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View Full Version : Lower Sycamore being closed?



OlneyJeeps
09-02-2006, 08:11 PM
On way out from Explorer extraction from Coves of Saguaro, was informed that is done.... Lower Sycamore is being closed for 10-15 years for revegitation. same is possible/likely for rolls area

Anyone?

SHNIPE
09-02-2006, 08:29 PM
HOLY! wouldnt doubt it nor be SUPERsurprised if it was. i dont like the idea of the trails being closed but taht main area is always SOO trashed that even if we had a monthly cleanup it would still be overly dumped on. I hope this doesnt extend all the way up to squeeze.

ONly thing i saw on the blm news releases was about the fire restrictions for the area being released http://www.blm.gov/az/newsrels/2006news/fire_restrict_pdo_lifted.html

DFRacing
09-02-2006, 08:59 PM
The problem is, do you really think closing it is going to solve the problem. All the idiots that party and trash the place will do somewhere else.

ryan rich
09-02-2006, 09:25 PM
my buddys neighbor is part of save sycamore or some thing like that he said that there was a meeting just a week ago or some thing and there r certain trails getting closed mostly single track and the 1 that runs along the high way from upper to lower and maybe a few other hope this is all they close

Sandee McCullen
09-02-2006, 09:40 PM
On way out from Explorer extraction from Coves of Saguaro, was informed that is done.... Lower Sycamore is being closed for 10-15 years for revegitation. same is possible/likely for rolls area

Anyone?

Sycamore is NOT BEING CLOSED!!!! How RUMORS do spread!!!

The fact is Lower Sycamore and all the way north of Sugarloaf Mtn is being designated as a premiere OHV area! About 88,000 acres for motorized recreation. Most of the north area will be single track trails.........; most of lower will be designated TRAILS for ATV's and 4x4 trails will connect to an outside trail system. At Lower Sycamore there will be information kiosks; ramadas; ATV tracks for beginners as "tot lots"; camping plus a 4x4 "play area" near the river. There will be a competitive, extreme rock crawling area around Sugarloaf Mtn. There WILL be a couple of CLOSED areas in a couple of sensitive riparian areas but these areas will be developed for those that like the solitude and scenery. The Lower Sycamore entrance as it is now will be closed and the main entrance will be moved to enter directly across the highway from the intersection of Saguaro Lake. This area will be gated ......... enter by permit only. The Friends of Sycamore are suggesting this be a "fee area" but this will be down the line as there are a number of issues to consider although the up side is 85% of the fees must stay within the area that would help with future development.

EVERYONE is welcome to the FOS meetings. YOUR input and thoughts for a quality riding area are always important. Meetings are normally the second Tues evening (7:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m.) at the Mesa FS Ranger District office in Mesa.

SHNIPE
09-02-2006, 10:31 PM
AWESOME SANDEE! Thanks for the info! They cant close the home of ROC without our approval anyway :D

Sandee McCullen
09-02-2006, 10:37 PM
I'm sick of seeing the trashed out cars sitting down there, hopefully the gate will slow it down a little... I just hope we don't lose squeeze rock as an area to the "Meditation Crew"...

And yes I'd be happy to pay a fee to wheel Squeeze...

None of the 4x4 trails are looking at closure........... The biologists have some heartburn with Rocker Panel Pass but I believe we'll make it through without closure. They tell us we have to "bite the bullet and compromise" all the time..... looks to me like it's time for them to do the same. The Friends of Sycamore are going through a complete route evaluation now. We did the first 1/2 a couple of weeks ago................. hope to finish Sept. 15-17. If anyones interested in the process or want to be involved, please let me know..............

Re the dumping; shooting; drugs and parties: It's a known fact these guys don't want to be around "families" or responsible recreation. There will also be big time law enforcement that will follow with the designation of the recreation area. We know these guys will simply "move somewhere else" but for now our recreation area will hopefuly be safe & clean.

SHNIPE
09-03-2006, 10:05 AM
Sandee Yjunk and i would like to help in any way possible. I emailed the FOS as well. John and i would like to start trying to get some of the bigger trash pieces taken out of the area including the burned/beaten/trashed car carcass halfway up to squeeze. We plan on going out on friday all day and getting a general idea as to the condition of all the areas we can get to and marking our findings on some topo maps i have for future reference.

OlneyJeeps
09-03-2006, 11:24 AM
[QUOTE=Sandee McCullen;113557]Sycamore is NOT BEING CLOSED!!!! How RUMORS do spread!!!

QUOTE]


I was just repeating what the forest ranger ( who said he had to Jeeps and enjoyed the area as well ) was telling me. he did not seem at all happy about it as he forsaw the idiots (who garbage up the place) would just go elsewhere

Sandee McCullen
09-03-2006, 04:33 PM
[QUOTE=Sandee McCullen;113557]Sycamore is NOT BEING CLOSED!!!! How RUMORS do spread!!!

QUOTE]


I was just repeating what the forest ranger ( who said he had to Jeeps and enjoyed the area as well ) was telling me. he did not seem at all happy about it as he forsaw the idiots (who garbage up the place) would just go elsewhere

HELP........... when we're talking with land management rangers or law enforcement officers or G&F rangers that tell us things like "will be closed" etc.......... PLEASE get a name. This is not intended for reprimand........ it's for education. When just one recreationist is told "CLOSED" it seems to snowball and by the end of 24 hours we find the trail not only closed but obliterated from maps. FS is particularily bad with having most of their rangers thinking or doing something different. Rangers within the same district are many times on a different path or give out different information.

ON THE BAND WAGON AGAIN............. this is a good time to mention the Forest Service Workshop this coming weekend at the Buttes in Tempe. It's funded and supported by NOHVCC and is intended to EDUCATE both the agency on "consistency" and "collaborative partnerships" regarding how to get FS inventory and designation done. Sat & Sun meeting will be geared to US on how we can and must, hold their feet to the fire in a consistent and fair process. Anyone recreating in the National Forests in ARizona would benefit from this workshop. The Forests MUST complete a Transportation Plan within the next 3 years. If WE don't do the inventory for our favorite trails etc.............. We DON'T HAVE THEM. Forest service will simply designate what they have within their system plan from the 80's. (Remember........ 80% of the trails used today are NOT on this transportation system)
The workshop is FREE but you do need to register.
For more information go to: nohvcc.org and follow the prompts to register for the Arizona Evaluation Workshop. If we don't understand our rights we will not get OHV areas like Sycamore dedicated to our sport. We NEED YOUR HELP.

I'm off by Band Wagon but.................... :>)
It would be great to see 100 RED shirts in attendance. This workshop is for US.................... to HELP US understand our RIGHTS re process.

David C
09-03-2006, 08:32 PM
On way out from Explorer extraction from Coves of Saguaro, was informed that is done.... Lower Sycamore is being closed for 10-15 years for revegitation. same is possible/likely for rolls area

Anyone?

I will vouch for OlneyJeeps - I was standing there as well when the forest service guy told us Lower Sycamore would be closed. I am trying to remember the name on his name tag. I looked at it several times but I didn't think to actually remember it! :rolleyes: If I do suddenly recall what it was, I will surely let Sandee know.

Sandee McCullen
09-03-2006, 08:51 PM
I will vouch for OlneyJeeps - I was standing there as well when the forest service guy told us Lower Sycamore would be closed. I am trying to remember the name on his name tag. I looked at it several times but I didn't think to actually remember it! :rolleyes: If I do suddenly recall what it was, I will surely let Sandee know.

Hey......... I'm NOT DOUBTING anyone. I fully believe a ranger told you guys Sycamore was going to close. My point was "we need to have names and facts" to enable us to gain "Consistency" and "agreement" between rangers. Just food for thought...............
Re FACTS: Sycamore is NOT closing nor is there any intent or plans of doing so. If anyone is interested in discussing what's happening or what you all can do please feel free to call Art Wirtz, Mesa District Ranger. He's excited about working FOR OHV, not against. When Reno Pass reopens it will be a "hardcore" trail and he is working with us for an extreme rock crawling course and trails. That's a huge step forward for OHV for land agencies in AZ. The Tonto Supervisor, Gene Blankenbaker, is also working with us. He is not as savvy about OHV but he certainly has been willing to work with us. He appreciates your help with clean-ups and volunteer projects and recognizes OHV contributions. Keep up the good work.

OlneyJeeps
09-03-2006, 10:33 PM
I will talk to Bill (guy I was originally referred to when tried to contact Jim... saw him at gate when we were on way in). Should be easy to id. the guy we spoke with (he seemed rather proud of his 2 Jeep comanchee pickups and sounded like they were only ones out there. In the event I go to AK before contacting FS, the guy who claimed sycamore was going to be close was late 20-s little heavy, short sandy hair and was in green truck (partner had short black hair). They told us to contact "Daniel Bray, field Sup. for Butcher Jones, bulldog area (480)610-3330." They both were quite friendly, quite appreciative of our work, allowed us to load up on FREE MESQUITE (they trimmed several large trees invited us and anyone elst to take what they wanted... unfortuneatly after letting trailer sit over night, filled with black sap which drained on and severely stained driveway:mad: ) and park whereever we wanted while Stephanie took a quick dip in the lake.

desertdawg
09-26-2006, 06:40 PM
While I was out at Willow Springs Monday a female Forest Service LEO stopped by to chat with us and to make sure we had our permits. I asked her about the new permit system for Bulldog Canyon that's supposed to take place November 1st. She told us that they are going to issue a permit in the form of a card rather than the current paper format. She said the permit will include Bulldog Canyon, Sycamore creek, Sugarloaf, and Four Peaks. She also said each vehicle entering these areas will be required to have a permit unlike the previous system where you could add other vehicles.

She also mentioned that in the future there will be a fee for the permit, which will allow Forest Service LEO's to patrol the areas full time.

Just thought I would share the info.:)

Hackle
09-26-2006, 08:29 PM
Get Names of these people. They can not charge fees until they have installed improvements. Has anyone seen bathrooms installed? Parking areas improved? Education Kiosks installed and trails mapped and signed?
NO! There are none. The forest service can not charge fees to areas with no improvements. The main road into the area will be closed for a while when they work on the highway. In the end this will be good for us as they will install some improvements as payment to the Forest Service for using the area for Road Construction parking.
Jim F.

desertdawg
09-26-2006, 08:51 PM
She didn't imply that the fees would be in the near future, she just mentioned that eventually sometime in the future there would be fees. The way I took it is it would'nt be for quite a while.

Sandee McCullen
09-27-2006, 03:49 AM
She didn't imply that the fees would be in the near future, she just mentioned that eventually sometime in the future there would be fees. The way I took it is it would'nt be for quite a while.

Hackle is absolutely correct........... it's important you get names. Unless we have names it's difficult to gain "CONSISTENCY". Rangers within the same forest district say and do different things. I'm not sure about the "permit" system including Lower Sycamore, Four Peaks, Bulldog etc either. I know Cave Creek (FR42 area) will be by permit but the entire area will be fenced first. Lower Sycamore will be by permit also but even that is a ways down the road. Re "FEES" that's another thing. NO FEES can be charged for any area unless there are full upgrades for the area. To drive through, park, etc fees cannot be charged. Now or in the future. The Recreational Enhancement Act (REA) has very strict guidelines that must be followed.

This is part of the reason WE MUST BE INVOLVED in the upcoming planning. Meet your ranger and keep involved and follow their planning CLOSELY. Unless we do the inventory of existing trails in each ranger district they will not be on the designation maps unless FS already have them and that is doubtful. We lost 1100 miles of trails in the late 80's.............. don't let that happen again!