LaFrance
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>