blooddrive
01-04-2004, 08:52 AM
36751-36775
36751 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:30pm
Subject: RE: What's that dohicky?
Nick....first question.....are both of the heater hoses that penetrate your firewall hot?
2nd question.....Does the duct work in your YJ use vacuum actuators or are they the manual cable type? Assuming the answer to question #1 is yes, then it sounds as though the proper flapper in the duct is not moving into the correct position to allow air flow across your heater core.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick [mailto:nnote@azboss.net]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:19 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] What's that dohicky?
93 YJ, just above the heater box, that the blower motor is behind, is a plug in. On the inside of the plug in is two coils and a temp sensing diode? Mine was unplugged and so I fiqured that's why I was getting no heat. Well, no luck. Plugged it in and still blowing cold air. I did get my low setting on my blower fan back though!?? I replaced the thermostat, radiator (flushed also & heatercore) and my hoses about eight months ago......
Nick
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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36752 From: Nick <nnote@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:30pm
Subject: Re: What's that dohicky?
All is good that I can tell. When I flushed the system I did the heater
core independently and had good flow through it. Also the hot/cold slider
is working. I even reach over and do it by hand and I get no change.
Nick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Damon Gentile" <dgentile@s...>
To: "Nick" <nnote@a...>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] What's that dohicky?
> I *think* what you are referring to is the ballast resistor to
> slow the heater fand down for low & medium speed.
>
> No heat ? Are you sure that your hot/cold slider is connected
> to the valve and is actually opening ? Any flow through the
> heater hoses ??
>
> -d
>
> > Nick wrote:
> >
> > 93 YJ, just above the heater box, that the blower motor is behind, is
> > a plug in. On the inside of the plug in is two coils and a temp
> > sensing diode? Mine was unplugged and so I fiqured that's why I was
> > getting no heat. Well, no luck. Plugged it in and still blowing cold
> > air. I did get my low setting on my blower fan back though!?? I
> > replaced the thermostat, radiator (flushed also & heatercore) and my
> > hoses about eight months ago......
> > Nick
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
36753 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:30pm
Subject: Re: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Good ole JW is FULL of opinions! :)
Mike
> Oh, lets go out and jump on the Bulletproof is the best stuff in
the world bandwagon:) If i like Bulletproof I would have bought
bulletproof, but since I like Mark and his work at O-R, thats what I
went with. How can you say that Bulletproof is much better quality?
Have you seen one in person(O-R's)? I'd really like to know if this
is just an opinion or a FACT
>
> Mike Beach
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings.
36754 From: Nick <nnote@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:31pm
Subject: Re: What's that dohicky?
I'll check to see if the hoses are hot...That's a good one. I'm sure the duct work is fine but that is my next thing to dive into.
Nick
----- Original Message -----
From: Stu Olson
To: 'Nick' ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:30 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] What's that dohicky?
Nick....first question.....are both of the heater hoses that penetrate your firewall hot?
2nd question.....Does the duct work in your YJ use vacuum actuators or are they the manual cable type? Assuming the answer to question #1 is yes, then it sounds as though the proper flapper in the duct is not moving into the correct position to allow air flow across your heater core.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick [mailto:nnote@azboss.net]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:19 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] What's that dohicky?
93 YJ, just above the heater box, that the blower motor is behind, is a plug in. On the inside of the plug in is two coils and a temp sensing diode? Mine was unplugged and so I fiqured that's why I was getting no heat. Well, no luck. Plugged it in and still blowing cold air. I did get my low setting on my blower fan back though!?? I replaced the thermostat, radiator (flushed also & heatercore) and my hoses about eight months ago......
Nick
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
36755 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:39pm
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
I'm shocked that Joe even considered price.
-----Original Message-----
From: jeepin_in_az [mailto:jeepin_in_az@y...]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:30 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab
Tire carrier
Good ole JW is FULL of opinions! :)
Mike
> Oh, lets go out and jump on the Bulletproof is the best stuff in
the world bandwagon:) If i like Bulletproof I would have bought
bulletproof, but since I like Mark and his work at O-R, thats what I
went with. How can you say that Bulletproof is much better quality?
Have you seen one in person(O-R's)? I'd really like to know if this is
just an opinion or a FACT
>
> Mike Beach
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
36756 From: my1stjeep <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:39pm
Subject: Re: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Shocked Mr. Round Headlight would put something Square on his rig. JW
you sure you own the right model Jeep...LOL? :o)~
Chris
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- In az_vjc@y..., "David R. W. Withers" <dr_ww@h...> wrote:
> I'm shocked that Joe even considered price.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jeepin_in_az [mailto:jeepin_in_az@y...]
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:30 PM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: Re: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab
> Tire carrier
>
>
> Good ole JW is FULL of opinions! :)
>
> Mike
>
>
> > Oh, lets go out and jump on the Bulletproof is the best stuff in
> the world bandwagon:) If i like Bulletproof I would have bought
> bulletproof, but since I like Mark and his work at O-R, thats what I
> went with. How can you say that Bulletproof is much better quality?
> Have you seen one in person(O-R's)? I'd really like to know if this
is
> just an opinion or a FACT
> >
> > Mike Beach
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
36757 From: Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:34pm
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Not sure I can agree about the OR Fab quality issue. I have seen how they
make those bumpers Joe, and I would be amazed if they are built stronger or
better by anyone else in the same price range. Mark built a custom versin
with the same materials for my CJ and it has been slammed hard as you can
imagine. Scuffed paint and thats it. The welds hold my 38.5 SX's and have
had the whole weight of the Jeep sitting on it.
Are you getting Scotts disease? Must have something to do with getting
married...;-)
Ross
-----Original Message-----
From: jeepin_in_az [mailto:jeepin_in_az@y...]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:30 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab
Tire carrier
Good ole JW is FULL of opinions! :)
Mike
> Oh, lets go out and jump on the Bulletproof is the best stuff in
the world bandwagon:) If i like Bulletproof I would have bought
bulletproof, but since I like Mark and his work at O-R, thats what I
went with. How can you say that Bulletproof is much better quality?
Have you seen one in person(O-R's)? I'd really like to know if this
is just an opinion or a FACT
>
> Mike Beach
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
36758 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:40pm
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Joe,
Ya think? Why? I have been investigating styles of bumpers for almost a year now and have been going back and forth between body mounted or bumper mounted. Why do you think the BP is better?
I wonder what your nemesis Stu has to say about his style of bumper.
Stu, Why do you like your bumper? (sorry to drag you into this)
Cost is not an issue because I will be building it myself (With the help of my bro-in-law). If it was the BP with the Lifetime warranty would be the choice.
Joey K
93YJ
www.desertjeep.com
-----Original Message-----
From: JW [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:33 PM
To: 'Mike Beach'; 'bermboy2000'; 'AZVJC'
Subject: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
With the Bulletproof bumper and spare tire carrier running only $466 complete with a lifetime warranty and better quality... why in the WORLD would ANYONE pay $495 for the OR setup? I thought that the OR setup was MUCH less than the Bulletproof bumper. If the OR assembly is $250 then it is a good price... if it really is $495, you should consider Bulletproof.
For anyone considering Bulletproof's setup with a lifetime guarantee... let me know; I have their current pricelist.
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Beach [mailto:mikebeach2002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:19 PM
To: bermboy2000; AZVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
bermboy2000 wrote:
What is up with this? http://www.o-rfab.com/tirecarrier.htm the price
says $495 I went wheeling this weekend with two guys that had them,
and both said it was about 250. Did they double the price or what??
Thanks,
Scott "Iron" Maiden
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Im getting mine installed tommorow by Mark@ O-R Fab, My total came out to 535.15 with tax. I really like the product and think it is well worth the money. I'll take pics, and post them tommorow
MIKE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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36759 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:45pm
Subject: RE: What's that dohicky?
Nick....if I remember correctly, there is a valve assembly, in my heater hose, that controls the flow of hot water through the core. Near to where your hoses penetrate the firewall, look for an in-line valve. It should have some kind of cable actuator on it. (my XJ was like this....and I think my TJ is too). If that valve is not opening, that would explain why you have no heat.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick [mailto:nnote@azboss.net]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:32 PM
To: Stu Olson; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] What's that dohicky?
I'll check to see if the hoses are hot...That's a good one. I'm sure the duct work is fine but that is my next thing to dive into.
Nick
----- Original Message -----
From: Stu Olson
To: 'Nick' ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:30 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] What's that dohicky?
Nick....first question.....are both of the heater hoses that penetrate your firewall hot?
2nd question.....Does the duct work in your YJ use vacuum actuators or are they the manual cable type? Assuming the answer to question #1 is yes, then it sounds as though the proper flapper in the duct is not moving into the correct position to allow air flow across your heater core.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick [mailto:nnote@azboss.net]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:19 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] What's that dohicky?
93 YJ, just above the heater box, that the blower motor is behind, is a plug in. On the inside of the plug in is two coils and a temp sensing diode? Mine was unplugged and so I fiqured that's why I was getting no heat. Well, no luck. Plugged it in and still blowing cold air. I did get my low setting on my blower fan back though!?? I replaced the thermostat, radiator (flushed also & heatercore) and my hoses about eight months ago......
Nick
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
36760 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:46pm
Subject: RE: What's that dohicky?
Nick,
I had another vehicle that had a problem with the heat and AC. The cores were clogged. Not the inside where the water runs but the outside where the air travels thru it. That would be my guess.
Joey K
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick [mailto:nnote@azboss.net]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:32 PM
To: Stu Olson; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] What's that dohicky?
I'll check to see if the hoses are hot...That's a good one. I'm sure the duct work is fine but that is my next thing to dive into.
Nick
----- Original Message -----
From: Stu Olson
To: 'Nick' ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:30 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] What's that dohicky?
Nick....first question.....are both of the heater hoses that penetrate your firewall hot?
2nd question.....Does the duct work in your YJ use vacuum actuators or are they the manual cable type? Assuming the answer to question #1 is yes, then it sounds as though the proper flapper in the duct is not moving into the correct position to allow air flow across your heater core.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick [mailto:nnote@azboss.net]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:19 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] What's that dohicky?
93 YJ, just above the heater box, that the blower motor is behind, is a plug in. On the inside of the plug in is two coils and a temp sensing diode? Mine was unplugged and so I fiqured that's why I was getting no heat. Well, no luck. Plugged it in and still blowing cold air. I did get my low setting on my blower fan back though!?? I replaced the thermostat, radiator (flushed also & heatercore) and my hoses about eight months ago......
Nick
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
36761 From: Lisa Bunch <jeepcj8@h...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:02pm
Subject: Holley 2300 tuning advice needed
Hi all,
I am trying to tune my Holley 2300 500cfm on my 85 CJ w/304 V-8 and 999 A/T. (I know, the carb is too big).
I am using a vacuum gauge and an air/fuel meter. (very cool, btw)
So far I have #66 main jets and a 5.0 power valve. Originally came with #73 jets and 5.0 power valve
Vacuum at idle is 17"Hg
Vacuum at cruise is 15", at cruise I am on the high side of stoich, low side of rich.
Under a load, it goes lean at 7-8"Hg and bogs down.
I am thinking of going to a 7.5 power valve. This may create a re-jet situation on the mains? (Again) Lower, maybe?
Will I ever be able to get this thing dialed in well enough to pass emissions? Should I give up and go to a 350 CFM carb?
Any advice and encouragement is appreciated.
Lisa
1985 CJ-8
36762 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:57pm
Subject: RE: Holley 2300 tuning advice needed
Why do you think a Holley 500cfm is too large? I am not my third Jeep my first two had 304s and I ran Holley 600cfms on them. They ran great.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lisa Bunch [mailto:jeepcj8@home.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 3:02 PM
To: az_vjc
Subject: [az_vjc] Holley 2300 tuning advice needed
Hi all,
I am trying to tune my Holley 2300 500cfm on my 85 CJ w/304 V-8 and 999 A/T. (I know, the carb is too big).
I am using a vacuum gauge and an air/fuel meter. (very cool, btw)
So far I have #66 main jets and a 5.0 power valve. Originally came with #73 jets and 5.0 power valve
Vacuum at idle is 17"Hg
Vacuum at cruise is 15", at cruise I am on the high side of stoich, low side of rich.
Under a load, it goes lean at 7-8"Hg and bogs down.
I am thinking of going to a 7.5 power valve. This may create a re-jet situation on the mains? (Again) Lower, maybe?
Will I ever be able to get this thing dialed in well enough to pass emissions? Should I give up and go to a 350 CFM carb?
Any advice and encouragement is appreciated.
Lisa
1985 CJ-8
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
36763 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:00pm
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Well heck, my cheap ***** bumper isn't made by OR-Fab or BP. It is one of those $150 specials. But....I'm happy with it. It got me through the "hitting everything on the trail with your bumper" phase of Jeepin'.....and now I use it for more specialized things like cracking walnuts (put a walnut on the obstacle and then drop your Jeep on top of it) and other intricate rock crawlin' kind of stuff. ;)
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@desertjeep.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:40 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; 'Stu Olson'
Cc: 'AZVJC'; 'bermboy2000'
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
Joe,
Ya think? Why? I have been investigating styles of bumpers for almost a year now and have been going back and forth between body mounted or bumper mounted. Why do you think the BP is better?
I wonder what your nemesis Stu has to say about his style of bumper.
Stu, Why do you like your bumper? (sorry to drag you into this)
Cost is not an issue because I will be building it myself (With the help of my bro-in-law). If it was the BP with the Lifetime warranty would be the choice.
Joey K
93YJ
www.desertjeep.com
-----Original Message-----
From: JW [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:33 PM
To: 'Mike Beach'; 'bermboy2000'; 'AZVJC'
Subject: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
With the Bulletproof bumper and spare tire carrier running only $466 complete with a lifetime warranty and better quality... why in the WORLD would ANYONE pay $495 for the OR setup? I thought that the OR setup was MUCH less than the Bulletproof bumper. If the OR assembly is $250 then it is a good price... if it really is $495, you should consider Bulletproof.
For anyone considering Bulletproof's setup with a lifetime guarantee... let me know; I have their current pricelist.
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Beach [mailto:mikebeach2002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:19 PM
To: bermboy2000; AZVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
bermboy2000 wrote:
What is up with this? http://www.o-rfab.com/tirecarrier.htm the price
says $495 I went wheeling this weekend with two guys that had them,
and both said it was about 250. Did they double the price or what??
Thanks,
Scott "Iron" Maiden
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Im getting mine installed tommorow by Mark@ O-R Fab, My total came out to 535.15 with tax. I really like the product and think it is well worth the money. I'll take pics, and post them tommorow
MIKE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
36764 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:02pm
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Roger,
Now just WHERE did I call imply that he is an idiot?
Here's what I said:
"With the Bulletproof bumper and spare tire carrier running only $466
complete with a lifetime warranty and better quality... why in the WORLD
would ANYONE pay $495 for the OR setup? I thought that the OR setup was
MUCH less than the Bulletproof bumper. If the OR assembly is $250 then it
is a good price... if it really is $495, you should consider Bulletproof."
Asking why in the WORLD ANYONE would pay that much for an O-R setup is
certainly not an implication of idiotic behavior... but really an emphasized
question which I had hoped someone would answer. I don't believe that it
was uncalled for at all... Perhaps I shouldn't have emphasized the words
WORLD and ANYONE; I'll be more careful next time to ensure I don't hurt
anyone's feelings.
As far as my statement of opinion goes... no... I didn't expect you to take
my word for it. Even if I proved that the OR unit was structurally less
sound (I'm not saying it is) or brought up the fact that they don't have a
lifetime guarantee or... it wouldn't matter. My point was simply, why pay
more for less (in my opinion)?
I'll try to preface all of my statements from here on out with the following
sig:
"The opinions expressed in this email are not statements of fact but rather,
the opinions of the author and are not intended to be taken as statements of
fact unless the author uses the word "Fact" in his statements"
Ciao,
Joe
36765 From: Lisa Bunch <jeepcj8@h...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:14pm
Subject: Re: Holley 2300 tuning advice needed
Ah, but are they 2 bbls or 4bbls? I am working with a 2bbl. I wonder if a 4bbl would be easier to tune. The secondaries could be set to open way late, like having a 2bbl, then a 4bbl when you need it. Apparently, with larger venturies, the airflow is slower, which makes jet changes difficult. Also, I am trying to pass 1985 emissions with this thing...
L...
-----Original Message-----
From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@unisys.com>
To: 'Lisa Bunch' <jeepcj8@home.com>; az_vjc <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:58 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Holley 2300 tuning advice needed
Why do you think a Holley 500cfm is too large? I am not my third Jeep my first two had 304s and I ran Holley 600cfms on them. They ran great.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lisa Bunch [mailto:jeepcj8@home.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 3:02 PM
To: az_vjc
Subject: [az_vjc] Holley 2300 tuning advice needed
Hi all,
I am trying to tune my Holley 2300 500cfm on my 85 CJ w/304 V-8 and 999 A/T. (I know, the carb is too big).
I am using a vacuum gauge and an air/fuel meter. (very cool, btw)
So far I have #66 main jets and a 5.0 power valve. Originally came with #73 jets and 5.0 power valve
Vacuum at idle is 17"Hg
Vacuum at cruise is 15", at cruise I am on the high side of stoich, low side of rich.
Under a load, it goes lean at 7-8"Hg and bogs down.
I am thinking of going to a 7.5 power valve. This may create a re-jet situation on the mains? (Again) Lower, maybe?
Will I ever be able to get this thing dialed in well enough to pass emissions? Should I give up and go to a 350 CFM carb?
Any advice and encouragement is appreciated.
Lisa
1985 CJ-8
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
36766 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:07pm
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Naw Joey... the OR setup couldn't possibly be better.
I'm on page number three of the analysis for Stu which looks at reflected energy vs cable length for CB frequencies... I don't need to get into a NASTRAN analysis of OR's spare tire carrier bumper.
Joe
(If you'd really like to know the reasons why I think the BP unit is better, email me offline and I'll tell you... I've hurt enough feelings for one day )
-----Original Message-----
From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@desertjeep.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:40 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; 'Stu Olson'
Cc: 'AZVJC'; 'bermboy2000'
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
Joe,
Ya think? Why? I have been investigating styles of bumpers for almost a year now and have been going back and forth between body mounted or bumper mounted. Why do you think the BP is better?
I wonder what your nemesis Stu has to say about his style of bumper.
Stu, Why do you like your bumper? (sorry to drag you into this)
Cost is not an issue because I will be building it myself (With the help of my bro-in-law). If it was the BP with the Lifetime warranty would be the choice.
Joey K
93YJ
www.desertjeep.com
-----Original Message-----
From: JW [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:33 PM
To: 'Mike Beach'; 'bermboy2000'; 'AZVJC'
Subject: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
With the Bulletproof bumper and spare tire carrier running only $466 complete with a lifetime warranty and better quality... why in the WORLD would ANYONE pay $495 for the OR setup? I thought that the OR setup was MUCH less than the Bulletproof bumper. If the OR assembly is $250 then it is a good price... if it really is $495, you should consider Bulletproof.
For anyone considering Bulletproof's setup with a lifetime guarantee... let me know; I have their current pricelist.
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Beach [mailto:mikebeach2002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:19 PM
To: bermboy2000; AZVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
bermboy2000 wrote:
What is up with this? http://www.o-rfab.com/tirecarrier.htm the price
says $495 I went wheeling this weekend with two guys that had them,
and both said it was about 250. Did they double the price or what??
Thanks,
Scott "Iron" Maiden
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Im getting mine installed tommorow by Mark@ O-R Fab, My total came out to 535.15 with tax. I really like the product and think it is well worth the money. I'll take pics, and post them tommorow
MIKE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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36767 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:08pm
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Mike,
That is a nice bumper however it does not appear from the pictures to be a strong as Bullet proof's. Bullet proof's attach to the frame rails, if I remember right on the top and bottom. Younger Bros' seem to just to rely on the cross member which is semi-reinforces sheet metal. It is also much closer to the body which helps when negotiating steep obstacles. Having said this I could justify paying a bit more for a more "beefier" bumper.
Just a couple of cents worth.
Joey K
93YJ
www.desertjeep.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Wixom [mailto:certifiedinsp@msn.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:28 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; 'bermboy2000'; 'AZVJC'
Subject: Re: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
For an alternative, check out http://www.younger-bros.com/ I bought my bumpers, tire carrier from them and they are at least as good a quality as Bulletproof and some what less expensive. The construction is top notch and they are easier to work with than bullet proof. They added some custom mounting points for me and a winch plate for much less than Bulletproof. (actually bulletproof would not do the custom work)
Mike Wixom
85 CJ-7
----- Original Message -----
From: JW
To: 'Mike Beach' ; 'bermboy2000' ; 'AZVJC'
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:32 PM
Subject: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
With the Bulletproof bumper and spare tire carrier running only $466 complete with a lifetime warranty and better quality... why in the WORLD would ANYONE pay $495 for the OR setup? I thought that the OR setup was MUCH less than the Bulletproof bumper. If the OR assembly is $250 then it is a good price... if it really is $495, you should consider Bulletproof.
For anyone considering Bulletproof's setup with a lifetime guarantee... let me know; I have their current pricelist.
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Beach [mailto:mikebeach2002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:19 PM
To: bermboy2000; AZVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
bermboy2000 wrote:
What is up with this? http://www.o-rfab.com/tirecarrier.htm the price
says $495 I went wheeling this weekend with two guys that had them,
and both said it was about 250. Did they double the price or what??
Thanks,
Scott "Iron" Maiden
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Im getting mine installed tommorow by Mark@ O-R Fab, My total came out to 535.15 with tax. I really like the product and think it is well worth the money. I'll take pics, and post them tommorow
MIKE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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36768 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:11pm
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Dang Guys!
Is this beat up Joe day or something?
<grin>
Keep it up and I'm going to get "Butt hurt".
<laugh>
Joe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David R. W. Withers [mailto:dr_ww@h...]
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:39 PM
> To: 'jeepin_in_az'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab
> Tire carrier
>
>
> I'm shocked that Joe even considered price.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jeepin_in_az [mailto:jeepin_in_az@y...]
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:30 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab
> Tire carrier
>
>
> Good ole JW is FULL of opinions! :)
>
> Mike
>
>
> > Oh, lets go out and jump on the Bulletproof is the best stuff in
> the world bandwagon:) If i like Bulletproof I would have bought
> bulletproof, but since I like Mark and his work at O-R, thats what I
> went with. How can you say that Bulletproof is much better quality?
> Have you seen one in person(O-R's)? I'd really like to know
> if this is
> just an opinion or a FACT
> >
> > Mike Beach
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
36769 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:11pm
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Funny, but Joe's got you beat with a walnut cracking vise welded onto his bumper.
Joey K
-----Original Message-----
From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@qwest.net]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 3:00 PM
To: 'DesertJeep'; joew@avanticorp.com
Cc: 'AZVJC'; 'bermboy2000'
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
Well heck, my cheap ***** bumper isn't made by OR-Fab or BP. It is one of those $150 specials. But....I'm happy with it. It got me through the "hitting everything on the trail with your bumper" phase of Jeepin'.....and now I use it for more specialized things like cracking walnuts (put a walnut on the obstacle and then drop your Jeep on top of it) and other intricate rock crawlin' kind of stuff. ;)
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@desertjeep.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:40 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; 'Stu Olson'
Cc: 'AZVJC'; 'bermboy2000'
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
Joe,
Ya think? Why? I have been investigating styles of bumpers for almost a year now and have been going back and forth between body mounted or bumper mounted. Why do you think the BP is better?
I wonder what your nemesis Stu has to say about his style of bumper.
Stu, Why do you like your bumper? (sorry to drag you into this)
Cost is not an issue because I will be building it myself (With the help of my bro-in-law). If it was the BP with the Lifetime warranty would be the choice.
Joey K
93YJ
www.desertjeep.com
-----Original Message-----
From: JW [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:33 PM
To: 'Mike Beach'; 'bermboy2000'; 'AZVJC'
Subject: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
With the Bulletproof bumper and spare tire carrier running only $466 complete with a lifetime warranty and better quality... why in the WORLD would ANYONE pay $495 for the OR setup? I thought that the OR setup was MUCH less than the Bulletproof bumper. If the OR assembly is $250 then it is a good price... if it really is $495, you should consider Bulletproof.
For anyone considering Bulletproof's setup with a lifetime guarantee... let me know; I have their current pricelist.
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Beach [mailto:mikebeach2002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:19 PM
To: bermboy2000; AZVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
bermboy2000 wrote:
What is up with this? http://www.o-rfab.com/tirecarrier.htm the price
says $495 I went wheeling this weekend with two guys that had them,
and both said it was about 250. Did they double the price or what??
Thanks,
Scott "Iron" Maiden
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Im getting mine installed tommorow by Mark@ O-R Fab, My total came out to 535.15 with tax. I really like the product and think it is well worth the money. I'll take pics, and post them tommorow
MIKE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings.
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36770 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:12pm
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Bulletproof's bumper isn't square; it is rectilinear.
<grin>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: my1stjeep [mailto:my1stjeep@e...]
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:39 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab
> Tire carrier
>
>
> Shocked Mr. Round Headlight would put something Square on his
> rig. JW
> you sure you own the right model Jeep...LOL? :o)~
>
> Chris
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "David R. W. Withers" <dr_ww@h...> wrote:
> > I'm shocked that Joe even considered price.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jeepin_in_az [mailto:jeepin_in_az@y...]
> > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:30 PM
> > To: az_vjc@y...
> > Subject: Re: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab
> > Tire carrier
> >
> >
> > Good ole JW is FULL of opinions! :)
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > > Oh, lets go out and jump on the Bulletproof is the best stuff in
> > the world bandwagon:) If i like Bulletproof I would have bought
> > bulletproof, but since I like Mark and his work at O-R, thats what I
> > went with. How can you say that Bulletproof is much better quality?
> > Have you seen one in person(O-R's)? I'd really like to
> know if this
> is
> > just an opinion or a FACT
> > >
> > > Mike Beach
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
36771 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:14pm
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
That would be a "U-Joint replacing" vise.
Never tried the walnut thing on it though... hmmm...
-----Original Message-----
From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@desertjeep.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 3:12 PM
To: 'Stu Olson'; joew@avanticorp.com
Cc: 'AZVJC'; 'bermboy2000'
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
Funny, but Joe's got you beat with a walnut cracking vise welded onto his bumper.
Joey K
-----Original Message-----
From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@qwest.net]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 3:00 PM
To: 'DesertJeep'; joew@avanticorp.com
Cc: 'AZVJC'; 'bermboy2000'
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
Well heck, my cheap ***** bumper isn't made by OR-Fab or BP. It is one of those $150 specials. But....I'm happy with it. It got me through the "hitting everything on the trail with your bumper" phase of Jeepin'.....and now I use it for more specialized things like cracking walnuts (put a walnut on the obstacle and then drop your Jeep on top of it) and other intricate rock crawlin' kind of stuff. ;)
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@desertjeep.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:40 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; 'Stu Olson'
Cc: 'AZVJC'; 'bermboy2000'
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
Joe,
Ya think? Why? I have been investigating styles of bumpers for almost a year now and have been going back and forth between body mounted or bumper mounted. Why do you think the BP is better?
I wonder what your nemesis Stu has to say about his style of bumper.
Stu, Why do you like your bumper? (sorry to drag you into this)
Cost is not an issue because I will be building it myself (With the help of my bro-in-law). If it was the BP with the Lifetime warranty would be the choice.
Joey K
93YJ
www.desertjeep.com
-----Original Message-----
From: JW [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:33 PM
To: 'Mike Beach'; 'bermboy2000'; 'AZVJC'
Subject: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
With the Bulletproof bumper and spare tire carrier running only $466 complete with a lifetime warranty and better quality... why in the WORLD would ANYONE pay $495 for the OR setup? I thought that the OR setup was MUCH less than the Bulletproof bumper. If the OR assembly is $250 then it is a good price... if it really is $495, you should consider Bulletproof.
For anyone considering Bulletproof's setup with a lifetime guarantee... let me know; I have their current pricelist.
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Beach [mailto:mikebeach2002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:19 PM
To: bermboy2000; AZVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
bermboy2000 wrote:
What is up with this? http://www.o-rfab.com/tirecarrier.htm the price
says $495 I went wheeling this weekend with two guys that had them,
and both said it was about 250. Did they double the price or what??
Thanks,
Scott "Iron" Maiden
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Im getting mine installed tommorow by Mark@ O-R Fab, My total came out to 535.15 with tax. I really like the product and think it is well worth the money. I'll take pics, and post them tommorow
MIKE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
36772 From: azcj <azcj@y...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:27pm
Subject: Re: OR Fab Tire carrier
Scott-
Sorry about the miss info the other day. As someone else mentioned,
the bumper was $250. I'm pretty sure that the tire carrier was around
$495 know that I think about it.
I'm very happy with both the guys at OR-Fab and their products and
would recommend them to anybody, and have. I have had the tire
carrier for about a year now and have had no problems with it. It
never rattles. It holds the tire up higher than some and is therefore
less likely to drag. And when it does drag, it holds up to the
punishment. The wrap around style bumper that I have in the rear has
saved my Jeep from body damage many times. Great products IMO.
-Scott E.
--- In az_vjc@y..., "bermboy2000" <bermboy@h...> wrote:
> What is up with this? http://www.o-rfab.com/tirecarrier.htm the
price
> says $495 I went wheeling this weekend with two guys that had them,
> and both said it was about 250. Did they double the price or what??
> Thanks,
> Scott "Iron" Maiden
36773 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:31pm
Subject: RE: Holley 2300 tuning advice needed
Well the 600cfm was a 4bbl I suppose that would make a difference I have never tried to use a 2bbl carburetor that big although my Holley pro-injection is a 2bbl 670cfm. It was supper easy to tune but I would not want to try and get it through emissions.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lisa Bunch [mailto:jeepcj8@home.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 3:15 PM
To: az_vjc
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Holley 2300 tuning advice needed
Ah, but are they 2 bbls or 4bbls? I am working with a 2bbl. I wonder if a 4bbl would be easier to tune. The secondaries could be set to open way late, like having a 2bbl, then a 4bbl when you need it. Apparently, with larger venturies, the airflow is slower, which makes jet changes difficult. Also, I am trying to pass 1985 emissions with this thing...
L...
-----Original Message-----
From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@unisys.com>
To: 'Lisa Bunch' <jeepcj8@home.com>; az_vjc <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:58 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Holley 2300 tuning advice needed
Why do you think a Holley 500cfm is too large? I am not my third Jeep my first two had 304s and I ran Holley 600cfms on them. They ran great.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lisa Bunch [mailto:jeepcj8@home.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 3:02 PM
To: az_vjc
Subject: [az_vjc] Holley 2300 tuning advice needed
Hi all,
I am trying to tune my Holley 2300 500cfm on my 85 CJ w/304 V-8 and 999 A/T. (I know, the carb is too big).
I am using a vacuum gauge and an air/fuel meter. (very cool, btw)
So far I have #66 main jets and a 5.0 power valve. Originally came with #73 jets and 5.0 power valve
Vacuum at idle is 17"Hg
Vacuum at cruise is 15", at cruise I am on the high side of stoich, low side of rich.
Under a load, it goes lean at 7-8"Hg and bogs down.
I am thinking of going to a 7.5 power valve. This may create a re-jet situation on the mains? (Again) Lower, maybe?
Will I ever be able to get this thing dialed in well enough to pass emissions? Should I give up and go to a 350 CFM carb?
Any advice and encouragement is appreciated.
Lisa
1985 CJ-8
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
36774 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:34pm
Subject: Re: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Wow, for once, I counldn't disagree more with Joe. I personally think my OR Fab tire carrier is far better than his loose, rattling, 800 LB Bulletproof carrier and you don't need some heavy bumper to mount it.
The OR Fab carrier is very well built. I spend much less than $495 on mine but it was one of the first ones built.
Chris
From: "JW"
Reply-To:
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:32:47 -0700
To: "'Mike Beach'" , "'bermboy2000'" , "'AZVJC'"
Subject: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
With the Bulletproof bumper and spare tire carrier running only $466 complete with a lifetime warranty and better quality... why in the WORLD would ANYONE pay $495 for the OR setup? I thought that the OR setup was MUCH less than the Bulletproof bumper. If the OR assembly is $250 then it is a good price... if it really is $495, you should consider Bulletproof.
For anyone considering Bulletproof's setup with a lifetime guarantee... let me know; I have their current pricelist.
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Beach [mailto:mikebeach2002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:19 PM
To: bermboy2000; AZVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
bermboy2000 wrote:
What is up with this? http://www.o-rfab.com/tirecarrier.htm the price
says $495 I went wheeling this weekend with two guys that had them,
and both said it was about 250. Did they double the price or what??
Thanks,
Scott "Iron" Maiden
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Im getting mine installed tommorow by Mark@ O-R Fab, My total came out to 535.15 with tax. I really like the product and think it is well worth the money. I'll take pics, and post them tommorow
MIKE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings .
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service .
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36775 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:36pm
Subject: Re: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Joe,
What are the other possible interpretations of "why in the WORLD
would ANYONE pay $495 for the OR setup?" To me, your statement
implied that only a person with inferior intelligence - whether
you call them idiot, moron, etc. - would buy the ORF product.
I just happened to choose the word "idiot" to explain my point.
And, yes, emphasizing the words "WORLD" and "ANYONE" certainly
made your statement even more demeaning, in my opinion*.
As for prefacing all of your statements with a disclaimer,
that's not necessary. It's not hard to insert "in my opinion"
in statements of opinion. (*see above)
Please take this as constructive criticism as that's how I
intend it.
-Roger
JW wrote:
>
> Roger,
>
> Now just WHERE did I call imply that he is an idiot?
>
> Here's what I said:
>
> "With the Bulletproof bumper and spare tire carrier running only $466
> complete with a lifetime warranty and better quality... why in the WORLD
> would ANYONE pay $495 for the OR setup? I thought that the OR setup was
> MUCH less than the Bulletproof bumper. If the OR assembly is $250 then it
> is a good price... if it really is $495, you should consider Bulletproof."
>
> Asking why in the WORLD ANYONE would pay that much for an O-R setup is
> certainly not an implication of idiotic behavior... but really an emphasized
> question which I had hoped someone would answer. I don't believe that it
> was uncalled for at all... Perhaps I shouldn't have emphasized the words
> WORLD and ANYONE; I'll be more careful next time to ensure I don't hurt
> anyone's feelings.
>
> As far as my statement of opinion goes... no... I didn't expect you to take
> my word for it. Even if I proved that the OR unit was structurally less
> sound (I'm not saying it is) or brought up the fact that they don't have a
> lifetime guarantee or... it wouldn't matter. My point was simply, why pay
> more for less (in my opinion)?
>
> I'll try to preface all of my statements from here on out with the following
> sig:
>
> "The opinions expressed in this email are not statements of fact but rather,
> the opinions of the author and are not intended to be taken as statements of
> fact unless the author uses the word "Fact" in his statements"
>
> Ciao,
>
> Joe
36751 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:30pm
Subject: RE: What's that dohicky?
Nick....first question.....are both of the heater hoses that penetrate your firewall hot?
2nd question.....Does the duct work in your YJ use vacuum actuators or are they the manual cable type? Assuming the answer to question #1 is yes, then it sounds as though the proper flapper in the duct is not moving into the correct position to allow air flow across your heater core.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick [mailto:nnote@azboss.net]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:19 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] What's that dohicky?
93 YJ, just above the heater box, that the blower motor is behind, is a plug in. On the inside of the plug in is two coils and a temp sensing diode? Mine was unplugged and so I fiqured that's why I was getting no heat. Well, no luck. Plugged it in and still blowing cold air. I did get my low setting on my blower fan back though!?? I replaced the thermostat, radiator (flushed also & heatercore) and my hoses about eight months ago......
Nick
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
36752 From: Nick <nnote@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:30pm
Subject: Re: What's that dohicky?
All is good that I can tell. When I flushed the system I did the heater
core independently and had good flow through it. Also the hot/cold slider
is working. I even reach over and do it by hand and I get no change.
Nick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Damon Gentile" <dgentile@s...>
To: "Nick" <nnote@a...>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] What's that dohicky?
> I *think* what you are referring to is the ballast resistor to
> slow the heater fand down for low & medium speed.
>
> No heat ? Are you sure that your hot/cold slider is connected
> to the valve and is actually opening ? Any flow through the
> heater hoses ??
>
> -d
>
> > Nick wrote:
> >
> > 93 YJ, just above the heater box, that the blower motor is behind, is
> > a plug in. On the inside of the plug in is two coils and a temp
> > sensing diode? Mine was unplugged and so I fiqured that's why I was
> > getting no heat. Well, no luck. Plugged it in and still blowing cold
> > air. I did get my low setting on my blower fan back though!?? I
> > replaced the thermostat, radiator (flushed also & heatercore) and my
> > hoses about eight months ago......
> > Nick
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
36753 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:30pm
Subject: Re: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Good ole JW is FULL of opinions! :)
Mike
> Oh, lets go out and jump on the Bulletproof is the best stuff in
the world bandwagon:) If i like Bulletproof I would have bought
bulletproof, but since I like Mark and his work at O-R, thats what I
went with. How can you say that Bulletproof is much better quality?
Have you seen one in person(O-R's)? I'd really like to know if this
is just an opinion or a FACT
>
> Mike Beach
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings.
36754 From: Nick <nnote@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:31pm
Subject: Re: What's that dohicky?
I'll check to see if the hoses are hot...That's a good one. I'm sure the duct work is fine but that is my next thing to dive into.
Nick
----- Original Message -----
From: Stu Olson
To: 'Nick' ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:30 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] What's that dohicky?
Nick....first question.....are both of the heater hoses that penetrate your firewall hot?
2nd question.....Does the duct work in your YJ use vacuum actuators or are they the manual cable type? Assuming the answer to question #1 is yes, then it sounds as though the proper flapper in the duct is not moving into the correct position to allow air flow across your heater core.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick [mailto:nnote@azboss.net]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:19 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] What's that dohicky?
93 YJ, just above the heater box, that the blower motor is behind, is a plug in. On the inside of the plug in is two coils and a temp sensing diode? Mine was unplugged and so I fiqured that's why I was getting no heat. Well, no luck. Plugged it in and still blowing cold air. I did get my low setting on my blower fan back though!?? I replaced the thermostat, radiator (flushed also & heatercore) and my hoses about eight months ago......
Nick
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
36755 From: David R. W. Withers <dr_ww@h...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:39pm
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
I'm shocked that Joe even considered price.
-----Original Message-----
From: jeepin_in_az [mailto:jeepin_in_az@y...]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:30 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab
Tire carrier
Good ole JW is FULL of opinions! :)
Mike
> Oh, lets go out and jump on the Bulletproof is the best stuff in
the world bandwagon:) If i like Bulletproof I would have bought
bulletproof, but since I like Mark and his work at O-R, thats what I
went with. How can you say that Bulletproof is much better quality?
Have you seen one in person(O-R's)? I'd really like to know if this is
just an opinion or a FACT
>
> Mike Beach
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
36756 From: my1stjeep <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:39pm
Subject: Re: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Shocked Mr. Round Headlight would put something Square on his rig. JW
you sure you own the right model Jeep...LOL? :o)~
Chris
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- In az_vjc@y..., "David R. W. Withers" <dr_ww@h...> wrote:
> I'm shocked that Joe even considered price.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jeepin_in_az [mailto:jeepin_in_az@y...]
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:30 PM
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Subject: Re: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab
> Tire carrier
>
>
> Good ole JW is FULL of opinions! :)
>
> Mike
>
>
> > Oh, lets go out and jump on the Bulletproof is the best stuff in
> the world bandwagon:) If i like Bulletproof I would have bought
> bulletproof, but since I like Mark and his work at O-R, thats what I
> went with. How can you say that Bulletproof is much better quality?
> Have you seen one in person(O-R's)? I'd really like to know if this
is
> just an opinion or a FACT
> >
> > Mike Beach
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
36757 From: Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:34pm
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Not sure I can agree about the OR Fab quality issue. I have seen how they
make those bumpers Joe, and I would be amazed if they are built stronger or
better by anyone else in the same price range. Mark built a custom versin
with the same materials for my CJ and it has been slammed hard as you can
imagine. Scuffed paint and thats it. The welds hold my 38.5 SX's and have
had the whole weight of the Jeep sitting on it.
Are you getting Scotts disease? Must have something to do with getting
married...;-)
Ross
-----Original Message-----
From: jeepin_in_az [mailto:jeepin_in_az@y...]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:30 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab
Tire carrier
Good ole JW is FULL of opinions! :)
Mike
> Oh, lets go out and jump on the Bulletproof is the best stuff in
the world bandwagon:) If i like Bulletproof I would have bought
bulletproof, but since I like Mark and his work at O-R, thats what I
went with. How can you say that Bulletproof is much better quality?
Have you seen one in person(O-R's)? I'd really like to know if this
is just an opinion or a FACT
>
> Mike Beach
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
36758 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:40pm
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Joe,
Ya think? Why? I have been investigating styles of bumpers for almost a year now and have been going back and forth between body mounted or bumper mounted. Why do you think the BP is better?
I wonder what your nemesis Stu has to say about his style of bumper.
Stu, Why do you like your bumper? (sorry to drag you into this)
Cost is not an issue because I will be building it myself (With the help of my bro-in-law). If it was the BP with the Lifetime warranty would be the choice.
Joey K
93YJ
www.desertjeep.com
-----Original Message-----
From: JW [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:33 PM
To: 'Mike Beach'; 'bermboy2000'; 'AZVJC'
Subject: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
With the Bulletproof bumper and spare tire carrier running only $466 complete with a lifetime warranty and better quality... why in the WORLD would ANYONE pay $495 for the OR setup? I thought that the OR setup was MUCH less than the Bulletproof bumper. If the OR assembly is $250 then it is a good price... if it really is $495, you should consider Bulletproof.
For anyone considering Bulletproof's setup with a lifetime guarantee... let me know; I have their current pricelist.
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Beach [mailto:mikebeach2002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:19 PM
To: bermboy2000; AZVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
bermboy2000 wrote:
What is up with this? http://www.o-rfab.com/tirecarrier.htm the price
says $495 I went wheeling this weekend with two guys that had them,
and both said it was about 250. Did they double the price or what??
Thanks,
Scott "Iron" Maiden
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Im getting mine installed tommorow by Mark@ O-R Fab, My total came out to 535.15 with tax. I really like the product and think it is well worth the money. I'll take pics, and post them tommorow
MIKE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
36759 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:45pm
Subject: RE: What's that dohicky?
Nick....if I remember correctly, there is a valve assembly, in my heater hose, that controls the flow of hot water through the core. Near to where your hoses penetrate the firewall, look for an in-line valve. It should have some kind of cable actuator on it. (my XJ was like this....and I think my TJ is too). If that valve is not opening, that would explain why you have no heat.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick [mailto:nnote@azboss.net]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:32 PM
To: Stu Olson; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] What's that dohicky?
I'll check to see if the hoses are hot...That's a good one. I'm sure the duct work is fine but that is my next thing to dive into.
Nick
----- Original Message -----
From: Stu Olson
To: 'Nick' ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:30 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] What's that dohicky?
Nick....first question.....are both of the heater hoses that penetrate your firewall hot?
2nd question.....Does the duct work in your YJ use vacuum actuators or are they the manual cable type? Assuming the answer to question #1 is yes, then it sounds as though the proper flapper in the duct is not moving into the correct position to allow air flow across your heater core.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick [mailto:nnote@azboss.net]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:19 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] What's that dohicky?
93 YJ, just above the heater box, that the blower motor is behind, is a plug in. On the inside of the plug in is two coils and a temp sensing diode? Mine was unplugged and so I fiqured that's why I was getting no heat. Well, no luck. Plugged it in and still blowing cold air. I did get my low setting on my blower fan back though!?? I replaced the thermostat, radiator (flushed also & heatercore) and my hoses about eight months ago......
Nick
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
36760 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:46pm
Subject: RE: What's that dohicky?
Nick,
I had another vehicle that had a problem with the heat and AC. The cores were clogged. Not the inside where the water runs but the outside where the air travels thru it. That would be my guess.
Joey K
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick [mailto:nnote@azboss.net]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:32 PM
To: Stu Olson; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] What's that dohicky?
I'll check to see if the hoses are hot...That's a good one. I'm sure the duct work is fine but that is my next thing to dive into.
Nick
----- Original Message -----
From: Stu Olson
To: 'Nick' ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:30 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] What's that dohicky?
Nick....first question.....are both of the heater hoses that penetrate your firewall hot?
2nd question.....Does the duct work in your YJ use vacuum actuators or are they the manual cable type? Assuming the answer to question #1 is yes, then it sounds as though the proper flapper in the duct is not moving into the correct position to allow air flow across your heater core.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick [mailto:nnote@azboss.net]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:19 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] What's that dohicky?
93 YJ, just above the heater box, that the blower motor is behind, is a plug in. On the inside of the plug in is two coils and a temp sensing diode? Mine was unplugged and so I fiqured that's why I was getting no heat. Well, no luck. Plugged it in and still blowing cold air. I did get my low setting on my blower fan back though!?? I replaced the thermostat, radiator (flushed also & heatercore) and my hoses about eight months ago......
Nick
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
36761 From: Lisa Bunch <jeepcj8@h...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:02pm
Subject: Holley 2300 tuning advice needed
Hi all,
I am trying to tune my Holley 2300 500cfm on my 85 CJ w/304 V-8 and 999 A/T. (I know, the carb is too big).
I am using a vacuum gauge and an air/fuel meter. (very cool, btw)
So far I have #66 main jets and a 5.0 power valve. Originally came with #73 jets and 5.0 power valve
Vacuum at idle is 17"Hg
Vacuum at cruise is 15", at cruise I am on the high side of stoich, low side of rich.
Under a load, it goes lean at 7-8"Hg and bogs down.
I am thinking of going to a 7.5 power valve. This may create a re-jet situation on the mains? (Again) Lower, maybe?
Will I ever be able to get this thing dialed in well enough to pass emissions? Should I give up and go to a 350 CFM carb?
Any advice and encouragement is appreciated.
Lisa
1985 CJ-8
36762 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:57pm
Subject: RE: Holley 2300 tuning advice needed
Why do you think a Holley 500cfm is too large? I am not my third Jeep my first two had 304s and I ran Holley 600cfms on them. They ran great.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lisa Bunch [mailto:jeepcj8@home.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 3:02 PM
To: az_vjc
Subject: [az_vjc] Holley 2300 tuning advice needed
Hi all,
I am trying to tune my Holley 2300 500cfm on my 85 CJ w/304 V-8 and 999 A/T. (I know, the carb is too big).
I am using a vacuum gauge and an air/fuel meter. (very cool, btw)
So far I have #66 main jets and a 5.0 power valve. Originally came with #73 jets and 5.0 power valve
Vacuum at idle is 17"Hg
Vacuum at cruise is 15", at cruise I am on the high side of stoich, low side of rich.
Under a load, it goes lean at 7-8"Hg and bogs down.
I am thinking of going to a 7.5 power valve. This may create a re-jet situation on the mains? (Again) Lower, maybe?
Will I ever be able to get this thing dialed in well enough to pass emissions? Should I give up and go to a 350 CFM carb?
Any advice and encouragement is appreciated.
Lisa
1985 CJ-8
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
36763 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:00pm
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Well heck, my cheap ***** bumper isn't made by OR-Fab or BP. It is one of those $150 specials. But....I'm happy with it. It got me through the "hitting everything on the trail with your bumper" phase of Jeepin'.....and now I use it for more specialized things like cracking walnuts (put a walnut on the obstacle and then drop your Jeep on top of it) and other intricate rock crawlin' kind of stuff. ;)
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@desertjeep.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:40 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; 'Stu Olson'
Cc: 'AZVJC'; 'bermboy2000'
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
Joe,
Ya think? Why? I have been investigating styles of bumpers for almost a year now and have been going back and forth between body mounted or bumper mounted. Why do you think the BP is better?
I wonder what your nemesis Stu has to say about his style of bumper.
Stu, Why do you like your bumper? (sorry to drag you into this)
Cost is not an issue because I will be building it myself (With the help of my bro-in-law). If it was the BP with the Lifetime warranty would be the choice.
Joey K
93YJ
www.desertjeep.com
-----Original Message-----
From: JW [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:33 PM
To: 'Mike Beach'; 'bermboy2000'; 'AZVJC'
Subject: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
With the Bulletproof bumper and spare tire carrier running only $466 complete with a lifetime warranty and better quality... why in the WORLD would ANYONE pay $495 for the OR setup? I thought that the OR setup was MUCH less than the Bulletproof bumper. If the OR assembly is $250 then it is a good price... if it really is $495, you should consider Bulletproof.
For anyone considering Bulletproof's setup with a lifetime guarantee... let me know; I have their current pricelist.
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Beach [mailto:mikebeach2002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:19 PM
To: bermboy2000; AZVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
bermboy2000 wrote:
What is up with this? http://www.o-rfab.com/tirecarrier.htm the price
says $495 I went wheeling this weekend with two guys that had them,
and both said it was about 250. Did they double the price or what??
Thanks,
Scott "Iron" Maiden
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Im getting mine installed tommorow by Mark@ O-R Fab, My total came out to 535.15 with tax. I really like the product and think it is well worth the money. I'll take pics, and post them tommorow
MIKE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
36764 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:02pm
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Roger,
Now just WHERE did I call imply that he is an idiot?
Here's what I said:
"With the Bulletproof bumper and spare tire carrier running only $466
complete with a lifetime warranty and better quality... why in the WORLD
would ANYONE pay $495 for the OR setup? I thought that the OR setup was
MUCH less than the Bulletproof bumper. If the OR assembly is $250 then it
is a good price... if it really is $495, you should consider Bulletproof."
Asking why in the WORLD ANYONE would pay that much for an O-R setup is
certainly not an implication of idiotic behavior... but really an emphasized
question which I had hoped someone would answer. I don't believe that it
was uncalled for at all... Perhaps I shouldn't have emphasized the words
WORLD and ANYONE; I'll be more careful next time to ensure I don't hurt
anyone's feelings.
As far as my statement of opinion goes... no... I didn't expect you to take
my word for it. Even if I proved that the OR unit was structurally less
sound (I'm not saying it is) or brought up the fact that they don't have a
lifetime guarantee or... it wouldn't matter. My point was simply, why pay
more for less (in my opinion)?
I'll try to preface all of my statements from here on out with the following
sig:
"The opinions expressed in this email are not statements of fact but rather,
the opinions of the author and are not intended to be taken as statements of
fact unless the author uses the word "Fact" in his statements"
Ciao,
Joe
36765 From: Lisa Bunch <jeepcj8@h...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:14pm
Subject: Re: Holley 2300 tuning advice needed
Ah, but are they 2 bbls or 4bbls? I am working with a 2bbl. I wonder if a 4bbl would be easier to tune. The secondaries could be set to open way late, like having a 2bbl, then a 4bbl when you need it. Apparently, with larger venturies, the airflow is slower, which makes jet changes difficult. Also, I am trying to pass 1985 emissions with this thing...
L...
-----Original Message-----
From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@unisys.com>
To: 'Lisa Bunch' <jeepcj8@home.com>; az_vjc <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:58 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Holley 2300 tuning advice needed
Why do you think a Holley 500cfm is too large? I am not my third Jeep my first two had 304s and I ran Holley 600cfms on them. They ran great.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lisa Bunch [mailto:jeepcj8@home.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 3:02 PM
To: az_vjc
Subject: [az_vjc] Holley 2300 tuning advice needed
Hi all,
I am trying to tune my Holley 2300 500cfm on my 85 CJ w/304 V-8 and 999 A/T. (I know, the carb is too big).
I am using a vacuum gauge and an air/fuel meter. (very cool, btw)
So far I have #66 main jets and a 5.0 power valve. Originally came with #73 jets and 5.0 power valve
Vacuum at idle is 17"Hg
Vacuum at cruise is 15", at cruise I am on the high side of stoich, low side of rich.
Under a load, it goes lean at 7-8"Hg and bogs down.
I am thinking of going to a 7.5 power valve. This may create a re-jet situation on the mains? (Again) Lower, maybe?
Will I ever be able to get this thing dialed in well enough to pass emissions? Should I give up and go to a 350 CFM carb?
Any advice and encouragement is appreciated.
Lisa
1985 CJ-8
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
36766 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:07pm
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Naw Joey... the OR setup couldn't possibly be better.
I'm on page number three of the analysis for Stu which looks at reflected energy vs cable length for CB frequencies... I don't need to get into a NASTRAN analysis of OR's spare tire carrier bumper.
Joe
(If you'd really like to know the reasons why I think the BP unit is better, email me offline and I'll tell you... I've hurt enough feelings for one day )
-----Original Message-----
From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@desertjeep.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:40 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; 'Stu Olson'
Cc: 'AZVJC'; 'bermboy2000'
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
Joe,
Ya think? Why? I have been investigating styles of bumpers for almost a year now and have been going back and forth between body mounted or bumper mounted. Why do you think the BP is better?
I wonder what your nemesis Stu has to say about his style of bumper.
Stu, Why do you like your bumper? (sorry to drag you into this)
Cost is not an issue because I will be building it myself (With the help of my bro-in-law). If it was the BP with the Lifetime warranty would be the choice.
Joey K
93YJ
www.desertjeep.com
-----Original Message-----
From: JW [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:33 PM
To: 'Mike Beach'; 'bermboy2000'; 'AZVJC'
Subject: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
With the Bulletproof bumper and spare tire carrier running only $466 complete with a lifetime warranty and better quality... why in the WORLD would ANYONE pay $495 for the OR setup? I thought that the OR setup was MUCH less than the Bulletproof bumper. If the OR assembly is $250 then it is a good price... if it really is $495, you should consider Bulletproof.
For anyone considering Bulletproof's setup with a lifetime guarantee... let me know; I have their current pricelist.
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Beach [mailto:mikebeach2002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:19 PM
To: bermboy2000; AZVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
bermboy2000 wrote:
What is up with this? http://www.o-rfab.com/tirecarrier.htm the price
says $495 I went wheeling this weekend with two guys that had them,
and both said it was about 250. Did they double the price or what??
Thanks,
Scott "Iron" Maiden
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Im getting mine installed tommorow by Mark@ O-R Fab, My total came out to 535.15 with tax. I really like the product and think it is well worth the money. I'll take pics, and post them tommorow
MIKE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
36767 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:08pm
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Mike,
That is a nice bumper however it does not appear from the pictures to be a strong as Bullet proof's. Bullet proof's attach to the frame rails, if I remember right on the top and bottom. Younger Bros' seem to just to rely on the cross member which is semi-reinforces sheet metal. It is also much closer to the body which helps when negotiating steep obstacles. Having said this I could justify paying a bit more for a more "beefier" bumper.
Just a couple of cents worth.
Joey K
93YJ
www.desertjeep.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Wixom [mailto:certifiedinsp@msn.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:28 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; 'bermboy2000'; 'AZVJC'
Subject: Re: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
For an alternative, check out http://www.younger-bros.com/ I bought my bumpers, tire carrier from them and they are at least as good a quality as Bulletproof and some what less expensive. The construction is top notch and they are easier to work with than bullet proof. They added some custom mounting points for me and a winch plate for much less than Bulletproof. (actually bulletproof would not do the custom work)
Mike Wixom
85 CJ-7
----- Original Message -----
From: JW
To: 'Mike Beach' ; 'bermboy2000' ; 'AZVJC'
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:32 PM
Subject: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
With the Bulletproof bumper and spare tire carrier running only $466 complete with a lifetime warranty and better quality... why in the WORLD would ANYONE pay $495 for the OR setup? I thought that the OR setup was MUCH less than the Bulletproof bumper. If the OR assembly is $250 then it is a good price... if it really is $495, you should consider Bulletproof.
For anyone considering Bulletproof's setup with a lifetime guarantee... let me know; I have their current pricelist.
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Beach [mailto:mikebeach2002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:19 PM
To: bermboy2000; AZVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
bermboy2000 wrote:
What is up with this? http://www.o-rfab.com/tirecarrier.htm the price
says $495 I went wheeling this weekend with two guys that had them,
and both said it was about 250. Did they double the price or what??
Thanks,
Scott "Iron" Maiden
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Im getting mine installed tommorow by Mark@ O-R Fab, My total came out to 535.15 with tax. I really like the product and think it is well worth the money. I'll take pics, and post them tommorow
MIKE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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36768 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:11pm
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Dang Guys!
Is this beat up Joe day or something?
<grin>
Keep it up and I'm going to get "Butt hurt".
<laugh>
Joe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David R. W. Withers [mailto:dr_ww@h...]
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:39 PM
> To: 'jeepin_in_az'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab
> Tire carrier
>
>
> I'm shocked that Joe even considered price.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jeepin_in_az [mailto:jeepin_in_az@y...]
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:30 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab
> Tire carrier
>
>
> Good ole JW is FULL of opinions! :)
>
> Mike
>
>
> > Oh, lets go out and jump on the Bulletproof is the best stuff in
> the world bandwagon:) If i like Bulletproof I would have bought
> bulletproof, but since I like Mark and his work at O-R, thats what I
> went with. How can you say that Bulletproof is much better quality?
> Have you seen one in person(O-R's)? I'd really like to know
> if this is
> just an opinion or a FACT
> >
> > Mike Beach
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
36769 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:11pm
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Funny, but Joe's got you beat with a walnut cracking vise welded onto his bumper.
Joey K
-----Original Message-----
From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@qwest.net]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 3:00 PM
To: 'DesertJeep'; joew@avanticorp.com
Cc: 'AZVJC'; 'bermboy2000'
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
Well heck, my cheap ***** bumper isn't made by OR-Fab or BP. It is one of those $150 specials. But....I'm happy with it. It got me through the "hitting everything on the trail with your bumper" phase of Jeepin'.....and now I use it for more specialized things like cracking walnuts (put a walnut on the obstacle and then drop your Jeep on top of it) and other intricate rock crawlin' kind of stuff. ;)
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@desertjeep.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:40 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; 'Stu Olson'
Cc: 'AZVJC'; 'bermboy2000'
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
Joe,
Ya think? Why? I have been investigating styles of bumpers for almost a year now and have been going back and forth between body mounted or bumper mounted. Why do you think the BP is better?
I wonder what your nemesis Stu has to say about his style of bumper.
Stu, Why do you like your bumper? (sorry to drag you into this)
Cost is not an issue because I will be building it myself (With the help of my bro-in-law). If it was the BP with the Lifetime warranty would be the choice.
Joey K
93YJ
www.desertjeep.com
-----Original Message-----
From: JW [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:33 PM
To: 'Mike Beach'; 'bermboy2000'; 'AZVJC'
Subject: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
With the Bulletproof bumper and spare tire carrier running only $466 complete with a lifetime warranty and better quality... why in the WORLD would ANYONE pay $495 for the OR setup? I thought that the OR setup was MUCH less than the Bulletproof bumper. If the OR assembly is $250 then it is a good price... if it really is $495, you should consider Bulletproof.
For anyone considering Bulletproof's setup with a lifetime guarantee... let me know; I have their current pricelist.
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Beach [mailto:mikebeach2002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:19 PM
To: bermboy2000; AZVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
bermboy2000 wrote:
What is up with this? http://www.o-rfab.com/tirecarrier.htm the price
says $495 I went wheeling this weekend with two guys that had them,
and both said it was about 250. Did they double the price or what??
Thanks,
Scott "Iron" Maiden
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Im getting mine installed tommorow by Mark@ O-R Fab, My total came out to 535.15 with tax. I really like the product and think it is well worth the money. I'll take pics, and post them tommorow
MIKE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings.
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36770 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:12pm
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Bulletproof's bumper isn't square; it is rectilinear.
<grin>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: my1stjeep [mailto:my1stjeep@e...]
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:39 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab
> Tire carrier
>
>
> Shocked Mr. Round Headlight would put something Square on his
> rig. JW
> you sure you own the right model Jeep...LOL? :o)~
>
> Chris
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "David R. W. Withers" <dr_ww@h...> wrote:
> > I'm shocked that Joe even considered price.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jeepin_in_az [mailto:jeepin_in_az@y...]
> > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:30 PM
> > To: az_vjc@y...
> > Subject: Re: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab
> > Tire carrier
> >
> >
> > Good ole JW is FULL of opinions! :)
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > > Oh, lets go out and jump on the Bulletproof is the best stuff in
> > the world bandwagon:) If i like Bulletproof I would have bought
> > bulletproof, but since I like Mark and his work at O-R, thats what I
> > went with. How can you say that Bulletproof is much better quality?
> > Have you seen one in person(O-R's)? I'd really like to
> know if this
> is
> > just an opinion or a FACT
> > >
> > > Mike Beach
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
36771 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:14pm
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
That would be a "U-Joint replacing" vise.
Never tried the walnut thing on it though... hmmm...
-----Original Message-----
From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@desertjeep.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 3:12 PM
To: 'Stu Olson'; joew@avanticorp.com
Cc: 'AZVJC'; 'bermboy2000'
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
Funny, but Joe's got you beat with a walnut cracking vise welded onto his bumper.
Joey K
-----Original Message-----
From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@qwest.net]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 3:00 PM
To: 'DesertJeep'; joew@avanticorp.com
Cc: 'AZVJC'; 'bermboy2000'
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
Well heck, my cheap ***** bumper isn't made by OR-Fab or BP. It is one of those $150 specials. But....I'm happy with it. It got me through the "hitting everything on the trail with your bumper" phase of Jeepin'.....and now I use it for more specialized things like cracking walnuts (put a walnut on the obstacle and then drop your Jeep on top of it) and other intricate rock crawlin' kind of stuff. ;)
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@desertjeep.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:40 PM
To: joew@avanticorp.com; 'Stu Olson'
Cc: 'AZVJC'; 'bermboy2000'
Subject: RE: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
Joe,
Ya think? Why? I have been investigating styles of bumpers for almost a year now and have been going back and forth between body mounted or bumper mounted. Why do you think the BP is better?
I wonder what your nemesis Stu has to say about his style of bumper.
Stu, Why do you like your bumper? (sorry to drag you into this)
Cost is not an issue because I will be building it myself (With the help of my bro-in-law). If it was the BP with the Lifetime warranty would be the choice.
Joey K
93YJ
www.desertjeep.com
-----Original Message-----
From: JW [mailto:joew@avanticorp.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:33 PM
To: 'Mike Beach'; 'bermboy2000'; 'AZVJC'
Subject: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
With the Bulletproof bumper and spare tire carrier running only $466 complete with a lifetime warranty and better quality... why in the WORLD would ANYONE pay $495 for the OR setup? I thought that the OR setup was MUCH less than the Bulletproof bumper. If the OR assembly is $250 then it is a good price... if it really is $495, you should consider Bulletproof.
For anyone considering Bulletproof's setup with a lifetime guarantee... let me know; I have their current pricelist.
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Beach [mailto:mikebeach2002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:19 PM
To: bermboy2000; AZVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
bermboy2000 wrote:
What is up with this? http://www.o-rfab.com/tirecarrier.htm the price
says $495 I went wheeling this weekend with two guys that had them,
and both said it was about 250. Did they double the price or what??
Thanks,
Scott "Iron" Maiden
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Im getting mine installed tommorow by Mark@ O-R Fab, My total came out to 535.15 with tax. I really like the product and think it is well worth the money. I'll take pics, and post them tommorow
MIKE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
36772 From: azcj <azcj@y...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:27pm
Subject: Re: OR Fab Tire carrier
Scott-
Sorry about the miss info the other day. As someone else mentioned,
the bumper was $250. I'm pretty sure that the tire carrier was around
$495 know that I think about it.
I'm very happy with both the guys at OR-Fab and their products and
would recommend them to anybody, and have. I have had the tire
carrier for about a year now and have had no problems with it. It
never rattles. It holds the tire up higher than some and is therefore
less likely to drag. And when it does drag, it holds up to the
punishment. The wrap around style bumper that I have in the rear has
saved my Jeep from body damage many times. Great products IMO.
-Scott E.
--- In az_vjc@y..., "bermboy2000" <bermboy@h...> wrote:
> What is up with this? http://www.o-rfab.com/tirecarrier.htm the
price
> says $495 I went wheeling this weekend with two guys that had them,
> and both said it was about 250. Did they double the price or what??
> Thanks,
> Scott "Iron" Maiden
36773 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:31pm
Subject: RE: Holley 2300 tuning advice needed
Well the 600cfm was a 4bbl I suppose that would make a difference I have never tried to use a 2bbl carburetor that big although my Holley pro-injection is a 2bbl 670cfm. It was supper easy to tune but I would not want to try and get it through emissions.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lisa Bunch [mailto:jeepcj8@home.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 3:15 PM
To: az_vjc
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Holley 2300 tuning advice needed
Ah, but are they 2 bbls or 4bbls? I am working with a 2bbl. I wonder if a 4bbl would be easier to tune. The secondaries could be set to open way late, like having a 2bbl, then a 4bbl when you need it. Apparently, with larger venturies, the airflow is slower, which makes jet changes difficult. Also, I am trying to pass 1985 emissions with this thing...
L...
-----Original Message-----
From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@unisys.com>
To: 'Lisa Bunch' <jeepcj8@home.com>; az_vjc <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:58 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Holley 2300 tuning advice needed
Why do you think a Holley 500cfm is too large? I am not my third Jeep my first two had 304s and I ran Holley 600cfms on them. They ran great.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lisa Bunch [mailto:jeepcj8@home.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 3:02 PM
To: az_vjc
Subject: [az_vjc] Holley 2300 tuning advice needed
Hi all,
I am trying to tune my Holley 2300 500cfm on my 85 CJ w/304 V-8 and 999 A/T. (I know, the carb is too big).
I am using a vacuum gauge and an air/fuel meter. (very cool, btw)
So far I have #66 main jets and a 5.0 power valve. Originally came with #73 jets and 5.0 power valve
Vacuum at idle is 17"Hg
Vacuum at cruise is 15", at cruise I am on the high side of stoich, low side of rich.
Under a load, it goes lean at 7-8"Hg and bogs down.
I am thinking of going to a 7.5 power valve. This may create a re-jet situation on the mains? (Again) Lower, maybe?
Will I ever be able to get this thing dialed in well enough to pass emissions? Should I give up and go to a 350 CFM carb?
Any advice and encouragement is appreciated.
Lisa
1985 CJ-8
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
36774 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:34pm
Subject: Re: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Wow, for once, I counldn't disagree more with Joe. I personally think my OR Fab tire carrier is far better than his loose, rattling, 800 LB Bulletproof carrier and you don't need some heavy bumper to mount it.
The OR Fab carrier is very well built. I spend much less than $495 on mine but it was one of the first ones built.
Chris
From: "JW"
Reply-To:
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:32:47 -0700
To: "'Mike Beach'" , "'bermboy2000'" , "'AZVJC'"
Subject: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
With the Bulletproof bumper and spare tire carrier running only $466 complete with a lifetime warranty and better quality... why in the WORLD would ANYONE pay $495 for the OR setup? I thought that the OR setup was MUCH less than the Bulletproof bumper. If the OR assembly is $250 then it is a good price... if it really is $495, you should consider Bulletproof.
For anyone considering Bulletproof's setup with a lifetime guarantee... let me know; I have their current pricelist.
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Beach [mailto:mikebeach2002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:19 PM
To: bermboy2000; AZVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] OR Fab Tire carrier
bermboy2000 wrote:
What is up with this? http://www.o-rfab.com/tirecarrier.htm the price
says $495 I went wheeling this weekend with two guys that had them,
and both said it was about 250. Did they double the price or what??
Thanks,
Scott "Iron" Maiden
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Im getting mine installed tommorow by Mark@ O-R Fab, My total came out to 535.15 with tax. I really like the product and think it is well worth the money. I'll take pics, and post them tommorow
MIKE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings .
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service .
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36775 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:36pm
Subject: Re: Bulletproof is LESS Expensive! Was: RE: OR Fab Tire carrier
Joe,
What are the other possible interpretations of "why in the WORLD
would ANYONE pay $495 for the OR setup?" To me, your statement
implied that only a person with inferior intelligence - whether
you call them idiot, moron, etc. - would buy the ORF product.
I just happened to choose the word "idiot" to explain my point.
And, yes, emphasizing the words "WORLD" and "ANYONE" certainly
made your statement even more demeaning, in my opinion*.
As for prefacing all of your statements with a disclaimer,
that's not necessary. It's not hard to insert "in my opinion"
in statements of opinion. (*see above)
Please take this as constructive criticism as that's how I
intend it.
-Roger
JW wrote:
>
> Roger,
>
> Now just WHERE did I call imply that he is an idiot?
>
> Here's what I said:
>
> "With the Bulletproof bumper and spare tire carrier running only $466
> complete with a lifetime warranty and better quality... why in the WORLD
> would ANYONE pay $495 for the OR setup? I thought that the OR setup was
> MUCH less than the Bulletproof bumper. If the OR assembly is $250 then it
> is a good price... if it really is $495, you should consider Bulletproof."
>
> Asking why in the WORLD ANYONE would pay that much for an O-R setup is
> certainly not an implication of idiotic behavior... but really an emphasized
> question which I had hoped someone would answer. I don't believe that it
> was uncalled for at all... Perhaps I shouldn't have emphasized the words
> WORLD and ANYONE; I'll be more careful next time to ensure I don't hurt
> anyone's feelings.
>
> As far as my statement of opinion goes... no... I didn't expect you to take
> my word for it. Even if I proved that the OR unit was structurally less
> sound (I'm not saying it is) or brought up the fact that they don't have a
> lifetime guarantee or... it wouldn't matter. My point was simply, why pay
> more for less (in my opinion)?
>
> I'll try to preface all of my statements from here on out with the following
> sig:
>
> "The opinions expressed in this email are not statements of fact but rather,
> the opinions of the author and are not intended to be taken as statements of
> fact unless the author uses the word "Fact" in his statements"
>
> Ciao,
>
> Joe