Video: Metal Creek eats a TJ

[BenLurking]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2317641243639095074

[Last_Renegade]

They should make Darwin's runner up's list........

[Spongebob]

What a bunch of idiots!!

[Symon623]

Yea...and I consider them lucky......

[k7mto]

That's a few years old. Here's a pic of how they found it the next day or so...

http://www.ajeepear.com/galeria/data/3007/1buried_jeep.jpg

[Spongebob]

The sad thing is that people like this are actually allowed to produce offspring.

[Symon623]

The sad thing is that people like this are actually allowed to produce offspring.


I thought the same thing while watching the video.....

[desertfabmotors]

I will never understand people with no common sense.:confused:

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

WOW, I love river crossings..BUT you would have to be insane to cross water moving that fast!!!

[dusmcbro]

I laughed the whole time i watched that!! What idiots!

[My1stJeep]

I will never understand people with no common sense.:confused:

Todd,

Common Sense is no longer Common... Thus you must be really confused alot... :rolleyes:

[georgia]

Ok...let me set the record straight...

I personally have crossed Metal Creek dozens of times. Would you like to call me stupid, or say that I have no common sense? Come on down to Tucson...

You know we could all say the same thing about the guys that got caught in that flash flood in Twisted not so long ago... I don't personally know any of those guys, so I won't call them stupid, idiots, darwin award winners or say that they have no common sense. I guess I just have more respect than that... Sorry, this one hit home guys...I knew the folks that this happened to, and I helped in the recovery efforts...I've personally been stranded at Knik before for 16 hours..yea, not fun...

Perhaps you should know the ENTIRE story before you just assume you think you know what took place.

On the far side of it is a Glacier where you can actually get right up to it and drive on it....one of the best wheeling trips I've EVER done, and I doubt I'll ever be able to do it again, or anyone else for that matter...where else in the world can you wheel on a 50 ft thick chunk of prehistoric ice..

This "creek" is in Alaska. He's not the only guy who's ever gotten stuck there....Alaska4x4network.com has pulled out MANY rigs from that river.

Now what you all don't realize is that this is a glacial river...NOTHING like anyone has ever crossed here. When you cross it in the morning, going to the glacier, it may only be 2 ft deep and moving slowly. When you return 6 or 7 hours later is moving a bit faster, but what you don't realize is that where you crossed earlier is now 8 FEET deep, and there is NO way to tell....Glacial silt is the only thing on the bottom of the river bed, and it changes every minute.

Granted, these guys should not have been out at Knik/Metal Creek at the time of year they were, but that river is pure evil, nothing like any other river... Not to mention that they were on a recovery mission for a Nissan Pickup.

No matter how SMART you think you are, Metal Creek can take your rig whenever it feels like it...

Also, I personally know the guys that were driving this Jeep...:mad:

here is the trip report from (Alaska4x4network.com)
Well I am finnaly getting around to writing down what happend and i also noticed that the other thread has over a 1000 veiws * crazy stuff... here it goes...

Day One:

A couple days before it had been asked if any one can go out and recover this stock Nissan truck that had made it out to the glacier and had gotten stuck in the crazy silt mud. This stuff is solid when you first drive over it, once you agitate it turns to a Jello like state. Its some very deceiving stuff but that was least of out worries.

Thursday morning I wake up in a cold sweat after having a nightmare that I cannot recall and I go take a shower and start preparing my stuff and loading it up into my truck. I grab all my tools, spare parts, 2 sets a clothes and a sleeping bag. I would rather be over prepared and look like I?m paranoid that not be prepared and have to pay for it.

After every thing is loaded up I head out to the grocery store to get food and water. On my way to the store a friend of mine Justin calls me up and says he would like to come along since he doesn?t have to go to work. I pick him up and head back to the grocery store for supplies.

After leaving the store we take New Seward to 5th and drive to the Williams gas station next to Merrill field. The meeting time was 9 am I arrive early so I can fill up on gas and grab what ever I forgot to get at the grocery store. I wait around for a while looking for a black TJ and a guy in a extended cab Dodge pulls up next to me rolls down his window and asks about my truck and so on. I talk with the guy about lift kits, winches and stuff for the next couple minutes then he leaves. Wait a little longer and a black jeep on 33?s rolls up and assume it must be them. They get out and introduce themselves and we talk about how hard it is going to be to get it out and that the winch should be able to handle the load plus the Nissans clutch is fried from the previous day were they flew out there to dig it out. They drive to the pump and get gas and food.

Justin and I sitting and waiting listening to the radio, that ?wake me up inside? song is playing and he jokingly mentions that what would happened if this whole thing is a plot to kill us and steal my truck. We joke around some more and they come over and talk some more, I ask if there are any more trucks coming I was under the assumption that a huge ford was going with us, Aaron (jeep owner) says that he got called out to fly some were.

We leave town headed out town on the Glenn Highway, were doing about 60-65 since I guess jeeps have a problem with speed wobble when their running disconnects. *We pass the first Eagle River exit and another friend of mine drives by headed to work at the airport. I call him up on his cell and tell him were I?m going and what is going on.






We pull in on the road that the drag track is on and I proceed to fallow him down the road and into what looks like a neiborhood about ready to be built. We stop in a cleared lot and talk some more and get ready for the trail. I hook up my winch controller and open up my cutout. *We head out on the trail and fallow down it for a while till it gets really rutted up and we pass by a newer Chevy that some got high centered and left only to come back to have it burnt to the ground.

We emerge from the woods out into Jims creek were every body is running around on 4 wheelers and camping out. We drive by a couple more burnt up cars and cross the first water crossing with ease. We head out on the first riverbed having fun with all the whoops and stuff going along at a semi fast pace. We cut off towards the mountains to fallow another riverbed, cross another river and enter the woods again which are called the ?beaver ponds?. We weave around the woods crossing threw numerous other water holes. We come out of the woods and came upon another creek (Friday creek?). We crossed it and I hit the opposing bank with some speed and got my front end off the ground, remembering it was crap like that how I originally messed up my front end and I slowed down.

Again we drive along the riverbed and finally come upon Metal creek. Metal Creek is a bad name for this body of water. Creek is misleading Metal River is better name for it since it is about a quarter mile wide and can flow very fast. We had been warned as to the danger of this place and that it will try to kill you and will try to steal you vehicle. We got out and discussed the best plan to cross, we talk for a while looking for the best place to start the crossing, I suggest that the jeep go first since they crossed it the day their friend got stuck. They enter the water and make their way to the first bank and I fallow. We do this across the creek with out incident. Finally we are across and drive along a trail that winds along to the glacier. We come upon the Nissan and we look around a little and figure out as to how we are going to do this. I hook up my winch and pull it outg far enough to were we can figure out what we are going to need to do to get this thing out. The wheels are locked up from the silt creeping in between the wheels and brakes/hub and drying out and basically turning to cement. We jack up the truck to pull the wheels off and clean them out. We deal with the truck falling off the jacks and them sinking into the mud.

We get every thing cleaned out and the wheels roll so I strap up to the Nissan since the clutch is fried and we make our way back to the river. Once we arrive at the river we realize the water had risen. We talk some about how to do this and the jeep enters the water and makes its way to the first bank and I fallow with the Nissan still attached to me. We hop from bank to bank once more and just as the jeep starts to cross the widest part of the river it hits a drop off in the middle and starts floating away.



This is one of those times were time slows down, way down. As we watch helpless as the jeep keeps on floating away. About 300 feet down stream the jeep stops as it hits a under water sand bar. Immediately I jump out unhook the Nissan, the driver hops in with us (sorry I don?t remember his name) I haul *** up stream along the bar we were on and cross diagonally down stream towards the sand bar that was adjacent to us. *I enter the water and realize this was a bad spot to cross. I go off a drop off and water crashes over my hood, I proceed to power of out it and the engine starts to bog down I come out onto the sand bar. I haul *** down the sand bar next to were they are stuck at. By this time they are on the top of the jeep. I back up into the water with and they try to too us their tow strap, after many tries we realize the strap wont reach. I again run up stream and drive down in the water so I am about 10 feet away from them and we try to throw the strap. Were I am positioned is very silty and I can feel the ground from under my truck eroding away. I hold that position as long as I can till I?m about stuck, I get out of it and make my way to the bank ingesting more water.

They finally abandon the jeep and swim off to were I am. Glad every one is still alive and no one lost their life it is discussed as to if we can get the jeep out and we decide that at this point in time that we need to get the hell out of there and trying to recover the jeep is not worth us getting stranded out in there if my truck got sucked away with the jeep still attached. We all load up into the Dodge and I make my way up the up the river and start another crossing. *All is fine in the part of the river it is about level with the top of my 35?s and I am making it along fine until I hit a raise in the bottom of the river. Forward momentum stops and my tires start to dig in. I try to reverse and go forward again with no luck I got my boggers dug in to deep and cant climb out of the whole they have made for them selves. *If I would have made it 1 or 2 more feet I could have made it out of that part of the river. *

I realize I am not going any were and that I need to get my truck out as soon as possible since were my air box is located is now level with the water. I have Justin keep my truck from dieing. *I grab my hi-lift and wade around to the back of the truck to try and get the back up and push the jack over to get out of the hole. With no luck since the jack just sinks into the silt I pull it off and loose the handle in the water. I open up my tool box and grab my breaker bar for a handle and move up to the front of the truck and try to jack it up and again no luck.

My last chance is my winch and with nothing to hookup I decide to try and use my tire as an anchor and berry it in the ground. *We move the tire out of the back and dig a whole for it. We throw the tire in the hole with a strap attached to it and hook up the winch. I run back to my truck to find Justin has to floor my truck just to get it to stay alive at 1500 rpm. My engine is not running well it all I open my hood and find that a gray oily substance is coming out of my intake. *I hope in look at my gauges and notice that my battery isn?t charging any more. I start to winch and realize that I didn?t engage it and it was still in free spool. I run out and engage it and start to winch again only to have wasted the little bit of my battery left. *The tire pulls out of the ground. And the line speed is so slow with it only pulling the tire the battery must be dead. I shut down my truck.


We strip every thing from my truck that will can use. We grab the sleeping bag, dry clothes (both in garbage bags lucky) food and water and leave the truck. We make our way across the river on foot with every thing over out heads so we dont get them wet. *This water is near freezing and we needed dry clothes so we don?t get hypothermia. *We cross the other half of the river and finally we get the shore. Thankful to god no one was injured or died.



Part Two:
We meet up with the guy that was driving the Nissan who had made his way across the river on foot when I got stuck to go call for help. He was able to get a hold of his wife by hiking part way up a ridge were it was a strait shot to the closest cell phone tower. She was trying to get a group of people to come out and pick us up.

Were all on the bank of the river trying to realize as to what just happened. *We start to ring out our wet clothes and change into dry ones and get situated as to what are next plan of action is. Then we notice something shining in the woods about a mile away.

We start to hike over to see what it is and as we get closer we notice that there is a cabin to the right on a ridge but doesn?t look like we can hike to it. We keep on hiking to the glimmer and see that it is another cabin, if you can call it that. This thing has been trashed and there is beer cans and broken glass all over the place. *We split up and some stay to start a fire and a couple of us hike up to use cell phones and call people. *

I call my mom and tell her what?s up and to let her know I?m safe. After that I try and call some friends to try and get a hold of another friend with a lifted Toyota. *During this time the other guys are calling their wives back to see if any one is going to come out. They relay the info that their friends are going to come out as soon as the guy with the Ford lands.

*We hike back down and by then they have started a fire and started setting up camp and we start to wait. A couple hours go by as we wait. We decide to hike back up and try to call out again and see what the progress is with getting us out of there. They guy with the ford just landed I guess and started getting stuff ready and the same for the guy with the jeep and they would be out to use in a couple hours.



*A couple hours have passed and it starts to rain so we spend the next couple minutes trying to make a shelter out of a tarp we found up at one of the cabins. As soon as we get it up the rain lets up so only it?s a little sprinkle. Shortly after this we can hear the drone of an exhaust. Soon we can see headlights a couple miles away and we call up our rescue party up on the radio. They brought food water and extra clothes and most importantly a ride out.

Day Two, July 4:

I wake up later than I intended since I couldn?t get to sleep the night before for obvious reasons. *I call around trying to find a wrecker that will go out to metal creek but no one will. Finally we get a hold of a guy that says he has a friend that will do it for 3 thousand but he wont be able to leave till he is done with parade at 12. *My dad and I leave the house at 11:30 so I can pick up a set of waiters since mine were in the back of my truck. We head out of town and get on the highway towards Knik.


*We eventually get out to Knik and are waiting by the racetrack for the guy at happy hooker towing to give us a call as to when he is going to arrive. We were supposed to leave about the same time and meet up at the racetrack at the same time. We ended up waiting for 3 hours. During this time I see Curtis and the Winigers drive by but I don?t even think about waving them down.

*Its about 4pm now and the tow truck guys finally show up, they say there is only enough room for one so I hop in and leave my dad to wait. We make it about half way before we see a train of jeeps headed out along the trail. Luckily I had my frs set to the same channel as them and I could hear them talking to immediately got on and started talking to them. Told them the dodge was mine and that I was on my way out to get it.

*We make our way threw the wooded part of the trail trying to keep up with the jeeps and along the way some were we popped a tire but we were able to keep on moving since it was dually. We lost site of the jeeps and followed along the trail till we came out onto the river again. *We came out of the woods ahead of the jeeps so we got out and inspected the tire. We talked for a little then headed out towards the river again.

*When we finally made it to the river one of the first things I hear the driver of the wrecker say was that this is going to be cake. When we go closer his tune changed and said that we weren?t going to be able to get it out. *

A couple minutes have passed and it is decided that the jeeps can get closes enough to pull the dodge out. Curtis went to the first bar and had water come over the hood of his XJ. So he was going to wait till some one could walk in front of him to make sure the path in the water didn?t have any drop offs that he would slip into. *By this time Dan and I had put on our waiters and started crossing the river over to Curtis and Jerry made his way over to use as well.

*We started the second crossing and the water got to the top of our waiters but was still no problem. We both ended stumbling on a few large unstable rocks during this crossing but still no problem. We make our way down the river hoping from sand bar to sand bar, reading the river for the shallowest crossings till we come upon my truck. *


We position the jeeps so they can pull me from the front out of the hole I dug for my self. At this time I throw my transfercase in to neutral and we start to winch. I?m moving about a half foot per pull and then they have to reposition them selves. Then Dan asks me if I put my trani neutral as well. Well I feel like a jackass no wonder the tires weren?t moving. *After this it is easy to winch my truck farther. We jack up the truck using my ammo can box for a base to even out the load so it doesn?t sink into the ground and change my tire that we knocked off the bead.

*We throw a strap around my front bumper so it doesn?t fall off while we are towing across the rest of the river. *We hop to the next bar across from us and drive down it till we realize that this one is going to be hard to cross so we head up it again and cross if a different spot. We wade out into the river again to check the depth and determine it to be fine, we repeat this process till we are on the last bar from the bank of the river. *This one we have to watch out since there is a drop off were the river flows around the side of the bank. We walk out and fine the line that would be best but there was a small but steep incline in the riverbed. I hop in my truck and get ready to be towed across the final part of the river. *Curtis makes it over the incline fine but we encounter a slight problem pulling my truck over it and required a few jerks to pull me over it.

Finally I?m on the bank and relived that my truck is out of that damned river. Curtis pulls me over to where every one else is parked and I change clothes. It had been discussed if I was going to be charged the full 3k even though the towing people had done nothing except watch. *I go over to them and offer that I pay for their popped tire, their diesel and their time and not charge me 3k since they didn?t do much except go out there and watch. They said no and I said what ever and walked away. *There was a lengthy discussion between Curtis and the guy and he said he would drop it to 2k (Thanks Curtis).

We wait for the happy hooker guy to leave then we head out back to the world. *Along the way, Curtis still towing me behind his XJ he starts to over heat and his radiator drain valve thing broke off some how. He did a trail repair using the piece still in the radiator, a screw and some silicon. It worked perfect and I unhooked from Curtis and hooked up to Jerry. Again on our way again we cross another smaller creek and enter the woods. All was mostly uneventful except when I couldn?t turn fast enough (no power steering sucks!) and got my tire hung up on the side of a water hole and had to be pulled out backwards.

Were finally out to Jims creek and we have to deal with many drunk *** people running around on 4 wheelers. We see some kid whose truck looks like it was attacked by a tiger with about 20 people in the bed of his truck all screaming. Then some one peals off on 4 wheeler and comes up behind Curtis were he cant see him and cuts him off. *We are finally out to the road. Were I see my dad we stop and talk and I thank every one and there off to see were the Winigers went. My dad tows me to a store down the road and we leave my truck there till I can return with a flatbed and pick it up the next day.

[Markos]

I was going to respond to all the folks calling the guy an idiot. There was a significant story to that video, which the link video cannot portray unfortunately. I'm glad to see that georgia stepped in...

[Spongebob]

Regardless, there was still no common sense. If the creek/river is that dangerous or has the potential to be that dangerous it is a complete act of idiocy to try to cross it to save someone elses property. If they were trying to save a life, that is a different story but to save a stuck Nissan PU that had its clutch burned up was definately an error in judgement. That water was moving WAY too fast and should never had been crossed. I understand that they were on a "rescue" mission and after reading the entire story I get a better picture of what they were trying to do, so perhaps "idiots" is too strong a word, but there is no amount of convincing that it was a good idea to cross that kind of a river crossing.

[georgia]

Regardless, there was still no common sense. If the creek/river is that dangerous or has the potential to be that dangerous it is a complete act of idiocy to try to cross it to save someone elses property. If they were trying to save a life, that is a different story but to save a stuck Nissan PU that had its clutch burned up was definately an error in judgement. That water was moving WAY too fast and should never had been crossed. I understand that they were on a "rescue" mission and after reading the entire story I get a better picture of what they were trying to do, so perhaps "idiots" is too strong a word, but there is no amount of convincing that it was a good idea to cross that kind of a river crossing.

Ummm..I don't think you get it..in that video the water was moving SLOWLY...what happened is the river had erodeded away the base, thus causing the TJ to lose traction...as I said, cross it in the morning, its only 2 ft deep, cross it in the afternoon, its 6 ft deep..

Also, they were on the RETURN trip....what were they going to do...According to your logic, they should have never crossed it....should they have waited until winter? cause in that video, thats a normal Metal Creek Crossing....it just so happened that the ground beneath the TJ was washed out...

[Spongebob]

...According to your logic, they should have never crossed it....

Umm, I do get it and that is exactly what I am saying. If there was even a remote risk that the creek/river could get that bad it should've never been crossed in the first place. Write the Nissan off as a loss. Losing two other vehicles just to save someone elses doesn't make much sense to me.

[RufftyTuffty]

Not the brightest idea to try and cross a river that wide....you can tell from the start that's its gonna be atleast 3-4 foot deep and with that flow..well.

Did they walk it first???...if not they should have never crossed it.

~Mike

[georgia]

Umm, I do get it and that is exactly what I am saying. If there was even a remote risk that the creek/river could get that bad it should've never been crossed in the first place. Write the Nissan off as a loss. Losing two other vehicles just to save someone elses doesn't make much sense to me.


Ok...I'll say it one last time....You never know what the river is going to do... Yea...you can walk across it and its only knee deep in most places..but you don't weigh much...as soon as you put the weight of a vehicle into it the silt underneath in the base erodes and when you come back to cross it later, it might be knee deep or 6 feet deep.

Yes, Metal Creek is a VERY dangerous place, but my point is your calling these guys idiots and dumbasses for something I've done dozens of times...never had a problem...thank god.

Lets call out the guys in twisted...I mean...who wheels in a known wash when its raining nearby... I don't hear anyone calling them dumbasses or idiots...Yea...same thing...

Write the Nissan off as a loss.

Would you if it was your rig stuck over there?

Also, the Knik area is known for vandals, theives and vagrants...leave your rig overnight, your likley to find a burnt out shell where your rig once was when you get back...

If you ever actually make it to Alaska to wheel (probably to scared), river crossings are part of EVERY trail... I've personally crossed rivers wider than Metal Creek and deeper....I've had my entire hood submerged in water... I've run a trail called Boulder Creek, where you cross the river 31 times in a matter of 5 miles....

So, I guess according to you I am a dumbass and an idiot for wheeling in Alaska..cause if you don't like water crossings, you shouldn't wheel in AK


To everyone else reading this thread..sorry for the drama..This topic hits home with me... I'm done...call these guys whatever you want, but I know them, I've wheeled with them, and I helped recover the rig....so, guess I am a dumbass too...laterz.

[Oc1paddler]

You can tell who on this board lives in the desert and hasn't had much in the way of life experience's! Most people have a lapse in judgement at some point. That doesn't make them idiots! Alaska is a lot different than here, and the outdoorsman up thier are a little more wooly. If you want to play it safe stay inside your little box and have some one hand feed you twinkies. I hate to tell you but there is a chance that you could get in a wreck, be robbed, or even twist your ankle if you attempt to leave your house. Your better off leaving the risk taking to those of us that can handle life outside the box.
Sorry for the rant but it the people who always jump on the judgement bandwagon are the people that don't have a freakin clue about much of anything.

[Spongebob]

Ok...I'll say it one last time....You never know what the river is going to do...

My point exactly. If you think that there is a remote possibility that you're going to get in over your head...whether at the beginning or on the return why take the chance of losing your life for a vehicle?



Yes, Metal Creek is a VERY dangerous place, but my point is your calling these guys idiots and dumbasses for something I've done dozens of times...never had a problem...thank god.

You've been lucky I guess. Would you be singing the same tune if it was your rig that washed away?


Lets call out the guys in twisted...I mean...who wheels in a known wash when its raining nearby... I don't hear anyone calling them dumbasses or idiots...Yea...same thing...

You're right, these folks should be called out. Like I said in an earlier post, perhaps idiot is too strong a word, but if you're contemplating wheeling in a known flash flood area with rain on the horizon, you should probably apply a little more common sense.



Would you if it was your rig stuck over there?

Also, the Knik area is known for vandals, theives and vagrants...leave your rig overnight, your likley to find a burnt out shell where your rig once was when you get back...

I wouldn't have gotten myself into that kind of a mess in the first place (I hope :-))

If you ever actually make it to Alaska to wheel (probably to scared), river crossings are part of EVERY trail... I've personally crossed rivers wider than Metal Creek and deeper....I've had my entire hood submerged in water... I've run a trail called Boulder Creek, where you cross the river 31 times in a matter of 5 miles....

So, I guess according to you I am a dumbass and an idiot for wheeling in Alaska..cause if you don't like water crossings, you shouldn't wheel in AK.

OK, this kinda bothers me....the personal attacks. Have you ever seen a drowning victim or been part of a drowning recovery? When I was in the USMC we were sent out to recover a batallion commanders body who was too STUPID to try to cross a creek that was raging in the middle of a storm on Camp Pendleton in a Hummer. His body had to be extracted from a bunch of branches and debris. A young guy who was needlessly killed because he underestimated what running water can do. Am I scared??? Nope, but I have common sense and common sense has a healthy dose of fear mixed in. Again, I am not saying that river crossings are stupid, unnecessary or without risk, but if you think that being overly cautious with running water is weak, or indicitive of being "Scared" then perhaps you have a little to learn about offroading......regardless of how many trails you've run in AK.

[Symon623]

Ok, My turn.......I made some harsh comments on this, I agree with both sides of the perspective, When I saw it I thought they were just out wheelin and tried to cross this river? Looked like it was flowin pretty damn good to me. Looked also as if once her turned down stream the first he was still driving? but NOT trying to turn towards the oposite shore? I didn't think he was screwed until drove into the hole and actually floated right before he did the 180? This was my perspective. Personally I don't like water crossings cos they are so unpredictable? I used to live in Washington State so I know a little about water crossings and mud. IF I had to cross that river to get back to camp or ? Then I woulda had a teather (SP) or winch hooked up. Maybe this woulda drug the other guys in? But the narraraters thought he was screwed way before I did and coulda pulled him right back out? Again this is just my opinion.....Idiots? I don't think so.

For the record....I would wheel in a Alaska in a second......Even if we have to cross rivers and get muddy.....

[Steve]

The only thing that should truly matter is the fact that all appear to have made it out alive. It could've been a complete disaster with multiple lives lost. Fortunately that did not happen. In my experiences I would've never tried to make the cross. I'd have waited it out or even found another way around but that is me based on personal experiences. I find no joy in river crossing and if possible try to avoid them. Too many factors involved that can make it an unwise choice. The risks to me are to high but for others they find that andrenaline rush that some of us find on rocks, sand, hill climbs, whatever. This is there choice but if they choose to then all that is asked is to try and use as many precautions as possible as to not endanger any elses lives including there own. It is always sad to hear of these incidents and is usually just another blow to the OHV community.

[DustDweller]

I'm just impressed that it floated as long as it did

[Antman]

You can tell who on this board lives in the desert and hasn't had much in the way of life experience's! Most people have a lapse in judgement at some point. That doesn't make them idiots! Alaska is a lot different than here, and the outdoorsman up thier are a little more wooly. If you want to play it safe stay inside your little box and have some one hand feed you twinkies. I hate to tell you but there is a chance that you could get in a wreck, be robbed, or even twist your ankle if you attempt to leave your house. Your better off leaving the risk taking to those of us that can handle life outside the box.
Sorry for the rant but it the people who always jump on the judgement bandwagon are the people that don't have a freakin clue about much of anything.

I can agree and disagree with both sides, but come on with the Macho-iszm! I have been on this earth many many years and have done my share of STUPID things, but you wont see me take MY jeep across something like that whether its in Alaska or Alabama.

[FrenchChili]

Gosh that water was flowing fast:eek:

[georgia]

My point exactly. If you think that there is a remote possibility that you're going to get in over your head...whether at the beginning or on the return why take the chance of losing your life for a vehicle?





You've been lucky I guess. Would you be singing the same tune if it was your rig that washed away?




You're right, these folks should be called out. Like I said in an earlier post, perhaps idiot is too strong a word, but if you're contemplating wheeling in a known flash flood area with rain on the horizon, you should probably apply a little more common sense.





I wouldn't have gotten myself into that kind of a mess in the first place (I hope :-))



OK, this kinda bothers me....the personal attacks. Have you ever seen a drowning victim or been part of a drowning recovery? When I was in the USMC we were sent out to recover a batallion commanders body who was too STUPID to try to cross a creek that was raging in the middle of a storm on Camp Pendleton in a Hummer. His body had to be extracted from a bunch of branches and debris. A young guy who was needlessly killed because he underestimated what running water can do. Am I scared??? Nope, but I have common sense and common sense has a healthy dose of fear mixed in. Again, I am not saying that river crossings are stupid, unnecessary or without risk, but if you think that being overly cautious with running water is weak, or indicitive of being "Scared" then perhaps you have a little to learn about offroading......regardless of how many trails you've run in AK.


United States Army, 72nd Airborne...Ranger... Yea, I've been there...now that thats out of the way... Search & Rescue, Cave Rescue & Swiftwater Rescue...

Metal Creek is very very deceptive...you don't know it, you've never wheeled there.....I've crossed that creek dozens of times without incident, as well as hundreds of other rigs...The river will change in a moments notice...when they crossed it in the morning, it was probably low and moving very slowly... Just like a flash flood will pop up...what are you supposed to do...NOT WHEEL? Again, I ask...would you have abandoned your rig there?

We are just going to beat this to death..so just forget it...call them what you will...I could care less anymore... I know better.

Also, sorry about the personal attack, but you calling my personal friends idiots kinda got the ball rolling...

Again, I am not saying that river crossings are stupid, unnecessary or without risk, but if you think that being overly cautious with running water is weak, or indicitive of being "Scared" then perhaps you have a little to learn about offroading......regardless of how many trails you've run in AK.

Clayton...your not exactly that much older than I am...Second, I use EXTREME caution when I do water crossings, always have, and its always brought be home... I've been wheeling now for around 10 years.....not much I have not done on the trail...

This gentleman said it best

You can tell who on this board lives in the desert and hasn't had much in the way of life experience's! Most people have a lapse in judgement at some point. That doesn't make them idiots! Alaska is a lot different than here, and the outdoorsman up thier are a little more wooly. If you want to play it safe stay inside your little box and have some one hand feed you twinkies. I hate to tell you but there is a chance that you could get in a wreck, be robbed, or even twist your ankle if you attempt to leave your house. Your better off leaving the risk taking to those of us that can handle life outside the box.
Sorry for the rant but it the people who always jump on the judgement bandwagon are the people that don't have a freakin clue about much of anything.

[georgia]

Gosh that water was flowing fast:eek:

Ha...thats a slow day for Metal Creek...its just that the TJ lost its "footing" and yes, it was floating from the moment he turned...

[Spongebob]

You can tell who on this board lives in the desert and hasn't had much in the way of life experience's! Most people have a lapse in judgement at some point. That doesn't make them idiots! Alaska is a lot different than here, and the outdoorsman up thier are a little more wooly. If you want to play it safe stay inside your little box and have some one hand feed you twinkies. I hate to tell you but there is a chance that you could get in a wreck, be robbed, or even twist your ankle if you attempt to leave your house. Your better off leaving the risk taking to those of us that can handle life outside the box.
Sorry for the rant but it the people who always jump on the judgement bandwagon are the people that don't have a freakin clue about much of anything.

So, if you don't do stupid things then you live in a box and have no life experiences???? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Hate to tell ya this, but I've had plenty of life experiences in the way of outdoorsmanship. I don't really find a need to brag about all of the stupid risky things I've done to prove a point. I was merely trying to point out the recklessness of a couple of folks (this is of course just my opinion) in trying to cross something that just shouldn't have been crossed.

Georgia,

I apologize if I have offended you in any way by calling your friends idiots. As I mentioned earlier, Idiot was probably too strong of a word. And for the record, SGT. Clayton L. Sikes, United States Marine Corps. 1st Recon. LA - I've seen my share of stuff as well. ;)


Cheers,

[Oc1paddler]

So, if you don't do stupid things then you live in a box and have no life experiences????

I don't think that you have to do stupid things to have life experiences! Thats not even close to the point I was making. My point is that most people can make good decisions most of the time and occasionly make a mistake. I know that Ive made a few and would be willing to bet that you have to. Iam pretty sure that, that doesn't make us idiots. Seeing as we weren't there its really hard for me to beat someone up for a decision they made without having all the facts.
Just for the record, off of what I can see in the video I wouldn't have crossed myself. But I also have a background in swiftwater that most people don't. I worked as a river guide for 5 years, as well as swiftwater rescue in 2 states. And yes I have done body recoveries! Sometimes people just make a bad decision, or maybe thier just in the wrong place at the right time.

[michaelp]

Im thinking about starting a Jeep salvage company. Ill take destroyed Jeeps, melt them down and make boat anchors for the rest of you Uboat commanders.:D

[NVRSTUKXJ]

"...The river will change in a moments notice...when they crossed it in the morning, it was probably low and moving very slowly... "

then wouldn't the prudent course of action have been to stay put on dry land til the next morning when the river was low and slow again????

[Wayco]

And if we could end this thread on a good laugh, ^ I would say it was a great sucess. :D Thanks Michealp.

[georgia]

"...The river will change in a moments notice...when they crossed it in the morning, it was probably low and moving very slowly... "

then wouldn't the prudent course of action have been to stay put on dry land til the next morning when the river was low and slow again????

Sure...but we've ALL done stupid stuff before...the thing that got me fired up over this thread was how fast folks were to judge someone and a situation they knew little about...

Guess the moral of the story is that **** Happens, and sometimes we all make mistakes...does not make any of us an idiot or a dumbass...:)

[Markos]

Wheelers get caught in rivers in Alaska and die.
Wheelers roll off mountains in Colorado and die.
Wheelers get caught in flash flood in Arizona and die.
Wheelers get caught in mud Tenesse and smell.

Are they idiots? I don't know, I wasn't there. I'm sure they could have approached the situation differently, but that doesn't make them an idiot. One has to assess risk with any sport or outdoor activity. In this particular case, it sounds like the river is well traveled, but requires experience and knowledge of the 'silt' situation.

I could recommend waiting until morning. But I've never camped in Alaska. I can certainly recollect shivering all through the nigh in my 15 deg REI bag in JUNE. Would, coulda, shoulda...

[XJ Un-Limited]

Sure...but we've ALL done stupid stuff before...the thing that got me fired up over this thread was how fast folks were to judge someone and a situation they knew little about...

Guess the moral of the story is that **** Happens, and sometimes we all make mistakes...does not make any of us an idiot or a dumbass...:)

Agreed. I think you don't become an idiot or dumbass unless you repeat the situation and don't learn from it. A one time instance doesn't qualify you.

I've made many river crossings before, at the same "safe spot", but every now and then again something can throw you for a loop and change it un-expectedly.

I don't know those guys from Jim Bob across town, so I have no reason to judge them for what happened as wll as some of the other unfortunate people that have been caught in washes from this forum as if late.

[Allen]

WOW!

First of all.. I'm glad everyone got out OK! Seems to me that if your going to attemp a rescue, whether it be of people or property, you should be well prepaired, know where you are going, and be ready for the worst to happen. The people in this vid seemed to be aware of the dangers. Knowing the dangers dosnt mean your going to overcome them, just that your ready for them. Mother Nature is a b**ch! In a place like that she owns the land, and it's her will that all must overcome.

As a boat captain I was once in a situation where I found myself making a short trip into a bad situation to get some people that had gotten into trouble. I was in a 38' Californian (a trawler) with just 1 other person on board out in 26-28' swells @8sec. and 40knt. winds. Most people would call this INSANE, but I knew my boat.. the local waters, and the guy with me! We ran 3 1/2 miles thru unprotected waters to get a line to a sailboat that would have struck a rock reef in less than a minute or two! The 3 men on board were sure glad we came out in that weather.

Would I have gone if the boat were empty?? I dont think so, but if it had been my boat.....


So really, all I got to say is those guys are lucky! They are still here to tell their story. Mother Nature could have come up with a different ending in a second!

[michaelp]

I love how everyone jumps down my throat for pointing out the obvious, yet in this thread it seems majority rules.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy