Warning about Max 4x4

[Xtreme Engineer]

I am writing this warning thread because I have had such bad experiences with Max 4x4's business operations. I normally would never go to an extent like this to warn others about other businesses. This is however, the worst experince I have had from a business in my life and certainly feel others should be aware.

I put a deposit of $350 down for a gear installation in November '05. I informed Max 4x4 of my financial situation which was why I could only do a deposit, making clear that I needed to try to save money to make the purchase. I was never informed of anything being non-refundable, and there were no contracts signed or postings in the store stating deposits are non-refundable. I still have not gotten enough money to purchase the gears and called to ask for a refund. I called on 4 separate occasions over a period of 2 weeks, asking for a refund and to speak with the owner Kevin Carr. I continued to receive the same response every time; that I will be receiving a call back from Kevin shortly and my phone number was taken down. I never received a call back. The 5th time I called I was told by Jeremy (an employee) that he had talked to Kevin and that I was unable to receive a refund. He explained that all deposits are non refundable and because I waited so long, there is no way I could receive a refund. So I called in again (6th time) to try to talk to Kevin and was told he would be calling me back as soon as he is off the other line. Kevin has still not called me back (the 6th call was placed on July 31st). Jeremy did acknowledge that my deposit was in the computer. I also spoke with the employer who did the transaction and he informed me that the deposit was indeed refundable. I have since filed a report against Max 4x4 with the Better Business Bureau. I have also spoken with a lawyer and several business owners and managers who all concur that I should receive a refund. Everyone I have spoken with is baffled that Max 4x4 is handling the situation so poorly. Proper business ethics are far from sight for Max 4x4, and I can’t imagine what they would do over more serious issues involving more serious transactions: repairs, warranty, defects.

Thank you for your time

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

The AZ state law says that ALL deposits are refundable, unless services are rendered. In this case it would seem no services were rendered???? Have you tried pming Kevin????

Jason

[Az Bratt Pakk]

Keep us informed of the out come of this.Good PR will go a long way,but Bad PR will take you further in the wrong direction.Good Luck

[1toughxj]

He didn't have the nuts to speak with me either when we had our differences. I think Jeremy was the empolyee that he hid behind when I called as well.

Actually, it was Lee that I talked to. I checked my notes......

[ROXMAN]

:confused: This situation suprises me. I have had nothing but great service from Max 4X4. I had a issue with some motor lifts and they rectified the problem professionaly and promptly.
Hope this gets settled with a fair outcome for all involved.

[Allen]

I'll be sure to cross that place off in my list of 4x4 shops! Not a good way to impress future customers!

[FrenchChili]

I'll be sure to cross that place off in my list of 4x4 shops! Not a good way to impress future customers!

I only had great service and spoke to Kevin on several occasions. Great guy and so far so good. It's hard to beleive things like this happen but it looks like they do. Maybe Kev wants to share his side of the story...not saying the poster is lying or anything but we know how things can be differently perceived on both sides....

0.02

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

I consider these threads to be more informative than bashing any particular person or vendor. I hope there is a positive outcome on this one....


.02

[RokNRich]

I consider these threads to be more informative than bashing any particular person or vendor. I hope there is a positive outcome on this one....


.02

Really ? I've always kind of cringed when you guys get called out. We don't have Kevins side of the story and I could just imagine how I'd respond if I read this about my business. Hard to find win-win in this scanario.

Maybe there is someway to try to handle this offline at first, if Kevin really is a crappy business man, then maybe he shouldn't be a sponsor.

But in this case, I'm not sure the OP is right. A deposit means you plan on purchasing something. It sounds like you gave him the money to buy gears, he bought the gears, and then you never had the work done and want your money back. But it could just be my poor reading comprehension skills.

Were you purchasing gears as well as the install ?

[thedon]

A lot of Small and large business run into problems time and again the sign of and good business is how fast they try to fix the problem. I have see this a lot in the industry. Most off road shop start from a guy how loves the off road and is taking the hobby to the next level and go in business for them selfs but some times they are over there heads. They try to do right by there customers but things do happen. I have always thought yelling never salved anything.

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

Really ? I've always kind of cringed when you guys get called out. We don't have Kevins side of the story and I could just imagine how I'd respond if I read this about my business. Hard to find win-win in this scanario.

Maybe there is someway to try to handle this offline at first, if Kevin really is a crappy business man, then maybe he shouldn't be a sponsor.

But in this case, I'm not sure the OP is right. A deposit means you plan on purchasing something. It sounds like you gave him the money to buy gears, he bought the gears, and then you never had the work done and want your money back. But it could just be my poor reading comprehension skills.

Were you purchasing gears as well as the install ?


There is a cringe effect when you read about your biz in a thread and you were unaware of a problem. I do agree that a dispute should be handled offline..BUT if the resolution was not mutual and there is a breach of communication between the 2 party's then a post maybe necessary..

X2 .02

[RokNRich]

BUT if the resolution was not mutual and there is a breach of communication between the 2 party's then a post maybe necessary..

X2 .02

I agree with that, sure. If someone is pushing a crappy product or is flat out ripping you off, this IS the place to bring it up. It just seems to me that this one could have been taken care of offline. Phones don't get answered because it is EASY not to answer them.......Anyway I wasn't there so I'll just shut up.

G'night Jeepers !

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

Lets stay focused on the topic at hand...I don't remember the thread saying anything about Nick at POR????

[SHNIPE]

This is about when businesses go bad. Not trying to get anywhere, just informing the public. Are you disputing my claim? BTW, PM ignored, I'm not the only one who was caught in your mess. Others will concur.

This was about MAX 4x4 not POR. i understand that youre upset about your dealings but lets keep this one about the specific shop and not ALL shops. If it were about ALL shops i woulda brought up about the time that Cole laughed at my jeep when i brought it to 4WS. But its about MAX so i left my story out :D

Make a diff thread please so as to not confuse the issue at hand IF you feel the need to continue with your rant.

[Craig]

What kills me is when people jump on a vendor without knowing the whole story. "I'll never do business with them" after hearing only one complaint! I think I can safely say there is not one shop in this entire town that has never had a complaint. I happen to know that "you can't please all of the people all of the time". Most of the time it is the SOB that you bent over backwards for and didn't make a dime off of, that drags you through the mud.

Let Kevin respond before you hang him. Even if he is wrong, cut him some slack. We all make bad decisions sometimes.

[Renob]

Make a diff thread please so as to not confuse the issue at hand.Already been done.
http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/showthread.php?t=15875

[Xtreme Engineer]

Back on topic:
In regards to going to the extent to post this online. I am an honest man and keep my honest word. What I posted in my original post is 100% fact. I repeatedly made a full attempt to get a hold of Kevin at Max 4x4 on 6 seperate occasions (everytime speaking to Jeremy who assured me Kevin would be calling me back). Kevin never called me back, and infact two times I heard him speaking in the background. I gave my phone number everytime and always tried to resolve this issue offline which was over a month ago. I am very busy with work and school and would only resort to posting anything online as a last resort. I have been waiting for his calls for too long and have since had to resort to filing a case against them with the Better Business Bureau and posting this thread online.

Regarding service rendered or the purchase of gears. I was informed at the transaction that as soon as I made full payment I would make my choice of gear ratio which at the time was undecided(was not sure how much I was going to lift my jeep).-->The gears would only then be ordered. During one of my phone conversations with Jeremy I also mentioned this to him and he had concurred that there were no gears ordered and they were unaware of what ratio I was going to go with.

[xFallen]

This was about MAX 4x4 not POR. i understand that youre upset about your dealings but lets keep this one about the specific shop and not ALL shops. If it were about ALL shops i woulda brought up about the time that Cole laughed at my jeep when i brought it to 4WS. But its about MAX so i left my story out :D

Make a diff thread please so as to not confuse the issue at hand IF you feel the need to continue with your rant.

Just shows that Cole has a sense of humor. :D


Barry

[SHNIPE]

Already been done.
http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/showthread.php?t=15875

Sorry Renob i wasnt paying attention to the other forum. I already started there :D

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

What kills me is when people jump on a vendor without knowing the whole story. "I'll never do business with them" after hearing only one complaint! I think I can safely say there is not one shop in this entire town that has never had a complaint. I happen to know that "you can't please all of the people all of the time". Most of the time it is the SOB that you bent over backwards for and didn't make a dime off of, that drags you through the mud.
Let Kevin respond before you hang him. Even if he is wrong, cut him some slack. We all make bad decisions sometimes.

Ain't that the truth.. I reserve my opinions until kevin responds

Back on topic:
In regards to going to the extent to post this online. I am an honest man and keep my honest word. What I posted in my original post is 100% fact. I repeatedly made a full attempt to get a hold of Kevin at Max 4x4 on 6 seperate occasions (everytime speaking to Jeremy who assured me Kevin would be calling me back). Kevin never called me back, and infact two times I heard him speaking in the background. I gave my phone number everytime and always tried to resolve this issue offline which was over a month ago. I am very busy with work and school and would only resort to posting anything online as a last resort. I have been waiting for his calls for too long and have since had to resort to filing a case against them with the Better Business Bureau and posting this thread online.

Regarding service rendered or the purchase of gears. I was informed at the transaction that as soon as I made full payment I would make my choice of gear ratio which at the time was undecided(was not sure how much I was going to lift my jeep).-->The gears would only then be ordered. During one of my phone conversations with Jeremy I also mentioned this to him and he had concurred that there were no gears ordered and they were unaware of what ratio I was going to go with.


Sounds like no service was rendered and parts were not ordered..no loss to max4x4????

[SHNIPE]

Popcorn smilie... can't find one..

http://www.r6messagenet.com/forums/images/smilies/Popcorn.gif See the lengths i go through for my fellow jeepers.

I agree with Jason that as a last resort a post here is warranted when no other modes of communication are efficient.

Kevin im sure will chime in with his side.. a resolution will be found and then we all will go wheeling this weekend... well i wont. ill be stuck at work so screw all of you :D

[Allen]

What kills me is when people jump on a vendor without knowing the whole story. "I'll never do business with them" after hearing only one complaint! I think I can safely say there is not one shop in this entire town that has never had a complaint. I happen to know that "you can't please all of the people all of the time". Most of the time it is the SOB that you bent over backwards for and didn't make a dime off of, that drags you through the mud.

Let Kevin respond before you hang him. Even if he is wrong, cut him some slack. We all make bad decisions sometimes.

When I said I'd cross them off my list I was only implying 'that is what you tend to do when you hear this stuff". I was in no way implying that it was true. I've never met the guys there or seen their work. Just hearing about problems will make you look at a shop different. Most 4x4 places are run by mechanics.... not buissness majors, some problems are bound to come out sometime! How the shop owner deals with them says a lot! I had a jeep repaired at a shop in california. The owner quoted me a price to replace the t-case after a mainshaft busting experience on a trail. He did the work and he did a great job, but he had to make a few mods after he figured out the t-case he had in his shop was equiped with an SYE! His wife added every part he used to the bill even though he had not informed me of the extra parts. He didn't hesatate a second to tear up his wifes version of the bill and charge me just what he quoted. He knew he had quoted me a price, and he was sticking to it. I got a CV drivshaft for free.... he got a recomendation from me to everyone I knew! If you ever need work done on your rig in SoCal give Jim a call @ JC Fab and Design (http://www.jcfabanddesign.com/)

As for Keven and Max 4x4 lets give Keven a chance to sort it all out!

[jbjarko]

I agree, this board doesnt need that nonsense, no pun intended. As stupid as it sounds, if you can't contribute anything worthwhile, don't contribute at all. My .02

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

Please close thread..wheres a moderator when you need one???:D

[Craig]

If you ever need work done on your rig in SoCal give Jim a call @ JC Fab and Design (http://www.jcfabanddesign.com/)
Allen, I didn't mean to single you out. I just hate to see people make snap decisions based on insufficient info.

You are right. Much like most of the vendors here Jim Cox is a stand up guy. I bought two of his cages to install in not only my Jeep, but also a buddy's. I met him on the Con last year and checked out the cages he had done in a couple of Jeeps. I asked if he would ship them to me so I could do the install myself. He said he really didn't like the idea of someone else doing the welding on his stuff, but would make an exception. When I called him six months later, he remembered and said he would ship them quickly, so I could install them before my Moab trip. He didn't get them out on time and was a few days late. It jammed me up. One cage fit perfectly and on the other the A pillars were way short. I made some new ones and all is well. I never even told him they were short. I was happy he made an exception and sold me his cage. Good guy.

[TinyMan]

Wow! I can't believe I just sat here and read through 4 pages of this thread.

[Xtreme Engineer]

Sounds like no service was rendered and parts were not ordered..no loss to max4x4????


Correct, also still no response from Kevin. The BBB contacted me and informed me that they have sent a notification and he has 10 days to respond.

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

Correct, also still no response from Kevin. The BBB contacted me and informed me that they have sent a notification and he has 10 days to respond.


It would seem that Kevin does not spend much time here anymore, I have pm'ed him about an event and still nothing???

Jason

[SavageSun4x4]

Some time time ago I ordered some parts from Kevin at Max 4x4 and I offered to pay all or some of the money and Kevin told me no, we would just wait till the parts came in. I thought that was real stand up of him to do so.:D

[DsrtJeeper]

I purchased 5 IROKS from Kevin and all went great. Does this mean that Max 4x4 can do no wrong? Not at all.

Let's here your side of the story; Kevin....

[zeitlerusmc]

tinyman nailed it on the head this was a waste of time, but wait thats why im on this site in the first place!!!!!! sweet it worked its lunch time k bye

[zman]

Something does not make sense here. Why would you pay a deposit for a regear when no parts were ordered or labor performed, I would use a savings account.

zman

[arlo]

Have you called Kevins parents?:D

[roguedude]

Have you called Kevins parents?:D


Wow I gotta say, that was pretty immature.....

[Xtreme Engineer]

I am going to post a short timeline of events that led up to the posting of this thread, and a short timeline following the post of this thread. This is simply to put into perspective the number of times I have made contact with kevin and his shop, and the number of attempts I have made to get him to speak to me regarding his unwillingness to refund my deposit which is rightfully mine.

Attempts: 6 phone calls directly to Max 4x4. Everytime My name/number/reason for calling was written down for Kevin. The 6th call was made on July 31, 2006. The other 5 calls were made between July 17th and July 27th.

Attempt: Posting of this thread to AZVJC on August 23, 2006. A report was filed against Max 4x4 with the BBB on the same day. Kevin logs onto AZVJC on August 24, 2006 and posts GPS's for sale under the products forum. His last known activity was later in the day on August 24 at 1:58 pm. A report was filed against Max 4x4 with the BBB on the same day.


Result: Still no response from Kevin. The better business bureau has also notified me that he has 10 days to respond to their notification they sent to him, time is running out.

[tyota]

just FYI the BBB is no more than a complaint taker, they aren't going to shut him down or force him to give you your money back which I think you made perfectly clear is what he's doing by ignoring the fact and I think most of us agree (atleast not hearing from his side of the story) you rightfully deserve.
and besides if you haven't noticed, this forum board is now all about me and my screw ups and who closed what thread and why threads were deleted blah blah blah quit taking attention away from me:D

j/k


I would like to see some resolution to this situation though, I hate to see a fellow wheeler on the outs like this

[jeeper05]

aint been here long but it appears as if kevins running neck n neck with bumper boy who never responded to complaints about him nor has he been back on here unless i missed something

[T-cat]

will some one pass me more popcorn please :eek: :rolleyes: