blooddrive
01-03-2004, 09:46 PM
31924-31948
31924 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Sat Sep 29, 2001 9:22pm
Subject: [TR] Trip Report - FR-42 - Saturday, September 29, 2001
Hello All,
Jon Loveless lead a trail run Saturday, September 29, 2001 across FR-42
We left the Bartlett Pay Station at about 8AM.Two of the 5 Jeeps were stock and I thought we might have to strap a couple but all went well. The only near "situation" was going down the steep hill about 1/2 way into FR42 Alan Parker in a 1980 CJ&; did a nose dive and a wheel stand. He teetered on a rollover but several folks ran to his aid and were able to weight the right rear bumper enough to get him back to earth. I have linked a photo of the higheswt point of his apex in Whoops.
The rest of the trip was uneventful but fun. We were done at noon as promised and headed home from there. As usual, this was a good bunch of Jeepers.
Jon
Trip Attendees:
Jon Loveless
Bradlee Clark
Rodney Neiman
Alan Parker
Chris Boettge
Click Here to View Pictures (if available)
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
31925 From: <jeeperaz@b...>
Date: Sat Sep 29, 2001 9:26pm
Subject: Re: [TR] Trip Report - FR-42 - Saturday, September 29, 2001
Holy Geez!
I can't believe he didnt roll it. Nice pic.
http://www.azvjc.org/Gallery/Whoops.asp?I=2219
31926 From: JoeKPhx <JoeKPhx@h...>
Date: Sat Sep 29, 2001 10:13pm
Subject: RE: Re: [TR] Trip Report - FR-42 - Saturday, September 29, 2001
WOW GREAT picture.
GOD BLESS AMERICA
Joe Kearney
Pager 877-655-4991
Have a good day
-----Original Message-----
From: jeeperaz@b... [mailto:jeeperaz@b...]
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 9:26 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Trip Report - FR-42 - Saturday, September 29,
2001
Holy Geez!
I can't believe he didnt roll it. Nice pic.
http://www.azvjc.org/Gallery/Whoops.asp?I=2219
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
31927 From: <dt_horton@h...>
Date: Sat Sep 29, 2001 11:00pm
Subject: Re: [TR] Trip Report - FR-42 - Saturday, September 29, 2001
How did Alan manage to do that? Good to hear he had help. That
would have ruined his day.
Who cleaned the inside of the CJ?
;-)
Dan
31928 From: <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Sat Sep 29, 2001 11:16pm
Subject: Member Sighting
Saw a White TJ, with a Hunter Off Road sticker on the windshield, at
the AMC on Stapley and Baseline. My wife and I were on the way back
from seeing Rush Hour 2, and saw it parked in the lot. Who was that?
Mike Baney
31929 From: Brian Harmon <xjnation@h...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 6:46am
Subject: Re: Broken Arrow
Hey Bill,
It was a nice trip and Iwas glad to lead...anytime you all haved friends and
wanna trip to sedona here let me know! It was great to finaly meat you
all.....see you on the trails soon
Brian Harmon
88 XJ Laredo
http://www.cherokee-nation.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Bill Witt" <k7ant@t...>
To: "AZVJC" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [az_vjc] Broken Arrow
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 21:15:15 -0700
Thanks to all the folks we met on Broken Arrow today! One of the nicest days
four wheeling Diane and I have had in a long time. We were running late due
to a road construction project between the Rim and Camp Verde, but after the
first obstacle we ran into Brian and Keith playing in a hole. Ha Ha. Had
trouble all day keeping That trick XJ out of cracks. Lets do it again soon!
Bill and Diane W
PS Nice looking Jeeps Keith and Scott have!
Up on the Mogollon Rim in God and Four Wheeler's country.
__________________________________________________ _______________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
31930 From: Tom LaFrance <tlafrance@j...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 8:43am
Subject: Member sighting
Blockbuster, oops, I mean Cricket Pavilion last night at the MB20/Train
concert. Red XJ with a pre-runner bar and a front receiver D ring. I
was walking by to stand in the endless line and noticed the sticker on
your parked rig.
Heres a wave :)
Tom LaFrance
------------------------------------------------------------
"Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who don't"
31931 From: <ldoctor1957@a...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 6:40am
Subject: Re: Last-minute trail run announcement, Sat. 9.29, White Tanks
I just want to say thanks to Blake, Dion, and Joe for a great run last night . Clayton and I had a ball ( even after the bent drag link and tie rod ) this trail was definatly a skill tester and you guys ( and your rigs ) are awesome, cant wait to run with you all again. Maybe we can hit the upper in the daytime.
Thanks again
Jim Lambertus
31932 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 10:53am
Subject: D44 axle shaft replacement
For those of you who have blown a rear D44 axle shaft, what, if any,
problems have you encountered while doing a trail fix on it (assuming you
had a spare shaft to replace it with).
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
31933 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 11:57am
Subject: [FS] W: auto tranny rebuilder
Price:
Contact: (mark)- sickdog44@msn.com
hi, i need my 999 rebuilt/beefed(?).
i have a 904 and/or a d300
for trade/ partial trade.
cave creek area. any help
is appreciated....
mark
31934 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 0:07pm
Subject: Re: D44 axle shaft replacement
Replacement is extremely easy - depending on where it's broken and assuming
you can get the splined end out. I keep a hardwood dowel with me, just in
case I have to punch it out from the other side.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
To: "az_vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 10:53 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
> For those of you who have blown a rear D44 axle shaft, what, if any,
> problems have you encountered while doing a trail fix on it (assuming you
> had a spare shaft to replace it with).
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
31935 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 2:42pm
Subject: RE: D44 axle shaft replacement
Doug....does this means if the left side broke, and the spline end can not
be extracted from the left side, you remove the ride side axle shaft and
push it out from the right side?
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@h...]
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 12:08 PM
To: az_vjc; Stu Olson
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
Replacement is extremely easy - depending on where it's broken and assuming
you can get the splined end out. I keep a hardwood dowel with me, just in
case I have to punch it out from the other side.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
To: "az_vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 10:53 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
> For those of you who have blown a rear D44 axle shaft, what, if any,
> problems have you encountered while doing a trail fix on it (assuming you
> had a spare shaft to replace it with).
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
31936 From: <amstaff@e...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 2:39pm
Subject: Re: Last-minute trail run announcement, Sat. 9.29, White Tanks
Jim: Good meeting you as well. Assuming
you made it home OK with the drag link and
tie rod? Nice job straightening, by the way!
Nice driving; you'll be a terror when you
get some 4:1 gears in that t-case!
Dion
--- In az_vjc@y..., ldoctor1957@a...
wrote:
> I just want to say thanks to Blake, Dion, and Joe for a great run last night
> . Clayton and I had a ball ( even after the bent drag link and tie rod ) this
> trail was definatly a skill tester and you guys ( and your rigs ) are
> awesome, cant wait to run with you all again. Maybe we can hit the upper in
> the daytime.
> Thanks again
> Jim Lambertus
31937 From: Leonard K. Pennock <leonardpennock@h...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 3:23pm
Subject: Carb Flooding
Dennis,
I checked my book on Carter carbs and for offroad racing, which has some
of the same problems as rock climbing they recommend a Off road needle
set. This set uses a spring loaded needle to reduce the effects of
bouncing on fuel level.
Edelbrock sells them for their performer series carbs which is the same
as the old Carter AFB. It is part number #1465. You might look into
putting a set of these in your carb when you set the float level down.
I think between lowering your float level some and putting in this
needle set you can make a big improvment in your flooding problems.
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/carb_acces.html
--
Leonard K. Pennock
Those who walk bravely through life, unafraid of loss or failure,
find that they very rarely lose or fail.
31938 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 3:43pm
Subject: Re: D44 axle shaft replacement
Yup. Also - some strong wire to fish out the pieces is a good thing to have.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
To: "az_vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 2:42 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
> Doug....does this means if the left side broke, and the spline end can not
> be extracted from the left side, you remove the ride side axle shaft and
> push it out from the right side?
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@h...]
> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 12:08 PM
> To: az_vjc; Stu Olson
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
>
>
> Replacement is extremely easy - depending on where it's broken and
assuming
> you can get the splined end out. I keep a hardwood dowel with me, just in
> case I have to punch it out from the other side.
>
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
> To: "az_vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 10:53 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
>
>
> > For those of you who have blown a rear D44 axle shaft, what, if any,
> > problems have you encountered while doing a trail fix on it (assuming
you
> > had a spare shaft to replace it with).
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
31939 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 3:59pm
Subject: RE: D44 axle shaft replacement
Stu,
I read somewhere that you can tack weld welding rods together, insulate
them, then tack it to what's left of the axel shaft. The article I read
said they did this to remove about 2 or 3 inches of the spline from the
housing.
My guess would be that the trick is to use the insulator as a centering
tool as well. If you keep the rod in the center you should not have any
problem finding the left over axel.
Would be cool to find a bad axel an practice that maneuver.
Joey K
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 2:42 PM
> To: az_vjc
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
>
>
> Doug....does this means if the left side broke, and the
> spline end can not be extracted from the left side, you
> remove the ride side axle shaft and push it out from the right side?
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@h...]
> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 12:08 PM
> To: az_vjc; Stu Olson
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
>
>
> Replacement is extremely easy - depending on where it's
> broken and assuming you can get the splined end out. I keep a
> hardwood dowel with me, just in case I have to punch it out
> from the other side.
>
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
> To: "az_vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 10:53 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
>
>
> > For those of you who have blown a rear D44 axle shaft,
> what, if any,
> > problems have you encountered while doing a trail fix on it
> (assuming
> > you had a spare shaft to replace it with).
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo!
> Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
31940 From: <tporos@j...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 3:53pm
Subject: '01 Check Engine Light
The check engine light came on on Tara's jeep this morning. I did the
ignition key test, but didn't get any error codes. I checked the
obvious stuff like fluid levels, electrical connections etc, but
can't find anything. The jeep runs fine, nothing abnormal. Has this
happened to anyone else, and it turned out to be nothing or an easy
fix? I can only imagine how pissed I'm gonna be if I take it to the
dealer and they charge $35 to turn it off and say "nothing wrong, but
4wheeling is not covered by your warranty."
Thanks in advance.
Dan
31941 From: Steve Meyer <steve.j.meyer@h...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 4:03pm
Subject: ARCA Pics from Farmington.
A guy on POR posted a link to some good pics. Said he filmed a total of 23
roll-overs!
http://www.monsterslayer.com/jeep/ARCA3/Pics/ARCAPics.htm
--Steve
31942 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 4:53pm
Subject: RE: D44 axle shaft replacement
That is an interesting concept. I doubt I will be doing it, but none the
less, it is still a neat idea.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 3:59 PM
To: 'Stu Olson'; 'az_vjc'
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
Stu,
I read somewhere that you can tack weld welding rods together, insulate
them, then tack it to what's left of the axel shaft. The article I read
said they did this to remove about 2 or 3 inches of the spline from the
housing.
My guess would be that the trick is to use the insulator as a centering
tool as well. If you keep the rod in the center you should not have any
problem finding the left over axel.
Would be cool to find a bad axel an practice that maneuver.
Joey K
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 2:42 PM
> To: az_vjc
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
>
>
> Doug....does this means if the left side broke, and the
> spline end can not be extracted from the left side, you
> remove the ride side axle shaft and push it out from the right side?
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@h...]
> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 12:08 PM
> To: az_vjc; Stu Olson
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
>
>
> Replacement is extremely easy - depending on where it's
> broken and assuming you can get the splined end out. I keep a
> hardwood dowel with me, just in case I have to punch it out
> from the other side.
>
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
> To: "az_vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 10:53 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
>
>
> > For those of you who have blown a rear D44 axle shaft,
> what, if any,
> > problems have you encountered while doing a trail fix on it
> (assuming
> > you had a spare shaft to replace it with).
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo!
> Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
31943 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 4:49pm
Subject: [TR] Trip Report - Broken Arrow - Saturday, September 29, 2001
Hello All,
Keith Berkshire lead a trail run Saturday, September 29, 2001 across Broken Arrow
Well, even after the confusion about the date we still had 4 Jeeps and a 4-runner show up. We had a TJ(Bill), XJ(Brian), YJ(Scott) and a CJ7(Keith). I forgot the guys name in the 4-runner. We started off with Brian leading(since he was the only one who had done the trail before) at about 9:30 with 3 of us. We met a ton on Pink Jeeps along the way. A few of them were very rude and acted like they owned the trail. We stoped at a few spots to play around. After a little while Bill and the 4-runner showed up a little late becuase of some traffic. After we finished Broken arrow the group followed Scott to Soldiers pass and the "Seven Sacred Pools" and "Devils Kitchen". We finished up at about 2pm and headed our seperate ways. It was a great time in the cooler weather(still kind of hot up there). The trails were rather easy but fun and scenic.
Trip Attendees:
Keith Berkshire
Scott Kirby
Click Here to View Pictures (if available)
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
31944 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 5:24pm
Subject: [FS] Bestop CJ-7 2 pc Soft Doors
Price: 100.00 for the pair
Contact: Michael Wixom - 602-284-0738
Dark Tan Bestop 2 piece soft doors, good shape. Paddle handles, old style internal latch. Includes door strikers. Windows clear not yellowed, no holes. Zippers good. Weather stripping excellent.
Mike Wixom
31945 From: Randall A. Mutter <ramaz@h...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 5:54pm
Subject: RE: '01 Check Engine Light
Don't laugh but make sure your gas cap is on correctly. The new cars have a
sensor for that, happened on my wife's. It will take it a long drive to
clear the error (40 min. or > ). Luckily my service guy at Earnhardt's said
try this first and it worked.
Good luck.
RAM
Randall A. Mutter
ramaz@h... <mailto:ramaz@h...>
Thank goodness there are no 12 step programs for Jeeping...
-----Original Message-----
From: tporos@j... [mailto:tporos@j...]
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 3:54 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] '01 Check Engine Light
The check engine light came on on Tara's jeep this morning. I did the
ignition key test, but didn't get any error codes. I checked the
obvious stuff like fluid levels, electrical connections etc, but
can't find anything. The jeep runs fine, nothing abnormal. Has this
happened to anyone else, and it turned out to be nothing or an easy
fix? I can only imagine how pissed I'm gonna be if I take it to the
dealer and they charge $35 to turn it off and say "nothing wrong, but
4wheeling is not covered by your warranty."
Thanks in advance.
Dan
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
31946 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 5:58pm
Subject: Re: '01 Check Engine Light
Unless her Jeep is a 97, the ignition key test does not work. That test was
only on one year of TJs. After that, they have to be hooked up to a
diagnostic tool.
Chris K
> From: tporos@j...
> Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 22:53:59 -0000
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] '01 Check Engine Light
>
> The check engine light came on on Tara's jeep this morning. I did the
> ignition key test, but didn't get any error codes. I checked the
> obvious stuff like fluid levels, electrical connections etc, but
> can't find anything. The jeep runs fine, nothing abnormal. Has this
> happened to anyone else, and it turned out to be nothing or an easy
> fix? I can only imagine how pissed I'm gonna be if I take it to the
> dealer and they charge $35 to turn it off and say "nothing wrong, but
> 4wheeling is not covered by your warranty."
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Dan
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
31947 From: <jeeperaz@b...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 5:49pm
Subject: Re: ARCA Pics from Farmington.
Jaffer is my good bud.
If you are a CJ owner have a look at the rest of his page. Some good
tech articles.
Regards,
LarryM
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Steve Meyer" <steve.j.meyer@h...> wrote:
> A guy on POR posted a link to some good pics. Said he filmed a
total of 23
> roll-overs!
>
> http://www.monsterslayer.com/jeep/ARCA3/Pics/ARCAPics.htm
>
> --Steve
31948 From: Joe W <arizonajeep@h...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 6:09pm
Subject: RE: Re: Factory Side Step Follow Up.
Nope... they attach to the frame... don't know if there are any differences
in the way that they attach to the frame, but I highly doubt it.
Joe West
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@h...]
> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 5:27 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; James Towle
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Factory Side Step Follow Up.
>
>
> There are no frame differences in the TJ's (regardless of
> year). However, I
> believe the side steps attach to the tub (not the frame) and
> maybe those
> connection points changed.
>
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 2:47 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Factory Side Step Follow Up.
>
>
> >
> > I am still trying to figure out what was differnt in the frame
> > between a 2000+ & 1999-97. I don't remember anything
> sugnificant but,
> > I haven't really checked that close.
> > The factory replacement steps I made for mine (1999) fit on Dan S.'s
> > 2000 and were suppose to use the factory mounting spots although
> > somebody (Mike B.) decided to weld them on.
> >
> > --James
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., Jeep2Deep@c... wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Okay, I found a pair of the factory steps that I was looking for
> > earlier and
> > > after receiving 27 (count 'em 27) replies asking why I would want
> > crappy
> > > factory steps, the answer is that I don't, they were for a friend.
> > She has a
> > > 2001 that is strictly a pavement pounder (drive it to the beach,
> > take the top
> > > off once in a while, what's a locker?) Jeep. She doesn't go
> > offroad, care why
> > > a Dana 44 is better than a 35, never heard of Currie
> Enterprises or
> > even want
> > > a lift. I know, waste of a perfect Jeep. Just so everybody knows,
> > my factory
> > > steps were gone real quick and have been collecting dust in the
> > garage ever
> > > since but they won't fit a 2000 or later due to the frame change.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Joe Pollick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
31924 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Sat Sep 29, 2001 9:22pm
Subject: [TR] Trip Report - FR-42 - Saturday, September 29, 2001
Hello All,
Jon Loveless lead a trail run Saturday, September 29, 2001 across FR-42
We left the Bartlett Pay Station at about 8AM.Two of the 5 Jeeps were stock and I thought we might have to strap a couple but all went well. The only near "situation" was going down the steep hill about 1/2 way into FR42 Alan Parker in a 1980 CJ&; did a nose dive and a wheel stand. He teetered on a rollover but several folks ran to his aid and were able to weight the right rear bumper enough to get him back to earth. I have linked a photo of the higheswt point of his apex in Whoops.
The rest of the trip was uneventful but fun. We were done at noon as promised and headed home from there. As usual, this was a good bunch of Jeepers.
Jon
Trip Attendees:
Jon Loveless
Bradlee Clark
Rodney Neiman
Alan Parker
Chris Boettge
Click Here to View Pictures (if available)
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
31925 From: <jeeperaz@b...>
Date: Sat Sep 29, 2001 9:26pm
Subject: Re: [TR] Trip Report - FR-42 - Saturday, September 29, 2001
Holy Geez!
I can't believe he didnt roll it. Nice pic.
http://www.azvjc.org/Gallery/Whoops.asp?I=2219
31926 From: JoeKPhx <JoeKPhx@h...>
Date: Sat Sep 29, 2001 10:13pm
Subject: RE: Re: [TR] Trip Report - FR-42 - Saturday, September 29, 2001
WOW GREAT picture.
GOD BLESS AMERICA
Joe Kearney
Pager 877-655-4991
Have a good day
-----Original Message-----
From: jeeperaz@b... [mailto:jeeperaz@b...]
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 9:26 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: [TR] Trip Report - FR-42 - Saturday, September 29,
2001
Holy Geez!
I can't believe he didnt roll it. Nice pic.
http://www.azvjc.org/Gallery/Whoops.asp?I=2219
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
31927 From: <dt_horton@h...>
Date: Sat Sep 29, 2001 11:00pm
Subject: Re: [TR] Trip Report - FR-42 - Saturday, September 29, 2001
How did Alan manage to do that? Good to hear he had help. That
would have ruined his day.
Who cleaned the inside of the CJ?
;-)
Dan
31928 From: <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Sat Sep 29, 2001 11:16pm
Subject: Member Sighting
Saw a White TJ, with a Hunter Off Road sticker on the windshield, at
the AMC on Stapley and Baseline. My wife and I were on the way back
from seeing Rush Hour 2, and saw it parked in the lot. Who was that?
Mike Baney
31929 From: Brian Harmon <xjnation@h...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 6:46am
Subject: Re: Broken Arrow
Hey Bill,
It was a nice trip and Iwas glad to lead...anytime you all haved friends and
wanna trip to sedona here let me know! It was great to finaly meat you
all.....see you on the trails soon
Brian Harmon
88 XJ Laredo
http://www.cherokee-nation.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Bill Witt" <k7ant@t...>
To: "AZVJC" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [az_vjc] Broken Arrow
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 21:15:15 -0700
Thanks to all the folks we met on Broken Arrow today! One of the nicest days
four wheeling Diane and I have had in a long time. We were running late due
to a road construction project between the Rim and Camp Verde, but after the
first obstacle we ran into Brian and Keith playing in a hole. Ha Ha. Had
trouble all day keeping That trick XJ out of cracks. Lets do it again soon!
Bill and Diane W
PS Nice looking Jeeps Keith and Scott have!
Up on the Mogollon Rim in God and Four Wheeler's country.
__________________________________________________ _______________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
31930 From: Tom LaFrance <tlafrance@j...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 8:43am
Subject: Member sighting
Blockbuster, oops, I mean Cricket Pavilion last night at the MB20/Train
concert. Red XJ with a pre-runner bar and a front receiver D ring. I
was walking by to stand in the endless line and noticed the sticker on
your parked rig.
Heres a wave :)
Tom LaFrance
------------------------------------------------------------
"Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who don't"
31931 From: <ldoctor1957@a...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 6:40am
Subject: Re: Last-minute trail run announcement, Sat. 9.29, White Tanks
I just want to say thanks to Blake, Dion, and Joe for a great run last night . Clayton and I had a ball ( even after the bent drag link and tie rod ) this trail was definatly a skill tester and you guys ( and your rigs ) are awesome, cant wait to run with you all again. Maybe we can hit the upper in the daytime.
Thanks again
Jim Lambertus
31932 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 10:53am
Subject: D44 axle shaft replacement
For those of you who have blown a rear D44 axle shaft, what, if any,
problems have you encountered while doing a trail fix on it (assuming you
had a spare shaft to replace it with).
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
31933 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 11:57am
Subject: [FS] W: auto tranny rebuilder
Price:
Contact: (mark)- sickdog44@msn.com
hi, i need my 999 rebuilt/beefed(?).
i have a 904 and/or a d300
for trade/ partial trade.
cave creek area. any help
is appreciated....
mark
31934 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 0:07pm
Subject: Re: D44 axle shaft replacement
Replacement is extremely easy - depending on where it's broken and assuming
you can get the splined end out. I keep a hardwood dowel with me, just in
case I have to punch it out from the other side.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
To: "az_vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 10:53 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
> For those of you who have blown a rear D44 axle shaft, what, if any,
> problems have you encountered while doing a trail fix on it (assuming you
> had a spare shaft to replace it with).
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
31935 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 2:42pm
Subject: RE: D44 axle shaft replacement
Doug....does this means if the left side broke, and the spline end can not
be extracted from the left side, you remove the ride side axle shaft and
push it out from the right side?
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@h...]
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 12:08 PM
To: az_vjc; Stu Olson
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
Replacement is extremely easy - depending on where it's broken and assuming
you can get the splined end out. I keep a hardwood dowel with me, just in
case I have to punch it out from the other side.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
To: "az_vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 10:53 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
> For those of you who have blown a rear D44 axle shaft, what, if any,
> problems have you encountered while doing a trail fix on it (assuming you
> had a spare shaft to replace it with).
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
31936 From: <amstaff@e...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 2:39pm
Subject: Re: Last-minute trail run announcement, Sat. 9.29, White Tanks
Jim: Good meeting you as well. Assuming
you made it home OK with the drag link and
tie rod? Nice job straightening, by the way!
Nice driving; you'll be a terror when you
get some 4:1 gears in that t-case!
Dion
--- In az_vjc@y..., ldoctor1957@a...
wrote:
> I just want to say thanks to Blake, Dion, and Joe for a great run last night
> . Clayton and I had a ball ( even after the bent drag link and tie rod ) this
> trail was definatly a skill tester and you guys ( and your rigs ) are
> awesome, cant wait to run with you all again. Maybe we can hit the upper in
> the daytime.
> Thanks again
> Jim Lambertus
31937 From: Leonard K. Pennock <leonardpennock@h...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 3:23pm
Subject: Carb Flooding
Dennis,
I checked my book on Carter carbs and for offroad racing, which has some
of the same problems as rock climbing they recommend a Off road needle
set. This set uses a spring loaded needle to reduce the effects of
bouncing on fuel level.
Edelbrock sells them for their performer series carbs which is the same
as the old Carter AFB. It is part number #1465. You might look into
putting a set of these in your carb when you set the float level down.
I think between lowering your float level some and putting in this
needle set you can make a big improvment in your flooding problems.
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/carb_acces.html
--
Leonard K. Pennock
Those who walk bravely through life, unafraid of loss or failure,
find that they very rarely lose or fail.
31938 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 3:43pm
Subject: Re: D44 axle shaft replacement
Yup. Also - some strong wire to fish out the pieces is a good thing to have.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
To: "az_vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 2:42 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
> Doug....does this means if the left side broke, and the spline end can not
> be extracted from the left side, you remove the ride side axle shaft and
> push it out from the right side?
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@h...]
> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 12:08 PM
> To: az_vjc; Stu Olson
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
>
>
> Replacement is extremely easy - depending on where it's broken and
assuming
> you can get the splined end out. I keep a hardwood dowel with me, just in
> case I have to punch it out from the other side.
>
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
> To: "az_vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 10:53 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
>
>
> > For those of you who have blown a rear D44 axle shaft, what, if any,
> > problems have you encountered while doing a trail fix on it (assuming
you
> > had a spare shaft to replace it with).
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
31939 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 3:59pm
Subject: RE: D44 axle shaft replacement
Stu,
I read somewhere that you can tack weld welding rods together, insulate
them, then tack it to what's left of the axel shaft. The article I read
said they did this to remove about 2 or 3 inches of the spline from the
housing.
My guess would be that the trick is to use the insulator as a centering
tool as well. If you keep the rod in the center you should not have any
problem finding the left over axel.
Would be cool to find a bad axel an practice that maneuver.
Joey K
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 2:42 PM
> To: az_vjc
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
>
>
> Doug....does this means if the left side broke, and the
> spline end can not be extracted from the left side, you
> remove the ride side axle shaft and push it out from the right side?
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@h...]
> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 12:08 PM
> To: az_vjc; Stu Olson
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
>
>
> Replacement is extremely easy - depending on where it's
> broken and assuming you can get the splined end out. I keep a
> hardwood dowel with me, just in case I have to punch it out
> from the other side.
>
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
> To: "az_vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 10:53 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
>
>
> > For those of you who have blown a rear D44 axle shaft,
> what, if any,
> > problems have you encountered while doing a trail fix on it
> (assuming
> > you had a spare shaft to replace it with).
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo!
> Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
31940 From: <tporos@j...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 3:53pm
Subject: '01 Check Engine Light
The check engine light came on on Tara's jeep this morning. I did the
ignition key test, but didn't get any error codes. I checked the
obvious stuff like fluid levels, electrical connections etc, but
can't find anything. The jeep runs fine, nothing abnormal. Has this
happened to anyone else, and it turned out to be nothing or an easy
fix? I can only imagine how pissed I'm gonna be if I take it to the
dealer and they charge $35 to turn it off and say "nothing wrong, but
4wheeling is not covered by your warranty."
Thanks in advance.
Dan
31941 From: Steve Meyer <steve.j.meyer@h...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 4:03pm
Subject: ARCA Pics from Farmington.
A guy on POR posted a link to some good pics. Said he filmed a total of 23
roll-overs!
http://www.monsterslayer.com/jeep/ARCA3/Pics/ARCAPics.htm
--Steve
31942 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 4:53pm
Subject: RE: D44 axle shaft replacement
That is an interesting concept. I doubt I will be doing it, but none the
less, it is still a neat idea.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 3:59 PM
To: 'Stu Olson'; 'az_vjc'
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
Stu,
I read somewhere that you can tack weld welding rods together, insulate
them, then tack it to what's left of the axel shaft. The article I read
said they did this to remove about 2 or 3 inches of the spline from the
housing.
My guess would be that the trick is to use the insulator as a centering
tool as well. If you keep the rod in the center you should not have any
problem finding the left over axel.
Would be cool to find a bad axel an practice that maneuver.
Joey K
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 2:42 PM
> To: az_vjc
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
>
>
> Doug....does this means if the left side broke, and the
> spline end can not be extracted from the left side, you
> remove the ride side axle shaft and push it out from the right side?
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@h...]
> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 12:08 PM
> To: az_vjc; Stu Olson
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
>
>
> Replacement is extremely easy - depending on where it's
> broken and assuming you can get the splined end out. I keep a
> hardwood dowel with me, just in case I have to punch it out
> from the other side.
>
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
> To: "az_vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 10:53 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] D44 axle shaft replacement
>
>
> > For those of you who have blown a rear D44 axle shaft,
> what, if any,
> > problems have you encountered while doing a trail fix on it
> (assuming
> > you had a spare shaft to replace it with).
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo!
> Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
31943 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 4:49pm
Subject: [TR] Trip Report - Broken Arrow - Saturday, September 29, 2001
Hello All,
Keith Berkshire lead a trail run Saturday, September 29, 2001 across Broken Arrow
Well, even after the confusion about the date we still had 4 Jeeps and a 4-runner show up. We had a TJ(Bill), XJ(Brian), YJ(Scott) and a CJ7(Keith). I forgot the guys name in the 4-runner. We started off with Brian leading(since he was the only one who had done the trail before) at about 9:30 with 3 of us. We met a ton on Pink Jeeps along the way. A few of them were very rude and acted like they owned the trail. We stoped at a few spots to play around. After a little while Bill and the 4-runner showed up a little late becuase of some traffic. After we finished Broken arrow the group followed Scott to Soldiers pass and the "Seven Sacred Pools" and "Devils Kitchen". We finished up at about 2pm and headed our seperate ways. It was a great time in the cooler weather(still kind of hot up there). The trails were rather easy but fun and scenic.
Trip Attendees:
Keith Berkshire
Scott Kirby
Click Here to View Pictures (if available)
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
31944 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 5:24pm
Subject: [FS] Bestop CJ-7 2 pc Soft Doors
Price: 100.00 for the pair
Contact: Michael Wixom - 602-284-0738
Dark Tan Bestop 2 piece soft doors, good shape. Paddle handles, old style internal latch. Includes door strikers. Windows clear not yellowed, no holes. Zippers good. Weather stripping excellent.
Mike Wixom
31945 From: Randall A. Mutter <ramaz@h...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 5:54pm
Subject: RE: '01 Check Engine Light
Don't laugh but make sure your gas cap is on correctly. The new cars have a
sensor for that, happened on my wife's. It will take it a long drive to
clear the error (40 min. or > ). Luckily my service guy at Earnhardt's said
try this first and it worked.
Good luck.
RAM
Randall A. Mutter
ramaz@h... <mailto:ramaz@h...>
Thank goodness there are no 12 step programs for Jeeping...
-----Original Message-----
From: tporos@j... [mailto:tporos@j...]
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 3:54 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] '01 Check Engine Light
The check engine light came on on Tara's jeep this morning. I did the
ignition key test, but didn't get any error codes. I checked the
obvious stuff like fluid levels, electrical connections etc, but
can't find anything. The jeep runs fine, nothing abnormal. Has this
happened to anyone else, and it turned out to be nothing or an easy
fix? I can only imagine how pissed I'm gonna be if I take it to the
dealer and they charge $35 to turn it off and say "nothing wrong, but
4wheeling is not covered by your warranty."
Thanks in advance.
Dan
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
31946 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 5:58pm
Subject: Re: '01 Check Engine Light
Unless her Jeep is a 97, the ignition key test does not work. That test was
only on one year of TJs. After that, they have to be hooked up to a
diagnostic tool.
Chris K
> From: tporos@j...
> Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 22:53:59 -0000
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] '01 Check Engine Light
>
> The check engine light came on on Tara's jeep this morning. I did the
> ignition key test, but didn't get any error codes. I checked the
> obvious stuff like fluid levels, electrical connections etc, but
> can't find anything. The jeep runs fine, nothing abnormal. Has this
> happened to anyone else, and it turned out to be nothing or an easy
> fix? I can only imagine how pissed I'm gonna be if I take it to the
> dealer and they charge $35 to turn it off and say "nothing wrong, but
> 4wheeling is not covered by your warranty."
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Dan
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
31947 From: <jeeperaz@b...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 5:49pm
Subject: Re: ARCA Pics from Farmington.
Jaffer is my good bud.
If you are a CJ owner have a look at the rest of his page. Some good
tech articles.
Regards,
LarryM
--- In az_vjc@y..., "Steve Meyer" <steve.j.meyer@h...> wrote:
> A guy on POR posted a link to some good pics. Said he filmed a
total of 23
> roll-overs!
>
> http://www.monsterslayer.com/jeep/ARCA3/Pics/ARCAPics.htm
>
> --Steve
31948 From: Joe W <arizonajeep@h...>
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2001 6:09pm
Subject: RE: Re: Factory Side Step Follow Up.
Nope... they attach to the frame... don't know if there are any differences
in the way that they attach to the frame, but I highly doubt it.
Joe West
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@h...]
> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 5:27 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; James Towle
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Factory Side Step Follow Up.
>
>
> There are no frame differences in the TJ's (regardless of
> year). However, I
> believe the side steps attach to the tub (not the frame) and
> maybe those
> connection points changed.
>
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 2:47 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Factory Side Step Follow Up.
>
>
> >
> > I am still trying to figure out what was differnt in the frame
> > between a 2000+ & 1999-97. I don't remember anything
> sugnificant but,
> > I haven't really checked that close.
> > The factory replacement steps I made for mine (1999) fit on Dan S.'s
> > 2000 and were suppose to use the factory mounting spots although
> > somebody (Mike B.) decided to weld them on.
> >
> > --James
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@y..., Jeep2Deep@c... wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Okay, I found a pair of the factory steps that I was looking for
> > earlier and
> > > after receiving 27 (count 'em 27) replies asking why I would want
> > crappy
> > > factory steps, the answer is that I don't, they were for a friend.
> > She has a
> > > 2001 that is strictly a pavement pounder (drive it to the beach,
> > take the top
> > > off once in a while, what's a locker?) Jeep. She doesn't go
> > offroad, care why
> > > a Dana 44 is better than a 35, never heard of Currie
> Enterprises or
> > even want
> > > a lift. I know, waste of a perfect Jeep. Just so everybody knows,
> > my factory
> > > steps were gone real quick and have been collecting dust in the
> > garage ever
> > > since but they won't fit a 2000 or later due to the frame change.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Joe Pollick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>