blooddrive
01-04-2004, 08:54 AM
36876-36900
36876 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:15am
Subject: RE: Re: BulletProof is still expensive!
<grin>
Turns out I screwed up twice... First when I thought the BulletProof price
included the bumper, and second, when I thought the OR fab price included
the bumper <grin>
I guess that's kind of like a double negative which brings us back to the
fact that the BP and OR prices are about the same.
But you are right, I was stating that I threw out an incorrect statement
when I said the BP price included the bumper.
Since both OR and BP setups run around $700... I guess I'll stick with my
opinion that BP is a much better choice... even if it is only for the
lifetime guarantee.
Joe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaylalib [mailto:jaylalib@h...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 8:57 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: BulletProof is still expensive!
>
>
> So what you are saying Joe is that nevermind all those emails or "My
> Bad" <Grin>
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "JW" <joew@a...> wrote:
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > Just a quick note to let you know that BulletProof's bumper did NOT
> drop in
> > price... the price shown in their latest price list ($466) for the
> spare
> > tire carrier DOES NOT include the bumper. The bumper itself is an
> > additional $256. This was my mistake in looking at their price
> list...
> >
> > So... for those of you who are looking at the OR setup; there is
> your reason
> > to purchase it. It is MUCH less expensive than the BulletProof
> setup.
> >
> > Kind Regards
> >
> > Joe West
> >
> > PS. Who started this thread?
> > <grin>
> >
> >
> ************************************************** ********************
> ******
> > ****************************
> > *Some days it just isn't worth the effort to gnaw through the
> restraints and
> > clamber up out of the pit.*
> >
> ************************************************** ********************
> ******
> > ****************************
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
36877 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:16am
Subject: Re: BulletProof is still expensive!
Jack As$!!! ;)
Mike Baney
--- In az_vjc@y..., "JW" <joew@a...> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Just a quick note to let you know that BulletProof's bumper did NOT
drop in
> price... the price shown in their latest price list ($466) for the
spare
> tire carrier DOES NOT include the bumper. The bumper itself is an
> additional $256. This was my mistake in looking at their price
list...
>
> So... for those of you who are looking at the OR setup; there is
your reason
> to purchase it. It is MUCH less expensive than the BulletProof
setup.
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Joe West
>
> PS. Who started this thread?
> <grin>
>
>
************************************************** ********************
******
> ****************************
> *Some days it just isn't worth the effort to gnaw through the
restraints and
> clamber up out of the pit.*
>
************************************************** ********************
******
> ****************************
36878 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:17am
Subject: RE: Wheel spacers????
Mike,
Wheel Spacers are a really BAD idea. Using them just introduces another
possible catastrophic failure mechanism and I don't know of any spacers
which are designed for the abuse we give them. If you just use your Jeep on
the road, they may be okay.
If however, you use it offroad... don't even consider wheel spacers.
If you want to extend your track width, do it right and purchase wheels with
different offsets OR purchase wider tires.
Kind Regards,
Joe West
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Beckham, Michael [mailto:Michael.Beckham@b...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:14 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
>
>
> Does any one know about wheel spacers? I know you can get
> them for toyotas
> to extend the wheel base, but can you get them for Jeeps so
> you can keep
> your stock wheels? (I admit I like the little jeep symbol on them)
>
> I will now sit back and wait for the abuse...........:)
>
> -
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
36879 From: Robert Holmes <flamable_liquid@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:19am
Subject: Re: Build-it-yourself bumpers are WAY less expensive and Infinitely BETTER than anything else!!! was: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
And rock-sliders, and fenders, and bell housing, get a bigger motor, get a
grany trany, And while you're at it, re-design your frame. What they know in
Detriot anyway. They've never been out here.
~Rob Holmes
>From: "Robert Holmes" <flamable_liquid@h...>
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: Build-it-yourself bumpers are WAY less expensive and
>Infinitely BETTER than anything else!!! was: RE: [az_vjc] Bulletproof is
>LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:09:43
>
>Id have to say we are huge fans of building our own bumpers,
>And skid plate, axel truss, roll cage, winch mount. Buy a welder.
>Take a class. There's nothing more macho than bonding steel.
>Ug-ug.
>
>~Rob Holmes
>
>
>
> >From: "mt_b" <mt_b@y...>
> >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: Build-it-yourself bumpers are WAY less expensive and
> >Infinitely BETTER than anything else!!! was: RE: [az_vjc] Bulletproof is
> >LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
> >Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 14:38:45 -0000
> >
> >Yes...but do you have no doors and no top by choice, or because they
> >don't fit! :)
> >
> >Dan
> >
> >--- In az_vjc@y..., Tom LaFrance <tlafrance@j...> wrote:
> > > Joe,
> > >
> > > LOL, LOL :-)
> > >
> > > No manliness comparisons!
> > >
> > > Well, not unless you have no doors, no top, no heat, no a/c AND have
> > > fabricated your own bumpers. Manual transmission, brakes and
> >steering
> > > MAY be required in some cases to compensate for lack of manliness.
> > >
> > > Tom
> > > "Coils make good barstools"
> > >
> > > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 21:41:34 -0700 "Joe W" <arizonajeep@h...>
> >writes:
> > > > Hey!
> > > >
> > > > I think that Scott Kruize's used his Jeep offroad twice (maybe).
> > > > Does this make HIM a real man?
> > > > <grin>
> > > >
> > > > "Coils make good chair supports when old,
> > > > YJ's you just toss in the garbage"
> > > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > "Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who don't"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________ _______________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________ _______________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
36880 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:20am
Subject: Re: BulletProof is still expensive!
See Joe, thats what happens when you get married, you start thinking
with the wrong head!
Mike Baney
--- In az_vjc@y..., "JW" <joew@a...> wrote:
> <grin>
>
> Turns out I screwed up twice... First when I thought the
BulletProof price
> included the bumper, and second, when I thought the OR fab price
included
> the bumper <grin>
>
> I guess that's kind of like a double negative which brings us back
to the
> fact that the BP and OR prices are about the same.
>
> But you are right, I was stating that I threw out an incorrect
statement
> when I said the BP price included the bumper.
>
> Since both OR and BP setups run around $700... I guess I'll stick
with my
> opinion that BP is a much better choice... even if it is only for
the
> lifetime guarantee.
>
> Joe
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jaylalib [mailto:jaylalib@h...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 8:57 AM
> > To: az_vjc@y...
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: BulletProof is still expensive!
> >
> >
> > So what you are saying Joe is that nevermind all those emails
or "My
> > Bad" <Grin>
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., "JW" <joew@a...> wrote:
> > > Hi Everyone,
> > >
> > > Just a quick note to let you know that BulletProof's bumper did
NOT
> > drop in
> > > price... the price shown in their latest price list ($466) for
the
> > spare
> > > tire carrier DOES NOT include the bumper. The bumper itself is
an
> > > additional $256. This was my mistake in looking at their price
> > list...
> > >
> > > So... for those of you who are looking at the OR setup; there is
> > your reason
> > > to purchase it. It is MUCH less expensive than the BulletProof
> > setup.
> > >
> > > Kind Regards
> > >
> > > Joe West
> > >
> > > PS. Who started this thread?
> > > <grin>
> > >
> > >
> >
************************************************** ********************
> > ******
> > > ****************************
> > > *Some days it just isn't worth the effort to gnaw through the
> > restraints and
> > > clamber up out of the pit.*
> > >
> >
************************************************** ********************
> > ******
> > > ****************************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
36881 From: neder13 <azvjc@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:25am
Subject: Prefix Suggestion
We have the following prefixes in use for the AzVJC mailing list:
[TR] = Trail Run
[LU] = Land Use
[FS] = For Sale
[OT] = Off Topic
(did I miss any?)
May I suggest one more?
[MB] = More Banter
This way when the thread runs completely off topic instead of having
"Some Newer Subject WAS: Some New Subject WAS: Some Old Subject WAS:
Some Older Subject..." we can just change the subject line to "[MB]
Old Subject Line"
Of course we could then also have [MUB] or More Useless Banter... ;)
- Mike
36882 From: g_rob_williams <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:33am
Subject: Re: Wheel spacers????
They do make aftermarket wheels with the Jeep logo on them, I think I
either saw them in the quadratec or 4wheel hardware catalogs. -Rob
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Beckham, Michael" <Michael.Beckham@b...> wrote:
> Does any one know about wheel spacers? I know you can get them for
toyotas
> to extend the wheel base, but can you get them for Jeeps so you can
keep
> your stock wheels? (I admit I like the little jeep symbol on them)
>
> I will now sit back and wait for the abuse...........:)
>
> -
36883 From: Scott Thomas <sthomas@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:34am
Subject: RE: Wheel spacers????
I have to agree with Joe about not running spacers. You can get off set
rims fairly cheap without the worry of breaking something else farther down
the road.
Scott Thomas
97' Tj
-----Original Message-----
From: JW [mailto:joew@a...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:18 AM
To: 'Beckham, Michael'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
Mike,
Wheel Spacers are a really BAD idea. Using them just introduces another
possible catastrophic failure mechanism and I don't know of any spacers
which are designed for the abuse we give them. If you just use your Jeep on
the road, they may be okay.
If however, you use it offroad... don't even consider wheel spacers.
If you want to extend your track width, do it right and purchase wheels with
different offsets OR purchase wider tires.
Kind Regards,
Joe West
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Beckham, Michael [mailto:Michael.Beckham@b...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:14 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
>
>
> Does any one know about wheel spacers? I know you can get
> them for toyotas
> to extend the wheel base, but can you get them for Jeeps so
> you can keep
> your stock wheels? (I admit I like the little jeep symbol on them)
>
> I will now sit back and wait for the abuse...........:)
>
> -
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
36884 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:36am
Subject: RE: Wheel spacers????
I have read, here and there, of a few folks that run them over the rocks and
they have stated they held up OK. I believe they were doing in the
neighborhood of 5/8" spacers. Of course, a good pair of spacers, with the
heavier duty studs, cost a fair amount.....as in more than some folks paid
for their rims. So, some of it boils down to the $$ economics of using them
vs. buying a new rim. A friend of mine was considering a set until he saw
the price. That pretty much stopped him dead in his tracks since the rims
were worth about 1/3 the cost of the spacers.
Joe, I am not going to debate this....but if you can point me to some of the
failure write-ups, I would appreciate it. I would like to pass these along
to my friend.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: JW [mailto:joew@a...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:18 AM
To: 'Beckham, Michael'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
Mike,
Wheel Spacers are a really BAD idea. Using them just introduces another
possible catastrophic failure mechanism and I don't know of any spacers
which are designed for the abuse we give them. If you just use your Jeep on
the road, they may be okay.
If however, you use it offroad... don't even consider wheel spacers.
If you want to extend your track width, do it right and purchase wheels with
different offsets OR purchase wider tires.
Kind Regards,
Joe West
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Beckham, Michael [mailto:Michael.Beckham@b...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:14 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
>
>
> Does any one know about wheel spacers? I know you can get
> them for toyotas
> to extend the wheel base, but can you get them for Jeeps so
> you can keep
> your stock wheels? (I admit I like the little jeep symbol on them)
>
> I will now sit back and wait for the abuse...........:)
>
> -
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
36885 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:39am
Subject: RE: Prefix Suggestion
How about
[FW] = Flame War
<grin>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: neder13 [mailto:azvjc@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:26 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Prefix Suggestion
>
>
> We have the following prefixes in use for the AzVJC mailing list:
>
> [TR] = Trail Run
> [LU] = Land Use
> [FS] = For Sale
> [OT] = Off Topic
> (did I miss any?)
>
> May I suggest one more?
>
> [MB] = More Banter
>
> This way when the thread runs completely off topic instead of having
>
> "Some Newer Subject WAS: Some New Subject WAS: Some Old Subject WAS:
> Some Older Subject..." we can just change the subject line to "[MB]
> Old Subject Line"
>
> Of course we could then also have [MUB] or More Useless Banter... ;)
>
> - Mike
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
36886 From: g_rob_williams <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:40am
Subject: Re: Prefix Suggestion
How about [TQ} Tech Question?? -Rob
--- In az_vjc@y..., "neder13" <azvjc@a...> wrote:
> We have the following prefixes in use for the AzVJC mailing list:
>
> [TR] = Trail Run
> [LU] = Land Use
> [FS] = For Sale
> [OT] = Off Topic
> (did I miss any?)
>
> May I suggest one more?
>
> [MB] = More Banter
>
> This way when the thread runs completely off topic instead of having
>
> "Some Newer Subject WAS: Some New Subject WAS: Some Old Subject
WAS:
> Some Older Subject..." we can just change the subject line to "[MB]
> Old Subject Line"
>
> Of course we could then also have [MUB] or More Useless Banter... ;)
>
> - Mike
36887 From: Robert Holmes <flamable_liquid@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:42am
Subject: Coves Pictures ?
I was curious if any of you have any pictures of the coves up on photopoint
or whatever it is that you use. Im taking some friends out there after
christmas and their nurvous because of the way our jeep is set up (most of
the run stock vehicles) I was looking for one or two reassuring pictures and
possibly one really "good" picture (you know the ones you have to explain).
Anyway if any of you could help me out id appreciate it
~Robert Holmes
__________________________________________________ _______________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
36888 From: Blake Shepherd <shepherdblake@y...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:43am
Subject: Re: Howell Injection
Ross,
What engine do yo have? I am running a small block in
mine. I also am @!#!$ sick of the old carb.
Blake
80CJ5
01 TJ
--- Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...> wrote:
> I finally have my injection. Anyone have
> recommendations on install write
> ups or significant issues with their install.
>
> I can't wait, man am I sick of being 90% up a big
> A%^ waterfall and being
> stuck there.
>
> Ross
> 84 CJ7
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
36889 From: Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:39am
Subject: RE: Howell Injection
Six banger 258. 1984...55k original miles.
Ross
-----Original Message-----
From: Blake Shepherd [mailto:shepherdblake@y...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:43 AM
To: Ross Skinner; AZVJC (E-mail)
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Howell Injection
Ross,
What engine do yo have? I am running a small block in
mine. I also am @!#!$ sick of the old carb.
Blake
80CJ5
01 TJ
--- Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...> wrote:
> I finally have my injection. Anyone have
> recommendations on install write
> ups or significant issues with their install.
>
> I can't wait, man am I sick of being 90% up a big
> A%^ waterfall and being
> stuck there.
>
> Ross
> 84 CJ7
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
36890 From: sun666_98 <brent_lizakowski@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:47am
Subject: Re: Wheel spacers????
Stockton Wheel does:
http://www.stocktonwheel.com/4x4wheels.htm
They'll build them to your specs as well.
Brent
--- In az_vjc@y..., "g_rob_williams" <g_rob_williams@y...> wrote:
> They do make aftermarket wheels with the Jeep logo on them, I think
I
> either saw them in the quadratec or 4wheel hardware catalogs. -Rob
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Beckham, Michael" <Michael.Beckham@b...> wrote:
> > Does any one know about wheel spacers? I know you can get them
for
> toyotas
> > to extend the wheel base, but can you get them for Jeeps so you
can
> keep
> > your stock wheels? (I admit I like the little jeep symbol on them)
> >
> > I will now sit back and wait for the abuse...........:)
> >
> > -
36891 From: msa12171 <msa12171@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:57am
Subject: Re: Prefix Suggestion
Only if you're gay.
--- In az_vjc@y..., "JW" <joew@a...> wrote:
> How about
> [FW] = Flame War
> <grin>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: neder13 [mailto:azvjc@a...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:26 AM
> > To: az_vjc@y...
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Prefix Suggestion
> >
> >
> > We have the following prefixes in use for the AzVJC mailing list:
> >
> > [TR] = Trail Run
> > [LU] = Land Use
> > [FS] = For Sale
> > [OT] = Off Topic
> > (did I miss any?)
> >
> > May I suggest one more?
> >
> > [MB] = More Banter
> >
> > This way when the thread runs completely off topic instead of
having
> >
> > "Some Newer Subject WAS: Some New Subject WAS: Some Old Subject
WAS:
> > Some Older Subject..." we can just change the subject line
to "[MB]
> > Old Subject Line"
> >
> > Of course we could then also have [MUB] or More Useless
Banter... ;)
> >
> > - Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
36892 From: Chatfield, Mike <Mike@A...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:59am
Subject: What Vehicles Had Wider D30's?
Ok, since my project vehicle is going to take a couple of years, and since last weekend I discovered that I really like 36" swampers...
I'm looking for a Passenger Side Drop D30 that would be about 60" to 63" wide (WMS to WMS) Does anyone have any idea if such a monster exists? (I think the TJ's and YJ's are about 60" wide, but drivers side drop...)
I know I could grab a D44 Waggy front, but I'm looking to do this for as little as possible. (Since this isn't going to be my long term vehicle)
I already have an AMC20 Waggy axle that is 61" WMS to WMS, my only other alternative is getting Wide Track CJ housings (F&R) anyone have a set they'd be willing to part with cheap?
Another alternative I have thought about is cutting and lengthening the tubes of my D30 axle and then using TJ axleshafts, swapping the sides of course. Anyone know of a shop that could do this and keep the tubes straight and the caster angle correct?
- Mike
36893 From: <jraya@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:51am
Subject: Re: Wheel spacers????
We run 1 1/2" wheel spacers on our narrow track 1980 CJ-7 for the past
two
years with absolutley no problems. At first we tried to find negative
offset
STEEL wheels and we were unable to find any ,there were a few in
Aluminum. We
opted for the wheel spacers from Performance Wheel & Tire they are made
from
6061-T6 aircraft aluminum. We run Run 35" tires Detroit in the rear and
a
truetrac in front and have had not a hint of any problems. Last year we
paid
$285.00 for a set of 4 , my husband being a ,machinist was looking into
making
them to save money, the material alone was about what we could buy the
completed product for. Hope this helps. I also would be interested in
any
negative articles on wheel spacers.
Thanks Judy
"Beckham, Michael" wrote:
> Does any one know about wheel spacers? I know you can get them for toyotas
> to extend the wheel base, but can you get them for Jeeps so you can keep
> your stock wheels? (I admit I like the little jeep symbol on them)
>
> I will now sit back and wait for the abuse...........:)
>
> -
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
36894 From: Nick <nnote@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 9:11am
Subject: Prefix
How about [Isstpmttopimfbisita6a] For>
I should send this personal message to the one person it's meant for but I'll send it to all 600 azvjcrs.
Nick
:)
36895 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 9:22am
Subject: RE: Wheel spacers????
Stu,
I haven't looked up any failures... my comments concerning spacers come
simply from the physics of adding spacers and nothing more. If you add
spacers, you have simply introduced another failure mechanism into a fairly
important system (assuming that keeping your wheels on is important <grin>).
Wheel spacers are a kludge... a band-aid... something best left to street
Jeeps. Here's just a small example; Most of the spacers I have seen are
aluminum spacers with steel studs. Ultimately, galvanic corrosion will cause
this setup to fail and the studs to pull out of the spacer plate. Do you
think that most people who use spacers even KNOW about galvanic corrosion?
Do you think that they care? Probably not. If the spacers are made out of
steel... then this problem goes away, and you next have to deal with
doubling the number of lug nuts you have which hold on your wheels... how
many people want to check the torque of the wheel spacers each time they
install their wheels... 10 lug nuts instead of 5 per wheel (and not 10 lug
nuts in parallel holding the wheel on which (in a simple analysis) would
reduce the failure rate of the retaining system by a factor of two... but
rather, two sets of 5 lug nuts in parallel which (in a simple analysis)
would DOUBLE the failure rate of the retaining system).
My paranoia about such things comes from working in the aerospace industry
and flying aircraft... when your life depends on the quality of a simple
mechanical system (such as wheel attachment), it doesn't make sense to add
in complexity and potentially serious failure points when you don't have to.
In summary, previous failures or not; wheel spacers are an incredibly bad
idea.
Kind Regards,
Joe West
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:37 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
>
>
> I have read, here and there, of a few folks that run them
> over the rocks and
> they have stated they held up OK. I believe they were doing in the
> neighborhood of 5/8" spacers. Of course, a good pair of
> spacers, with the
> heavier duty studs, cost a fair amount.....as in more than
> some folks paid
> for their rims. So, some of it boils down to the $$
> economics of using them
> vs. buying a new rim. A friend of mine was considering a set
> until he saw
> the price. That pretty much stopped him dead in his tracks
> since the rims
> were worth about 1/3 the cost of the spacers.
>
> Joe, I am not going to debate this....but if you can point me
> to some of the
> failure write-ups, I would appreciate it. I would like to
> pass these along
> to my friend.
>
> Stu
>
>
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JW [mailto:joew@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:18 AM
> To: 'Beckham, Michael'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
>
>
> Mike,
>
> Wheel Spacers are a really BAD idea. Using them just
> introduces another
> possible catastrophic failure mechanism and I don't know of
> any spacers
> which are designed for the abuse we give them. If you just
> use your Jeep on
> the road, they may be okay.
> If however, you use it offroad... don't even consider wheel spacers.
>
> If you want to extend your track width, do it right and
> purchase wheels with
> different offsets OR purchase wider tires.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Joe West
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Beckham, Michael [mailto:Michael.Beckham@b...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:14 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
> >
> >
> > Does any one know about wheel spacers? I know you can get
> > them for toyotas
> > to extend the wheel base, but can you get them for Jeeps so
> > you can keep
> > your stock wheels? (I admit I like the little jeep symbol on them)
> >
> > I will now sit back and wait for the abuse...........:)
> >
> > -
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
36896 From: jaylalib <jaylalib@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 9:45am
Subject: Re: Prefix
But what would I do at work when it's slow, if I didn't have all of
these entertaining posts to read???????
:}
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Nick" <nnote@a...> wrote:
> How about [Isstpmttopimfbisita6a] For>
>
> I should send this personal message to the one person it's meant
for but I'll send it to all 600 azvjcrs.
> Nick
>
> :)
36897 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 10:01am
Subject: Re: Wheel spacers????
There are spacers that simply fit over your existing lugs. Assuming
your lugs are long enough or you replace them with longer lugs, you
don't increase the number of lug nuts you have to put on and take off
and you don't have the dissimilar metals thing cause lugs to separate
from the spacer. But you still have the increased leverage on the lugs.
But, like Stu, I've only heard of success stories from people using
spacers. In fact, a friend has had 1/2" spacers on his rear axle
for at least a couple years and hasn't had any problems so far.
-Roger
JW wrote:
>
> Stu,
>
> I haven't looked up any failures... my comments concerning spacers come
> simply from the physics of adding spacers and nothing more. If you add
> spacers, you have simply introduced another failure mechanism into a fairly
> important system (assuming that keeping your wheels on is important <grin>).
>
> Wheel spacers are a kludge... a band-aid... something best left to street
> Jeeps. Here's just a small example; Most of the spacers I have seen are
> aluminum spacers with steel studs. Ultimately, galvanic corrosion will cause
> this setup to fail and the studs to pull out of the spacer plate. Do you
> think that most people who use spacers even KNOW about galvanic corrosion?
> Do you think that they care? Probably not. If the spacers are made out of
> steel... then this problem goes away, and you next have to deal with
> doubling the number of lug nuts you have which hold on your wheels... how
> many people want to check the torque of the wheel spacers each time they
> install their wheels... 10 lug nuts instead of 5 per wheel (and not 10 lug
> nuts in parallel holding the wheel on which (in a simple analysis) would
> reduce the failure rate of the retaining system by a factor of two... but
> rather, two sets of 5 lug nuts in parallel which (in a simple analysis)
> would DOUBLE the failure rate of the retaining system).
>
> My paranoia about such things comes from working in the aerospace industry
> and flying aircraft... when your life depends on the quality of a simple
> mechanical system (such as wheel attachment), it doesn't make sense to add
> in complexity and potentially serious failure points when you don't have to.
>
> In summary, previous failures or not; wheel spacers are an incredibly bad
> idea.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Joe West
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:37 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
> >
> >
> > I have read, here and there, of a few folks that run them
> > over the rocks and
> > they have stated they held up OK. I believe they were doing in the
> > neighborhood of 5/8" spacers. Of course, a good pair of
> > spacers, with the
> > heavier duty studs, cost a fair amount.....as in more than
> > some folks paid
> > for their rims. So, some of it boils down to the $$
> > economics of using them
> > vs. buying a new rim. A friend of mine was considering a set
> > until he saw
> > the price. That pretty much stopped him dead in his tracks
> > since the rims
> > were worth about 1/3 the cost of the spacers.
> >
> > Joe, I am not going to debate this....but if you can point me
> > to some of the
> > failure write-ups, I would appreciate it. I would like to
> > pass these along
> > to my friend.
> >
> > Stu
36898 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 10:02am
Subject: RE: Wheel spacers????
Joe,
No response here....as I said, I was just hoping to pass along some info to
my friend.
Thanks anyways.....Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: JW [mailto:joew@a...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 10:23 AM
To: 'Stu Olson'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
Stu,
I haven't looked up any failures... my comments concerning spacers come
simply from the physics of adding spacers and nothing more. If you add
spacers, you have simply introduced another failure mechanism into a fairly
important system (assuming that keeping your wheels on is important <grin>).
Wheel spacers are a kludge... a band-aid... something best left to street
Jeeps. Here's just a small example; Most of the spacers I have seen are
aluminum spacers with steel studs. Ultimately, galvanic corrosion will cause
this setup to fail and the studs to pull out of the spacer plate. Do you
think that most people who use spacers even KNOW about galvanic corrosion?
Do you think that they care? Probably not. If the spacers are made out of
steel... then this problem goes away, and you next have to deal with
doubling the number of lug nuts you have which hold on your wheels... how
many people want to check the torque of the wheel spacers each time they
install their wheels... 10 lug nuts instead of 5 per wheel (and not 10 lug
nuts in parallel holding the wheel on which (in a simple analysis) would
reduce the failure rate of the retaining system by a factor of two... but
rather, two sets of 5 lug nuts in parallel which (in a simple analysis)
would DOUBLE the failure rate of the retaining system).
My paranoia about such things comes from working in the aerospace industry
and flying aircraft... when your life depends on the quality of a simple
mechanical system (such as wheel attachment), it doesn't make sense to add
in complexity and potentially serious failure points when you don't have to.
In summary, previous failures or not; wheel spacers are an incredibly bad
idea.
Kind Regards,
Joe West
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:37 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
>
>
> I have read, here and there, of a few folks that run them
> over the rocks and
> they have stated they held up OK. I believe they were doing in the
> neighborhood of 5/8" spacers. Of course, a good pair of
> spacers, with the
> heavier duty studs, cost a fair amount.....as in more than
> some folks paid
> for their rims. So, some of it boils down to the $$
> economics of using them
> vs. buying a new rim. A friend of mine was considering a set
> until he saw
> the price. That pretty much stopped him dead in his tracks
> since the rims
> were worth about 1/3 the cost of the spacers.
>
> Joe, I am not going to debate this....but if you can point me
> to some of the
> failure write-ups, I would appreciate it. I would like to
> pass these along
> to my friend.
>
> Stu
>
>
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JW [mailto:joew@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:18 AM
> To: 'Beckham, Michael'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
>
>
> Mike,
>
> Wheel Spacers are a really BAD idea. Using them just
> introduces another
> possible catastrophic failure mechanism and I don't know of
> any spacers
> which are designed for the abuse we give them. If you just
> use your Jeep on
> the road, they may be okay.
> If however, you use it offroad... don't even consider wheel spacers.
>
> If you want to extend your track width, do it right and
> purchase wheels with
> different offsets OR purchase wider tires.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Joe West
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Beckham, Michael [mailto:Michael.Beckham@b...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:14 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
> >
> >
> > Does any one know about wheel spacers? I know you can get
> > them for toyotas
> > to extend the wheel base, but can you get them for Jeeps so
> > you can keep
> > your stock wheels? (I admit I like the little jeep symbol on them)
> >
> > I will now sit back and wait for the abuse...........:)
> >
> > -
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
36899 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 10:02am
Subject: RE: Wheel spacers????
Hi Stu,
Feel free to pass along my comments to her/him. Perhaps they will help.
Joe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:02 AM
> To: joew@a...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
>
>
> Joe,
>
> No response here....as I said, I was just hoping to pass
> along some info to
> my friend.
>
> Thanks anyways.....Stu
>
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JW [mailto:joew@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 10:23 AM
> To: 'Stu Olson'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
>
>
> Stu,
>
> I haven't looked up any failures... my comments concerning
> spacers come
> simply from the physics of adding spacers and nothing more.
> If you add
> spacers, you have simply introduced another failure mechanism
> into a fairly
> important system (assuming that keeping your wheels on is
> important <grin>).
>
> Wheel spacers are a kludge... a band-aid... something best
> left to street
> Jeeps. Here's just a small example; Most of the spacers I
> have seen are
> aluminum spacers with steel studs. Ultimately, galvanic
> corrosion will cause
> this setup to fail and the studs to pull out of the spacer
> plate. Do you
> think that most people who use spacers even KNOW about
> galvanic corrosion?
> Do you think that they care? Probably not. If the spacers
> are made out of
> steel... then this problem goes away, and you next have to deal with
> doubling the number of lug nuts you have which hold on your
> wheels... how
> many people want to check the torque of the wheel spacers
> each time they
> install their wheels... 10 lug nuts instead of 5 per wheel
> (and not 10 lug
> nuts in parallel holding the wheel on which (in a simple
> analysis) would
> reduce the failure rate of the retaining system by a factor
> of two... but
> rather, two sets of 5 lug nuts in parallel which (in a simple
> analysis)
> would DOUBLE the failure rate of the retaining system).
>
> My paranoia about such things comes from working in the
> aerospace industry
> and flying aircraft... when your life depends on the quality
> of a simple
> mechanical system (such as wheel attachment), it doesn't make
> sense to add
> in complexity and potentially serious failure points when you
> don't have to.
>
> In summary, previous failures or not; wheel spacers are an
> incredibly bad
> idea.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Joe West
>
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:37 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
> >
> >
> > I have read, here and there, of a few folks that run them
> > over the rocks and
> > they have stated they held up OK. I believe they were doing in the
> > neighborhood of 5/8" spacers. Of course, a good pair of
> > spacers, with the
> > heavier duty studs, cost a fair amount.....as in more than
> > some folks paid
> > for their rims. So, some of it boils down to the $$
> > economics of using them
> > vs. buying a new rim. A friend of mine was considering a set
> > until he saw
> > the price. That pretty much stopped him dead in his tracks
> > since the rims
> > were worth about 1/3 the cost of the spacers.
> >
> > Joe, I am not going to debate this....but if you can point me
> > to some of the
> > failure write-ups, I would appreciate it. I would like to
> > pass these along
> > to my friend.
> >
> > Stu
> >
> >
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: JW [mailto:joew@a...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:18 AM
> > To: 'Beckham, Michael'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
> >
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > Wheel Spacers are a really BAD idea. Using them just
> > introduces another
> > possible catastrophic failure mechanism and I don't know of
> > any spacers
> > which are designed for the abuse we give them. If you just
> > use your Jeep on
> > the road, they may be okay.
> > If however, you use it offroad... don't even consider wheel spacers.
> >
> > If you want to extend your track width, do it right and
> > purchase wheels with
> > different offsets OR purchase wider tires.
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> >
> > Joe West
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Beckham, Michael [mailto:Michael.Beckham@b...]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:14 AM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
> > >
> > >
> > > Does any one know about wheel spacers? I know you can get
> > > them for toyotas
> > > to extend the wheel base, but can you get them for Jeeps so
> > > you can keep
> > > your stock wheels? (I admit I like the little jeep symbol on them)
> > >
> > > I will now sit back and wait for the abuse...........:)
> > >
> > > -
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
36900 From: jeeperaz <jeeperaz@b...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 10:15am
Subject: Re: Howell Injection
It's been awhile since I've installed the Howell kit on my old 258
but if you want help let me know.
Your best bet is to join this other Yahoo group...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homegrown_TBI/
Most of those guys on it are Jeep owners who have the Howell kit. The
rest of the guys have built their own systems from salvage yard
parts. They have seen most every problem or issue and should be able
to help if needed.
Ross you have aftermarket ignition (jacobs) right? This might be an
area that gives you a small problem. Might want to call Howell and
see if there is anything you need to know ahead of time. The Howell
kit needs a 'tach' signal.
Good Luck,
Larry
--- In az_vjc@y..., Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...> wrote:
> I finally have my injection. Anyone have recommendations on
install write
> ups or significant issues with their install.
>
> I can't wait, man am I sick of being 90% up a big A%^ waterfall
and being
> stuck there.
>
> Ross
> 84 CJ7
36876 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:15am
Subject: RE: Re: BulletProof is still expensive!
<grin>
Turns out I screwed up twice... First when I thought the BulletProof price
included the bumper, and second, when I thought the OR fab price included
the bumper <grin>
I guess that's kind of like a double negative which brings us back to the
fact that the BP and OR prices are about the same.
But you are right, I was stating that I threw out an incorrect statement
when I said the BP price included the bumper.
Since both OR and BP setups run around $700... I guess I'll stick with my
opinion that BP is a much better choice... even if it is only for the
lifetime guarantee.
Joe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaylalib [mailto:jaylalib@h...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 8:57 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: BulletProof is still expensive!
>
>
> So what you are saying Joe is that nevermind all those emails or "My
> Bad" <Grin>
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "JW" <joew@a...> wrote:
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > Just a quick note to let you know that BulletProof's bumper did NOT
> drop in
> > price... the price shown in their latest price list ($466) for the
> spare
> > tire carrier DOES NOT include the bumper. The bumper itself is an
> > additional $256. This was my mistake in looking at their price
> list...
> >
> > So... for those of you who are looking at the OR setup; there is
> your reason
> > to purchase it. It is MUCH less expensive than the BulletProof
> setup.
> >
> > Kind Regards
> >
> > Joe West
> >
> > PS. Who started this thread?
> > <grin>
> >
> >
> ************************************************** ********************
> ******
> > ****************************
> > *Some days it just isn't worth the effort to gnaw through the
> restraints and
> > clamber up out of the pit.*
> >
> ************************************************** ********************
> ******
> > ****************************
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
36877 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:16am
Subject: Re: BulletProof is still expensive!
Jack As$!!! ;)
Mike Baney
--- In az_vjc@y..., "JW" <joew@a...> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Just a quick note to let you know that BulletProof's bumper did NOT
drop in
> price... the price shown in their latest price list ($466) for the
spare
> tire carrier DOES NOT include the bumper. The bumper itself is an
> additional $256. This was my mistake in looking at their price
list...
>
> So... for those of you who are looking at the OR setup; there is
your reason
> to purchase it. It is MUCH less expensive than the BulletProof
setup.
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Joe West
>
> PS. Who started this thread?
> <grin>
>
>
************************************************** ********************
******
> ****************************
> *Some days it just isn't worth the effort to gnaw through the
restraints and
> clamber up out of the pit.*
>
************************************************** ********************
******
> ****************************
36878 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:17am
Subject: RE: Wheel spacers????
Mike,
Wheel Spacers are a really BAD idea. Using them just introduces another
possible catastrophic failure mechanism and I don't know of any spacers
which are designed for the abuse we give them. If you just use your Jeep on
the road, they may be okay.
If however, you use it offroad... don't even consider wheel spacers.
If you want to extend your track width, do it right and purchase wheels with
different offsets OR purchase wider tires.
Kind Regards,
Joe West
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Beckham, Michael [mailto:Michael.Beckham@b...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:14 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
>
>
> Does any one know about wheel spacers? I know you can get
> them for toyotas
> to extend the wheel base, but can you get them for Jeeps so
> you can keep
> your stock wheels? (I admit I like the little jeep symbol on them)
>
> I will now sit back and wait for the abuse...........:)
>
> -
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
36879 From: Robert Holmes <flamable_liquid@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:19am
Subject: Re: Build-it-yourself bumpers are WAY less expensive and Infinitely BETTER than anything else!!! was: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
And rock-sliders, and fenders, and bell housing, get a bigger motor, get a
grany trany, And while you're at it, re-design your frame. What they know in
Detriot anyway. They've never been out here.
~Rob Holmes
>From: "Robert Holmes" <flamable_liquid@h...>
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: Build-it-yourself bumpers are WAY less expensive and
>Infinitely BETTER than anything else!!! was: RE: [az_vjc] Bulletproof is
>LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:09:43
>
>Id have to say we are huge fans of building our own bumpers,
>And skid plate, axel truss, roll cage, winch mount. Buy a welder.
>Take a class. There's nothing more macho than bonding steel.
>Ug-ug.
>
>~Rob Holmes
>
>
>
> >From: "mt_b" <mt_b@y...>
> >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: Build-it-yourself bumpers are WAY less expensive and
> >Infinitely BETTER than anything else!!! was: RE: [az_vjc] Bulletproof is
> >LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
> >Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 14:38:45 -0000
> >
> >Yes...but do you have no doors and no top by choice, or because they
> >don't fit! :)
> >
> >Dan
> >
> >--- In az_vjc@y..., Tom LaFrance <tlafrance@j...> wrote:
> > > Joe,
> > >
> > > LOL, LOL :-)
> > >
> > > No manliness comparisons!
> > >
> > > Well, not unless you have no doors, no top, no heat, no a/c AND have
> > > fabricated your own bumpers. Manual transmission, brakes and
> >steering
> > > MAY be required in some cases to compensate for lack of manliness.
> > >
> > > Tom
> > > "Coils make good barstools"
> > >
> > > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 21:41:34 -0700 "Joe W" <arizonajeep@h...>
> >writes:
> > > > Hey!
> > > >
> > > > I think that Scott Kruize's used his Jeep offroad twice (maybe).
> > > > Does this make HIM a real man?
> > > > <grin>
> > > >
> > > > "Coils make good chair supports when old,
> > > > YJ's you just toss in the garbage"
> > > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > "Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who don't"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________ _______________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________ _______________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
36880 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:20am
Subject: Re: BulletProof is still expensive!
See Joe, thats what happens when you get married, you start thinking
with the wrong head!
Mike Baney
--- In az_vjc@y..., "JW" <joew@a...> wrote:
> <grin>
>
> Turns out I screwed up twice... First when I thought the
BulletProof price
> included the bumper, and second, when I thought the OR fab price
included
> the bumper <grin>
>
> I guess that's kind of like a double negative which brings us back
to the
> fact that the BP and OR prices are about the same.
>
> But you are right, I was stating that I threw out an incorrect
statement
> when I said the BP price included the bumper.
>
> Since both OR and BP setups run around $700... I guess I'll stick
with my
> opinion that BP is a much better choice... even if it is only for
the
> lifetime guarantee.
>
> Joe
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jaylalib [mailto:jaylalib@h...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 8:57 AM
> > To: az_vjc@y...
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: BulletProof is still expensive!
> >
> >
> > So what you are saying Joe is that nevermind all those emails
or "My
> > Bad" <Grin>
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., "JW" <joew@a...> wrote:
> > > Hi Everyone,
> > >
> > > Just a quick note to let you know that BulletProof's bumper did
NOT
> > drop in
> > > price... the price shown in their latest price list ($466) for
the
> > spare
> > > tire carrier DOES NOT include the bumper. The bumper itself is
an
> > > additional $256. This was my mistake in looking at their price
> > list...
> > >
> > > So... for those of you who are looking at the OR setup; there is
> > your reason
> > > to purchase it. It is MUCH less expensive than the BulletProof
> > setup.
> > >
> > > Kind Regards
> > >
> > > Joe West
> > >
> > > PS. Who started this thread?
> > > <grin>
> > >
> > >
> >
************************************************** ********************
> > ******
> > > ****************************
> > > *Some days it just isn't worth the effort to gnaw through the
> > restraints and
> > > clamber up out of the pit.*
> > >
> >
************************************************** ********************
> > ******
> > > ****************************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
36881 From: neder13 <azvjc@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:25am
Subject: Prefix Suggestion
We have the following prefixes in use for the AzVJC mailing list:
[TR] = Trail Run
[LU] = Land Use
[FS] = For Sale
[OT] = Off Topic
(did I miss any?)
May I suggest one more?
[MB] = More Banter
This way when the thread runs completely off topic instead of having
"Some Newer Subject WAS: Some New Subject WAS: Some Old Subject WAS:
Some Older Subject..." we can just change the subject line to "[MB]
Old Subject Line"
Of course we could then also have [MUB] or More Useless Banter... ;)
- Mike
36882 From: g_rob_williams <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:33am
Subject: Re: Wheel spacers????
They do make aftermarket wheels with the Jeep logo on them, I think I
either saw them in the quadratec or 4wheel hardware catalogs. -Rob
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Beckham, Michael" <Michael.Beckham@b...> wrote:
> Does any one know about wheel spacers? I know you can get them for
toyotas
> to extend the wheel base, but can you get them for Jeeps so you can
keep
> your stock wheels? (I admit I like the little jeep symbol on them)
>
> I will now sit back and wait for the abuse...........:)
>
> -
36883 From: Scott Thomas <sthomas@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:34am
Subject: RE: Wheel spacers????
I have to agree with Joe about not running spacers. You can get off set
rims fairly cheap without the worry of breaking something else farther down
the road.
Scott Thomas
97' Tj
-----Original Message-----
From: JW [mailto:joew@a...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:18 AM
To: 'Beckham, Michael'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
Mike,
Wheel Spacers are a really BAD idea. Using them just introduces another
possible catastrophic failure mechanism and I don't know of any spacers
which are designed for the abuse we give them. If you just use your Jeep on
the road, they may be okay.
If however, you use it offroad... don't even consider wheel spacers.
If you want to extend your track width, do it right and purchase wheels with
different offsets OR purchase wider tires.
Kind Regards,
Joe West
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Beckham, Michael [mailto:Michael.Beckham@b...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:14 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
>
>
> Does any one know about wheel spacers? I know you can get
> them for toyotas
> to extend the wheel base, but can you get them for Jeeps so
> you can keep
> your stock wheels? (I admit I like the little jeep symbol on them)
>
> I will now sit back and wait for the abuse...........:)
>
> -
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
36884 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:36am
Subject: RE: Wheel spacers????
I have read, here and there, of a few folks that run them over the rocks and
they have stated they held up OK. I believe they were doing in the
neighborhood of 5/8" spacers. Of course, a good pair of spacers, with the
heavier duty studs, cost a fair amount.....as in more than some folks paid
for their rims. So, some of it boils down to the $$ economics of using them
vs. buying a new rim. A friend of mine was considering a set until he saw
the price. That pretty much stopped him dead in his tracks since the rims
were worth about 1/3 the cost of the spacers.
Joe, I am not going to debate this....but if you can point me to some of the
failure write-ups, I would appreciate it. I would like to pass these along
to my friend.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: JW [mailto:joew@a...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:18 AM
To: 'Beckham, Michael'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
Mike,
Wheel Spacers are a really BAD idea. Using them just introduces another
possible catastrophic failure mechanism and I don't know of any spacers
which are designed for the abuse we give them. If you just use your Jeep on
the road, they may be okay.
If however, you use it offroad... don't even consider wheel spacers.
If you want to extend your track width, do it right and purchase wheels with
different offsets OR purchase wider tires.
Kind Regards,
Joe West
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Beckham, Michael [mailto:Michael.Beckham@b...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:14 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
>
>
> Does any one know about wheel spacers? I know you can get
> them for toyotas
> to extend the wheel base, but can you get them for Jeeps so
> you can keep
> your stock wheels? (I admit I like the little jeep symbol on them)
>
> I will now sit back and wait for the abuse...........:)
>
> -
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
36885 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:39am
Subject: RE: Prefix Suggestion
How about
[FW] = Flame War
<grin>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: neder13 [mailto:azvjc@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:26 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Prefix Suggestion
>
>
> We have the following prefixes in use for the AzVJC mailing list:
>
> [TR] = Trail Run
> [LU] = Land Use
> [FS] = For Sale
> [OT] = Off Topic
> (did I miss any?)
>
> May I suggest one more?
>
> [MB] = More Banter
>
> This way when the thread runs completely off topic instead of having
>
> "Some Newer Subject WAS: Some New Subject WAS: Some Old Subject WAS:
> Some Older Subject..." we can just change the subject line to "[MB]
> Old Subject Line"
>
> Of course we could then also have [MUB] or More Useless Banter... ;)
>
> - Mike
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
36886 From: g_rob_williams <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:40am
Subject: Re: Prefix Suggestion
How about [TQ} Tech Question?? -Rob
--- In az_vjc@y..., "neder13" <azvjc@a...> wrote:
> We have the following prefixes in use for the AzVJC mailing list:
>
> [TR] = Trail Run
> [LU] = Land Use
> [FS] = For Sale
> [OT] = Off Topic
> (did I miss any?)
>
> May I suggest one more?
>
> [MB] = More Banter
>
> This way when the thread runs completely off topic instead of having
>
> "Some Newer Subject WAS: Some New Subject WAS: Some Old Subject
WAS:
> Some Older Subject..." we can just change the subject line to "[MB]
> Old Subject Line"
>
> Of course we could then also have [MUB] or More Useless Banter... ;)
>
> - Mike
36887 From: Robert Holmes <flamable_liquid@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:42am
Subject: Coves Pictures ?
I was curious if any of you have any pictures of the coves up on photopoint
or whatever it is that you use. Im taking some friends out there after
christmas and their nurvous because of the way our jeep is set up (most of
the run stock vehicles) I was looking for one or two reassuring pictures and
possibly one really "good" picture (you know the ones you have to explain).
Anyway if any of you could help me out id appreciate it
~Robert Holmes
__________________________________________________ _______________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
36888 From: Blake Shepherd <shepherdblake@y...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:43am
Subject: Re: Howell Injection
Ross,
What engine do yo have? I am running a small block in
mine. I also am @!#!$ sick of the old carb.
Blake
80CJ5
01 TJ
--- Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...> wrote:
> I finally have my injection. Anyone have
> recommendations on install write
> ups or significant issues with their install.
>
> I can't wait, man am I sick of being 90% up a big
> A%^ waterfall and being
> stuck there.
>
> Ross
> 84 CJ7
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
36889 From: Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:39am
Subject: RE: Howell Injection
Six banger 258. 1984...55k original miles.
Ross
-----Original Message-----
From: Blake Shepherd [mailto:shepherdblake@y...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:43 AM
To: Ross Skinner; AZVJC (E-mail)
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Howell Injection
Ross,
What engine do yo have? I am running a small block in
mine. I also am @!#!$ sick of the old carb.
Blake
80CJ5
01 TJ
--- Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...> wrote:
> I finally have my injection. Anyone have
> recommendations on install write
> ups or significant issues with their install.
>
> I can't wait, man am I sick of being 90% up a big
> A%^ waterfall and being
> stuck there.
>
> Ross
> 84 CJ7
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
36890 From: sun666_98 <brent_lizakowski@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:47am
Subject: Re: Wheel spacers????
Stockton Wheel does:
http://www.stocktonwheel.com/4x4wheels.htm
They'll build them to your specs as well.
Brent
--- In az_vjc@y..., "g_rob_williams" <g_rob_williams@y...> wrote:
> They do make aftermarket wheels with the Jeep logo on them, I think
I
> either saw them in the quadratec or 4wheel hardware catalogs. -Rob
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Beckham, Michael" <Michael.Beckham@b...> wrote:
> > Does any one know about wheel spacers? I know you can get them
for
> toyotas
> > to extend the wheel base, but can you get them for Jeeps so you
can
> keep
> > your stock wheels? (I admit I like the little jeep symbol on them)
> >
> > I will now sit back and wait for the abuse...........:)
> >
> > -
36891 From: msa12171 <msa12171@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:57am
Subject: Re: Prefix Suggestion
Only if you're gay.
--- In az_vjc@y..., "JW" <joew@a...> wrote:
> How about
> [FW] = Flame War
> <grin>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: neder13 [mailto:azvjc@a...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:26 AM
> > To: az_vjc@y...
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Prefix Suggestion
> >
> >
> > We have the following prefixes in use for the AzVJC mailing list:
> >
> > [TR] = Trail Run
> > [LU] = Land Use
> > [FS] = For Sale
> > [OT] = Off Topic
> > (did I miss any?)
> >
> > May I suggest one more?
> >
> > [MB] = More Banter
> >
> > This way when the thread runs completely off topic instead of
having
> >
> > "Some Newer Subject WAS: Some New Subject WAS: Some Old Subject
WAS:
> > Some Older Subject..." we can just change the subject line
to "[MB]
> > Old Subject Line"
> >
> > Of course we could then also have [MUB] or More Useless
Banter... ;)
> >
> > - Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
36892 From: Chatfield, Mike <Mike@A...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:59am
Subject: What Vehicles Had Wider D30's?
Ok, since my project vehicle is going to take a couple of years, and since last weekend I discovered that I really like 36" swampers...
I'm looking for a Passenger Side Drop D30 that would be about 60" to 63" wide (WMS to WMS) Does anyone have any idea if such a monster exists? (I think the TJ's and YJ's are about 60" wide, but drivers side drop...)
I know I could grab a D44 Waggy front, but I'm looking to do this for as little as possible. (Since this isn't going to be my long term vehicle)
I already have an AMC20 Waggy axle that is 61" WMS to WMS, my only other alternative is getting Wide Track CJ housings (F&R) anyone have a set they'd be willing to part with cheap?
Another alternative I have thought about is cutting and lengthening the tubes of my D30 axle and then using TJ axleshafts, swapping the sides of course. Anyone know of a shop that could do this and keep the tubes straight and the caster angle correct?
- Mike
36893 From: <jraya@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:51am
Subject: Re: Wheel spacers????
We run 1 1/2" wheel spacers on our narrow track 1980 CJ-7 for the past
two
years with absolutley no problems. At first we tried to find negative
offset
STEEL wheels and we were unable to find any ,there were a few in
Aluminum. We
opted for the wheel spacers from Performance Wheel & Tire they are made
from
6061-T6 aircraft aluminum. We run Run 35" tires Detroit in the rear and
a
truetrac in front and have had not a hint of any problems. Last year we
paid
$285.00 for a set of 4 , my husband being a ,machinist was looking into
making
them to save money, the material alone was about what we could buy the
completed product for. Hope this helps. I also would be interested in
any
negative articles on wheel spacers.
Thanks Judy
"Beckham, Michael" wrote:
> Does any one know about wheel spacers? I know you can get them for toyotas
> to extend the wheel base, but can you get them for Jeeps so you can keep
> your stock wheels? (I admit I like the little jeep symbol on them)
>
> I will now sit back and wait for the abuse...........:)
>
> -
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
36894 From: Nick <nnote@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 9:11am
Subject: Prefix
How about [Isstpmttopimfbisita6a] For>
I should send this personal message to the one person it's meant for but I'll send it to all 600 azvjcrs.
Nick
:)
36895 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 9:22am
Subject: RE: Wheel spacers????
Stu,
I haven't looked up any failures... my comments concerning spacers come
simply from the physics of adding spacers and nothing more. If you add
spacers, you have simply introduced another failure mechanism into a fairly
important system (assuming that keeping your wheels on is important <grin>).
Wheel spacers are a kludge... a band-aid... something best left to street
Jeeps. Here's just a small example; Most of the spacers I have seen are
aluminum spacers with steel studs. Ultimately, galvanic corrosion will cause
this setup to fail and the studs to pull out of the spacer plate. Do you
think that most people who use spacers even KNOW about galvanic corrosion?
Do you think that they care? Probably not. If the spacers are made out of
steel... then this problem goes away, and you next have to deal with
doubling the number of lug nuts you have which hold on your wheels... how
many people want to check the torque of the wheel spacers each time they
install their wheels... 10 lug nuts instead of 5 per wheel (and not 10 lug
nuts in parallel holding the wheel on which (in a simple analysis) would
reduce the failure rate of the retaining system by a factor of two... but
rather, two sets of 5 lug nuts in parallel which (in a simple analysis)
would DOUBLE the failure rate of the retaining system).
My paranoia about such things comes from working in the aerospace industry
and flying aircraft... when your life depends on the quality of a simple
mechanical system (such as wheel attachment), it doesn't make sense to add
in complexity and potentially serious failure points when you don't have to.
In summary, previous failures or not; wheel spacers are an incredibly bad
idea.
Kind Regards,
Joe West
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:37 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
>
>
> I have read, here and there, of a few folks that run them
> over the rocks and
> they have stated they held up OK. I believe they were doing in the
> neighborhood of 5/8" spacers. Of course, a good pair of
> spacers, with the
> heavier duty studs, cost a fair amount.....as in more than
> some folks paid
> for their rims. So, some of it boils down to the $$
> economics of using them
> vs. buying a new rim. A friend of mine was considering a set
> until he saw
> the price. That pretty much stopped him dead in his tracks
> since the rims
> were worth about 1/3 the cost of the spacers.
>
> Joe, I am not going to debate this....but if you can point me
> to some of the
> failure write-ups, I would appreciate it. I would like to
> pass these along
> to my friend.
>
> Stu
>
>
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JW [mailto:joew@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:18 AM
> To: 'Beckham, Michael'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
>
>
> Mike,
>
> Wheel Spacers are a really BAD idea. Using them just
> introduces another
> possible catastrophic failure mechanism and I don't know of
> any spacers
> which are designed for the abuse we give them. If you just
> use your Jeep on
> the road, they may be okay.
> If however, you use it offroad... don't even consider wheel spacers.
>
> If you want to extend your track width, do it right and
> purchase wheels with
> different offsets OR purchase wider tires.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Joe West
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Beckham, Michael [mailto:Michael.Beckham@b...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:14 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
> >
> >
> > Does any one know about wheel spacers? I know you can get
> > them for toyotas
> > to extend the wheel base, but can you get them for Jeeps so
> > you can keep
> > your stock wheels? (I admit I like the little jeep symbol on them)
> >
> > I will now sit back and wait for the abuse...........:)
> >
> > -
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
36896 From: jaylalib <jaylalib@h...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 9:45am
Subject: Re: Prefix
But what would I do at work when it's slow, if I didn't have all of
these entertaining posts to read???????
:}
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Nick" <nnote@a...> wrote:
> How about [Isstpmttopimfbisita6a] For>
>
> I should send this personal message to the one person it's meant
for but I'll send it to all 600 azvjcrs.
> Nick
>
> :)
36897 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 10:01am
Subject: Re: Wheel spacers????
There are spacers that simply fit over your existing lugs. Assuming
your lugs are long enough or you replace them with longer lugs, you
don't increase the number of lug nuts you have to put on and take off
and you don't have the dissimilar metals thing cause lugs to separate
from the spacer. But you still have the increased leverage on the lugs.
But, like Stu, I've only heard of success stories from people using
spacers. In fact, a friend has had 1/2" spacers on his rear axle
for at least a couple years and hasn't had any problems so far.
-Roger
JW wrote:
>
> Stu,
>
> I haven't looked up any failures... my comments concerning spacers come
> simply from the physics of adding spacers and nothing more. If you add
> spacers, you have simply introduced another failure mechanism into a fairly
> important system (assuming that keeping your wheels on is important <grin>).
>
> Wheel spacers are a kludge... a band-aid... something best left to street
> Jeeps. Here's just a small example; Most of the spacers I have seen are
> aluminum spacers with steel studs. Ultimately, galvanic corrosion will cause
> this setup to fail and the studs to pull out of the spacer plate. Do you
> think that most people who use spacers even KNOW about galvanic corrosion?
> Do you think that they care? Probably not. If the spacers are made out of
> steel... then this problem goes away, and you next have to deal with
> doubling the number of lug nuts you have which hold on your wheels... how
> many people want to check the torque of the wheel spacers each time they
> install their wheels... 10 lug nuts instead of 5 per wheel (and not 10 lug
> nuts in parallel holding the wheel on which (in a simple analysis) would
> reduce the failure rate of the retaining system by a factor of two... but
> rather, two sets of 5 lug nuts in parallel which (in a simple analysis)
> would DOUBLE the failure rate of the retaining system).
>
> My paranoia about such things comes from working in the aerospace industry
> and flying aircraft... when your life depends on the quality of a simple
> mechanical system (such as wheel attachment), it doesn't make sense to add
> in complexity and potentially serious failure points when you don't have to.
>
> In summary, previous failures or not; wheel spacers are an incredibly bad
> idea.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Joe West
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:37 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
> >
> >
> > I have read, here and there, of a few folks that run them
> > over the rocks and
> > they have stated they held up OK. I believe they were doing in the
> > neighborhood of 5/8" spacers. Of course, a good pair of
> > spacers, with the
> > heavier duty studs, cost a fair amount.....as in more than
> > some folks paid
> > for their rims. So, some of it boils down to the $$
> > economics of using them
> > vs. buying a new rim. A friend of mine was considering a set
> > until he saw
> > the price. That pretty much stopped him dead in his tracks
> > since the rims
> > were worth about 1/3 the cost of the spacers.
> >
> > Joe, I am not going to debate this....but if you can point me
> > to some of the
> > failure write-ups, I would appreciate it. I would like to
> > pass these along
> > to my friend.
> >
> > Stu
36898 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 10:02am
Subject: RE: Wheel spacers????
Joe,
No response here....as I said, I was just hoping to pass along some info to
my friend.
Thanks anyways.....Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: JW [mailto:joew@a...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 10:23 AM
To: 'Stu Olson'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
Stu,
I haven't looked up any failures... my comments concerning spacers come
simply from the physics of adding spacers and nothing more. If you add
spacers, you have simply introduced another failure mechanism into a fairly
important system (assuming that keeping your wheels on is important <grin>).
Wheel spacers are a kludge... a band-aid... something best left to street
Jeeps. Here's just a small example; Most of the spacers I have seen are
aluminum spacers with steel studs. Ultimately, galvanic corrosion will cause
this setup to fail and the studs to pull out of the spacer plate. Do you
think that most people who use spacers even KNOW about galvanic corrosion?
Do you think that they care? Probably not. If the spacers are made out of
steel... then this problem goes away, and you next have to deal with
doubling the number of lug nuts you have which hold on your wheels... how
many people want to check the torque of the wheel spacers each time they
install their wheels... 10 lug nuts instead of 5 per wheel (and not 10 lug
nuts in parallel holding the wheel on which (in a simple analysis) would
reduce the failure rate of the retaining system by a factor of two... but
rather, two sets of 5 lug nuts in parallel which (in a simple analysis)
would DOUBLE the failure rate of the retaining system).
My paranoia about such things comes from working in the aerospace industry
and flying aircraft... when your life depends on the quality of a simple
mechanical system (such as wheel attachment), it doesn't make sense to add
in complexity and potentially serious failure points when you don't have to.
In summary, previous failures or not; wheel spacers are an incredibly bad
idea.
Kind Regards,
Joe West
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:37 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
>
>
> I have read, here and there, of a few folks that run them
> over the rocks and
> they have stated they held up OK. I believe they were doing in the
> neighborhood of 5/8" spacers. Of course, a good pair of
> spacers, with the
> heavier duty studs, cost a fair amount.....as in more than
> some folks paid
> for their rims. So, some of it boils down to the $$
> economics of using them
> vs. buying a new rim. A friend of mine was considering a set
> until he saw
> the price. That pretty much stopped him dead in his tracks
> since the rims
> were worth about 1/3 the cost of the spacers.
>
> Joe, I am not going to debate this....but if you can point me
> to some of the
> failure write-ups, I would appreciate it. I would like to
> pass these along
> to my friend.
>
> Stu
>
>
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JW [mailto:joew@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:18 AM
> To: 'Beckham, Michael'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
>
>
> Mike,
>
> Wheel Spacers are a really BAD idea. Using them just
> introduces another
> possible catastrophic failure mechanism and I don't know of
> any spacers
> which are designed for the abuse we give them. If you just
> use your Jeep on
> the road, they may be okay.
> If however, you use it offroad... don't even consider wheel spacers.
>
> If you want to extend your track width, do it right and
> purchase wheels with
> different offsets OR purchase wider tires.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Joe West
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Beckham, Michael [mailto:Michael.Beckham@b...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:14 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
> >
> >
> > Does any one know about wheel spacers? I know you can get
> > them for toyotas
> > to extend the wheel base, but can you get them for Jeeps so
> > you can keep
> > your stock wheels? (I admit I like the little jeep symbol on them)
> >
> > I will now sit back and wait for the abuse...........:)
> >
> > -
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
36899 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 10:02am
Subject: RE: Wheel spacers????
Hi Stu,
Feel free to pass along my comments to her/him. Perhaps they will help.
Joe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:02 AM
> To: joew@a...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
>
>
> Joe,
>
> No response here....as I said, I was just hoping to pass
> along some info to
> my friend.
>
> Thanks anyways.....Stu
>
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JW [mailto:joew@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 10:23 AM
> To: 'Stu Olson'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
>
>
> Stu,
>
> I haven't looked up any failures... my comments concerning
> spacers come
> simply from the physics of adding spacers and nothing more.
> If you add
> spacers, you have simply introduced another failure mechanism
> into a fairly
> important system (assuming that keeping your wheels on is
> important <grin>).
>
> Wheel spacers are a kludge... a band-aid... something best
> left to street
> Jeeps. Here's just a small example; Most of the spacers I
> have seen are
> aluminum spacers with steel studs. Ultimately, galvanic
> corrosion will cause
> this setup to fail and the studs to pull out of the spacer
> plate. Do you
> think that most people who use spacers even KNOW about
> galvanic corrosion?
> Do you think that they care? Probably not. If the spacers
> are made out of
> steel... then this problem goes away, and you next have to deal with
> doubling the number of lug nuts you have which hold on your
> wheels... how
> many people want to check the torque of the wheel spacers
> each time they
> install their wheels... 10 lug nuts instead of 5 per wheel
> (and not 10 lug
> nuts in parallel holding the wheel on which (in a simple
> analysis) would
> reduce the failure rate of the retaining system by a factor
> of two... but
> rather, two sets of 5 lug nuts in parallel which (in a simple
> analysis)
> would DOUBLE the failure rate of the retaining system).
>
> My paranoia about such things comes from working in the
> aerospace industry
> and flying aircraft... when your life depends on the quality
> of a simple
> mechanical system (such as wheel attachment), it doesn't make
> sense to add
> in complexity and potentially serious failure points when you
> don't have to.
>
> In summary, previous failures or not; wheel spacers are an
> incredibly bad
> idea.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Joe West
>
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:37 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
> >
> >
> > I have read, here and there, of a few folks that run them
> > over the rocks and
> > they have stated they held up OK. I believe they were doing in the
> > neighborhood of 5/8" spacers. Of course, a good pair of
> > spacers, with the
> > heavier duty studs, cost a fair amount.....as in more than
> > some folks paid
> > for their rims. So, some of it boils down to the $$
> > economics of using them
> > vs. buying a new rim. A friend of mine was considering a set
> > until he saw
> > the price. That pretty much stopped him dead in his tracks
> > since the rims
> > were worth about 1/3 the cost of the spacers.
> >
> > Joe, I am not going to debate this....but if you can point me
> > to some of the
> > failure write-ups, I would appreciate it. I would like to
> > pass these along
> > to my friend.
> >
> > Stu
> >
> >
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: JW [mailto:joew@a...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:18 AM
> > To: 'Beckham, Michael'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
> >
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > Wheel Spacers are a really BAD idea. Using them just
> > introduces another
> > possible catastrophic failure mechanism and I don't know of
> > any spacers
> > which are designed for the abuse we give them. If you just
> > use your Jeep on
> > the road, they may be okay.
> > If however, you use it offroad... don't even consider wheel spacers.
> >
> > If you want to extend your track width, do it right and
> > purchase wheels with
> > different offsets OR purchase wider tires.
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> >
> > Joe West
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Beckham, Michael [mailto:Michael.Beckham@b...]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:14 AM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Wheel spacers????
> > >
> > >
> > > Does any one know about wheel spacers? I know you can get
> > > them for toyotas
> > > to extend the wheel base, but can you get them for Jeeps so
> > > you can keep
> > > your stock wheels? (I admit I like the little jeep symbol on them)
> > >
> > > I will now sit back and wait for the abuse...........:)
> > >
> > > -
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
36900 From: jeeperaz <jeeperaz@b...>
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2001 10:15am
Subject: Re: Howell Injection
It's been awhile since I've installed the Howell kit on my old 258
but if you want help let me know.
Your best bet is to join this other Yahoo group...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homegrown_TBI/
Most of those guys on it are Jeep owners who have the Howell kit. The
rest of the guys have built their own systems from salvage yard
parts. They have seen most every problem or issue and should be able
to help if needed.
Ross you have aftermarket ignition (jacobs) right? This might be an
area that gives you a small problem. Might want to call Howell and
see if there is anything you need to know ahead of time. The Howell
kit needs a 'tach' signal.
Good Luck,
Larry
--- In az_vjc@y..., Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...> wrote:
> I finally have my injection. Anyone have recommendations on
install write
> ups or significant issues with their install.
>
> I can't wait, man am I sick of being 90% up a big A%^ waterfall
and being
> stuck there.
>
> Ross
> 84 CJ7