blooddrive
01-04-2004, 09:02 AM
37327-37351
37327 From: Fred <fredtj@h...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 8:46am
Subject: Re: Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
Also, the new one by Wells is out now. I have a copy and it's really great. Gives milages, GPS coords, photo's, trail descriptions, etc.
Cheers,
Fred
DougB wrote:
Scott Duety's book. Any 4x4 shop should have it.----- Original Message -----From: "brian56b" To: Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:20 AMSubject: [az_vjc] Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
Hi There!I'm looking for a great off road or trail guide book for Arizona thatincludes some maps, gps coordinates, trail rating and information.Can anyone here please make several suggestions what to get and whereto get it? I live in the NW valley.Thanks,BrianYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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37328 From: Mike & Karen Acuna <macunasprint@e...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 8:46am
Subject: [Fwd: Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book]
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:45:07 -0700
From: Mike & Karen Acuna macunasprint@e...
To: brian56b brian56b@y...
Subject: Re: Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
Mike & Karen Acuna wrote:
> Backcountry Adventures Arizona.
> Mike
>
> brian56b wrote:
>
> > Great! Can you make a suggestion as to a couple of titles that are
> > the most popular?
> >
> > ~B~
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., Mike & Karen Acuna <macunasprint@e...> wrote:
> > > Wide World of Maps has an awesome selection of just what your
> > looking for.
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > brian56b wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi There!
> > > >
> > > > I'm looking for a great off road or trail guide book for Arizona
> > that
> > > > includes some maps, gps coordinates, trail rating and information.
> > > > Can anyone here please make several suggestions what to get and
> > where
> > > > to get it? I live in the NW valley.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Brian
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
37329 From: tjsr4r0cks <dkober@g...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 8:47am
Subject: Re: ------------Saguaro Lake/Coves to 4 Peaks
Yes you can get from the Coves to Four Peaks. I don't have the track
saved from my GPS but I have taken this route many times. When you
enter from the Butcher Jones parking lot and head up the wash climb
the ridge on the east side. If you drop down the other side you go
to the first cove. Instead follow this ridge north. You'll see a
good sized hill in front of you. Go up and over, and just continue
following the trail north. You will eventually come to a gate. Go
through the gate and in a short time you'll hit Four Peaks road.
--- In az_vjc@y..., "kmichael02" <kmichael02@y...> wrote:
> Hey everyone...I'm going to try to a do run and over night camping
in
> jan and was wondering if such a route exists(lake to peak)? Has
> anyone done this, heard of it or otherwise, and if so would you
have
> details that you can share. I have maps but prefer any first hand
> experience(s). GPS, FR's, etc. All the help is appreciated.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike
37330 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:04am
Subject: [FS] 1977 Cherokee FSJ
Price: MAKE BEST OFFER
Contact: Travis or Thell Carpenter
Strong running 360 with edlebroc intake and 4barrel carb. MSD Ignition. Auto Tranny and Quadra trans case. 33X12.50 Tires with lots of tread. Great daily driver or an excellent trail rig. Hate to sell her but have decided to buy CJ-5.
Located in PHX call to check it out
Travis Carpenter
37331 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:03am
Subject: Re: Quick Question Concerning run intrest..
I've never run Axle Alley but I've heard you need to park a vehicle at the
top to serve as a winch point. I've also heard that Axle Alley did, indeed,
get it's name for a reason. The inaugural run claimed a number of axles in
addition to other carnage according to what I've heard.
I definitely agree with Doug that Axle Alley is for experienced drivers only
with well-built rigs carrying tools and spare parts.
-Roger
> On runs that require winching, there usually is a winch point established...and
> axle driven into a rock, or a stout tree. Axle alley has both.
>
> As a followup to an earlier question, Axle Alley is really for experienced drivers
> with well built rigs. If you haven't done much in the way of harder rock crawling,
> this is not a good trail to start on. Lower Ajax or lower Raw Deal are better trails
> to cut your teeth on (Class 3+).
>
> Doug
37332 From: imagineero <imagineero@x...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:04am
Subject: re: FOR SALE:tube benders
>Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:00:34 +0900
>To: "jeeperaz" <jeeperaz@b...>
>From: imagineero <imagineero@x...>
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Fwd: FOR SALE:tube benders
>
>Hi Guys,
>FWIW my other hobby is motorcycle design and construction. I spend a fair
>bit of time on the motorcycle chassis design list (a very good list BTW)
>where tube bending and welding is a major topic of interest. Most custom
>motorcycle chassis' are made from tube ala Ducati. $2,400 is not a
>ridiculous amount of money to pay for a custom bender, especially a
>hydraulically operated item as large as the one pictured. In fact it's
>probably a bargain. The orientation of the bender is important, imagine
>trying to fab a roll cage, of the bender was bench mounted or bent in the
>vertical axis then you wouldn't have enough space to bend the tube.
>
>Having said that I'd never shell out that much money for a tubing
>bender. From looking at the photo's it doesn't seem to have any ability
>to fit a mandrel, and doesn't include dies (expect to pay over $1000 more
>for a full set). Piping of smaller diameters can be bent easily and with
>a reasonable amount of accuracy buy a home made bender. For small pipe
>(up to about 1 1/2 inches) you can make the 'die' out of
>hardwood. Hydraulic home made benders can be built for around $100 if you
>have a welder. They need a bit of experience to produce predictable
>results though, so don't expect miracles from the start. Such a tool is
>more useful than it first seems, when coupled with a welder you can make
>things like custom roof racks, ladders, steps etc and it won't be long
>before you start finding other applications around the house. There are
>several inexpensive tube benders available commercially, The 'Lowbuck'
>tubing bender is simple and brilliant, and if you can't afford the $500
>entry fee you can make a replica for a fraction of the cost. If you have
>a lathe then you can make the dies yourself, if not then pay someone to
>make them for you, again at a fraction of the cost. copy the dimensions
>of available tools if you are going to make them, especially dies. Too
>small and they'll destroy the tubing. This style of pipe bender is very
>adaptable, the best part is that it's small. The advantage of this isn't
>obvious at first, but if you want to build something large (read heavy and
>unmaneageable) rather than feeding the pipe through the bender, you just
>attach the bender to the pipe and bend away. This means you'll never run
>out of 'working room' and even large complex projects can be bent in quite
>a small area. When you're done the bender is small enough to throw in
>your trunk and light enough that you don't need ten buddies to help
>you. They still need skill to operate well though.
>
>The 'Lowbuck' website can be found here;
>
>http://209.238.153.119/
>
>They make a lot of great tools. Check it out.
>
>Shaun
>South Korea
>
>>Im guessing $500-$1000 would be more along the lines of what any of
>>us would be willing to spend on equipment such as welders, plasma
>>cutters and benders.
>>
>>Im sure the quality is terrific but for the occasional home garage
>>use, the model 3 from www.jd2.com would be hard to beat especially in
>>the price department.
>>
>>Perhaps your friend could look into building a smaller, less
>>sophisticated, more affordable unit? Maybe something where the
>>hydraulics are an option we can add later ... on our own if we
>>wanted. Just a thought.
>>
>>
>>
>>Regards,
>>LarryM
>>
>>
>> > >
>> > > Hello, just checking to see what you guys think of the bender.
>> > Remember, I did not purchase this to sell for more, This one was
>>just
>> > built by A good friend and I asked him to lower the price for you.
>>So
>> > im not here to make money or to give you some KY!! If you think its
>> > too much or you think Im out to rip you off, Please keep your rude
>> > remarks to yourself. Im not out to do that. Its not christain-like
>> > Thanks
>> > Randy
>> > 99Tj
>> > > __________________________________________________ _______________
>> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>> > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
37333 From: Fred <fredtj@h...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:25am
Subject: Re: Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
It's Chuck or Charles Wells (I believe), and it's something like "The Back Roads of Arizona".. I can check when I get home. It's a brand new one that has just come out in the last month or so. He was down here earlier this year, running all the trails with various clubs and club members.
Cheers,
Fred
brian56b wrote:
That sounds great too Fred. Can you give me the title and or Author's first name?Thanks Everyone for your suggestions.Brian--- In az_vjc@y..., Fred wrote:
Also, the new one by Wells is out now. I have a copy and it's
really
great. Gives milages, GPS coords, photo's, trail descriptions, etc. Cheers, FredDougB wrote:
Scott Duety's book. Any 4x4 shop should have it.----- Original Message -----From: "brian56b" To: Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:20 AMSubject: [az_vjc] Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
Hi There!I'm looking for a great off road or trail guide book for Arizona
that
includes some maps, gps coordinates, trail rating and information.Can anyone here please make several suggestions what to get and
where
to get it? I live in the NW valley.Thanks,BrianYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
37334 From: msa12171 <msa12171@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:21am
Subject: ----- VIRUS HELP! ! ! ------
I have some kind of virus that has attacked my Nortons and software I
need to run here at work. i can't get my antivirus to work nad the
programs come up with something "is linked to missing export
MFC42.DLL:6567" or 64.. and so on. Please help! Thanks. My number
here at work is 602-433-3740, or email me direct.
Thanks,
Mike Anderson
37335 From: <hillb@s...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:29am
Subject: Re: Snow!
I just got a set of BFG K/M on the XJ. I bought them from Rick here in
Phx, and got them siped at the Discount up in Prescott. I'm heading up to
the rim country this weekend and can't wait to see how the siping affects
the handling in the snow and ice.
"Bill Witt"
<k7ant@therim To: "Beckham, Michael"
.com> <Michael.Beckham@b...>, "AZVJC"
<az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
12/16/2001 cc:
11:44 AM Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Snow!
Your right Michael, the key is 4x high. I run all over in my Dodge pickup
with AT's and 2 wheel drive. I think the problem is the jeep is so light! I
have been in deep snow, up to 2 feet of fairly fresh snow and still going
with the jeep in 4 low. I am by far an experienced snow driver having lived
up here and worked and driven in it every year for the last 30 years.
I guess my main point was that with a light jeep and 33x 12.5 MT's and a
traklok or locker, you don't want to try to drive down a plowed snow over
ice road in 2 wheel drive.
Bill W
K7ANT
97 TJ with a few mods.
http://k7ant.rockcrawler.com/
Up on the Mogollon Rim in God and 4 wheeler's country.
----- Original Message -----
From: Beckham, Michael
To: 'Bill Witt' ; AZVJC
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 11:08 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Snow!
My TJ is spooled (rear diff only) I have never had trouble with snow, I
just do everything slower, and use 4 high. (it's got to have some use.
doesn't it?)
of course I only see snow when I go up north. I usually stay here in the
warm(comparatively now) desert like God intended. I get cold just seeing
snow on TV.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Witt [mailto:k7ant@t...]
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 11:07 AM
To: AZVJC
Subject: [az_vjc] Snow!
I found out last night what 33 MT's and a traclok on snow over ice roads
is like! The wife and I went to Show Low to see Harry Potter and do some
more shopping. When we got ready to leave for Heber/Overgaard it was
snowing a little bit. More ice crystals than anything.
I couldn't go very far without the jeep breaking loose and going
sideways. Not just one wheel would spin, but both. I have traclok, and on
snow or ice, both rear wheels break loose at about the same time. With the
wide tires, 33x12.5 BFG mt's, I don't have as good of traction on plowed
roads,(snow over ice or snow/ice pack), as I did with the 31x 10.5 AT's,
(MHO), So, I put the jeep in 4x4 HI and after that she did just fine. I
don't think I spun a tire on the 38 mile drive back to the H/O area.
I think in deep fresh snow the tires would do a lot better.
Bill W
K7ANT
97 TJ with a few mods.
http://k7ant.rockcrawler.com/
Up on the Mogollon Rim in God and 4 wheeler's country.
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
37336 From: brent_lizakowski <brent_lizakowski@h...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:36am
Subject: Re: Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
I second the recommendations for the two books already mentioned. I
have Wells' Moab and Arizona books, they're both very well done as is
Deuty's book. Both will give you GPS coordinates for all the trails
in the book.
Here's where you can find them:
Wells' book: http://www.4x4books.com/ab.htm
Deuty's book: http://www.4x4books.com/azv1.htm (whoops, site says
it's out of print... check your local Popular Outdoor Outfitters,
that's where I got mine).
Sometimes BarnesandNoble.com or Amazon.com will have free shipping
deals, be sure to check there too.
Also, I don't own it (yet), but there's another book that looks very
good, it's called Backcountry Adventures, Arizona. I do own a Utah
version written by the same authors... If the Arizona version is as
good as the Utah version (I'm sure it is), then it'd be very much
worth buying. It's just like Charles Wells' books, only there are
color pictures and a bit more information on the history of the area,
wildlife, etc.
http://www.4x4books.com/az4wd.htm
Brent
--- In az_vjc@y..., "brian56b" <brian56b@y...> wrote:
> Hi There!
>
> I'm looking for a great off road or trail guide book for Arizona
that
> includes some maps, gps coordinates, trail rating and information.
> Can anyone here please make several suggestions what to get and
where
> to get it? I live in the NW valley.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brian
37337 From: <hunteroffroad@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 4:36am
Subject: RE : att John @ hunter offroad time open
Sorry about that. I am open from 1030 to 630 Tuesday thru Friday, and on
Saturday 11 to 4. It is just me there so I recommend that you call first
in case Im out on errand or something. And I will make sure to hang around to
meet you my number is 480-557-7577
Take care
John K
"Hunter"
37338 From: <hillb@s...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:41am
Subject: Re: Re: Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
I got this book for my b-day this year and it's great. I saw it and Costco
(priceclub) this past weekend for around $19. I'm not sure on the exact
price, but I know it was much cheaper than Wide World of Maps, where I got
mine.
Fred
<fredtj@home. To: brian56b <brian56b@y...>,
com> az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
cc:
12/17/2001 Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Off Road / BackRoad Guide
10:25 AM Book
It's Chuck or Charles Wells (I believe), and it's something like "The Back
Roads of Arizona".. I can check when I get home. It's a brand new one that
has just come out in the last month or so. He was down here earlier this
year, running all the trails with various clubs and club members.
Cheers,
Fred
brian56b wrote:
That sounds great too Fred. Can you give me the title and or Author's
first name?
Thanks Everyone for your suggestions.
Brian
--- In az_vjc@y..., Fred <fredtj@h...> wrote:
Also, the new one by Wells is out now. I have a copy and it's
really
great. Gives milages, GPS coords, photo's, trail descriptions,
etc.
Cheers,
Fred
DougB wrote:
Scott Duety's book. Any 4x4 shop should have it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "brian56b" <brian56b@y...>
To: <az_vjc@y...>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:20 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
Hi There!
I'm looking for a great off road or trail guide book
for Arizona
that
includes some maps, gps coordinates, trail rating and
information.
Can anyone here please make several suggestions what to
get and
where
to get it? I live in the NW valley.
Thanks,
Brian
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
37339 From: grafik_lar <jeep_thang@h...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:46am
Subject: (JEEP THANG) Solved the Starter Problem
This is JEEP THANG, Just to let those know that were interested in
what it was. Well turns out no matter what I do I am not going to get
a starter to fit it Just right. SO here is what I did.
1. I painted the Starter gear, let it dry then reinstalled it.
2. Woke the dead and cranked it over twice (don't know why Just did
it twice).
3. took it out to get a clear look at the contact pattern, which was
only about between 1/16 and 1/8 of an inch.
4. I got a file and file about 1/16th off of the front of the starter,
got a smaller bolt, snugged the bottom bolt on the starter, put the
smaller bolt on the top. Pushed the top of the starter as far towards
the motor as possible(Clocked it to the right). Tightened the hell
out of the bolt.
And walla for the first time in 3 years, my JEEP Sounds normal when I
start it.
Now I got a question. I run 32/11.50 Muds have 3.07 gears, I am
getting gears for christmas, 4.11'1 SHould give me a workable low
shouldn't they. I do not wqant to go too low. Anybody run the same
size tires with 4.56's out there that have an opinion as far as gas
mileage any problems like Top speed on the highway.
Sincerely: JEEP THANG
Larry Carmen and now WALKING Lil EMily
37340 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:51am
Subject: unheard of trail
saw it in the deuty trail guide add
Montana Mountain Road (Forest Routes 650 and 172), 3/5
any ideas about it
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
37341 From: <hillb@s...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:53am
Subject: Re: unheard of trail
Me and a few friends did this trail a couple of months ago. It's a very
scenic trail, not very challenging, but there are some nice places to play
around off to the side. It goes up to about 4500ft (I think), so it would
be the perfect time of year to check it out. there are some pics on my web
site, if you want to take a look.
Ben Hill
www.bensjeep.homestead.com
"David R. W.
Withers" To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
<dr_ww@hotmai cc:
l.com> Subject: [az_vjc] unheard of trail
12/17/2001
10:51 AM
saw it in the deuty trail guide add
Montana Mountain Road (Forest Routes 650 and 172), 3/5
any ideas about it
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
37342 From: David Houk <david.houk@o...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:57am
Subject: [Fwd: THE CALIFORNIA DESERT ADVISORY COUNCIL IS NO LONGER GREEN!]
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:41:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Boni Pienups wt7z@y...
Subject: THE CALIFORNIA DESERT ADVISORY COUNCIL IS NO LONGER GREEN!
To: "Al and Wanda Baker" ALWMBAK4X4@a..., "Alan S." A.Svoboda@g..., Anna Carpenter anna.g.carpenter@i..., Betty and Jim bettygj@m..., bill k1bp@y..., Bob Berg rcberg@m..., Brenda Smith n7kdh@y..., charlene todd charliegirl@h..., "Dan Masters" admlcnmx@n..., dave zelinka r13626@e..., "David Houk (r17706)" david.houk@o..., "Deanna Zelinka" at work deanna.zelinka.cwcu@s..., Ed Zornes P15154@g..., FMCADotti dottipage@e..., FMCAJohn jpm1920@y..., FMCAPat Ron ronaw@a..., frank engstrom frank_engstrom@a..., Fred DeJode fldj_55@p..., Gayle Ware gayle.ware@g..., Glen Carpenter glenc@d..., greg gavel Gregory.D.Gavel@J..., "ihor \(Pete's Brother\)" ihorgeorge@h..., jack and ruth ackley <jfack!
@intercomm.com>, jay kopycinski <ryna10@email.sps.mot.com>, jerry and linda <jlkenter@qwest.net>, Joe Smith at Mot <p14227@email.mot.com>, John and Marta Hoburg <John_Hoburg-P20508@email.mot.com>, john mendoza <jmendoz@aol.com>, "Julie S." <J.Svoboda@gd-decisionsystems.com>, Larry Kathy <CINDERHILLSRR@aol.com>, "linda€ luik" <minihummer@worldnet.att.net>, "Mark, Susan" <mslederer@mindspring.com>, Pete and Angie <peteb3@home.com>, ray althaus <rlan7zcj@yahoo.com>, Rex Keller <Rex.Keller@gd-decisionsystems.com>, Roger Baum <rogerbaum@earthlink.net>, Ron Lange <p18725@email.mot.com>, ron werner <p24742@email.mot.com>, sandee mccullen <mccullen@writeme.com>, steve ware <steve_ware@sensor-tech.com>, Gary Yancy <Bgyancy@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
<< This in from Roy Denner, our recreation representative on the Desert
Advisory Council.
Enjoy, Bob
__________________________________________________ _____
THE CALIFORNIA DESERT ADVISORY COUNCIL IS NO LONGER GREEN!
The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) California Desert District Advisory
Council (DAC) held a general meeting in El Centro on Friday, December 7th and
Saturday, December 8th. The DAC advises the BLM on the management of 10
million acres of public lands in the California desert. The DAC has 15
members from various interest groups that are concerned about the California
desert. Council members include representatives from local government
agencies, cattle ranchers, mining interests, environmentalists, and
recreation. I am your Recreation Representative on the DAC. Key items on the
agenda were the Imperial Sand Dunes Recreation Area Management Plan (RAMP);
the NECO management plan, which covers the Imperial County portion of the
desert along the Colorado River; and the NEMO management plan, which is for
the northeastern part of the California desert district.
On Friday, the Council members, representatives of the BLM, and
environmentalists were treated to a sand rail experience in the Glamis dunes.
During the ride, Jerry Seaver, president of the American Sand Association
(ASA), gave a presentation on the merits of sand duning as a recreational
activity. He also explained why the Peirson Milkvetch plant - the plant that
closed 49,300 acres of the dunes to OHV activity - is actually doing very
well in the dunes, in spite of the vehicle activity. Many Council members,
who had never been in a sand rail before, commented on how much they enjoyed
their ride. With the exception of the environmental extremists, they all
expressed support for OHV recreation in the dunes. Several members of SDORC
and ASA took time out of their busy schedules to provide buggies for the
duning neophytes. This contribution of time and effort will have a tremendous
long-term political value for OHV recreation. All of the words in the world
cannot describe the actual on-the-ground experience.
I could write a book about the DAC meeting on Saturday. This meeting was
truly a turning point for OHV recreation. The meeting started at 8:00 a.m.
and lasted until almost 8:00 p.m. There were about 3 or 4 hundred people in
the audience - mostly OHV enthusiasts from SDORC, ASA, CORVA, and TDS. The
following paragraphs describe the major items of interest coming from the
meeting:
IMPERIAL SAND DUNES RAMP:
After a brief presentation by the BLM representative responsible for the
RAMP preparation, I made a motion that the RAMP should include a provision
for mitigating impacts to recreation just like it mitigates impacts to other
endangered species. In other words, if the closures remain in effect,
additional OHV opportunities should be provided to compensate for the loss of
OHV recreation in the dunes. The motion passed 11 to 2. The negative votes
were cast by the Sierra Club Council member and the DAC Chairperson, the
representative for the Native Plant Society.
Wally Leimgruber, the Chairman of the Imperial County Board of Supervisors,
got a unanimous vote to pass a resolution from the DAC to request support
from the State of California to provide supplemental law enforcement officers
during holiday weekends in the Imperial Sand Dunes.
SDORC's attorney, David Hubbard, commented on the RAMP and, as usual, got
everybody's attention with his crystal-clear logic showing why the plan, as
drafted, falls short of meeting Federal environmental laws as they exist. We
managed to get Hubbard enough time to make his comments by having people sign
up to speak and then relinquishing their time to him. David Hubbard is making
it clear to the world that the OHV community is no longer going to be a
pushover population!
OHV CLOSURES IN THE NECO PLANNING AREA:
The draft of the NECO (Northern and Eastern Colorado) desert management plan
calls for the closure of 5 OHV areas. The strongest reason for these closures
is that these OHV areas are being "under utilized". Three of these areas are
sand dune areas. I made the argument to the DAC that, since large areas of
the Imperial Sand Dunes are being closed to OHV recreation, maybe these
"under utilized" dunes might be very valuable to OHV use in the future. I
made a motion that the DAC recommend that these closures be eliminated from
the NECO management plan. The motion passed 11 to 2. Guess who the negative
votes were.
MORE MITIGATION FOR OHV RECREATION:
The last, but not the least, action of the DAC had to do with the two major
land management plans on the agenda - the NECO & NEMO Plans. I made a motion
that each of these plans should include a mitigation provision to compensate
for impacts to recreation caused by these plans. The DAC member who
represents mining interests stated that mitigation should be provided for all
uses of the California desert district. He indicated that road closures and
closures of areas to the public are impacting mining interests as well as
recreation interests. I modified my motion to recommend that impacts to all
desert users should be mitigated. The motion passed with a vote of 11 to 2.
No surprises here.
Once again, people relinquished their time to David Hubbard and he made it
clear that, if the BLM tries to implement these major land management plans
as they are drafted, we will take the battle to the Federal courts.
DELAY OF THE NECO & NEMO PLANS:
Testimony from the BLM's own biologists made it very clear that the BLM has
no idea about the status of the California Desert Tortoise. Unfortunately,
major land use decisions are being made under the assumption that the
Tortoise survival is threatened. The DAC, after hearing the input from the
"experts", voted to recommend that the desert management plans - driven by
the Desert Tortoise Recovery Plan - should not be implemented until the
Recovery Plan is updated and backed up by real science. This is a very
important move, since many unbiased biologists feel that the Desert Tortoise
Recovery Plan is seriously flawed and unsupported by scientific data.
CONCLUSION:
So what does all of this mean? If the Bureau of Land Management follows the
DAC's recommendations, the actions taken by the Desert Advisory Council will
finally bring some sense of balance to the new land management plans being
developed. Unfortunately, the BLM does not have a very good track record on
following DAC recommendations relative to OHV issues. At last year's October
DAC meeting in Barstow, the DAC voted to recommend an expansion of the review
period, and a mitigation provision, for the National OHV Management Strategy.
The BLM held the review period to 30 days - including the Christmas and New
Years holidays - and did not include a mitigation provision for recreation in
the final plan.
An important difference today is the fact that it is not just the OHV
community that is protesting the unfair land management plans being drafted
by the BLM. The Counties of Imperial, San Bernardino, and Kern, as well as
the city of Blythe are beginning to understand the economic impact that will
result from the exclusion of OHV recreation in their districts. The same law
suit that closed OHV areas in the sand dunes calls for cattle ranchers to
remove their herds from BLM open grazing lands that their families have been
using since this Country was founded. Other desert land users, such as
miners, rock hounds, and the filming industry are complaining that the
closure of desert roads and trails is cutting them off from access to
favorite areas.
The battle lines are finally being drawn between the environmental extremist
community and all of the rest of the rational desert public land users who
are also practical environmentalists. I can only wonder when the BLM managers
will start to respond to the overwhelming majority of public land users that
pay their salaries and stop catering to the enviro-extremist minority!
=====
Boni Pienups
Pfaffies Pforever
wt7z@yahoo.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
37343 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 10:03am
Subject: Re: unheard of trail
It runs from Hewett Station Rd...near Boyce Thompson (west of Superior), up to Roger's Trough. You can go from there to Whitlow Dam and out via Queen Valley.
Used to be a class 3, but was graded several years ago. It's been years since I've been on it, so I'm not sure what condition it's in. Very scenic, though.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: David R. W. Withers
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:51 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] unheard of trail
saw it in the deuty trail guide add
Montana Mountain Road (Forest Routes 650 and 172), 3/5
any ideas about it
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
37344 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 10:18am
Subject: RE: ----- VIRUS HELP! ! ! ------
Mike,
You are sooooooo screwed. You have the fatal Nortaneous_Evictus_B.scr
virus. Nothing you can do about it but throw your system out and purchase
another one. Better yet... just send it to me and I'll throw it out for
you.
Joe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: msa12171 [mailto:msa12171@a...]
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:21 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] ----- VIRUS HELP! ! ! ------
>
>
> I have some kind of virus that has attacked my Nortons and software I
> need to run here at work. i can't get my antivirus to work nad the
> programs come up with something "is linked to missing export
> MFC42.DLL:6567" or 64.. and so on. Please help! Thanks. My number
> here at work is 602-433-3740, or email me direct.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike Anderson
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
37345 From: msa12171 <msa12171@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 10:24am
Subject: Re: ----- VIRUS HELP! ! ! ------
Ok Joe. Thanks. What is your address? I'll send it to you. Don't
mind the white powder that is with it, it's just a little packing
dust that I am using for my "special" friends. :)
Mike A.
"Az_A"
--- In az_vjc@y..., "JW" <joew@a...> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> You are sooooooo screwed. You have the fatal
Nortaneous_Evictus_B.scr
> virus. Nothing you can do about it but throw your system out and
purchase
> another one. Better yet... just send it to me and I'll throw it
out for
> you.
>
> Joe
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: msa12171 [mailto:msa12171@a...]
> > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:21 AM
> > To: az_vjc@y...
> > Subject: [az_vjc] ----- VIRUS HELP! ! ! ------
> >
> >
> > I have some kind of virus that has attacked my Nortons and
software I
> > need to run here at work. i can't get my antivirus to work nad
the
> > programs come up with something "is linked to missing export
> > MFC42.DLL:6567" or 64.. and so on. Please help! Thanks. My
number
> > here at work is 602-433-3740, or email me direct.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mike Anderson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
37346 From: g_rob_williams <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 10:43am
Subject: Re: [FS] Lock Right
what gear is it?? 4.56 4.88??
37347 From: paparoach85251 <lespaparoach@m...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 11:09am
Subject: Re: ----- VIRUS HELP! ! ! ------
Mike,
I agree with Joe, that system is toast. Give me a call and I will set
you up with a brand new one. <grin>
Les Roach
International Business Machines
US PCD Direct Sales
(800) 656-0833 Ext. 6190
(800) 656-9832 Fax
lroach@i...
--- In az_vjc@y..., "JW" <joew@a...> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> You are sooooooo screwed. You have the fatal
Nortaneous_Evictus_B.scr
> virus. Nothing you can do about it but throw your system out and
purchase
> another one. Better yet... just send it to me and I'll throw it
out for
> you.
>
> Joe
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: msa12171 [mailto:msa12171@a...]
> > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:21 AM
> > To: az_vjc@y...
> > Subject: [az_vjc] ----- VIRUS HELP! ! ! ------
> >
> >
> > I have some kind of virus that has attacked my Nortons and
software I
> > need to run here at work. i can't get my antivirus to work nad
the
> > programs come up with something "is linked to missing export
> > MFC42.DLL:6567" or 64.. and so on. Please help! Thanks. My
number
> > here at work is 602-433-3740, or email me direct.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mike Anderson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
37348 From: g_rob_williams <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 11:12am
Subject: Mesa CB shop
Where was that CB shop in mesa, and what was the name of it??
Thanks!! -Rob
37349 From: <fls82@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 6:26am
Subject: Re: CJ7 Info/12 Step Program
Only one step ... GET ONE!!
Then you will always be in over your head ... and only occasionally treading water ...
Jim B.
Flag., AZ
37350 From: Marv Miller <mervalt@f...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 8:56am
Subject: Re: Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
The Wells book is "Guide to Arizona Backroads & 4-Wheel Drive Trails". Covers the state and is very informative. A little spendy ($20) but I think worth it.
Marv
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred
To: DougB
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com ; brian56b
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
Also, the new one by Wells is out now. I have a copy and it's really great. Gives milages, GPS coords, photo's, trail descriptions, etc.
Cheers,
Fred
DougB wrote:
Scott Duety's book. Any 4x4 shop should have it.----- Original Message -----From: "brian56b" mailto:To: mailto:Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:20 AMSubject: [az_vjc] Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
Hi There!I'm looking for a great off road or trail guide book for Arizona thatincludes some maps, gps coordinates, trail rating and information.Can anyone here please make several suggestions what to get and whereto get it? I live in the NW valley.Thanks,BrianYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
37351 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 0:22pm
Subject: RE: Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
I go to AZVJC.ORG for the trails in AZ. Actually what I am saying is that azvjc.org can be one of the best resources for trails in Arizona if you want it to be. People can submit trails for the site. I am sure that as long as it is a decent write up and informative Mike will have no problem adding it. I like it becuase it is a living guide to the trials. You can link pictures and add comments to the trails. You can see past runs and learn what a trail has to offer.
Please don't ignore this resource.
I would add trails I know but I am too busy discovering the ones already listed.
Joey K
93YJ
www.desertjeep.com
PS Thanks Mike.
-----Original Message-----
From: Marv Miller [mailto:mervalt@futureone.com]
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:56 AM
To: DougB; Fred
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; brian56b
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
The Wells book is "Guide to Arizona Backroads & 4-Wheel Drive Trails". Covers the state and is very informative. A little spendy ($20) but I think worth it.
Marv
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred
To: DougB
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com ; brian56b
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
Also, the new one by Wells is out now. I have a copy and it's really great. Gives milages, GPS coords, photo's, trail descriptions, etc.
Cheers,
Fred
DougB wrote:
Scott Duety's book. Any 4x4 shop should have it.----- Original Message -----From: "brian56b" mailto:To: mailto:Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:20 AMSubject: [az_vjc] Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
Hi There!I'm looking for a great off road or trail guide book for Arizona thatincludes some maps, gps coordinates, trail rating and information.Can anyone here please make several suggestions what to get and whereto get it? I live in the NW valley.Thanks,BrianYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
37327 From: Fred <fredtj@h...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 8:46am
Subject: Re: Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
Also, the new one by Wells is out now. I have a copy and it's really great. Gives milages, GPS coords, photo's, trail descriptions, etc.
Cheers,
Fred
DougB wrote:
Scott Duety's book. Any 4x4 shop should have it.----- Original Message -----From: "brian56b" To: Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:20 AMSubject: [az_vjc] Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
Hi There!I'm looking for a great off road or trail guide book for Arizona thatincludes some maps, gps coordinates, trail rating and information.Can anyone here please make several suggestions what to get and whereto get it? I live in the NW valley.Thanks,BrianYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
37328 From: Mike & Karen Acuna <macunasprint@e...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 8:46am
Subject: [Fwd: Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book]
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:45:07 -0700
From: Mike & Karen Acuna macunasprint@e...
To: brian56b brian56b@y...
Subject: Re: Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
Mike & Karen Acuna wrote:
> Backcountry Adventures Arizona.
> Mike
>
> brian56b wrote:
>
> > Great! Can you make a suggestion as to a couple of titles that are
> > the most popular?
> >
> > ~B~
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., Mike & Karen Acuna <macunasprint@e...> wrote:
> > > Wide World of Maps has an awesome selection of just what your
> > looking for.
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > brian56b wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi There!
> > > >
> > > > I'm looking for a great off road or trail guide book for Arizona
> > that
> > > > includes some maps, gps coordinates, trail rating and information.
> > > > Can anyone here please make several suggestions what to get and
> > where
> > > > to get it? I live in the NW valley.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Brian
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
37329 From: tjsr4r0cks <dkober@g...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 8:47am
Subject: Re: ------------Saguaro Lake/Coves to 4 Peaks
Yes you can get from the Coves to Four Peaks. I don't have the track
saved from my GPS but I have taken this route many times. When you
enter from the Butcher Jones parking lot and head up the wash climb
the ridge on the east side. If you drop down the other side you go
to the first cove. Instead follow this ridge north. You'll see a
good sized hill in front of you. Go up and over, and just continue
following the trail north. You will eventually come to a gate. Go
through the gate and in a short time you'll hit Four Peaks road.
--- In az_vjc@y..., "kmichael02" <kmichael02@y...> wrote:
> Hey everyone...I'm going to try to a do run and over night camping
in
> jan and was wondering if such a route exists(lake to peak)? Has
> anyone done this, heard of it or otherwise, and if so would you
have
> details that you can share. I have maps but prefer any first hand
> experience(s). GPS, FR's, etc. All the help is appreciated.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike
37330 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:04am
Subject: [FS] 1977 Cherokee FSJ
Price: MAKE BEST OFFER
Contact: Travis or Thell Carpenter
Strong running 360 with edlebroc intake and 4barrel carb. MSD Ignition. Auto Tranny and Quadra trans case. 33X12.50 Tires with lots of tread. Great daily driver or an excellent trail rig. Hate to sell her but have decided to buy CJ-5.
Located in PHX call to check it out
Travis Carpenter
37331 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:03am
Subject: Re: Quick Question Concerning run intrest..
I've never run Axle Alley but I've heard you need to park a vehicle at the
top to serve as a winch point. I've also heard that Axle Alley did, indeed,
get it's name for a reason. The inaugural run claimed a number of axles in
addition to other carnage according to what I've heard.
I definitely agree with Doug that Axle Alley is for experienced drivers only
with well-built rigs carrying tools and spare parts.
-Roger
> On runs that require winching, there usually is a winch point established...and
> axle driven into a rock, or a stout tree. Axle alley has both.
>
> As a followup to an earlier question, Axle Alley is really for experienced drivers
> with well built rigs. If you haven't done much in the way of harder rock crawling,
> this is not a good trail to start on. Lower Ajax or lower Raw Deal are better trails
> to cut your teeth on (Class 3+).
>
> Doug
37332 From: imagineero <imagineero@x...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:04am
Subject: re: FOR SALE:tube benders
>Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:00:34 +0900
>To: "jeeperaz" <jeeperaz@b...>
>From: imagineero <imagineero@x...>
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Fwd: FOR SALE:tube benders
>
>Hi Guys,
>FWIW my other hobby is motorcycle design and construction. I spend a fair
>bit of time on the motorcycle chassis design list (a very good list BTW)
>where tube bending and welding is a major topic of interest. Most custom
>motorcycle chassis' are made from tube ala Ducati. $2,400 is not a
>ridiculous amount of money to pay for a custom bender, especially a
>hydraulically operated item as large as the one pictured. In fact it's
>probably a bargain. The orientation of the bender is important, imagine
>trying to fab a roll cage, of the bender was bench mounted or bent in the
>vertical axis then you wouldn't have enough space to bend the tube.
>
>Having said that I'd never shell out that much money for a tubing
>bender. From looking at the photo's it doesn't seem to have any ability
>to fit a mandrel, and doesn't include dies (expect to pay over $1000 more
>for a full set). Piping of smaller diameters can be bent easily and with
>a reasonable amount of accuracy buy a home made bender. For small pipe
>(up to about 1 1/2 inches) you can make the 'die' out of
>hardwood. Hydraulic home made benders can be built for around $100 if you
>have a welder. They need a bit of experience to produce predictable
>results though, so don't expect miracles from the start. Such a tool is
>more useful than it first seems, when coupled with a welder you can make
>things like custom roof racks, ladders, steps etc and it won't be long
>before you start finding other applications around the house. There are
>several inexpensive tube benders available commercially, The 'Lowbuck'
>tubing bender is simple and brilliant, and if you can't afford the $500
>entry fee you can make a replica for a fraction of the cost. If you have
>a lathe then you can make the dies yourself, if not then pay someone to
>make them for you, again at a fraction of the cost. copy the dimensions
>of available tools if you are going to make them, especially dies. Too
>small and they'll destroy the tubing. This style of pipe bender is very
>adaptable, the best part is that it's small. The advantage of this isn't
>obvious at first, but if you want to build something large (read heavy and
>unmaneageable) rather than feeding the pipe through the bender, you just
>attach the bender to the pipe and bend away. This means you'll never run
>out of 'working room' and even large complex projects can be bent in quite
>a small area. When you're done the bender is small enough to throw in
>your trunk and light enough that you don't need ten buddies to help
>you. They still need skill to operate well though.
>
>The 'Lowbuck' website can be found here;
>
>http://209.238.153.119/
>
>They make a lot of great tools. Check it out.
>
>Shaun
>South Korea
>
>>Im guessing $500-$1000 would be more along the lines of what any of
>>us would be willing to spend on equipment such as welders, plasma
>>cutters and benders.
>>
>>Im sure the quality is terrific but for the occasional home garage
>>use, the model 3 from www.jd2.com would be hard to beat especially in
>>the price department.
>>
>>Perhaps your friend could look into building a smaller, less
>>sophisticated, more affordable unit? Maybe something where the
>>hydraulics are an option we can add later ... on our own if we
>>wanted. Just a thought.
>>
>>
>>
>>Regards,
>>LarryM
>>
>>
>> > >
>> > > Hello, just checking to see what you guys think of the bender.
>> > Remember, I did not purchase this to sell for more, This one was
>>just
>> > built by A good friend and I asked him to lower the price for you.
>>So
>> > im not here to make money or to give you some KY!! If you think its
>> > too much or you think Im out to rip you off, Please keep your rude
>> > remarks to yourself. Im not out to do that. Its not christain-like
>> > Thanks
>> > Randy
>> > 99Tj
>> > > __________________________________________________ _______________
>> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>> > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
37333 From: Fred <fredtj@h...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:25am
Subject: Re: Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
It's Chuck or Charles Wells (I believe), and it's something like "The Back Roads of Arizona".. I can check when I get home. It's a brand new one that has just come out in the last month or so. He was down here earlier this year, running all the trails with various clubs and club members.
Cheers,
Fred
brian56b wrote:
That sounds great too Fred. Can you give me the title and or Author's first name?Thanks Everyone for your suggestions.Brian--- In az_vjc@y..., Fred wrote:
Also, the new one by Wells is out now. I have a copy and it's
really
great. Gives milages, GPS coords, photo's, trail descriptions, etc. Cheers, FredDougB wrote:
Scott Duety's book. Any 4x4 shop should have it.----- Original Message -----From: "brian56b" To: Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:20 AMSubject: [az_vjc] Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
Hi There!I'm looking for a great off road or trail guide book for Arizona
that
includes some maps, gps coordinates, trail rating and information.Can anyone here please make several suggestions what to get and
where
to get it? I live in the NW valley.Thanks,BrianYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
37334 From: msa12171 <msa12171@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:21am
Subject: ----- VIRUS HELP! ! ! ------
I have some kind of virus that has attacked my Nortons and software I
need to run here at work. i can't get my antivirus to work nad the
programs come up with something "is linked to missing export
MFC42.DLL:6567" or 64.. and so on. Please help! Thanks. My number
here at work is 602-433-3740, or email me direct.
Thanks,
Mike Anderson
37335 From: <hillb@s...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:29am
Subject: Re: Snow!
I just got a set of BFG K/M on the XJ. I bought them from Rick here in
Phx, and got them siped at the Discount up in Prescott. I'm heading up to
the rim country this weekend and can't wait to see how the siping affects
the handling in the snow and ice.
"Bill Witt"
<k7ant@therim To: "Beckham, Michael"
.com> <Michael.Beckham@b...>, "AZVJC"
<az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
12/16/2001 cc:
11:44 AM Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Snow!
Your right Michael, the key is 4x high. I run all over in my Dodge pickup
with AT's and 2 wheel drive. I think the problem is the jeep is so light! I
have been in deep snow, up to 2 feet of fairly fresh snow and still going
with the jeep in 4 low. I am by far an experienced snow driver having lived
up here and worked and driven in it every year for the last 30 years.
I guess my main point was that with a light jeep and 33x 12.5 MT's and a
traklok or locker, you don't want to try to drive down a plowed snow over
ice road in 2 wheel drive.
Bill W
K7ANT
97 TJ with a few mods.
http://k7ant.rockcrawler.com/
Up on the Mogollon Rim in God and 4 wheeler's country.
----- Original Message -----
From: Beckham, Michael
To: 'Bill Witt' ; AZVJC
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 11:08 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Snow!
My TJ is spooled (rear diff only) I have never had trouble with snow, I
just do everything slower, and use 4 high. (it's got to have some use.
doesn't it?)
of course I only see snow when I go up north. I usually stay here in the
warm(comparatively now) desert like God intended. I get cold just seeing
snow on TV.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Witt [mailto:k7ant@t...]
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 11:07 AM
To: AZVJC
Subject: [az_vjc] Snow!
I found out last night what 33 MT's and a traclok on snow over ice roads
is like! The wife and I went to Show Low to see Harry Potter and do some
more shopping. When we got ready to leave for Heber/Overgaard it was
snowing a little bit. More ice crystals than anything.
I couldn't go very far without the jeep breaking loose and going
sideways. Not just one wheel would spin, but both. I have traclok, and on
snow or ice, both rear wheels break loose at about the same time. With the
wide tires, 33x12.5 BFG mt's, I don't have as good of traction on plowed
roads,(snow over ice or snow/ice pack), as I did with the 31x 10.5 AT's,
(MHO), So, I put the jeep in 4x4 HI and after that she did just fine. I
don't think I spun a tire on the 38 mile drive back to the H/O area.
I think in deep fresh snow the tires would do a lot better.
Bill W
K7ANT
97 TJ with a few mods.
http://k7ant.rockcrawler.com/
Up on the Mogollon Rim in God and 4 wheeler's country.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
37336 From: brent_lizakowski <brent_lizakowski@h...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:36am
Subject: Re: Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
I second the recommendations for the two books already mentioned. I
have Wells' Moab and Arizona books, they're both very well done as is
Deuty's book. Both will give you GPS coordinates for all the trails
in the book.
Here's where you can find them:
Wells' book: http://www.4x4books.com/ab.htm
Deuty's book: http://www.4x4books.com/azv1.htm (whoops, site says
it's out of print... check your local Popular Outdoor Outfitters,
that's where I got mine).
Sometimes BarnesandNoble.com or Amazon.com will have free shipping
deals, be sure to check there too.
Also, I don't own it (yet), but there's another book that looks very
good, it's called Backcountry Adventures, Arizona. I do own a Utah
version written by the same authors... If the Arizona version is as
good as the Utah version (I'm sure it is), then it'd be very much
worth buying. It's just like Charles Wells' books, only there are
color pictures and a bit more information on the history of the area,
wildlife, etc.
http://www.4x4books.com/az4wd.htm
Brent
--- In az_vjc@y..., "brian56b" <brian56b@y...> wrote:
> Hi There!
>
> I'm looking for a great off road or trail guide book for Arizona
that
> includes some maps, gps coordinates, trail rating and information.
> Can anyone here please make several suggestions what to get and
where
> to get it? I live in the NW valley.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brian
37337 From: <hunteroffroad@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 4:36am
Subject: RE : att John @ hunter offroad time open
Sorry about that. I am open from 1030 to 630 Tuesday thru Friday, and on
Saturday 11 to 4. It is just me there so I recommend that you call first
in case Im out on errand or something. And I will make sure to hang around to
meet you my number is 480-557-7577
Take care
John K
"Hunter"
37338 From: <hillb@s...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:41am
Subject: Re: Re: Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
I got this book for my b-day this year and it's great. I saw it and Costco
(priceclub) this past weekend for around $19. I'm not sure on the exact
price, but I know it was much cheaper than Wide World of Maps, where I got
mine.
Fred
<fredtj@home. To: brian56b <brian56b@y...>,
com> az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
cc:
12/17/2001 Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Off Road / BackRoad Guide
10:25 AM Book
It's Chuck or Charles Wells (I believe), and it's something like "The Back
Roads of Arizona".. I can check when I get home. It's a brand new one that
has just come out in the last month or so. He was down here earlier this
year, running all the trails with various clubs and club members.
Cheers,
Fred
brian56b wrote:
That sounds great too Fred. Can you give me the title and or Author's
first name?
Thanks Everyone for your suggestions.
Brian
--- In az_vjc@y..., Fred <fredtj@h...> wrote:
Also, the new one by Wells is out now. I have a copy and it's
really
great. Gives milages, GPS coords, photo's, trail descriptions,
etc.
Cheers,
Fred
DougB wrote:
Scott Duety's book. Any 4x4 shop should have it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "brian56b" <brian56b@y...>
To: <az_vjc@y...>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:20 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
Hi There!
I'm looking for a great off road or trail guide book
for Arizona
that
includes some maps, gps coordinates, trail rating and
information.
Can anyone here please make several suggestions what to
get and
where
to get it? I live in the NW valley.
Thanks,
Brian
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
37339 From: grafik_lar <jeep_thang@h...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:46am
Subject: (JEEP THANG) Solved the Starter Problem
This is JEEP THANG, Just to let those know that were interested in
what it was. Well turns out no matter what I do I am not going to get
a starter to fit it Just right. SO here is what I did.
1. I painted the Starter gear, let it dry then reinstalled it.
2. Woke the dead and cranked it over twice (don't know why Just did
it twice).
3. took it out to get a clear look at the contact pattern, which was
only about between 1/16 and 1/8 of an inch.
4. I got a file and file about 1/16th off of the front of the starter,
got a smaller bolt, snugged the bottom bolt on the starter, put the
smaller bolt on the top. Pushed the top of the starter as far towards
the motor as possible(Clocked it to the right). Tightened the hell
out of the bolt.
And walla for the first time in 3 years, my JEEP Sounds normal when I
start it.
Now I got a question. I run 32/11.50 Muds have 3.07 gears, I am
getting gears for christmas, 4.11'1 SHould give me a workable low
shouldn't they. I do not wqant to go too low. Anybody run the same
size tires with 4.56's out there that have an opinion as far as gas
mileage any problems like Top speed on the highway.
Sincerely: JEEP THANG
Larry Carmen and now WALKING Lil EMily
37340 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:51am
Subject: unheard of trail
saw it in the deuty trail guide add
Montana Mountain Road (Forest Routes 650 and 172), 3/5
any ideas about it
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
37341 From: <hillb@s...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:53am
Subject: Re: unheard of trail
Me and a few friends did this trail a couple of months ago. It's a very
scenic trail, not very challenging, but there are some nice places to play
around off to the side. It goes up to about 4500ft (I think), so it would
be the perfect time of year to check it out. there are some pics on my web
site, if you want to take a look.
Ben Hill
www.bensjeep.homestead.com
"David R. W.
Withers" To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
<dr_ww@hotmai cc:
l.com> Subject: [az_vjc] unheard of trail
12/17/2001
10:51 AM
saw it in the deuty trail guide add
Montana Mountain Road (Forest Routes 650 and 172), 3/5
any ideas about it
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
37342 From: David Houk <david.houk@o...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:57am
Subject: [Fwd: THE CALIFORNIA DESERT ADVISORY COUNCIL IS NO LONGER GREEN!]
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:41:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Boni Pienups wt7z@y...
Subject: THE CALIFORNIA DESERT ADVISORY COUNCIL IS NO LONGER GREEN!
To: "Al and Wanda Baker" ALWMBAK4X4@a..., "Alan S." A.Svoboda@g..., Anna Carpenter anna.g.carpenter@i..., Betty and Jim bettygj@m..., bill k1bp@y..., Bob Berg rcberg@m..., Brenda Smith n7kdh@y..., charlene todd charliegirl@h..., "Dan Masters" admlcnmx@n..., dave zelinka r13626@e..., "David Houk (r17706)" david.houk@o..., "Deanna Zelinka" at work deanna.zelinka.cwcu@s..., Ed Zornes P15154@g..., FMCADotti dottipage@e..., FMCAJohn jpm1920@y..., FMCAPat Ron ronaw@a..., frank engstrom frank_engstrom@a..., Fred DeJode fldj_55@p..., Gayle Ware gayle.ware@g..., Glen Carpenter glenc@d..., greg gavel Gregory.D.Gavel@J..., "ihor \(Pete's Brother\)" ihorgeorge@h..., jack and ruth ackley <jfack!
@intercomm.com>, jay kopycinski <ryna10@email.sps.mot.com>, jerry and linda <jlkenter@qwest.net>, Joe Smith at Mot <p14227@email.mot.com>, John and Marta Hoburg <John_Hoburg-P20508@email.mot.com>, john mendoza <jmendoz@aol.com>, "Julie S." <J.Svoboda@gd-decisionsystems.com>, Larry Kathy <CINDERHILLSRR@aol.com>, "linda€ luik" <minihummer@worldnet.att.net>, "Mark, Susan" <mslederer@mindspring.com>, Pete and Angie <peteb3@home.com>, ray althaus <rlan7zcj@yahoo.com>, Rex Keller <Rex.Keller@gd-decisionsystems.com>, Roger Baum <rogerbaum@earthlink.net>, Ron Lange <p18725@email.mot.com>, ron werner <p24742@email.mot.com>, sandee mccullen <mccullen@writeme.com>, steve ware <steve_ware@sensor-tech.com>, Gary Yancy <Bgyancy@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
<< This in from Roy Denner, our recreation representative on the Desert
Advisory Council.
Enjoy, Bob
__________________________________________________ _____
THE CALIFORNIA DESERT ADVISORY COUNCIL IS NO LONGER GREEN!
The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) California Desert District Advisory
Council (DAC) held a general meeting in El Centro on Friday, December 7th and
Saturday, December 8th. The DAC advises the BLM on the management of 10
million acres of public lands in the California desert. The DAC has 15
members from various interest groups that are concerned about the California
desert. Council members include representatives from local government
agencies, cattle ranchers, mining interests, environmentalists, and
recreation. I am your Recreation Representative on the DAC. Key items on the
agenda were the Imperial Sand Dunes Recreation Area Management Plan (RAMP);
the NECO management plan, which covers the Imperial County portion of the
desert along the Colorado River; and the NEMO management plan, which is for
the northeastern part of the California desert district.
On Friday, the Council members, representatives of the BLM, and
environmentalists were treated to a sand rail experience in the Glamis dunes.
During the ride, Jerry Seaver, president of the American Sand Association
(ASA), gave a presentation on the merits of sand duning as a recreational
activity. He also explained why the Peirson Milkvetch plant - the plant that
closed 49,300 acres of the dunes to OHV activity - is actually doing very
well in the dunes, in spite of the vehicle activity. Many Council members,
who had never been in a sand rail before, commented on how much they enjoyed
their ride. With the exception of the environmental extremists, they all
expressed support for OHV recreation in the dunes. Several members of SDORC
and ASA took time out of their busy schedules to provide buggies for the
duning neophytes. This contribution of time and effort will have a tremendous
long-term political value for OHV recreation. All of the words in the world
cannot describe the actual on-the-ground experience.
I could write a book about the DAC meeting on Saturday. This meeting was
truly a turning point for OHV recreation. The meeting started at 8:00 a.m.
and lasted until almost 8:00 p.m. There were about 3 or 4 hundred people in
the audience - mostly OHV enthusiasts from SDORC, ASA, CORVA, and TDS. The
following paragraphs describe the major items of interest coming from the
meeting:
IMPERIAL SAND DUNES RAMP:
After a brief presentation by the BLM representative responsible for the
RAMP preparation, I made a motion that the RAMP should include a provision
for mitigating impacts to recreation just like it mitigates impacts to other
endangered species. In other words, if the closures remain in effect,
additional OHV opportunities should be provided to compensate for the loss of
OHV recreation in the dunes. The motion passed 11 to 2. The negative votes
were cast by the Sierra Club Council member and the DAC Chairperson, the
representative for the Native Plant Society.
Wally Leimgruber, the Chairman of the Imperial County Board of Supervisors,
got a unanimous vote to pass a resolution from the DAC to request support
from the State of California to provide supplemental law enforcement officers
during holiday weekends in the Imperial Sand Dunes.
SDORC's attorney, David Hubbard, commented on the RAMP and, as usual, got
everybody's attention with his crystal-clear logic showing why the plan, as
drafted, falls short of meeting Federal environmental laws as they exist. We
managed to get Hubbard enough time to make his comments by having people sign
up to speak and then relinquishing their time to him. David Hubbard is making
it clear to the world that the OHV community is no longer going to be a
pushover population!
OHV CLOSURES IN THE NECO PLANNING AREA:
The draft of the NECO (Northern and Eastern Colorado) desert management plan
calls for the closure of 5 OHV areas. The strongest reason for these closures
is that these OHV areas are being "under utilized". Three of these areas are
sand dune areas. I made the argument to the DAC that, since large areas of
the Imperial Sand Dunes are being closed to OHV recreation, maybe these
"under utilized" dunes might be very valuable to OHV use in the future. I
made a motion that the DAC recommend that these closures be eliminated from
the NECO management plan. The motion passed 11 to 2. Guess who the negative
votes were.
MORE MITIGATION FOR OHV RECREATION:
The last, but not the least, action of the DAC had to do with the two major
land management plans on the agenda - the NECO & NEMO Plans. I made a motion
that each of these plans should include a mitigation provision to compensate
for impacts to recreation caused by these plans. The DAC member who
represents mining interests stated that mitigation should be provided for all
uses of the California desert district. He indicated that road closures and
closures of areas to the public are impacting mining interests as well as
recreation interests. I modified my motion to recommend that impacts to all
desert users should be mitigated. The motion passed with a vote of 11 to 2.
No surprises here.
Once again, people relinquished their time to David Hubbard and he made it
clear that, if the BLM tries to implement these major land management plans
as they are drafted, we will take the battle to the Federal courts.
DELAY OF THE NECO & NEMO PLANS:
Testimony from the BLM's own biologists made it very clear that the BLM has
no idea about the status of the California Desert Tortoise. Unfortunately,
major land use decisions are being made under the assumption that the
Tortoise survival is threatened. The DAC, after hearing the input from the
"experts", voted to recommend that the desert management plans - driven by
the Desert Tortoise Recovery Plan - should not be implemented until the
Recovery Plan is updated and backed up by real science. This is a very
important move, since many unbiased biologists feel that the Desert Tortoise
Recovery Plan is seriously flawed and unsupported by scientific data.
CONCLUSION:
So what does all of this mean? If the Bureau of Land Management follows the
DAC's recommendations, the actions taken by the Desert Advisory Council will
finally bring some sense of balance to the new land management plans being
developed. Unfortunately, the BLM does not have a very good track record on
following DAC recommendations relative to OHV issues. At last year's October
DAC meeting in Barstow, the DAC voted to recommend an expansion of the review
period, and a mitigation provision, for the National OHV Management Strategy.
The BLM held the review period to 30 days - including the Christmas and New
Years holidays - and did not include a mitigation provision for recreation in
the final plan.
An important difference today is the fact that it is not just the OHV
community that is protesting the unfair land management plans being drafted
by the BLM. The Counties of Imperial, San Bernardino, and Kern, as well as
the city of Blythe are beginning to understand the economic impact that will
result from the exclusion of OHV recreation in their districts. The same law
suit that closed OHV areas in the sand dunes calls for cattle ranchers to
remove their herds from BLM open grazing lands that their families have been
using since this Country was founded. Other desert land users, such as
miners, rock hounds, and the filming industry are complaining that the
closure of desert roads and trails is cutting them off from access to
favorite areas.
The battle lines are finally being drawn between the environmental extremist
community and all of the rest of the rational desert public land users who
are also practical environmentalists. I can only wonder when the BLM managers
will start to respond to the overwhelming majority of public land users that
pay their salaries and stop catering to the enviro-extremist minority!
=====
Boni Pienups
Pfaffies Pforever
wt7z@yahoo.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
37343 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 10:03am
Subject: Re: unheard of trail
It runs from Hewett Station Rd...near Boyce Thompson (west of Superior), up to Roger's Trough. You can go from there to Whitlow Dam and out via Queen Valley.
Used to be a class 3, but was graded several years ago. It's been years since I've been on it, so I'm not sure what condition it's in. Very scenic, though.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: David R. W. Withers
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:51 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] unheard of trail
saw it in the deuty trail guide add
Montana Mountain Road (Forest Routes 650 and 172), 3/5
any ideas about it
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
37344 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 10:18am
Subject: RE: ----- VIRUS HELP! ! ! ------
Mike,
You are sooooooo screwed. You have the fatal Nortaneous_Evictus_B.scr
virus. Nothing you can do about it but throw your system out and purchase
another one. Better yet... just send it to me and I'll throw it out for
you.
Joe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: msa12171 [mailto:msa12171@a...]
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:21 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] ----- VIRUS HELP! ! ! ------
>
>
> I have some kind of virus that has attacked my Nortons and software I
> need to run here at work. i can't get my antivirus to work nad the
> programs come up with something "is linked to missing export
> MFC42.DLL:6567" or 64.. and so on. Please help! Thanks. My number
> here at work is 602-433-3740, or email me direct.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike Anderson
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
37345 From: msa12171 <msa12171@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 10:24am
Subject: Re: ----- VIRUS HELP! ! ! ------
Ok Joe. Thanks. What is your address? I'll send it to you. Don't
mind the white powder that is with it, it's just a little packing
dust that I am using for my "special" friends. :)
Mike A.
"Az_A"
--- In az_vjc@y..., "JW" <joew@a...> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> You are sooooooo screwed. You have the fatal
Nortaneous_Evictus_B.scr
> virus. Nothing you can do about it but throw your system out and
purchase
> another one. Better yet... just send it to me and I'll throw it
out for
> you.
>
> Joe
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: msa12171 [mailto:msa12171@a...]
> > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:21 AM
> > To: az_vjc@y...
> > Subject: [az_vjc] ----- VIRUS HELP! ! ! ------
> >
> >
> > I have some kind of virus that has attacked my Nortons and
software I
> > need to run here at work. i can't get my antivirus to work nad
the
> > programs come up with something "is linked to missing export
> > MFC42.DLL:6567" or 64.. and so on. Please help! Thanks. My
number
> > here at work is 602-433-3740, or email me direct.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mike Anderson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
37346 From: g_rob_williams <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 10:43am
Subject: Re: [FS] Lock Right
what gear is it?? 4.56 4.88??
37347 From: paparoach85251 <lespaparoach@m...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 11:09am
Subject: Re: ----- VIRUS HELP! ! ! ------
Mike,
I agree with Joe, that system is toast. Give me a call and I will set
you up with a brand new one. <grin>
Les Roach
International Business Machines
US PCD Direct Sales
(800) 656-0833 Ext. 6190
(800) 656-9832 Fax
lroach@i...
--- In az_vjc@y..., "JW" <joew@a...> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> You are sooooooo screwed. You have the fatal
Nortaneous_Evictus_B.scr
> virus. Nothing you can do about it but throw your system out and
purchase
> another one. Better yet... just send it to me and I'll throw it
out for
> you.
>
> Joe
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: msa12171 [mailto:msa12171@a...]
> > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:21 AM
> > To: az_vjc@y...
> > Subject: [az_vjc] ----- VIRUS HELP! ! ! ------
> >
> >
> > I have some kind of virus that has attacked my Nortons and
software I
> > need to run here at work. i can't get my antivirus to work nad
the
> > programs come up with something "is linked to missing export
> > MFC42.DLL:6567" or 64.. and so on. Please help! Thanks. My
number
> > here at work is 602-433-3740, or email me direct.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mike Anderson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
37348 From: g_rob_williams <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 11:12am
Subject: Mesa CB shop
Where was that CB shop in mesa, and what was the name of it??
Thanks!! -Rob
37349 From: <fls82@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 6:26am
Subject: Re: CJ7 Info/12 Step Program
Only one step ... GET ONE!!
Then you will always be in over your head ... and only occasionally treading water ...
Jim B.
Flag., AZ
37350 From: Marv Miller <mervalt@f...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 8:56am
Subject: Re: Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
The Wells book is "Guide to Arizona Backroads & 4-Wheel Drive Trails". Covers the state and is very informative. A little spendy ($20) but I think worth it.
Marv
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred
To: DougB
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com ; brian56b
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
Also, the new one by Wells is out now. I have a copy and it's really great. Gives milages, GPS coords, photo's, trail descriptions, etc.
Cheers,
Fred
DougB wrote:
Scott Duety's book. Any 4x4 shop should have it.----- Original Message -----From: "brian56b" mailto:To: mailto:Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:20 AMSubject: [az_vjc] Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
Hi There!I'm looking for a great off road or trail guide book for Arizona thatincludes some maps, gps coordinates, trail rating and information.Can anyone here please make several suggestions what to get and whereto get it? I live in the NW valley.Thanks,BrianYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
37351 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2001 0:22pm
Subject: RE: Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
I go to AZVJC.ORG for the trails in AZ. Actually what I am saying is that azvjc.org can be one of the best resources for trails in Arizona if you want it to be. People can submit trails for the site. I am sure that as long as it is a decent write up and informative Mike will have no problem adding it. I like it becuase it is a living guide to the trials. You can link pictures and add comments to the trails. You can see past runs and learn what a trail has to offer.
Please don't ignore this resource.
I would add trails I know but I am too busy discovering the ones already listed.
Joey K
93YJ
www.desertjeep.com
PS Thanks Mike.
-----Original Message-----
From: Marv Miller [mailto:mervalt@futureone.com]
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:56 AM
To: DougB; Fred
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; brian56b
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
The Wells book is "Guide to Arizona Backroads & 4-Wheel Drive Trails". Covers the state and is very informative. A little spendy ($20) but I think worth it.
Marv
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred
To: DougB
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com ; brian56b
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
Also, the new one by Wells is out now. I have a copy and it's really great. Gives milages, GPS coords, photo's, trail descriptions, etc.
Cheers,
Fred
DougB wrote:
Scott Duety's book. Any 4x4 shop should have it.----- Original Message -----From: "brian56b" mailto:To: mailto:Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:20 AMSubject: [az_vjc] Off Road / BackRoad Guide Book
Hi There!I'm looking for a great off road or trail guide book for Arizona thatincludes some maps, gps coordinates, trail rating and information.Can anyone here please make several suggestions what to get and whereto get it? I live in the NW valley.Thanks,BrianYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.