blooddrive
01-04-2004, 08:55 AM
36951-36975
36951 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:39pm
Subject: [TR] Turkey Creek - Saturday, December 22, 2001
Hello All,
Jason Merrill is leading a Turkey Creek trail run on Saturday, December 22, 2001.
When: saturday dec. 22
Where: meet at bumble bee exit @8:30 depart @9:00
Rating: 3.0+
Length: 6-5
CB Channel: 4
Wanting to do a day after b-day run with some buddies anyone from AZVJC is welcome. Happy Holidays
The Turkey Creek Trail runs up the Black Canyon from Bumble Bee to Cleator. After turning left off the main road onto FR 684, the trail will split to go down into the canyon, and then meet back up at the bottom. Either way will get you down, neither are very tough.
Once down to the bottom, take a hard right up and drive up the sandy wash. Keep an eye out for a trail that leads off from the left. If you get to a wide area where the wash splits, you've gone too far. The trail runs between tight brush on each side, there is a gate that you'll have to go through not to far along. As with all gates, if it's open when you find it leave it open; if it's closed then make sure you close it after you pass through.
The trail at this point winds its way up the wash, in many places the trail has all but disappeared. There will be rocky areas to play on along the way. If the river is running, you'll want to make sure you have a winch along, as there are boulders and quick sand hiding, waiting to bite a Jeep.
Keep following the wash up, eventually the road will become more apparent. The trail takes a steep climb out to the top of a ridge, then drops off the other side. You will come to a Y intersection, you may go either way. The left branch climbs another ridge and then drops you back into the wash on the other side.
The right branch takes you through an old hermit's mining claim. The trail on the right branch almost completly disappears; pick your way through carefully you'll find rocky flat areas with no brush on them, this is the trail. After passing around the corner from the Hermit's cabin, you'll see where the trail used to go across a bend in the wash; now that is pretty much impassable. You can continue up the wash and around the corner. If the water is running, this may be extremely hazardous.
After the bend, the two trails combine again. The trail is much more visible now, there will be a few places where the trail splits, take the most travelled looking trail. Go SLOW one of these side trails (the old trail) has about a four foot angled drop off as you come around a blind curve.
The further you go, the more apparent the trail is. At the joining of Poland Creek and Turkey Creek, the trail leaves the bottom of the canyon and heads across the hills to Cleator. Overall, with a small group of Jeeps, this trail can be done between 4 - 6 hours when dry depending on how much site seeing you do. If it is really wet, this can be a weekend trip. One note of caution, this trail runs almost entirely through active mining claims; do NOT stop and start digging around.
Remember to bring water, lunch (and more if it's wet), and don't forget your camera.
Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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36952 From: Mike & Karen Acuna <macunasprint@e...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:45pm
Subject: new lift kit
Has anyone seen or heard of this lift kit yet?
http://www.full-traction.com/zj_3_5.htm
Mike
36953 From: Baja Fleg <fleigle@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:53pm
Subject: Re: new lift kit
I haven't but I would be more then willing to try it out if someone would be
nice enough to donate a set for testing purposes ;)
Evil Michael
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36954 From: Mike & Karen Acuna <macunasprint@e...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 9:02pm
Subject: lift for tj's
or for you TJ people, how about 1100rti out of the box? (according to
the website)
http://www.full-traction.com/new_page_5.htm
Mike
36955 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 9:04pm
Subject: [JR] Terminator and Predator Pics from 11/23
Found another roll. 58-73
Includes a nice series of FlexyXJ going over an obstacle (21-28) and
damage Scott incurred on Predator (46).
Stu could you forward this to your friend that accompanied us on the
run?
Also a picture or two of the truck from Holland.
http://communities.msn.com/DesertJeep/11232001terminatorandpredator.msnw
Sorry for the delay.
Joey K
93YJ
www.desertjeep.com
36956 From: Baja Fleg <fleigle@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 9:06pm
Subject: Re: lift for tj's
I have no idea what a good RTI score is. I know how you measure for your
RTI but just don't know what a good score is. So someone tell me is 1100
good for a 4" system. Also when someone advertises their RTI score what
degree of a ramp do they usually use?
Michael
----Original Message Follows----
or for you TJ people, how about 1100rti out of the box? (according to
the website)
http://www.full-traction.com/new_page_5.htm
Mike
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36957 From: <dntwn1@c...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 4:20pm
Subject: Re: Good Wire Crimpers
John, thomas - betts makes a good sturdy crimper, you are probably only going to find it at a electrical supplier. It is not one of those 27 in one tools. They are built to last.
Greg 97 xj 1/2 coils 1/2 stagecoach
36958 From: monosyllabicguy78 <monosyllabicguy@w...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 9:29pm
Subject: Re: Wheel spacers????
I too have only heard success stories about spacers. matter of fact, i met a guy on the trail once that would really wheel his jeep hard. after a few conversations about jeeps, he told me he has used 4" spacers for years that he had made himself. sure enough i took a look and there they were under his jeep.
Joey
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Roger Tomas" <tomasr@a...> wrote:
> There are spacers that simply fit over your existing lugs. Assuming
> your lugs are long enough or you replace them with longer lugs, you
> don't increase the number of lug nuts you have to put on and take off
> and you don't have the dissimilar metals thing cause lugs to separate
> from the spacer. But you still have the increased leverage on the lugs.
>
> But, like Stu, I've only heard of success stories from people using
> spacers. In fact, a friend has had 1/2" spacers on his rear axle
> for at least a couple years and hasn't had any problems so far.
>
> -Roger
>
> JW wrote:
> >
> > Stu,
> >
> > I haven't looked up any failures... my comments concerning spacers come
> > simply from the physics of adding spacers and nothing more. If you add
> > spacers, you have simply introduced another failure mechanism into a fairly
> > important system (assuming that keeping your wheels on is important <grin>).
> >
> > Wheel spacers are a kludge... a band-aid... something best left to street
> > Jeeps. Here's just a small example; Most of the spacers I have seen are
> > aluminum spacers with steel studs. Ultimately, galvanic corrosion will cause
> > this setup to fail and the studs to pull out of the spacer plate. Do you
> > think that most people who use spacers even KNOW about galvanic corrosion?
> > Do you think that they care? Probably not. If the spacers are made out of
> > steel... then this problem goes away, and you next have to deal with
> > doubling the number of lug nuts you have which hold on your wheels... how
> > many people want to check the torque of the wheel spacers each time they
> > install their wheels... 10 lug nuts instead of 5 per wheel (and not 10 lug
> > nuts in parallel holding the wheel on which (in a simple analysis) would
> > reduce the failure rate of the retaining system by a factor of two... but
> > rather, two sets of 5 lug nuts in parallel which (in a simple analysis)
> > would DOUBLE the failure rate of the retaining system).
> >
> > My paranoia about such things comes from working in the aerospace industry
> > and flying aircraft... when your life depends on the quality of a simple
> > mechanical system (such as wheel attachment), it doesn't make sense to add
> > in complexity and potentially serious failure points when you don't have to.
> >
> > In summary, previous failures or not; wheel spacers are an incredibly bad
> > idea.
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> >
> > Joe West
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:37 AM
> > > To: az_vjc@y...
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
> > >
> > >
> > > I have read, here and there, of a few folks that run them
> > > over the rocks and
> > > they have stated they held up OK. I believe they were doing in the
> > > neighborhood of 5/8" spacers. Of course, a good pair of
> > > spacers, with the
> > > heavier duty studs, cost a fair amount.....as in more than
> > > some folks paid
> > > for their rims. So, some of it boils down to the $$
> > > economics of using them
> > > vs. buying a new rim. A friend of mine was considering a set
> > > until he saw
> > > the price. That pretty much stopped him dead in his tracks
> > > since the rims
> > > were worth about 1/3 the cost of the spacers.
> > >
> > > Joe, I am not going to debate this....but if you can point me
> > > to some of the
> > > failure write-ups, I would appreciate it. I would like to
> > > pass these along
> > > to my friend.
> > >
> > > Stu
36959 From: auat500 <japdep@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 9:43pm
Subject: Job opening: OHV planning asst. State land department
www.land.state.az.us/asld/htmls/nr_job.htm Check it out.
If ever there was an oportunity to make a difference this is it...Jim
36960 From: daveazxj <davidoboyle@h...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 1:14am
Subject: Re: lift for tj's
Looks like a 15 degree ramp... :)
Dave
--- In az_vjc@y..., Mike & Karen Acuna <macunasprint@e...> wrote:
> or for you TJ people, how about 1100rti out of the box? (according
to
> the website)
> http://www.full-traction.com/new_page_5.htm
> Mike
36961 From: Dave O <davidoboyle@h...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 1:51am
Subject: Fwd: S. 1766 Information Update
From: "Brian Caudill" <bcaudill@s...>
Reply-To: <bcaudill@s...>
To: <brianc@s...>
Subject: S. 1766 Information Update
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 17:55:15 -0500
SEMA Action Network Contacts -
A number of people have asked who authored U.S. Senate Bill 1766. The
authors are Senator Tom Daschle (D-SD) and Senator Jeff Bingaman (D-NM).
Below is an updated alert reflecting this fact.
SEMA is gratified with the response this alert has received. Please keep up
the pressure. Share this alert with all club members, friends, relatives,
and anyone else that enjoys the vehicle hobby.
Please continue writing your United States Senators.
Best Regards,
Brian Caudill
SEMA Action Network
__________________________________________________ __________________________
___________
URGENT FEDERAL SCRAPPAGE ALERT
U.S. Senate Bill Would Fund Scrappage Programs Nationwide
A bill (S. 1766), authored by Senators Daschle (D-SD) and Bingaman (D-NM),
has been introduced in the U.S. Senate containing a provision (Section 803)
that would federally fund state scrappage programs for vehicles over 15
years old. Owners who turn in vehicles for crushing would receive a
“minimal” payment and a future credit toward purchasing a newer vehicle, all
in a misguided attempt to improve the overall fuel economy of the country’s
vehicle fleet. This bill represents the most formidable Federal legislative
threat to the vehicle hobby in many years.
Oppose the Use of U.S. Taxpayer Dollars for Scrappage
· Section 803 of S. 1766 would give states that don’t currently operate
scrappage programs an extra incentive to create a program due to generous
federal funding.
· Section 803 of S. 1766 requires that federally funded state scrappage
programs crush every car. It threatens enthusiasts nationwide with the loss
of valuable parts and parts-cars for repair, restoration, and customization
projects.
· Section 803 of S. 1766 does not require states to determine the fuel
efficiency of vehicles being scrapped or that scrapped vehicles are being
replaced by more fuel-efficient vehicles.
· Section 803 of S. 1766 ignores the fact that cars turned in for scrappage
often barely run or are rarely driven second or third vehicles that have a
minimal impact on overall fuel economy.
· Section 803 of S. 1766 will diminish the availability of affordable
transportation and repair parts to low-income drivers as more and more older
cars are crushed.
· Section 803 of S. 1766 does not guarantee that low-income individuals will
be able to afford to purchase new vehicles – let alone more fuel efficient
vehicles – with the money provided by scrappage programs.
· Section 803 of S. 1766 ignores more socially responsible and
cost-effective policy options like voluntary vehicle repair and upgrade
programs that maximize the fuel efficiency of existing vehicles.
.
Contact Your U.S. Senators to Oppose Section 803 of S. 1766
Protect American vehicle enthusiasts and low-income drivers. To find out who
your U.S. Senators are, call the SEMA Washington, D.C. office at
202-783-6007 or access this information via the Internet at
www.enjoythedrive.com/legislative/contact_legislator.asp. For assistance in
turning this alert into a letter to your Senator, consult the SEMA document
"How to Lobby Elected Officials." This guide is available at
www.enjoythedrive.com/san.
Please fax a copy of your letters to us at 202/783-6024 or mail to:
SEMA Washington Office
1317 F St., NW, Ste. 500
Washington, D.C. 20004
Attn: Steve McDonald/Brian Caudill
__________________________________________________ _______________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
36962 From: jaylalib <jaylalib@h...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 5:28am
Subject: FR-42 On Sat?
Hi there,
Is there any interest in running this trail on Sat? I am not 100%
sure yet if I am going but I thought I would check out the
interest....
Jason
36963 From: T.J. Nosmo-King <ice626@h...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 6:54am
Subject: Blue Mtn Jeep Club
Did anyone else in the group read this months quadratec.com newsletter??....they have a new section that spotlites jeep clubs in the U.S......this month features the Blue Mountain Jeep Club in PA....w/500 members, the pres of the club says they are the largest jeep club in North America.....would one of our "founding fathers" like to contact Q-Tec and straighten them out (and maybe get our group spotlited at the same time)???????
TJ Gill
75 CJ5
327/TH350
If we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made with meat???
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36964 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 7:00am
Subject: Re: Blue Mtn Jeep Club
I'll get in touch with them.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: T.J. Nosmo-King
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 7:54 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Blue Mtn Jeep Club
Did anyone else in the group read this months quadratec.com newsletter??....they have a new section that spotlites jeep clubs in the U.S......this month features the Blue Mountain Jeep Club in PA....w/500 members, the pres of the club says they are the largest jeep club in North America.....would one of our "founding fathers" like to contact Q-Tec and straighten them out (and maybe get our group spotlited at the same time)???????
TJ Gill
75 CJ5
327/TH350
If we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made with meat???
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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36965 From: azcj <azcj@y...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 7:11am
Subject: AMC 20 axle width?
Does anyone know if a Wagonner widetrack AMC20 is wider than a CJ
widetrack AMC 20?
Thanks,
Scott E.
36966 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 7:17am
Subject: Re: Trick ride.
That was too damn funny!
Thanks for sharing!
Mike Baney
--- In az_vjc@y..., "David Withers" <dr_ww@h...> wrote:
>
36967 From: jeeperaz <jeeperaz@b...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 7:24am
Subject: Re: AMC 20 axle width?
Yes the waggy 20 will be wider than the CJ 20.
Here is a good amount of info on wagoneer 20's...
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16050
--- In az_vjc@y..., "azcj" <azcj@y...> wrote:
> Does anyone know if a Wagonner widetrack AMC20 is wider than a CJ
> widetrack AMC 20?
>
> Thanks,
> Scott E.
36968 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 7:35am
Subject: Re: new lift kit
I installed this lift on a friends TJ, and it was ok. The track bar
SNAPPED after a month, and they did replace it. Track bar also comes
loose, and makes "popping" noises. Coils are ok, control arms are
not adjustable. IMO, keep looking.
Mike Baney
--- In az_vjc@y..., Mike & Karen Acuna <macunasprint@e...> wrote:
> Has anyone seen or heard of this lift kit yet?
> http://www.full-traction.com/zj_3_5.htm
> Mike
36969 From: Kevin <nau88xj@h...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 7:52am
Subject: Re: lift for tj's
I think they just use 20* ramps. If you look in mags they always have really
small ramps that they use. My CJ can do as good on that size of a ramp
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike & Karen Acuna" <macunasprint@e...>
To: "AZVJC AZVJC" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:02 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] lift for tj's
| or for you TJ people, how about 1100rti out of the box? (according to
| the website)
| http://www.full-traction.com/new_page_5.htm
| Mike
|
|
|
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
|
36970 From: neder13 <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 8:07am
Subject: Re: Wheel spacers????
Things like this make me take an exact opposite opinion than JW's. I
hope that he doesn't drive that thing on the STREET, where I might be
driving down the same road with my FAMILY.
At least if it is just a trail vehicle, then it'll break on the trail
most likely involving only that vehicle and probably no one will be
seriously hurt.
I'd hate to see what would happen on a crowded interstate at 65 -
70mph and have a wheel bearing fail because of too much stress or
have the tire come off because the spacer failed.
I've had a Right Front Wheel Bearing Race fail (it broke from a
material flaw) and my Jeep made an instant Right Turn, right off the
road and luckily onto a wide grassy shoulder area. Luckily that was
at about 35 to 40mph; if I had been doing 60, it likely would have
rolled.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "monosyllabicguy78" <monosyllabicguy@w...> wrote:
> he has used 4" spacers for years that he had made himself.
36971 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 8:20am
Subject: New Sahara
So I think my wife is going to get a TJ. So I go the jeep site and price out a Sahara. Several issues
1. Soft top on a Sahara? since when
2. 3.07 axle ratio only with an automatic and D44? again since when?
3. D44 is an option???? why
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
36972 From: wishmaaker <wishmaaker@y...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 8:45am
Subject: Re: New Sahara
From what I understood while shopping around for my jeep is that
everything was an option on a jeep. "Sahara is just a sticker!" as
said by the sales man at Bill Luke. I have even seen a Sahara wihtout
A/C.
--- In az_vjc@y..., "David R. W. Withers" <dr_ww@h...> wrote:
> So I think my wife is going to get a TJ. So I go the jeep site and
> price out a Sahara. Several issues
> 1. Soft top on a Sahara? since when
> 2. 3.07 axle ratio only with an automatic and D44? again since
when?
> 3. D44 is an option???? why
>
> David R. W. Withers
> Desk: 480.551.4667
> Mobile: 480.215.6992
36973 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 9:03am
Subject: RE: Re: Wheel spacers????
Mike,
I think you are confused... I am against wheel spacers, not for them.
Joe West
> -----Original Message-----
> From: neder13 [mailto:azvjc@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:07 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Wheel spacers????
>
>
> Things like this make me take an exact opposite opinion than JW's. I
> hope that he doesn't drive that thing on the STREET, where I might be
> driving down the same road with my FAMILY.
>
> At least if it is just a trail vehicle, then it'll break on the trail
> most likely involving only that vehicle and probably no one will be
> seriously hurt.
>
> I'd hate to see what would happen on a crowded interstate at 65 -
> 70mph and have a wheel bearing fail because of too much stress or
> have the tire come off because the spacer failed.
>
> I've had a Right Front Wheel Bearing Race fail (it broke from a
> material flaw) and my Jeep made an instant Right Turn, right off the
> road and luckily onto a wide grassy shoulder area. Luckily that was
> at about 35 to 40mph; if I had been doing 60, it likely would have
> rolled.
>
> - Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "monosyllabicguy78" <monosyllabicguy@w...> wrote:
> > he has used 4" spacers for years that he had made himself.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
36974 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 9:11am
Subject: RE: Re: New Sahara
I ordered a loaded Sport with soft top back in 99 and the invoice was $300
cheaper than the comparable Sahara with cruise, tilt, etc.
The only differences were minor. Green Sahara seats, plastic rocker
cladding, and body colored flares. Other than that there is the sticker too.
Most of the Sahara owners I know (JW, Stu O, & Aaron G.) have removed the
plastic rocker cladding in favor of real rocker guards, and both JW and
myself have replaced our crappy TJ seats with Mastercraft seats. His were
Saharan, mine were the Sport seats. Once the flares get some trail scratches
the black Sport flares definitely look better after a couple years than the
painted Sahara flares.
If you are going to leave it stock then the Sahara is a nice looking
cosmetic package. If you plan on building it up I'd order a comparably
equipped Sport. Of course prices and times have changed in 3 years but for
the most part I believe they are still very similar to the 99's.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: wishmaaker [mailto:wishmaaker@y...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:45 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: New Sahara
From what I understood while shopping around for my jeep is that
everything was an option on a jeep. "Sahara is just a sticker!" as
said by the sales man at Bill Luke. I have even seen a Sahara wihtout
A/C.
--- In az_vjc@y..., "David R. W. Withers" <dr_ww@h...> wrote:
> So I think my wife is going to get a TJ. So I go the jeep site and
> price out a Sahara. Several issues
> 1. Soft top on a Sahara? since when
> 2. 3.07 axle ratio only with an automatic and D44? again since
when?
> 3. D44 is an option???? why
>
> David R. W. Withers
> Desk: 480.551.4667
> Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
36975 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 9:12am
Subject: RE: Re: Wheel spacers????
Yeah! JW is against what the rest of us are for!
Get your story straight guys!
<Grin>
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: JW [mailto:joew@a...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 10:03 AM
To: 'neder13'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Wheel spacers????
Mike,
I think you are confused... I am against wheel spacers, not for them.
Joe West
> -----Original Message-----
> From: neder13 [mailto:azvjc@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:07 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Wheel spacers????
>
>
> Things like this make me take an exact opposite opinion than JW's. I
> hope that he doesn't drive that thing on the STREET, where I might be
> driving down the same road with my FAMILY.
>
> At least if it is just a trail vehicle, then it'll break on the trail
> most likely involving only that vehicle and probably no one will be
> seriously hurt.
>
> I'd hate to see what would happen on a crowded interstate at 65 -
> 70mph and have a wheel bearing fail because of too much stress or
> have the tire come off because the spacer failed.
>
> I've had a Right Front Wheel Bearing Race fail (it broke from a
> material flaw) and my Jeep made an instant Right Turn, right off the
> road and luckily onto a wide grassy shoulder area. Luckily that was
> at about 35 to 40mph; if I had been doing 60, it likely would have
> rolled.
>
> - Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "monosyllabicguy78" <monosyllabicguy@w...> wrote:
> > he has used 4" spacers for years that he had made himself.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
36951 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:39pm
Subject: [TR] Turkey Creek - Saturday, December 22, 2001
Hello All,
Jason Merrill is leading a Turkey Creek trail run on Saturday, December 22, 2001.
When: saturday dec. 22
Where: meet at bumble bee exit @8:30 depart @9:00
Rating: 3.0+
Length: 6-5
CB Channel: 4
Wanting to do a day after b-day run with some buddies anyone from AZVJC is welcome. Happy Holidays
The Turkey Creek Trail runs up the Black Canyon from Bumble Bee to Cleator. After turning left off the main road onto FR 684, the trail will split to go down into the canyon, and then meet back up at the bottom. Either way will get you down, neither are very tough.
Once down to the bottom, take a hard right up and drive up the sandy wash. Keep an eye out for a trail that leads off from the left. If you get to a wide area where the wash splits, you've gone too far. The trail runs between tight brush on each side, there is a gate that you'll have to go through not to far along. As with all gates, if it's open when you find it leave it open; if it's closed then make sure you close it after you pass through.
The trail at this point winds its way up the wash, in many places the trail has all but disappeared. There will be rocky areas to play on along the way. If the river is running, you'll want to make sure you have a winch along, as there are boulders and quick sand hiding, waiting to bite a Jeep.
Keep following the wash up, eventually the road will become more apparent. The trail takes a steep climb out to the top of a ridge, then drops off the other side. You will come to a Y intersection, you may go either way. The left branch climbs another ridge and then drops you back into the wash on the other side.
The right branch takes you through an old hermit's mining claim. The trail on the right branch almost completly disappears; pick your way through carefully you'll find rocky flat areas with no brush on them, this is the trail. After passing around the corner from the Hermit's cabin, you'll see where the trail used to go across a bend in the wash; now that is pretty much impassable. You can continue up the wash and around the corner. If the water is running, this may be extremely hazardous.
After the bend, the two trails combine again. The trail is much more visible now, there will be a few places where the trail splits, take the most travelled looking trail. Go SLOW one of these side trails (the old trail) has about a four foot angled drop off as you come around a blind curve.
The further you go, the more apparent the trail is. At the joining of Poland Creek and Turkey Creek, the trail leaves the bottom of the canyon and heads across the hills to Cleator. Overall, with a small group of Jeeps, this trail can be done between 4 - 6 hours when dry depending on how much site seeing you do. If it is really wet, this can be a weekend trip. One note of caution, this trail runs almost entirely through active mining claims; do NOT stop and start digging around.
Remember to bring water, lunch (and more if it's wet), and don't forget your camera.
Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
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36952 From: Mike & Karen Acuna <macunasprint@e...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:45pm
Subject: new lift kit
Has anyone seen or heard of this lift kit yet?
http://www.full-traction.com/zj_3_5.htm
Mike
36953 From: Baja Fleg <fleigle@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:53pm
Subject: Re: new lift kit
I haven't but I would be more then willing to try it out if someone would be
nice enough to donate a set for testing purposes ;)
Evil Michael
__________________________________________________ _______________
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36954 From: Mike & Karen Acuna <macunasprint@e...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 9:02pm
Subject: lift for tj's
or for you TJ people, how about 1100rti out of the box? (according to
the website)
http://www.full-traction.com/new_page_5.htm
Mike
36955 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 9:04pm
Subject: [JR] Terminator and Predator Pics from 11/23
Found another roll. 58-73
Includes a nice series of FlexyXJ going over an obstacle (21-28) and
damage Scott incurred on Predator (46).
Stu could you forward this to your friend that accompanied us on the
run?
Also a picture or two of the truck from Holland.
http://communities.msn.com/DesertJeep/11232001terminatorandpredator.msnw
Sorry for the delay.
Joey K
93YJ
www.desertjeep.com
36956 From: Baja Fleg <fleigle@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 9:06pm
Subject: Re: lift for tj's
I have no idea what a good RTI score is. I know how you measure for your
RTI but just don't know what a good score is. So someone tell me is 1100
good for a 4" system. Also when someone advertises their RTI score what
degree of a ramp do they usually use?
Michael
----Original Message Follows----
or for you TJ people, how about 1100rti out of the box? (according to
the website)
http://www.full-traction.com/new_page_5.htm
Mike
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
__________________________________________________ _______________
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36957 From: <dntwn1@c...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 4:20pm
Subject: Re: Good Wire Crimpers
John, thomas - betts makes a good sturdy crimper, you are probably only going to find it at a electrical supplier. It is not one of those 27 in one tools. They are built to last.
Greg 97 xj 1/2 coils 1/2 stagecoach
36958 From: monosyllabicguy78 <monosyllabicguy@w...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 9:29pm
Subject: Re: Wheel spacers????
I too have only heard success stories about spacers. matter of fact, i met a guy on the trail once that would really wheel his jeep hard. after a few conversations about jeeps, he told me he has used 4" spacers for years that he had made himself. sure enough i took a look and there they were under his jeep.
Joey
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Roger Tomas" <tomasr@a...> wrote:
> There are spacers that simply fit over your existing lugs. Assuming
> your lugs are long enough or you replace them with longer lugs, you
> don't increase the number of lug nuts you have to put on and take off
> and you don't have the dissimilar metals thing cause lugs to separate
> from the spacer. But you still have the increased leverage on the lugs.
>
> But, like Stu, I've only heard of success stories from people using
> spacers. In fact, a friend has had 1/2" spacers on his rear axle
> for at least a couple years and hasn't had any problems so far.
>
> -Roger
>
> JW wrote:
> >
> > Stu,
> >
> > I haven't looked up any failures... my comments concerning spacers come
> > simply from the physics of adding spacers and nothing more. If you add
> > spacers, you have simply introduced another failure mechanism into a fairly
> > important system (assuming that keeping your wheels on is important <grin>).
> >
> > Wheel spacers are a kludge... a band-aid... something best left to street
> > Jeeps. Here's just a small example; Most of the spacers I have seen are
> > aluminum spacers with steel studs. Ultimately, galvanic corrosion will cause
> > this setup to fail and the studs to pull out of the spacer plate. Do you
> > think that most people who use spacers even KNOW about galvanic corrosion?
> > Do you think that they care? Probably not. If the spacers are made out of
> > steel... then this problem goes away, and you next have to deal with
> > doubling the number of lug nuts you have which hold on your wheels... how
> > many people want to check the torque of the wheel spacers each time they
> > install their wheels... 10 lug nuts instead of 5 per wheel (and not 10 lug
> > nuts in parallel holding the wheel on which (in a simple analysis) would
> > reduce the failure rate of the retaining system by a factor of two... but
> > rather, two sets of 5 lug nuts in parallel which (in a simple analysis)
> > would DOUBLE the failure rate of the retaining system).
> >
> > My paranoia about such things comes from working in the aerospace industry
> > and flying aircraft... when your life depends on the quality of a simple
> > mechanical system (such as wheel attachment), it doesn't make sense to add
> > in complexity and potentially serious failure points when you don't have to.
> >
> > In summary, previous failures or not; wheel spacers are an incredibly bad
> > idea.
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> >
> > Joe West
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:37 AM
> > > To: az_vjc@y...
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
> > >
> > >
> > > I have read, here and there, of a few folks that run them
> > > over the rocks and
> > > they have stated they held up OK. I believe they were doing in the
> > > neighborhood of 5/8" spacers. Of course, a good pair of
> > > spacers, with the
> > > heavier duty studs, cost a fair amount.....as in more than
> > > some folks paid
> > > for their rims. So, some of it boils down to the $$
> > > economics of using them
> > > vs. buying a new rim. A friend of mine was considering a set
> > > until he saw
> > > the price. That pretty much stopped him dead in his tracks
> > > since the rims
> > > were worth about 1/3 the cost of the spacers.
> > >
> > > Joe, I am not going to debate this....but if you can point me
> > > to some of the
> > > failure write-ups, I would appreciate it. I would like to
> > > pass these along
> > > to my friend.
> > >
> > > Stu
36959 From: auat500 <japdep@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 9:43pm
Subject: Job opening: OHV planning asst. State land department
www.land.state.az.us/asld/htmls/nr_job.htm Check it out.
If ever there was an oportunity to make a difference this is it...Jim
36960 From: daveazxj <davidoboyle@h...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 1:14am
Subject: Re: lift for tj's
Looks like a 15 degree ramp... :)
Dave
--- In az_vjc@y..., Mike & Karen Acuna <macunasprint@e...> wrote:
> or for you TJ people, how about 1100rti out of the box? (according
to
> the website)
> http://www.full-traction.com/new_page_5.htm
> Mike
36961 From: Dave O <davidoboyle@h...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 1:51am
Subject: Fwd: S. 1766 Information Update
From: "Brian Caudill" <bcaudill@s...>
Reply-To: <bcaudill@s...>
To: <brianc@s...>
Subject: S. 1766 Information Update
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 17:55:15 -0500
SEMA Action Network Contacts -
A number of people have asked who authored U.S. Senate Bill 1766. The
authors are Senator Tom Daschle (D-SD) and Senator Jeff Bingaman (D-NM).
Below is an updated alert reflecting this fact.
SEMA is gratified with the response this alert has received. Please keep up
the pressure. Share this alert with all club members, friends, relatives,
and anyone else that enjoys the vehicle hobby.
Please continue writing your United States Senators.
Best Regards,
Brian Caudill
SEMA Action Network
__________________________________________________ __________________________
___________
URGENT FEDERAL SCRAPPAGE ALERT
U.S. Senate Bill Would Fund Scrappage Programs Nationwide
A bill (S. 1766), authored by Senators Daschle (D-SD) and Bingaman (D-NM),
has been introduced in the U.S. Senate containing a provision (Section 803)
that would federally fund state scrappage programs for vehicles over 15
years old. Owners who turn in vehicles for crushing would receive a
“minimal” payment and a future credit toward purchasing a newer vehicle, all
in a misguided attempt to improve the overall fuel economy of the country’s
vehicle fleet. This bill represents the most formidable Federal legislative
threat to the vehicle hobby in many years.
Oppose the Use of U.S. Taxpayer Dollars for Scrappage
· Section 803 of S. 1766 would give states that don’t currently operate
scrappage programs an extra incentive to create a program due to generous
federal funding.
· Section 803 of S. 1766 requires that federally funded state scrappage
programs crush every car. It threatens enthusiasts nationwide with the loss
of valuable parts and parts-cars for repair, restoration, and customization
projects.
· Section 803 of S. 1766 does not require states to determine the fuel
efficiency of vehicles being scrapped or that scrapped vehicles are being
replaced by more fuel-efficient vehicles.
· Section 803 of S. 1766 ignores the fact that cars turned in for scrappage
often barely run or are rarely driven second or third vehicles that have a
minimal impact on overall fuel economy.
· Section 803 of S. 1766 will diminish the availability of affordable
transportation and repair parts to low-income drivers as more and more older
cars are crushed.
· Section 803 of S. 1766 does not guarantee that low-income individuals will
be able to afford to purchase new vehicles – let alone more fuel efficient
vehicles – with the money provided by scrappage programs.
· Section 803 of S. 1766 ignores more socially responsible and
cost-effective policy options like voluntary vehicle repair and upgrade
programs that maximize the fuel efficiency of existing vehicles.
.
Contact Your U.S. Senators to Oppose Section 803 of S. 1766
Protect American vehicle enthusiasts and low-income drivers. To find out who
your U.S. Senators are, call the SEMA Washington, D.C. office at
202-783-6007 or access this information via the Internet at
www.enjoythedrive.com/legislative/contact_legislator.asp. For assistance in
turning this alert into a letter to your Senator, consult the SEMA document
"How to Lobby Elected Officials." This guide is available at
www.enjoythedrive.com/san.
Please fax a copy of your letters to us at 202/783-6024 or mail to:
SEMA Washington Office
1317 F St., NW, Ste. 500
Washington, D.C. 20004
Attn: Steve McDonald/Brian Caudill
__________________________________________________ _______________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
36962 From: jaylalib <jaylalib@h...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 5:28am
Subject: FR-42 On Sat?
Hi there,
Is there any interest in running this trail on Sat? I am not 100%
sure yet if I am going but I thought I would check out the
interest....
Jason
36963 From: T.J. Nosmo-King <ice626@h...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 6:54am
Subject: Blue Mtn Jeep Club
Did anyone else in the group read this months quadratec.com newsletter??....they have a new section that spotlites jeep clubs in the U.S......this month features the Blue Mountain Jeep Club in PA....w/500 members, the pres of the club says they are the largest jeep club in North America.....would one of our "founding fathers" like to contact Q-Tec and straighten them out (and maybe get our group spotlited at the same time)???????
TJ Gill
75 CJ5
327/TH350
If we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made with meat???
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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36964 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 7:00am
Subject: Re: Blue Mtn Jeep Club
I'll get in touch with them.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: T.J. Nosmo-King
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 7:54 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Blue Mtn Jeep Club
Did anyone else in the group read this months quadratec.com newsletter??....they have a new section that spotlites jeep clubs in the U.S......this month features the Blue Mountain Jeep Club in PA....w/500 members, the pres of the club says they are the largest jeep club in North America.....would one of our "founding fathers" like to contact Q-Tec and straighten them out (and maybe get our group spotlited at the same time)???????
TJ Gill
75 CJ5
327/TH350
If we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made with meat???
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
36965 From: azcj <azcj@y...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 7:11am
Subject: AMC 20 axle width?
Does anyone know if a Wagonner widetrack AMC20 is wider than a CJ
widetrack AMC 20?
Thanks,
Scott E.
36966 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 7:17am
Subject: Re: Trick ride.
That was too damn funny!
Thanks for sharing!
Mike Baney
--- In az_vjc@y..., "David Withers" <dr_ww@h...> wrote:
>
36967 From: jeeperaz <jeeperaz@b...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 7:24am
Subject: Re: AMC 20 axle width?
Yes the waggy 20 will be wider than the CJ 20.
Here is a good amount of info on wagoneer 20's...
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16050
--- In az_vjc@y..., "azcj" <azcj@y...> wrote:
> Does anyone know if a Wagonner widetrack AMC20 is wider than a CJ
> widetrack AMC 20?
>
> Thanks,
> Scott E.
36968 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 7:35am
Subject: Re: new lift kit
I installed this lift on a friends TJ, and it was ok. The track bar
SNAPPED after a month, and they did replace it. Track bar also comes
loose, and makes "popping" noises. Coils are ok, control arms are
not adjustable. IMO, keep looking.
Mike Baney
--- In az_vjc@y..., Mike & Karen Acuna <macunasprint@e...> wrote:
> Has anyone seen or heard of this lift kit yet?
> http://www.full-traction.com/zj_3_5.htm
> Mike
36969 From: Kevin <nau88xj@h...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 7:52am
Subject: Re: lift for tj's
I think they just use 20* ramps. If you look in mags they always have really
small ramps that they use. My CJ can do as good on that size of a ramp
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike & Karen Acuna" <macunasprint@e...>
To: "AZVJC AZVJC" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:02 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] lift for tj's
| or for you TJ people, how about 1100rti out of the box? (according to
| the website)
| http://www.full-traction.com/new_page_5.htm
| Mike
|
|
|
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
|
36970 From: neder13 <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 8:07am
Subject: Re: Wheel spacers????
Things like this make me take an exact opposite opinion than JW's. I
hope that he doesn't drive that thing on the STREET, where I might be
driving down the same road with my FAMILY.
At least if it is just a trail vehicle, then it'll break on the trail
most likely involving only that vehicle and probably no one will be
seriously hurt.
I'd hate to see what would happen on a crowded interstate at 65 -
70mph and have a wheel bearing fail because of too much stress or
have the tire come off because the spacer failed.
I've had a Right Front Wheel Bearing Race fail (it broke from a
material flaw) and my Jeep made an instant Right Turn, right off the
road and luckily onto a wide grassy shoulder area. Luckily that was
at about 35 to 40mph; if I had been doing 60, it likely would have
rolled.
- Mike
--- In az_vjc@y..., "monosyllabicguy78" <monosyllabicguy@w...> wrote:
> he has used 4" spacers for years that he had made himself.
36971 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 8:20am
Subject: New Sahara
So I think my wife is going to get a TJ. So I go the jeep site and price out a Sahara. Several issues
1. Soft top on a Sahara? since when
2. 3.07 axle ratio only with an automatic and D44? again since when?
3. D44 is an option???? why
David R. W. Withers
Desk: 480.551.4667
Mobile: 480.215.6992
36972 From: wishmaaker <wishmaaker@y...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 8:45am
Subject: Re: New Sahara
From what I understood while shopping around for my jeep is that
everything was an option on a jeep. "Sahara is just a sticker!" as
said by the sales man at Bill Luke. I have even seen a Sahara wihtout
A/C.
--- In az_vjc@y..., "David R. W. Withers" <dr_ww@h...> wrote:
> So I think my wife is going to get a TJ. So I go the jeep site and
> price out a Sahara. Several issues
> 1. Soft top on a Sahara? since when
> 2. 3.07 axle ratio only with an automatic and D44? again since
when?
> 3. D44 is an option???? why
>
> David R. W. Withers
> Desk: 480.551.4667
> Mobile: 480.215.6992
36973 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 9:03am
Subject: RE: Re: Wheel spacers????
Mike,
I think you are confused... I am against wheel spacers, not for them.
Joe West
> -----Original Message-----
> From: neder13 [mailto:azvjc@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:07 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Wheel spacers????
>
>
> Things like this make me take an exact opposite opinion than JW's. I
> hope that he doesn't drive that thing on the STREET, where I might be
> driving down the same road with my FAMILY.
>
> At least if it is just a trail vehicle, then it'll break on the trail
> most likely involving only that vehicle and probably no one will be
> seriously hurt.
>
> I'd hate to see what would happen on a crowded interstate at 65 -
> 70mph and have a wheel bearing fail because of too much stress or
> have the tire come off because the spacer failed.
>
> I've had a Right Front Wheel Bearing Race fail (it broke from a
> material flaw) and my Jeep made an instant Right Turn, right off the
> road and luckily onto a wide grassy shoulder area. Luckily that was
> at about 35 to 40mph; if I had been doing 60, it likely would have
> rolled.
>
> - Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "monosyllabicguy78" <monosyllabicguy@w...> wrote:
> > he has used 4" spacers for years that he had made himself.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
36974 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 9:11am
Subject: RE: Re: New Sahara
I ordered a loaded Sport with soft top back in 99 and the invoice was $300
cheaper than the comparable Sahara with cruise, tilt, etc.
The only differences were minor. Green Sahara seats, plastic rocker
cladding, and body colored flares. Other than that there is the sticker too.
Most of the Sahara owners I know (JW, Stu O, & Aaron G.) have removed the
plastic rocker cladding in favor of real rocker guards, and both JW and
myself have replaced our crappy TJ seats with Mastercraft seats. His were
Saharan, mine were the Sport seats. Once the flares get some trail scratches
the black Sport flares definitely look better after a couple years than the
painted Sahara flares.
If you are going to leave it stock then the Sahara is a nice looking
cosmetic package. If you plan on building it up I'd order a comparably
equipped Sport. Of course prices and times have changed in 3 years but for
the most part I believe they are still very similar to the 99's.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: wishmaaker [mailto:wishmaaker@y...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:45 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: New Sahara
From what I understood while shopping around for my jeep is that
everything was an option on a jeep. "Sahara is just a sticker!" as
said by the sales man at Bill Luke. I have even seen a Sahara wihtout
A/C.
--- In az_vjc@y..., "David R. W. Withers" <dr_ww@h...> wrote:
> So I think my wife is going to get a TJ. So I go the jeep site and
> price out a Sahara. Several issues
> 1. Soft top on a Sahara? since when
> 2. 3.07 axle ratio only with an automatic and D44? again since
when?
> 3. D44 is an option???? why
>
> David R. W. Withers
> Desk: 480.551.4667
> Mobile: 480.215.6992
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
36975 From: Scott Kruize <scottkruize@e...>
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2001 9:12am
Subject: RE: Re: Wheel spacers????
Yeah! JW is against what the rest of us are for!
Get your story straight guys!
<Grin>
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: JW [mailto:joew@a...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 10:03 AM
To: 'neder13'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Wheel spacers????
Mike,
I think you are confused... I am against wheel spacers, not for them.
Joe West
> -----Original Message-----
> From: neder13 [mailto:azvjc@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:07 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Wheel spacers????
>
>
> Things like this make me take an exact opposite opinion than JW's. I
> hope that he doesn't drive that thing on the STREET, where I might be
> driving down the same road with my FAMILY.
>
> At least if it is just a trail vehicle, then it'll break on the trail
> most likely involving only that vehicle and probably no one will be
> seriously hurt.
>
> I'd hate to see what would happen on a crowded interstate at 65 -
> 70mph and have a wheel bearing fail because of too much stress or
> have the tire come off because the spacer failed.
>
> I've had a Right Front Wheel Bearing Race fail (it broke from a
> material flaw) and my Jeep made an instant Right Turn, right off the
> road and luckily onto a wide grassy shoulder area. Luckily that was
> at about 35 to 40mph; if I had been doing 60, it likely would have
> rolled.
>
> - Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "monosyllabicguy78" <monosyllabicguy@w...> wrote:
> > he has used 4" spacers for years that he had made himself.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/