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Sandee McCullen
10-19-2006, 11:19 AM
NOTICE OF PUBLIC MEETINGS

AND

INFORMATION BEHIND WHAT THIS BILL IS ABOUT.
PLEASE take a couple of minutes and review this report. How this Bill moves forward and WHO gets the shaft from it depends on YOU.

The original intent of this Bill was to get some OHV laws on the books so the yahoos out there could be controlled or cited. It also is funded by US thusly we should be the beneficiaries of these funds. The intent was not to PAY G&F, nor was it intended to pay outright for total conservation as is being demanded by the enviros. It's to HELP the land management agencies MANAGE the lands and trail systems for US.

THANKS to all for your attention to this very critical issue!

Sandee

Arizona Game and Fish Department
NEWS RELEASE
For immediate release Oct. 16, 2006

Public input sought on Arizona?s OHV management bill

PHOENIX ? The Arizona Game and Fish Department, on behalf of the Off-highway Vehicle Legislative Workgroup, is seeking input from the public regarding the ?Copper Sticker? off-highway vehicle (OHV) user fee proposed legislation. A series of informational open houses will be held around the state in October and November, and written comment will be accepted until Nov. 26.

The Off-highway Vehicle Legislative Workgroup, a group comprised of OHV recreationists and outdoor user groups, land management agencies, county and local governments, and Game and Fish, have worked together to develop a ?copper sticker? program to improve OHV management in Arizona. The bill will enhance funding for OHV programs including the maintenance and development of OHV trails and routes, education and information programs, enhanced law enforcement resources and mitigation for damage to environmental, historical and cultural resources from OHV recreation.

Informational public meetings describing the OHV user driven bill?s highlights will be held from 7 to 9 p.m. on the following dates:

? Tuesday, Oct. 24 ? Tucson, Arizona Game and Fish Department regional office 555 N. Greasewood Road

? Wednesday, Oct. 25 ? Benson, Cochise College-Benson Center 1025 S. Highway 90

? Monday, Oct. 30 ? Prescott, Prescott Valley Council Chambers 7501 E. Civic Circle

? Thursday, Nov. 2 ? Pinetop, Arizona Game and Fish Department regional office 2878 E. White Mountain Boulevard

? Friday, Nov. 3 ? Mesa, City Of Mesa Utilities Department 640 North Mesa Drive

? Monday, Nov. 6 ? Yuma, Arizona Game and Fish Department regional office 9140 E. 28th Street

? Tuesday, Nov. 7 ? Kingman, Arizona Game and Fish Department regional office 5325 N. Stockton Hill Road

? Wednesday, Nov. 8 ? Flagstaff, Arizona Game and Fish Department regional office 3500 S. Lake Mary Road

? Wednesday, Nov. 15 - Glendale, Glendale Foothills Branch Library 19055 N. 57th Avenue

? Thursday, Nov. 16 ? Safford, Eastern Arizona College Bonita Room 1014 N. College Avenue

The proposed legislation can be downloaded and additional information can be obtained from the department?s Web site at azgfd.gov/ohv.

Written comment can submitted until Nov. 26 at the meetings, through the Game and Fish Web site or by U.S. mail to OHV Comments, c/o Joe Sacco, Arizona Game and Fish Department, 2221 W. Greenway Road, Phoenix, AZ 85023-4399.

At this time the Arizona OHV Coalition (AZOHVC) is in a "holding" stance. Last year between G&F outright lieing and submitting a proposal that was not agreed to by the Task Team, and then the legislature tore it apart from there, the OHV community KILLED all three bills G&F kept submitting. This year G&F asked the OHV members of the Task Team to "draft a proposal". We did............. It was submitted to the Task Team and the Team agreed to all of it other than WHO would be required to purchase a Copper Sticker. The draft proposal asked that EVERYONE driving a vehicle off a highway or maintained road/trail would need a CS. This included the equestrians that drive their one ton truck with a horse trailer behind them; or the mountain biker driving his mini=truck or car with his bike on top or in the back heading to his favorite bike trail; OR the Sierra Clubber or bird watcher heading to a Wilderness area or bird watching area. They're all doing "impact" and "using" the trails. G&F INSIST the street licensed/registered full sized vehicles do not need a CS, thusly eliminating all recreationists that are "using" the trails but are not OHV recreation specific. The original intent was this was to be a USER FEE. Just for specific "users"?????????????

ALL ATV's, licensed or not, ALL MC, licensed or not and Unlicensed 4x4's MUST HAVE A COPPER STICKER............

There are numerous other issues G&F have eliminated from the proposal. The AZ OHV Coalition drafted a RESOLUTION (see below) with REQUIREMENTS of issues that must be back in the bill proposal. In the general Task Team meeting last week, G&F REFUSED to even look at the Resolution. They announced the G&F Commission directed them to PUSH FORWARD with the bill..... period. For the past year or more G&F have declared this was to be a "USER DRIVEN BILL" but now that the environmentalists have joined in this (they are DEMANDING the dollar breakdown of the 50% of the funds to go to OHV MUST BE 75% to Law Enforcement). The bill is now being heralded as a "COOPERATIVE BILL". Because G&F don't like what OHV have asked for they have now pulled all OHV Gas Tax project funding from us. It's being used as a blackmail technique.

(The dollar breakdown within the proposed bill)
7% Game & Fish for Administration
15% Game & Fish for G&F Law Enforcement
18% Game & Fish for Education (remember they already receive $800,000.00 per year for OHV Education & Law Enforcement from the OHV Gas Tax Fund)
10% State Land Dept. for an OHV Program
50% OHV......... Covering projects; grants; education AND Law Enforcement to the feds, county or city officers.

Some background info:
At this time the OHV Coalition is not actually asking to KILL the bill but we ask each and every one of you attend the meetings and DEMAND they put the issues from the Coalition RESOLUTION into the proposal. AZVJC are members of the Coalition thusly giving each of you the ability to state you support the resolution. We're trying to get a meeting with G&F Director to determine how much of this blackmail and "cooperative bill" stuff is coming from the Director and/or G&F Commission vs one individual.............. Mike Senn. Joe Sacco will be directing all of the meetings and although he IS G&F and must follow the directives from his boss (Mike Senn) he is a nice guy. He is truly trying to be up front and fair........
Their excuse at this time for the requirement they demand of 3 members to be on the Advisory Group is they believe "anyone within a business should have a fair say in how it acts or votes". They are not members of a business they are simply WELL PAID ADMINISTRATORS (Bookkeepers) to act within the parameters set forth. The bad side of this whole thing is the G&F Commission have the final say no matter how we go so it's my belief having an Advisory Group isn't worth anything. They'll be overrulled any time a grant or disbursement is approved that G&F don't agree to.

Request: The AZOHVC simply ask each of you require G&F to accept the issues as presented in the Resolution as well as get back to this being a "USER DRIVEN BILL". WE (the OHV Recreationists) are the one's paying for this, WE should be the ruling guide as to how and/or where the dollars are spent. If an agreement cannot be reached we (OHV community) can KILL the bill at that time.

Sandee

RESOLUTION
OHV Copper Sticker Program

The Arizona Off-Highway Vehicle Coalition, as officially set forth by unanimous vote of the Board of Directors on September 30, 2006

HEREBY RESOLVES to support and go forth with the Copper Sticker OHV laws and funding as amended below.

1) We agree that a Search and Rescue Fund would be a valuable addition to the bill but it is not a requirement at this time. However, the AZOHVC would like to see further investigation into how a fund of this type can be created.

2) We agree there must be a clause in the bill indicating the bill will be withdrawn due to major changes of the intent of the bill, i.e.: if we decided that the laws and penalties, along with the fees and how the Copper Sticker dollars will be distributed, would be the most important aspects of the bill and if those change or are pulled, the bill goes away.

3) We agree on a fee structure not to exceed $20.00 for the first sticker. Additional stickers will be half price for all vehicles titled to the same person.

4) We require a 60% cap on funds disbursed by the AZG&F. The cap cannot be used in the same disbursement categories two or more consecutive years. A ?Grant Guidelines? must also be developed.
The guidelines shall include, but not limited to:
a. Will this fund be reimbursement or direct pay upfront?
b. Follow basic AZ State Parks Grant guidelines.
c. Pay for NEPA?. How much?
d. Do grants require match dollars?... If so how much etc.
The development of Guidelines shall be a consensus of the task group and can be a cause for failure of this bill if a consensus is not reached.

5) We would like ?vehicle dealers? to be able to sell Copper Sticker decals.

6) We agree that any event or action under a Special Permit or hunting fishing license, while actively hunting or fishing, shall be exempt from the Copper Sticker requirement.

7) We agree a qualified lobbyist must be retained to help with legislative support for the bill. AZOHVC can provide OHV user testimony when needed, however, we do not have the resources required to drive legislative support actions. AZOHVC will not support the bill without this requirement being fulfilled.

8) The AZOHVC does not agree to the proposed changes allowing AZ Game & Fish to appoint three of the seven OHVAG appointee?s to the OHVAG. It is felt the current OHVAG nomination and appointment process allows for the most qualified person(s) to be appointed. We understand that Arizona Game & Fish is only looking to ensure the integrity of a program it would be administrator of, however, we feel the current process already allows for this requirement.

AZOHVC will agree to:
1.a) Agree to allow Arizona Game and Fish (AZG&F) to appoint two representatives to the OHV Advisory Group.
No more than two AZG&F appointees may serve on the OHVAG at the same time.

2.a) No more then one AZG&F appointee may represent a single county at any time.

3.a) Appointees must be from the official OHVAG applications submitted to State Parks.

4.a) Seats must serve the 3 year appointed terms. AZG&F cannot pull their appointments each year or mid term to replace with other appointees.

1.b) AZOHVC will not support the Copper Sticker bill if AZG&F requires more then two positions on the board and do not agree to the stipulations as stated.

IT IS FURTHER RESOLVED AZOHVC acknowledge this Bill is to be an OHV User driven bill and is ready and prepared to support the Copper Sticker bill with these minor concessions.

Respectfully submitted,

Chris Benner, Secretary
Don Hood, President
Jim Florence, V.P.
Sandee McCullen, Treasurer
Steve Carmickle, Past President
Jeff Gursh, Executive Director
Sanford Cohen, Executive Director

Antman
10-19-2006, 11:39 AM
Sandee, I will make the meeting in Pinetop on November 2.

I printed this out so I can study it futher.


Thanks again for your help on this stuff. :)

1BLKJP
10-19-2006, 04:24 PM
Sandee, based on the changes they made it would seem that all but the unlicensed buggy/trail rig would "NOT" be required to have a Copper Sticker. This makes it seem like it's sticking all of the funding from the program on our friends who ride ATV's or Single Track? Is this also from the Cooperative point of view?

And thanks for putting that together. I will begin to compose some thoughts on my own and definitely get them in for the record. I however will not be able to attend the Mesa meeting as I am in a wedding that night. I will try to get out to one of the less populated areas and attend one of those meetings.

Sandee McCullen
10-19-2006, 08:58 PM
Sandee, based on the changes they made it would seem that all but the unlicensed buggy/trail rig would "NOT" be required to have a Copper Sticker. This makes it seem like it's sticking all of the funding from the program on our friends who ride ATV's or Single Track? Is this also from the Cooperative point of view?

And thanks for putting that together. I will begin to compose some thoughts on my own and definitely get them in for the record. I however will not be able to attend the Mesa meeting as I am in a wedding that night. I will try to get out to one of the less populated areas and attend one of those meetings.

No, it's as I stated and yes, you are correct that the ATV's and MC are carrying most of the weight. This is BS but it was a concession I backed off on to at least get something started. IF "ALL" or "MANY" of OHV'ers go in stating the CS MUST be for ALL USERS OF ROADS/TRAILS OFF HIGHWAY OR MAINTAINED ROADS I believe we can convince the legislature this is needed to be a collaborative partnership for USERS. G&F keep stating "The legislature will NOT stand for a registered/licenced/insured vehicle to be "double taxed". When I ask "what about the LICENSED ATV's; MC; and now the new UTV's"....... they ignore me. They do that well now days.

Bottom line is somehow we MUST SHOW OUR DEPTH AND STRENGTHS. They have now brought in the Environmentalists stating they are "supporting G&F", not "OHV" because not enough money is going towards law enforcement and conservation". What does that tell us?

G&F are setting OHV up in that they will literally misappropriate any/all dollars from OHV that they wish.

Sierra Club declare they "purchase hunting license each year even though they don't hunt" because the dollars are spent as the enviros want. When stated "you 'use' the trails to access your Wilderness area or special area, do you not believe you are a user and cause impact". "NO, and I will not pay for a CS if the dollars do not go where "WE" feel they should go." They also are DEMANDING a seat/s on the Advisory Board. That has been discussed and argued for the past two years. Ariz. has no intention of getting OHV issues run or ruled by environmentalists like California has.

For the time being the coalition is taking a collaborative stand by showing we are TRYING TO COMPROMISE. This stand can help us if we feel we have to kill the bill down the line due to G&F not compromising or trying to work together with those that will actually be the FUNDERS. The Copper Sticker is intended to "help" land managers manage the lands and resources, NOT FUND G&F.

These guys need to be reminded on a daily schedule they are NOT land managers........... they are wildlife & habitat managers. Re the CS funds they are not "Part of"; they are "PAID administers of".

Sorry for the "band wagon" but these guys tick me off on a daily basis! ......... bet ya'll couldn't tell huh? Maybe we need to start a VOLUNTARY BASED COPPER STICKER and manage it through the Coalition. It certainly won't draw the dollars a mandated program would but it would give us POWER to enable OHV to introduce and support a proposal strictly for the USERS.

corwyyn
10-20-2006, 01:19 AM
G&F keep stating "The legislature will NOT stand for a registered/licenced/insured vehicle to be "double taxed". When I ask "what about the LICENSED ATV's; MC; and now the new UTV's"....... they ignore me. They do that well now days.
So how would this be different from the fee we pay to the State Land Department for a State Land Trust permit? That seems like a 'double tax' to me but I pay it to access places like the FJ area.

I would not have a problem paying the $20 for the Copper Sticker as long as I see some result from the program i.e. the increased enforcement you mentioned. One thing I can say is that in the few times I have been out to the Martinez/Bulldog area I have yet to see any enforcement types yet I see plenty of the 'yahoos'.

Sandee McCullen
10-20-2006, 09:25 AM
So how would this be different from the fee we pay to the State Land Department for a State Land Trust permit? That seems like a 'double tax' to me but I pay it to access places like the FJ area.

I would not have a problem paying the $20 for the Copper Sticker as long as I see some result from the program i.e. the increased enforcement you mentioned. One thing I can say is that in the few times I have been out to the Martinez/Bulldog area I have yet to see any enforcement types yet I see plenty of the 'yahoos'.

10% of the CS dollars would go to the State Land Dept. to help them with an OHV program. The CS would cover our access to / across State Trust Lands. The only time we would need a separate permit is if we , park, unload, or camp on Trust Land.

Yes, we need law enforcement but as it stands today there are no OHV Laws to actually enforce. The CS proposal addresses OHV Laws. But on the other side of "law enforcement" more law enforcement won't do us any good unless we have a solid "transportation system" or "infrastructure" in place FIRST. If G&F get away with their proposal all, or most, dollars will go to law enforcement and "conservation" for wildlife habitat. They will "cite" OHV for anything/everything they can........ Driving in washes because they believe ALL washes should be off limits to OHV; any trail they believe is "fragmenting" wildlife............. which include everything beyond the major roads; making "tire marks" on the rocks; causing oil contamination to our trails; driving by petroglyphs etc etc etc.............. There MUST be education, a trail system and understanding before law enforcement. Re "no law enforcement at Bulldog or Martinez".......... no kidding. There are no laws to enable them to force and not enough staff to be everywhere all the time.

I believe OHV is, will and should support paying $15.00 - $20.00 for a USE PERMIT but it must go towards OHV issues.......... maintenance, education, construction of loops, staging areas AND law enforcement. NOT to G&F to support hunting and G&F or to enviro's for closure.

Your point of issue is exactly what you need to express at these upcoming meetings!
1. OHV will pay if according to their proposal.
2. We NEED OHV laws
3. We NEED an adequate infrastructure & education first.
4. The Task Team has been at the table for nearly 3 years and each and every time the group reached a compromise G&F would deliberately change it if it didn't meet their plans. THIS bill must meet the OHV needs......... not G&F budget!!!
5. Hopefully all OHV that attend these meetings or send in comments will DEMAND they put the issues from the AZOHVC Resolution back into the proposal.
6. Hopefully all OHV that attend these meetings or send in comments will DEMAND "ALL vehicles OFF a highway or maintained road be required to obtain a CS." This is intended to be a USE fee ............ not a tax, not an agency funding and not to support CONSERVATION to the level of closure. RESPONSIBLE, multi-use recreation can and should be maintained on public lands.

There are:
680 Wilderness Areas in the U.S........................ 106,506,635 acres BLM manage only 6% of all Wilderness acres.

BLM manage 270,000,000 acres.................. 7,391,704 acres Wilderness Fish & Wildlife manage 500,000,000 National Wildlife Refuge Areas....................... 91,000,000 acres refuges; 20,699,117 wilderness

F/S manage 200,000,000 acres........... 34,879,167 acres wilderness NPS manage 51 Nat'l Parks; 300 National Monuments and 43,536,647 acres Wilderness

AZ BLM manage 1.4 million acres with 47 Wilderness areas .............. 4,528,913 acres White Canyon Wilderness (5800 acres) is within the MGCP.
BLM manage only 6% of all Wilderness acres.

Is there truly a reason we cannot share what's left?

G&F and the enviros want to use CS dollars to CLOSE trails to OHV for personal agenda reasons. OHV want the dollars to assure access and build for responsible multi-use recreation on public lands.

If anyone wants to meet for a Q&A session prior to the meetings please let me know and we can set up as many meetings as needed.

Stand tall............. OHV can move forward with everyone's buy-in. Be a STAKEHOLDER, you have a voice.

etropic
10-20-2006, 01:57 PM
i would like to go to a meeting and bring up these points, but I'm unfamiliar with the process and how one would actualy go about doing that.

Sandee McCullen
10-20-2006, 03:47 PM
i would like to go to a meeting and bring up these points, but I'm unfamiliar with the process and how one would actualy go about doing that.

Just show up to the meeting........... they are planning to present a 10-15 minute Power Point and then open the meeting to Q&A discussion. Each person will be allowed 2-3 minutes to speak.............. take a cheat sheet if that helps or simply state

You "believe this proposal should remain as OHV proposed and you will not support it if it does not include the Resolutions presented by the AZ OHV Coalition, of which you are a member and it must be an USER DRIVEN BILL."

The only issue that is not addressed in the resolution is the fact that ALL USERS that drive off a highway or maintained road should be required to obtain a CS. The compromise OHV did for G&F was to agree to "ALL ATV's; ALL MC; but only UNLICENSED JEEPS (full sized)." G&F and the environmentalists have pushed this because they don't want the hunters in street licenced trucks to have to pay and they don't want the hikers, mountain bikers or equestrians to pay for doing the same thing we do.......... USE THE TRAILS.

Your voice will be heard and if we can have hundreds of the AZOHVC we CAN come out on top of this bill. G&F truly believe they have the power to do as they please........ we can show them they're wrong!

1BLKJP
10-25-2006, 05:14 PM
Sandee, I haven't had a chance to talk to you personally, but did anything interesting or exciting come out of the Copper Sticker meeting yesterday in Tucson?

BRUZR
10-26-2006, 10:18 AM
It made the front page here today...

Fee program sought for off-road vehicles (http://www.havasunews.com/articles/2006/10/26/news/news02.txt)

k7mto
10-26-2006, 10:35 AM
It made the front page here today...

Fee program sought for off-road vehicles (http://www.havasunews.com/articles/2006/10/26/news/news02.txt)


?If approved, of the monies received from both sources, 7 percent would be used to administer the fund itself,? said Satter.

?Fifty percent would go for grants and agreements, 18 percent would go toward information and education, 15 percent would be dedicated to law enforcement at the Arizona Department of Game and Fish and the remaining 10 percent would go to the State Land Department,? he added.


Does this mean those with a CS would not ALSO need a State Trust Land permit?

TinyMan
10-26-2006, 11:03 AM
[QUOTE=k7mto;128320Does this mean those with a CS would not ALSO need a State Trust Land permit?[/QUOTE]


The CS would allow you to CROSS state trust land without a state land permit, but if you park on state trust land to off load your trailer, camp or anything else but cross state trust land, you'll still need the state land permit.

xFallen
10-26-2006, 11:13 AM
No, it's as I stated and yes, you are correct that the ATV's and MC are carrying most of the weight. This is BS but it was a concession I backed off on to at least get something started. IF "ALL" or "MANY" of OHV'ers go in stating the CS MUST be for ALL USERS OF ROADS/TRAILS OFF HIGHWAY OR MAINTAINED ROADS I believe we can convince the legislature this is needed to be a collaborative partnership for USERS. G&F keep stating "The legislature will NOT stand for a registered/licenced/insured vehicle to be "double taxed". When I ask "what about the LICENSED ATV's; MC; and now the new UTV's"....... they ignore me. They do that well now days.

Bottom line is somehow we MUST SHOW OUR DEPTH AND STRENGTHS. They have now brought in the Environmentalists stating they are "supporting G&F", not "OHV" because not enough money is going towards law enforcement and conservation". What does that tell us?

G&F are setting OHV up in that they will literally misappropriate any/all dollars from OHV that they wish.

Sierra Club declare they "purchase hunting license each year even though they don't hunt" because the dollars are spent as the enviros want. When stated "you 'use' the trails to access your Wilderness area or special area, do you not believe you are a user and cause impact". "NO, and I will not pay for a CS if the dollars do not go where "WE" feel they should go." They also are DEMANDING a seat/s on the Advisory Board. That has been discussed and argued for the past two years. Ariz. has no intention of getting OHV issues run or ruled by environmentalists like California has.

For the time being the coalition is taking a collaborative stand by showing we are TRYING TO COMPROMISE. This stand can help us if we feel we have to kill the bill down the line due to G&F not compromising or trying to work together with those that will actually be the FUNDERS. The Copper Sticker is intended to "help" land managers manage the lands and resources, NOT FUND G&F.

These guys need to be reminded on a daily schedule they are NOT land managers........... they are wildlife & habitat managers. Re the CS funds they are not "Part of"; they are "PAID administers of".

Sorry for the "band wagon" but these guys tick me off on a daily basis! ......... bet ya'll couldn't tell huh? Maybe we need to start a VOLUNTARY BASED COPPER STICKER and manage it through the Coalition. It certainly won't draw the dollars a mandated program would but it would give us POWER to enable OHV to introduce and support a proposal strictly for the USERS.

How can it be double taxed? Licenses are issued for ROAD GOING vehicles. OFF-ROAD is not ROAD-GOING. By their definition the licensed OHVs are ALREADY paying the tax they want to impose. Hunters are licensed to TAKE GAME. Fishermen are licensed to TAKE FISH.

What a bunch of moronic crap. If anything the licensed OHVers are the only ones who should have off-road access since they are currently the only ones licensed for it, hunting license purchased by a greenie or not.

A copper sticker should be required for anyone using off-road facilities, period, or for nobody at all.


Barry

Sandee McCullen
10-26-2006, 11:18 AM
?If approved, of the monies received from both sources, 7 percent would be used to administer the fund itself,? said Satter.

?Fifty percent would go for grants and agreements, 18 percent would go toward information and education, 15 percent would be dedicated to law enforcement at the Arizona Department of Game and Fish and the remaining 10 percent would go to the State Land Department,? he added.


Does this mean those with a CS would not ALSO need a State Trust Land permit?

If you have a Copper Sticker you will be allowed to CROSS State Trust Lands without a State Trust Recreation Permit BUT, if you stop, park, unload, camp, or picnic you still need a State Lands Permit.

Sandee McCullen
10-26-2006, 11:22 AM
How can it be double taxed? Licenses are issued for ROAD GOING vehicles. OFF-ROAD is not ROAD-GOING. By their definition the licensed OHVs are ALREADY paying the tax they want to impose. Hunters are licensed to TAKE GAME. Fishermen are licensed to TAKE FISH.

What a bunch of moronic crap. If anything the licensed OHVers are the only ones who should have off-road access since they are currently the only ones licensed for it, hunting license purchased by a greenie or not.

A copper sticker should be required for anyone using off-road facilities, period, or for nobody at all.


Barry

I AGREE.

The Task Team has again and again stated EVERYONE driving/riding off a highway or maintained road MUST HAVE A CS. G&F change this each and every time.

This is one of the MAJOR comments that need to be made in the public meetings or HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS of responses must state: Everyone or No one

Sandee McCullen
10-26-2006, 11:38 AM
Sandee, I haven't had a chance to talk to you personally, but did anything interesting or exciting come out of the Copper Sticker meeting yesterday in Tucson?

In one simple word................YES.

G&F are back to their standard operations. The "draft bill" is back to their changes. They had asked the OHV group to DRAFT a bill we could all agree on. We did this. It was presented to the CS Task Team. ALL agreed but G&F.
The AZ OHV Coalition sent a Resolution (posted above) stating the issues they would have to agree to for the OHV community to support. They didn't even LOOK at it.
They lied sooooooooooooo many times in the Tucson meeting I left shaking my head in wonder.

The AZOHVC board is working on a new DRAFT bill......... OUR BILL this time. NO CONCESSIONS. If WE have to PAY it's going to be OUR WAY. 90% - 100% of the dollars are NOT going to law enforcement. G&F will receive 15% for exclusively G&F Law Enforcement and there's another up to 60% from the 50% grant dollars that can also go to law enforcement. G&F and the enviros now want 100% of the 50% to law enforcement and/or CONSERVATION.
What do we need law enforcement for if we don't have an infrastructure to enforce? We see it as simply "OHV giving them money to allow them to cite us for whatever they believe is intruding on their lands". Such as: off a road/trail they believe we should not be on; we're fragmenting habitat; we're peeking at the wildlife breeding season or birthing season; we're driving on a rock that might be a hiding place for a lizard; or making noise or dust near their precious Wilderness areas. Or breaking the Indians aura with the land; or leaving oil EVERYWHERE............This list goes on and on.
Are YOU willing to support G&F & the enviros stand or would you rather support responsible riding; ethical and protecting or conservation methods via "mitigation" for multi-use?
Bottom line is the CS plan is GOOD and we should support it but it must not GIVE G&F or the G&F Commission full powers. The Advisory group comprised of knowledgeable OHV recreationalists must have a say.

Anyway..................... more next week.

RufftyTuffty
10-26-2006, 05:26 PM
Mute issue...at the rate of trail closures there wont be anything left requiring Copper Sticker.

I guess our friends at G&F want 90% of nothing.

~Mike

Sandee McCullen
10-26-2006, 08:47 PM
Mute issue...at the rate of trail closures there wont be anything left requiring Copper Sticker.

I guess our friends at G&F want 90% of nothing.

~Mike

I disagree........ "our rights to recreate in our own way on public land is not not a moot issue!! We are NOT going to lose everything IF WE STAND TOGETHER AND QUIT WITH THE NEGATIVE ATTITUDE. Most likely we are not going to keep EVERYTHING but with proof of working mitigation and OHV being involved instead of whinning, we can keep most and we can "add to" but it won't happen by us not trying. The only reason we're in the situation we're in right now is because OHV have not cared about anything but having fun over the past 20-30 years. Have to remember we're trying to play catchup......... the enviros have about a 30 year head start AND alot of people dipping into their pockets. We don't. We've made huge steps with just a handful of activists. Imagine what we can do with NUMBERS!

Sandee McCullen
10-27-2006, 09:45 AM
If you don't believe OHV needs to show in mass numbers at the upcoming Copper Sticker meetings take a minute to read the message below!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Points to think about:
1) This bill is intended to be a USER DRIVEN bill.
2) It is PAID by US FOR US!
3) WHY should the enviros be on the advisory board when they know nothing about OHV recreation?
4) WHY would they demand all the money for law enforcement if the intent was not to simply allow G&F to cite us for whatever they wish? WITH OUR MONEY!!!????
5) The existing Advisory Board consists of 7 members..... 5 must represent an OHV organization; 2 are Public at Large but must represent OHV in some way. Hunters; sportsmen; dealers.............. even an environmentalist that drives to a Wilderness but understands the need to join together.............. NOT CONTROL OR CLOSE.
6) These guys are demanding all or most to law enforcement and the rest to ENVIRONMENTAL REHAB........ again on our dollar!

RED SHIRTS MUST show to these meetings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ask questions or simply listen and send in your responses. I can guarantee you will not like it when you are required to purchase a Copper Sticker and receive NOTHING back. The intent is for the money to come back to US for education; trail support & maintenance; and OHV training if needed.

(PLEASE READ........... from CBD and Sierra Club)
Please tell Game and Fish to Help Protect the Public's Lands and Wildlife from Irresponsible Off-road Vehicle Activities!

Contact: Chris Kassar, Wildlife Biologist, ckassar@biologicaldiversity.org

The Arizona Game and Fish Department is seeking public input on draft legislation to establish an off-road vehicle management fund. The current draft would give off-road vehicle groups a controlling voice in deciding how this fund is allocated, and its vague language could allow it to be disproportionately spent on opening new areas to this destructive use. Your help is needed to ensure the fund is not misspent and is instead used to end illegal off-road vehicle abuse and restoring damaged lands.

The Game and Fish Department and other agencies developed the draft "Copper sticker" legislation with off-road vehicle groups. Last year a similar bill was introduced and died on the Senate floor. We need to make sure that major improvements are made to the current draft before it is introduced this time around.

Game and Fish is conducting informational open houses and also accepting written comments until November 26. Please speak up for Arizona’s wild lands by attending one of the open house meetings and providing written comments. It is critical that conservation voices be heard!

Ask it to, at a minimum, include:

- A prohibition against using the fund to expand or open up new areas to off-road vehicles.

- More funding for law enforcement. Off-road vehicles are creating major problems for law enforcement relative to trespasses – including in wilderness areas – safety and destruction of natural resources. The draft bill does not allocate adequate funds to meet enforcement needs or make much of a dent in the irresponsible and unlawful activities. We would like to see 30 percent of the fund specifically designated for enforcement.

- An aggressive restoration and mitigation program. The damage from off-road vehicles is significant. Game and Fish and State Parks should work with federal land managers to ensure restoration and mitigation of this damage. We believe a minimum of 20 percent of the fund should be specifically allocated and used for these purposes.

- A “balanced” advisory group that is not stacked with ORV club members. The Advisory Committee: 1) was appointed by two agencies that have a mission to further ORV activities and opportunities for activities, and 2) consists only of people who ride ORVs (either casually or affiliated with an organization). There should be a balance on the committee to represent other interests.

- Expanding the operation restrictions to include more specific and other environmental and safety impacts.

Background
The bill would create a user fee for off-road vehicles, which is expected to generate $4 million dollars each year. The fund could be used for the maintenance and development of ORV trails and routes, education and information programs, enhanced law enforcement, and mitigation for damaged lands. We are concerned that the first item – development of new trails and routes – will take precedence over other important issues.

Unfortunately, the committee that would determine where 50 percent of the fund is applied – the Off-Highway Vehicle Advisory Group* – is totally stacked with members of off-road vehicle clubs. In the current draft of the bill, the committee would contain five members of off-road vehicle groups and two who represent the general public or ride off-road vehicles. This group should include some people with conservation, wildlife and archaeology expertise.

The Center believes more of the fund should go to law enforcement. There is a huge problem with off-road vehicle abuse and the current language of the bill does not effectively secure funds for this serious need. A minimum of 30 percent should be set aside for enforcement and restoration.

It is also imperative that the funds are not used to open new areas to off-road vehicles, but instead is used to maintain, designate and place appropriate signs. in existing use areas. It also should fund actions to close inappropriate routes.

Additionally, an aggressive program for restoration and mitigation must be included. There is great damage to address on both public and private lands. Key wildlife areas, washes and riparian areas should be the top priority.

The draft bill does include some positive requirements, including that all ORVs shall have adequate brakes, lighted headlights and tail lights, a muffler that is in good working order, a spark arrestor, and a safety flag. Measures to increase safety and reduce noise are welcome.

Thank you for taking the time to attend and/or comment. Your participation can make a world of difference!

This action alert was compiled with the help of Sandy Bahr, Conservation Outreach Director of the Sierra Club - Grand Canyon Chapter.

*The term off-highway vehicle or OHV is interchangeable with “off-road vehicle” or ORV, but is the preferred term of the industry to make these vehicles sound less destructive.

corwyyn
10-27-2006, 01:36 PM
Hmm, so they talk a lot about 'mitigation' and 'restoration' yet they are willing to destroy a swath of an area to develop a trail so others can come out and enjoy the wonders of nature and the legacy of the local Native Americans? Oh, and I love this one:

The draft bill does include some positive requirements, including that all ORVs shall have adequate brakes, lighted headlights and tail lights, a muffler that is in good working order, a spark arrestor, and a safety flag. Measures to increase safety and reduce noise are welcome. I've seen these restrictions on Forest Service websites already so I don't understand why they think its such a big deal (except for the saftey flag one, can't recall seeing that on an FS site but I'm getting old). Sandee, I'll be keeping an eye out for the meeting times. I'm relatively new to the whole off-road thing but I really don't want tree-huggers deciding where I can or can't drive my Jeep; the government does a good enough job of that already.

T.C.'S TOY
10-27-2006, 04:37 PM
Well Sandy it's already happening on the Payette draw,right after the BF Challenge run the very next day i went out to police the area of trash and fish & game has got a brand new sign on the #198 specifying staying on the roads,now the BFG folks have put up the money for conservation of the Payatte Draw and want us to put up a sign stating Payette Draw as one of the best trails in the us in 06,this trail has been run by many the last 8 to 10 years and with liars like fish & game the fight has just begun on the Draw.....:confused: THOM (T.C.'S TOY)

Sandee McCullen
10-27-2006, 05:24 PM
Well Sandy it's already happening on the Payette draw,right after the BF Challenge run the very next day i went out to police the area of trash and fish & game has got a brand new sign on the #198 specifying staying on the roads,now the BFG folks have put up the money for conservation of the Payatte Draw and want us to put up a sign stating Payette Draw as one of the best trails in the us in 06,this trail has been run by many the last 8 to 10 years and with liars like fish & game the fight has just begun on the Draw.....:confused: THOM (T.C.'S TOY)

REMEMBER............ Game & Fish are NOT "LAND MANAGERS" and they have absolutely NO AUTHORITY to close, open or sign any trail or area. My suggestion would be to "meet your district ranger" and build a relationship. They know of the "wash" vs the original trail. Information to them re this trail being rated one of the best trails in the U.S. is substantive. Noting the original trail is "stock" and the "wash is into a challenge" is also substantive enough to make support to have both. The land managers need to recognize recreation opportunities sometimes will mean "redundancy". This is one of the biggest issues to G&F and the enviros. They don't want to consider WHY trails are where they are................. Their opinion is simply "too many".

To my knowledge F/S are ok with it but our people had best get this information to the ranger district and ensure it's identified on the maps. If not................ it will be lost.

k7mto
10-27-2006, 06:02 PM
Sounds like an illegal sign that needs to be removed. Remove it.

etropic
10-30-2006, 10:27 AM
Anyone else going to go to the meeting in Mesa?

maybe we could hook up...

corwyyn
10-30-2006, 10:36 AM
I would if I had any vacation left (I work swing shift). Keep us informed on what happens.

azcharlie
10-30-2006, 11:24 AM
I plan to be there.

Sandee McCullen
10-30-2006, 01:13 PM
I plan to be there.

I'll have a "comment sheet" out by Friday. Also a "response" to a "comment letter" that CBC and Sierra Club sent to all their members. They really don't see the picture. I'll post everything soon.

azrubyman
10-30-2006, 09:27 PM
I will do everything I can to be at this meeting.
7-9 PM
Friday, Nov. 3 - Mesa,
City Of Mesa Utilities Department
640 North Mesa Drive
Ken

o2bgpn
11-02-2006, 02:36 PM
Copper Sticker informational public meeting 7 to 9 p.m:

Friday, Nov. 3 Mesa, City Of Mesa Utilities Department 640 North Mesa Drive.

Anybody going to this meeting? If so do you have good directions to 640 N Mesa Dr? I'll be driving up from Tucson.

Thanks
Mike

etropic
11-02-2006, 02:44 PM
I would come up 10, go east on the 202 right by the casino when you first get into chandler, then take the 101 north and then take the 60 east.

Get off 60 on Mesa drive and go north (left)

Follow that past university and its somewhere over there ;) (not sure exaclty)

I think I'm going as well

o2bgpn
11-02-2006, 09:29 PM
Thanks. Later on I did a MapQuest search and found it (sometimes the ol' brain doesn't see the easiest answer). See you there.

Mike

Sandee McCullen
11-02-2006, 09:43 PM
URGENT .......... REMINDER............

Copper Sticker, G&F Meeting
FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 7:00 - 9:00 p.m.
City Of Mesa Utilities Department
640 North Mesa Drive, Mesa, AZ (extra parking at 703 N. Mesa Dr)

This meeting is important to all OHV............
Do YOU want to pay $10.00 - $50.00 PER VEHICLE each year to support G&F Law Enforcement or give it to the enviromental groups to CLOSE your trails? If not you NEED TO BE HEARD.

The G&F will present a 15-20 minute power point covering what they're calling a "concept". They will tell you the DRAFT BILL is not necessarily the proposal that will go to the legislature. What is however, is the draft they asked the OHV members to put together and the group, as a whole, agreed to. The only issue G&F did not agree to from the OHV draft was they were demanding 3 seats on the OHV Advisory board. This meant the ENVIRONMENTALS will control this board within 3 years and we then are in the same situation as California where the environmentalists CONTROL ALL GRANT DOLLARS. Do we want to be in this same situation?

The OHV Coalition presented them a Resolution covering all the issues. Their first choice was to keep the Advisory Board EXACTLY AS IT IS NOW but they allowed for a compromise (see the Coalition Resolution below) that would allow environmentals on the Advisory Board but not enable them to take control. G&F REFUSED TO EVEN LOOK AT OR CONSIDER THE RESOLUTION. It then also changed from a USER DRIVEN BILL to a "Cooperative Bill".

In a separate post following this I will post a few "questions" for the Q&A time allotted following the power point presentation. You being there in person is important. For those that cannot make the meeting it's imperative you send in your comments.........

As it is right now the OHV Coalition is standing their ground that if their issues are not accepted we will not support this bill and will actively kill it if it reaches the legislature without approval of the entire task team. This is a USER FUNDED issue........... we should not be required to support G&F nor the environmentalists.

RESOLUTION
OHV Copper Sticker Program

The Arizona Off-Highway Vehicle Coalition, as officially set forth by unanimous vote of the Board of Directors on September 30, 2006

HEREBY RESOLVES to support and go forth with the Copper Sticker OHV laws and funding as amended below.

1) We agree that a Search and Rescue Fund would be a valuable addition to the bill but it is not a requirement at this time. However, the AZOHVC would like to see further investigation into how a fund of this type can be created.

2) We agree there must be a clause in the bill indicating the bill will be withdrawn due to major changes of the intent of the bill, i.e.: if we decided that the laws and penalties, along with the fees and how the Copper Sticker dollars will be distributed, would be the most important aspects of the bill and if those change or are pulled, the bill goes away.

3) We agree on a fee structure not to exceed $20.00 for the first sticker. Additional stickers will be half price for all vehicles titled to the same person.

4) We require a 60% cap on funds disbursed by the AZG&F. The cap cannot be used in the same disbursement categories two or more consecutive years. A “Grant Guidelines” must also be developed.
The guidelines shall include, but not limited to:
a. Will this fund be reimbursement or direct pay upfront?
b. Follow basic AZ State Parks Grant guidelines.
c. Pay for NEPA…. How much?
d. Do grants require match dollars?... If so how much etc.
The development of Guidelines shall be a consensus of the task group and can be a cause for failure of this bill if a consensus is not reached.

5) We would like “vehicle dealers” to be able to sell Copper Sticker decals.

6) We agree that any event or action under a Special Permit or hunting fishing license, while actively hunting or fishing, shall be exempt from the Copper Sticker requirement.

7) We agree a qualified lobbyist must be retained to help with legislative support for the bill. AZOHVC can provide OHV user testimony when needed, however, we do not have the resources required to drive legislative support actions. AZOHVC will not support the bill without this requirement being fulfilled.

8) The AZOHVC does not agree to the proposed changes allowing AZ Game & Fish to appoint three of the seven OHVAG appointee’s to the OHVAG. It is felt the current OHVAG nomination and appointment process allows for the most qualified person(s) to be appointed. We understand that Arizona Game & Fish is only looking to ensure the integrity of a program it would be administrator of, however, we feel the current process already allows for this requirement.

AZOHVC will agree to:
1.a) Agree to allow Arizona Game and Fish (AZG&F) to appoint two representatives to the OHV Advisory Group.
No more than two AZG&F appointees may serve on the OHVAG at the same time.

2.a) No more then one AZG&F appointee may represent a single county at any time.

3.a) Appointees must be from the official OHVAG applications submitted to State Parks.

4.a) Seats must serve the 3 year appointed terms. AZG&F cannot pull their appointments each year or mid term to replace with other appointees.

1.b) AZOHVC will not support the Copper Sticker bill if AZG&F requires more then two positions on the board and do not agree to the stipulations as stated.

IT IS FURTHER RESOLVED AZOHVC acknowledge this Bill is to be an OHV User driven bill and is ready and prepared to support the Copper Sticker bill with these minor concessions.

Respectfully submitted,

Chris Benner, Secretary
Don Hood, President
Jim Florence, V.P.
Sandee McCullen, Treasurer
Steve Carmickle, Past President
Jeff Gursh, Executive Director
Sanford Cohen, Executive Director

Sandee McCullen
11-02-2006, 09:59 PM
COPPER STICKER ISSUES
City Of Mesa Utilities Department
640 North Mesa Drive, Mesa, AZ (extra parking at 703 N. Mesa Dr)


1) WHY are the licensed and unlicensed ATV's and MC's required to purchase a Copper Sticker but only the unlicensed full sized vehicles?
(remember....... this would not require the hikers that drive to their Wilderness area or trail to have a sticker even though they USE THE TRAILS. It would not require the equestrian that drives his one-ton truck with horse trailer to the back trails; or the mountain biker that drives to their favorite trails. It also allows the hunters driving their pickup truck to the back country. G&F will tell you the legislature will not allow a "double tax". When asked why the ATV's and MC's would not be a double tax we get no answer................ try asking!)

2) If this is to be a USER FEE............ why not EVERYONE driving off the highway and/or maintained trails?

3) Ask this bill go back to being a USER DRIVEN Bill, not a now identified as a "Cooperative Bill".

4) Ask the OHV Resolution be accepted.

5) Question why the OHV Advisory Board needs environmentalists................. leave the OHVAG as is. (There are two positions that allow for "OHV interested Public at Large. The remaining 5 must be from a OHV organization. These are the specialists that know and understand the OHV needs... the enviros don't care.............. they just want us to go away or close everything but what they decide is acceptable for us)

6) Note G&F receive approximately $800,000.00 from the OHV Gas Tax Fund and according to their graphs in the power point it reflects 22% of the 30% they receive ($600,000.00) go to G&F Law Enforcement. They then will receive another 15% of the extimated $4,000,000.00 from the Copper Sticker fund for law enforcement. THEIR graphs reflect $1.2 ++ M for law enforcement from OHV. The enviros AND G&F want MORE.)

7) The CS Task Team asked numerous times about 1% of the G&F funds go to Search and Rescue. They say: Can't do. Other law enforcement agencies say it can EASILY be done.

8) Specifically state: Do not allow the enviros to demand NO NEW TRAILS!!! (Maybe the enviros should take some of the dollars they spend each year on filing law suits against anything and everything and put towards their needed rehab??)

9) This fund is FROM the USERS, TO the USERS. It's for education, maintenance AND law enforcement.

10) Suggest submitting just the OHV laws................ they're good and most environmentalists have no problem with them. Get them passed, let us work on the OHV Road definition and cleaning up the CS bill to submit next year following educateing the legislature re the NEED to help the LAND MANAGERS manage the OHV use on our lands. (G&F are not land managers................. this fund is NOT intended to SUPPORT G&F budget!!)

PLEASE BE POLITE AND BRIEF...................... MAKE NOTES...................... SEND YOUR COMMENTS IN FOLLOWING THE MEETING

etropic
11-03-2006, 08:02 AM
The one thing that I don't understand is when you mention OHV "killing" the bill...

I read the rest of this thread a while ago, but I don't recal the exact "history".

What "power" do we have to kill the bill if the resolution is not accepted? This is the part of the process that I am least familiar with.

Thanks !! I'll be at the meeting :)

Sandee McCullen
11-03-2006, 08:19 AM
The one thing that I don't understand is when you mention OHV "killing" the bill...

I read the rest of this thread a while ago, but I don't recal the exact "history".

What "power" do we have to kill the bill if the resolution is not accepted? This is the part of the process that I am least familiar with.

Thanks !! I'll be at the meeting :)

"WE" can kill the bill simply by sending hundreds of letters and/or emails to our area legislator. We did it for 2 unacceptable bills last year. If this "back door" dealing from G&F continues I believe we can get the dealers; BRC; AMA and MIC behind us. A "USER" paid fee should not be used to fund G&F or environmental agendas.

RokNRich
11-03-2006, 03:01 PM
btt

Wear red !

DAKOTA
11-03-2006, 03:24 PM
Is this just north of university ?

etropic
11-03-2006, 03:52 PM
yes

o2bgpn
11-06-2006, 10:32 AM
How did the meeting go on the 3rd? Was there a good turn out?

etropic
11-06-2006, 11:03 AM
Not sure how many from AZVJC. I know there were at least three of us.

I think about 35 people or so all together? Most of them ATV guys who were more than a little pissed off that such a program is even being considered.

Of course, at this time, they are practically the only group that will have to pay unless the draft is changed.

I learned a lot. Not just about what was going on, but seeing how the process happens. And hearing different opinions.

It comes down to this. Each and everyone of us needs to start taking an ACTIVE role in some of these issues or we (OHV in general) stand to lose a lot of ground.

If you have time to wheel, you have time to care. It's that simple. be it meetings, cleanups, responsible education, etc. etc. Everyone on of us has to take a part in some way. Or none of us will have anything left.

I know that Sandee and Chris and others get on here and say that all the time. Take it from someone on the "outside" of that group that is just starting to get involved. OHV IN ARIZONA IS IN TROUBLE. We had better start getting together and active or the gov and greenies will be telling us where, when, how, why, and where we can't wheel.


Step 1. Right now, go to this site.... http://www.azgfd.gov/coppersticker
and on the right hand side there is "OHV Public Meeting Survey/Comments" fill it out and add some comments.

RokNRich
11-08-2006, 11:33 PM
Good summary etropic. It sure didn't sound like the quad guys were happy about this, I'd be willing to bet that most won't even buy the sticker at first.

I just went to the website and submitted my comments (again as they were they same as the meeting questions). Sorry I didn't stick around to BS, once the comments started I bailed as I was actually on my lunch break from work :eek:

Thanks to Sandee for representing us !

http://www.azgfd.gov/coppersticker
(bottom of the page)

azrubyman
11-09-2006, 08:11 AM
I did not make the meeting as planned due to priorities. Thank you to those that attend.
I did go on to the site and I left my comments.
Ken

Antman
11-09-2006, 08:39 AM
Yes, at least read this thread and then with an informed opinion go to the site and take the survey.

http://www.azgfd.gov/coppersticker

k7mto
11-09-2006, 08:46 AM
I filled out the survey and left comments as well.

Antman
11-09-2006, 08:53 AM
I filled out the survey and left comments as well.


Me too. If we could get everyone on here to do that, I'd be Happy.

You guys want to make me happy? :p

bdozeraz
11-10-2006, 11:39 AM
took survey, left comments, going to try to make the meeting in Glendale next week

Brent

Sandee McCullen
11-12-2006, 09:33 AM
COPPER STICKER UP-DATE............... PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT THE ENVIROS ARE UP TO AGAIN!!! THEY KNOW HOW TO SPREAD PROPAGANDA. Their message probably went out to THOUSANDS...... the worst part is those thousands probably all fund the enviro movement AND send in responses! PLEASE TAKE A COUPLE OF MINUTES AND DEFEND YOUR "FUNDS", YOUR SPORT AND YOUR RIGHTS! WE CAN WIN THIS GUYS. IT JUST TAKES YOUR HELP.

Fellow OHV enthusiasts......
Below is a copy of an email received from Chris Kassar from the Center for Biological Diversity and also Sandy Bahr from Sierra Club. This issue is involving the proposed Copper Sticker that at the last minute they enter into the picture to DEMAND more dollars to law enforcement and rehab.

My responses are in BLUE
The Game & Fish are conducting the last of the Public Meetings regarding the Copper Sticker this next week. There's one in Glendale on Wed. Nov 15................ it would be nice to have 200 RED shirts there!!!! We must show them we will not stand still for funding G&F general fund nor will we fund the radical environmentalists in their cause! You can go to the www.azgfd.gov and find the DRAFT proposal......... it's not like the draft the workgroup proposed and is not like the "concept" they portray at the public meetings.
We MUST let them know:
1. This MUST again be submitted as a USER DRIVEN BILL.
2. It MUST include the issues reflected in the AZOHVC Resolution.
3. G&F can NOT have, or appoint, exclusive member seats on the Advisory Board.
4. ALL seats on the Advisory Board MUST be OHV members or represent OHV. (If we allow radical environmentalists on this board we end up like California)
5. STate Land Dept. MUST allow the Copper Sticker to replace the State Land Permit.
6. Require 1% of the 18% to G&F Education to be directed to Search & Rescue.
7. The FEE shall be set by the ADVISORY BOARD, not G&F Commission.
8. Fee should be for EVERYONE driving off a Highway or Maintained Rd.

If you cannot make it to the meetings please go to the azgfd.gov WEB page and send in your responses. It's time we start standing up for our RIGHTS. No one can do it for you.
PLEASE FORWARD THIS MESSAGE TO ALL YOUR MEMBERS; FRIENDS; NEIGHBORS AND FAMILY. We can't beat this with 20-50 responses. That means THOUSANDS.

We MUST stand toe to toe with the enviros.......... and let G&F know this fund is paid by US, must come back to US. It is not intended to fund G&F or the enviros!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks, Sandee



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chris & Sandy,
Below in blue you will find comments in rebuttal and clarification to your notice that was sent regarding "IRRESPONSIBLE OFF-ROAD VEHICLE ACTIVITIES".

Sandee McCullen
Arizona OHV Coalition
"Joining together to Educate............. Riding Ethics; Conserve & Protect Resources and Assure Recreational Access"


Please tell Game and Fish to Help Protect the Public's Lands and Wildlife from Irresponsible Off-road Vehicle Activities!

Contact: Chris Kassar, Wildlife Biologist, ckassar@biologicaldiversity.org

The Arizona Game and Fish Department is seeking public input on draft legislation to establish an off-road vehicle management fund. The current draft would give off-road vehicle groups a controlling voice in deciding how this fund is allocated, and its vague language could allow it to be disproportionately spent on opening new areas to this destructive use. Your help is needed to ensure the fund is not misspent and is instead used to end illegal off-road vehicle abuse and restoring damaged lands.

(Yes, OHV should have a controlling voice in how the money THEY pay for a sticker to fund education, mitigation, law enforcement and yes, sometimes this will cover new trails according to need to enable land managers to manage the use. OHV nor Game & Fish have any authority to open or close trails. The land management agencies, under federal guidelines and NEPA, are the only entities able to do this. OHV do not have seats on non-motorized advisory groups. i.e.: Arizona State Parks Board; Arizona Outdoor Recreation Coordinating Commission; Conservation Acquisition Board; Historic Preservation Advisory Committee; Historic Site Review Commission; Arizona State Comittee on Trails; Archaeology Advisory Commission; Natural Areas Program Advisory Committee; or the Arizona Game & Fish Commission. Members on each of these boards/advisory groups are there because they are "specialists" in their field. I would not expect to be on the ASCOT advisory board or the Archaeology Advisory Commission as I have no knowledge of what is needed or how to achieve it. Neither of you have any knowledge of OHV nor do you care. I'm certain neither of you do any impact to the trails while driving to your favorite Wilderness area or hiking area.
There are:

680 Wilderness Areas in the U.S???????? 106,506,635 acres

BLM manage only 6% of all Wilderness acres.

BLM manage 270,000,000 acres?????? 7,391,704 acres Wilderness

Fish & Wildlife manage 500,000,000 National Wildlife Refuge Areas???????.. 91,000,000 acres refuges; 20,699,117 wilderness

F/S manage 200,000,000 acres???.. 34,879,167 acres wilderness

NPS manage 51 Nat'l Parks; 300 National Monuments and 43,536,647 acres Wilderness

AZ BLM manage 1.4 million acres with 47 Wilderness areas ????.. 4,528,913 acres

White Canyon Wilderness (5800 acres) is within the MGCP.

BLM manage only 6% of all Wilderness acres.

Is there truly a reason we cannot share what's left? )


The Game and Fish Department and other agencies developed the draft "Copper sticker" legislation with off-road vehicle groups. Last year a similar bill was introduced and died on the Senate floor. We need to make sure that major improvements are made to the current draft before it is introduced this time around.

(The bill died last year because the Senate morphed it to the point it wasn't going to help anyone. Not G&F; not OHV and not environmental issues. There would be no money for law enforcement; education or mitigation. There were no penalties for the laws proposed. )

Game and Fish is conducting informational open houses and also accepting written comments until November 26. Please speak up for Arizona?s wild lands by attending one of the open house meetings and providing written comments. It is critical that conservation voices be heard!

(The majority of motorized recreationists ARE CONSERVATIONISTS and they DO CARE about our environment. To believe that Sierra Club members; CBD; Sky Island Alliance; Forest Guardians; Wilderness Coalition etc, etc are the only U.S. Citizens that CARE or DO anything to protect our precious resources is selfish and narrow minded. )
Ask it to, at a minimum, include:

- A prohibition against using the fund to expand or open up new areas to off-road vehicles.

(If there are not new areas/trails to support the growing motorized recreation you simply end up with more impact and damage to what we have today. Both federal agencies, the MANAGERS OF PUBLIC LANDS, are directed to designate and sometimes find areas/trails suitable for sustainable motorized recreation. NEPA is done on all. No grant dollars are expended without verification of NEPA having been done. I believe you know this.............. why do you continue to turn the FACTS around to suit your beliefs? )

- More funding for law enforcement. Off-road vehicles are creating major problems for law enforcement relative to trespasses ? including in wilderness areas ? safety and destruction of natural resources. The draft bill does not allocate adequate funds to meet enforcement needs or make much of a dent in the irresponsible and unlawful activities. We would like to see 30 percent of the fund specifically designated for enforcement.

(If there is not an acceptable and sustainable system on our lands there is no need for law enforcement. At this time law enforcement are not able to cite for much regarding OHV. If we have a chance to fund ethics education it will eliminate a lot of yahoos. Don't even think to tell me the non-motorized or mechanized group do no damage or leave trash. I pick up wrappers from hiking trails every time I go out. OHV recreationists clean up ALL trash. I don't see you or your groups at any of the land clean ups OHV participate in each year .

For your information: Game & Fish receive 30% off the top of the OHV Gas Tax dollars each year for the past 13 years. (Approximately $800,000.00 a year) Of that $800,000.00 22% ($600,000.00) goes to Game & Fish for OHV Law Enforcement. Under the the Copper Sticker proposal Game & Fish receive another 15% (approx. $600,000.00) and State Land Dept. receive 10% ($100,000.00). Since G&F had tried to bar any money going to Federal Law Enforcement the feds and/or county or city can receive up to 60% of the OHV 50% for law enforcement. Game & Fish have done NOTHING regarding OHV Law Enforcement over the past 13 years because there are no laws to enforce. They can cite if they catch the FIRST encroachment across country. Not anyone after tracks have been made. Where has $600,000.00 gone each year????????????????? to Game & Fish budget, not managing OHV. )
- An aggressive restoration and mitigation program. The damage from off-road vehicles is significant. Game and Fish and State Parks should work with federal land managers to ensure restoration and mitigation of this damage. We believe a minimum of 20 percent of the fund should be specifically allocated and used for these purposes.

(ALL OHV dollars go to mainenance and mitigation. If proper education with law enforcement to back it up is done the "damage" decreases significantly. The OHV designated dollars should NOT go specifically to environmental issues any more than ASCOT or any other environmental fund goes to OHV support or mitigation. Maybe it's time the radical environmental groups stop sueing over every issue they can dream up and put it to the ground. When do these organizations show support or allocate funds to restoration. What about the impact or damage non-motorized groups cause? In other words, maybe it's time to start taking care of your own. If the radicals would step back and join at the table to work out the issues we actually might make it work. )

- A ?balanced? advisory group that is not stacked with ORV club members. The Advisory Committee: 1) was appointed by two agencies that have a mission to further ORV activities and opportunities for activities, and 2) consists only of people who ride ORVs (either casually or affiliated with an organization). There should be a balance on the committee to represent other interests.

(The OHVAG is BALANCED as it is. Each member understands OHV, it's needs, it's issues, it's growth and they are working together. They understand the Public Lands Standards & Guidelines, they attend riparian and planning workshops (seems to me I remember CBD supporting "working together in collaborative partnership........... is this only when it follows your guidelines? There are 5 seats for OHV "specialists" as well as 2 seats for Public At Large for OHV Casual Recreationists. These positions can be from Sportsman groups; shooting groups; OHV dealers AND environmental groups but since the radical environmentalists cannot see past their blinders why would you think they should have a say in developing responsible recreation? Again, OHV would not be allowed mandatory seats on ASCOT or AAC; or HPAC or numerous other advisory groups. )

- Expanding the operation restrictions to include more specific and other environmental and safety impacts.


Background
The bill would create a user fee for off-road vehicles, which is expected to generate $4 million dollars each year. The fund could be used for the maintenance and development of ORV trails and routes, education and information programs, enhanced law enforcement, and mitigation for damaged lands. We are concerned that the first item ? development of new trails and routes ? will take precedence over other important issues.

(The OHV funds that are in existance now don't "take precedence over other important issues"......... why would this fund? Again, this decision is up to the land managers NOT OHV or an Advisory Group. The land management plans, NEPA, activity plans and additions/deletions/emergency closures reflect on ALL lands regarding ALL forms of recreation. )

Unfortunately, the committee that would determine where 50 percent of the fund is applied ? the Off-Highway Vehicle Advisory Group* ? is totally stacked with members of off-road vehicle clubs. In the current draft of the bill, the committee would contain five members of off-road vehicle groups and two who represent the general public or ride off-road vehicles. This group should include some people with conservation, wildlife and archaeology expertise.

(Yes............ this is a USER PAY funding, why would you believe it shouldn't go back to the USERS? They are only trying to help the land managers meet a mandate to "manage" for ALL USES OF PUBLIC LANDS. How much are the environmentalists providing to the land managers to help? OHV USERS are paying and giving 50% to agencies (Game & Fish and State Land Dept). The OHV portion also allows up to 60% to law enforcement and ALL grants include dollars for mitigation. Most of this mitigation is either preserving arch sites; adding to signing boundries of our Wilderness areas; bridging, rerouting, closing and rehabing areas. YOU KNOW THIS.)

The Center believes more of the fund should go to law enforcement. There is a huge problem with off-road vehicle abuse and the current language of the bill does not effectively secure funds for this serious need. A minimum of 30 percent should be set aside for enforcement and restoration.

(The growth of OHV's will not reduce or stop.................. OHV recreationists are willing to pay to support their own and to help . To say this draft does not offer enough to law enforcement is unbelieveable! An additional $600,000.00 makes $1.2 MILLION to Game & Fish LAW ENFORCEMENT FROM OHV FUNDS as well as an additional 70% of the remaining 60% that Game & Fish do not receive. It's time common sense enter your goals.)

It is also imperative that the funds are not used to open new areas to off-road vehicles, but instead is used to maintain, designate and place appropriate signs. in existing use areas. It also should fund actions to close inappropriate routes.

(This is already being done.................. the land use plans WILL close inappropriate routes. They WILL require mitigation. They WILL consider the resources. They WILL be "used to maintain designate and place appropriate signs". Federal managers are mandated to allow for new trails in appropriate areas. Neither you or I will change that. We are trying to educate our users to the importance of protecting our Wilderness areas and to not encroach into these valued lands............. WHY can we not work together to SHARE the remaining lands in a respectful way?)

Additionally, an aggressive program for restoration and mitigation must be included. There is great damage to address on both public and private lands. Key wildlife areas, washes and riparian areas should be the top priority.

The draft bill does include some positive requirements, including that all ORVs shall have adequate brakes, lighted headlights and tail lights, a muffler that is in good working order, a spark arrestor, and a safety flag. Measures to increase safety and reduce noise are welcome.

(Yes and these were OUR recommendations. All by ourselves, imagine that. At one time last year the legislature pulled ALL laws. They were resubmitted but eliminated helmets, flags and cross country was allowed. Does this make sense? OHV are making the laws to govern themselves; they are FUNDING it all; and support law enforcement. We will NOT support radical environmental causes!)

Thank you for taking the time to attend and/or comment. Your participation can make a world of difference!

This action alert was compiled with the help of Sandy Bahr, Conservation Outreach Director of the Sierra Club - Grand Canyon Chapter.

*The term off-highway vehicle or OHV is interchangeable with ?off-road vehicle? or ORV, but is the preferred term of the industry to make these vehicles sound less destructive.

We do NOT support, nor condone, OFF ROAD recreation. I realize using the words "off road" helps your cause but the majority of motorized recrecationists are responsible.

o2bgpn
11-12-2006, 07:56 PM
I took the G&F survey a few days ago. Is there a way to take the survey more than once?

Sandee McCullen
11-12-2006, 09:14 PM
I took the G&F survey a few days ago. Is there a way to take the survey more than once?

If you have NEW issues you wish to express go ahead. If it's simply to duplicate what you already sent it would not be counted. Have a spouse, friend, neighbor or someone off the street send in responses.

We truly do need HUNDREDS of responses covering all issues. We know the enviros are ALL sending in responses! Remember back to Prop 106............ the enviros almost got that passed !!!!

REMINDER: AZVJC is a Charter Member of the AZOHVC. Be sure and make note of this fact in your responses. Let them know the Coalition is not just a couple of individuals!! It's ALL of us and we can show we stand together!

THANKS to all that have responded......... keep it up.

Triple-XJ
11-15-2006, 03:30 PM
Sandee,
what major "policies" in particular are affecting or play a roll in the Copper Sticker Program?
For instance; endangered species act, land use act, and so-on.

Sandee McCullen
11-19-2006, 07:29 PM
Sandee,
what major "policies" in particular are affecting or play a roll in the Copper Sticker Program?
For instance; endangered species act, land use act, and so-on.

Nothing........... this is simply a "USER PAY TO PLAY" to enable us to help the land managers "Manage" the lands to keep our ACCESS open to us. If they believe they only receive dollars to cover 130 miles of trails......... they close the remaining 1,000 to us because "they cannot manage". If WE, as users, help with the dollars and the volunteer work they have no ability to close.

50% of the fees are to come back to OHV for extra law enforcement if needed by the Feds and/or Counties (G&F get 15% for THEIR share of OHV Law Enforcement already..... They refuse to give any law enforcement dollars to the feds or counties........what a farce!); education........ ethics, signing, interpretative etc; and "on the ground projects............ new trails, loops, kiosks, fencing, mitigation (reroute around an arch site or an endangered riparian site; maybe rehab an area or fix an errosion problem; developing staging areas or specialty parks etc. We can however, with these dollars, help the feds with NEPA funding. These guys end up behind the 8 ball because they cannot apply for a grant to build a trail system because they must do environmental studies (NEPA) FIRST. If they don't have to dollars to do this is when the grant fund builds because no one is applying for project dollars thusly the state robs these dollars. These are the dollars the enviros are now DEMANDING go to them for law enforcement by G&F AND their closure of roads/trails and rehabing them. NOT IN MY LIFETIME>

I'm putting together a history of the Copper Sticker and, hopefully, explaining the reasons the OHV proposals MUST be included in the draft presented to the legislature. If it remains as is there are such huge loop holes the entire state OHV program will fall in !!! WE LOSE!!

T.C.'S TOY
11-23-2006, 05:53 PM
Reply Sent As Far As Rim Country 4 Wheelers Donna Campbell Vice President, And Reply Sent As Far As "High Country Renegades" Prez Thom Campbell.....(T.C.'S TOY)

corwyyn
11-24-2006, 09:56 PM
Just went and took the survey and left comments.

xFallen
11-25-2006, 05:15 AM
Just went and took the survey and left comments.

As this thread has pointed out, the survey is useless. It is non-scientific and poorly put together.

Please send and email or letter. It will better ensure your voice is heard.


Barry