blooddrive
01-03-2004, 08:01 PM
30317-30341
30317 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 0:28pm
Subject: RE: OHV Park
Even if you could overcome the liability, etc. obstacles, I seriously doubt
you could get it past the air quality issue (ie.., the dust). They closed
the Aqua Fria river bed on the west side of Phoenix a year or so back.
Maricopa County's dust regulations were all it took to close that area down.
I know this for a fact because I attended the land use meeting right after
it happend, hosted by the county/city folks.....the dust sniffing folks were
there from the county and recited chapter and verse the rules that made it
happen. Also in attendance were the BLM, State Trust, Forest Service, etc.
type of folks, who were also quite interested in this whole issue.
So....to open up an area that is guaranteed to crate tons of dust....I hate
to say it, but dream on. Maricopa County will NOT risk its state and
federal funding $$ because someone wants to go off-roading in the middle of
town, IMO.
Of course, I could be completely wrong.
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: lynch [mailto:lynch@v...]
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:22 AM
To: Scott Legge
Cc: AZ_VJC; James Towle
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] OHV Park
Hence the idea of running somewhere in the river corridor.. Sky
Harbor uses that as a traffic area (when they're not buzzing
Tempe and North Mesa with 747's! :) so noise is perhaps not as big
of a factor.
Liability is a definite concern, but I'd think if cities can run skate
parks where 12 year olds catch air on skateboards, an OHV park with lotsa
rocks and twisty stuff shouldn't be much different. Some sort of rules
regarding spotting and pedestrians not trafficking the vehicle areas
are probably necessary. Does anyone know what places like Cinder Hills
do? Are there liability release forms and such?
Being a resident for only a year, I don't know what flooding issues
exist for that area either.. and with our 'monsoon' storms in the summer,
such things would need to be carefully analyzed. An OHV park would go under
quickly if a bunch of newbies with stock vehicles got flooded out and
then sued or whatever.
-lynch
On Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 11:01:28PM -0700, Scott Legge wrote:
> unstuck. Quite an eventful sat morning :) They should open one up in town
> except noise and pollution would have people freaking out much less the
> LIABILITY!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...>
> To: "AZ_VJC" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 5:20 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] OHV Park
>
>
> >
> > This is just an idea, and maybe a stupid one.
> >
> > As I was driving along the 202 east today, I was remembering being able
to
> > run through the river bottom. I noticed further that there are some
stair
> > steps in the river bottom just west of McClintock.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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30318 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 0:19pm
Subject: Re: Cherokee Question
Sneeches
> From: Mike@A...
> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:10:50 -0000
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Fw: [az_vjc] Cherokee Question
>
> Never said I wasn't a "geek" ... I'm just not a UNIX geek. :)
>
> Why does this remind me of the Dr. Sueus book about the creatures
> with and without stars?
>
> - Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., Blake Van de Loo <blake@m...> wrote:
>> Maybe you really are a Geek. Just in denial. ;-)
>>
>> Blake
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
30319 From: Baja Fleg <fleigle@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 0:22pm
Subject: RE: OHV Park
I'm just wondering what kind of funding an OHV park would need? The initial
construction might have a small cost from it but wouldn't there be enough
voluteers and donations so offset any cost.
Fleg
----Original Message Follows----
I would think it would be the county board of supervisors. The proposal for
the reconstruction through the Phoenix area was supposed to be funded by a
county tax.
I think some type of formal writing of this would need to be drawn up.
__________________________________________________ _______________
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30320 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 0:25pm
Subject: RE: Fw: Cherokee Question
Hey!
I'm a UNIX geek... what's wrong with UNIX geeks?
<grin>
Joe West
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike@A... [mailto:Mike@A...]
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:11 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Fw: [az_vjc] Cherokee Question
>
>
> Never said I wasn't a "geek" ... I'm just not a UNIX geek. :)
>
> Why does this remind me of the Dr. Sueus book about the creatures
> with and without stars?
>
> - Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., Blake Van de Loo <blake@m...> wrote:
> > Maybe you really are a Geek. Just in denial. ;-)
> >
> > Blake
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
30321 From: <Kilr650@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 8:48am
Subject: Re: OHV Park
I have not been to the off road park here in Tucson but I do know you need
to buy a membership and also pay each time you visit. A friend of mine who
rides dirt bikes went there and said it was not worth it in his opinion. He
said the fees were supposed to help maintain the track/trail, including water
for dust control, but he didin't see it.
Eddie
Tucson
30322 From: Kevin Fell <kwfell@y...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 0:59pm
Subject: Axle swap gurus: please check in...
Hi all:
In my endeavor to leave NOTHING stock on my ZJ, I have a question about the
d44 axles of the "narrow" and "wide" track axles from the FSJ Cherokees and
Wagoners. If anyone can help me in my quest, I'd be greatly
appreciative!!! The outcome is to have d44s or better front and rear in my
ZJ with the least amount of money spent.
o What is the width of each from flange to flange?
o Which models/years is it with the pumpkin on the drivers' side? Is it
correct that the manual and auto were different sides?
o How hard would it be to adapt to rear disk brakes?
o Are there certain trailering packages available in those years that
offered a MORE heavy duty axle tube, knuckle or shaft?
o Which of these used automatic and which used manual hubs? Can manual
hubs be swapped into the automatic hub style?
Ok, bonus question: How much wider is say a full-size truck axle from a 1/2
ton Ford p/u? Would you say they would be stronger than d44s?
Lastly, are there any good links you can throw me for axle swaps and such?
I need to do some reading before I tackle this project!
Thank you all for your assistance.
KevinF
'93 ZJ
Just one mod...EVERYTHING!
__________________________________________________ _______
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
30323 From: <msa12171@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 1:11pm
Subject: FS: 63 Scout w/extras
It has Dana 20s and 4 cyl, good body. He has 2 spare axles, they are
Ford 9" axles, and one is with disc brakes. I know one has a 3rd
member but don't know about the other one. Don't know much more but
he wants $1000 for all. Call him at 623-587-8277, his name is Rick.
Mike Anderson
30324 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 1:15pm
Subject: Re: OHV Park
Well, you all got me going now. Am I the only one who thinks it's
retarded to waste water to keep dust down? We live in a frickin'
desert. It's naturally dusty here - deal with it. It's also
naturally short on water. This makes no sense to me. And it really
infuriates me when they water down a construction zone to keep the
dust down. Not only do the waste that water, but the people whose
cars get muddy driving through the construction zone end up having
to wash their cars which wastes even more water.
And what makes people think they can buy homes next to the desert's
edge and then get upset about dust?
It also doesn't make any sense that the feds give our state money
to keep dust down. It seems to me they should be giving us money
to reduce all the other pollutants. Getting paid to keep the dust
down seems like just a token gesture. Bogus!
-Roger
30325 From: James Junkin <jjunkin@p...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 1:33pm
Subject: Re: Axle swap gurus: please check in...
I'll try to answer with what I know
Front:
FSJ's had front Dana 44's for about the entire 40 year run (at least '70s to
'92)
Which side the diff is on depends on the Tcase not the tranny. Quadratrac
TC's have a passenger side drop and offset rear diff too.
I think all NP TC's have a drivers side drop.
FSJ's came in narrow track, wide track and J Trucks are even wider. A
narrow track front D44 is about 60" rotor face to rotor face. I have one in
my garage if you need additional measurements. It's going under a TJ.
Manual hubs can be swapped out for automatic. The only years to avoid is
around 82-84 when they had a wierd vacuum disconnect in the diff housing.
Rear:
Early (70's) and late model SJ's (87-92) had rear Dana 44's. In between,
they used a one piece AMC 20 which is actually pretty stout.
3/4 ton J trucks had Dana 60's in the rear and 8 lug Dana 44's on the front.
I have a J20 D60 which I am putting under the rear of the TJ
I can get more details if you need 'em. I've been researching about a year.
James Junkin
O | | | | | O
'81 SJ Cherokee "Midnight"
'97 TJ "Tar Baby"
'98 TJ "Crimson Ride"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Fell" <kwfell@y...>
To: "AZVJC List" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 1:59 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Axle swap gurus: please check in...
> Hi all:
>
> In my endeavor to leave NOTHING stock on my ZJ, I have a question about
the
> d44 axles of the "narrow" and "wide" track axles from the FSJ Cherokees
and
> Wagoners. If anyone can help me in my quest, I'd be greatly
> appreciative!!! The outcome is to have d44s or better front and rear in
my
> ZJ with the least amount of money spent.
>
> o What is the width of each from flange to flange?
> o Which models/years is it with the pumpkin on the drivers' side? Is it
> correct that the manual and auto were different sides?
> o How hard would it be to adapt to rear disk brakes?
> o Are there certain trailering packages available in those years that
> offered a MORE heavy duty axle tube, knuckle or shaft?
> o Which of these used automatic and which used manual hubs? Can manual
> hubs be swapped into the automatic hub style?
>
> Ok, bonus question: How much wider is say a full-size truck axle from a
1/2
> ton Ford p/u? Would you say they would be stronger than d44s?
>
> Lastly, are there any good links you can throw me for axle swaps and such?
> I need to do some reading before I tackle this project!
>
> Thank you all for your assistance.
>
> KevinF
> '93 ZJ
> Just one mod...EVERYTHING!
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______
>
> Do You Yahoo!?
>
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
30326 From: Scott Legge <scottlegge@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 1:33pm
Subject: Re: Fw: Cherokee Question HELP ME!!! PLEASE!!! DESPERATE
I NEED UNIX HELP!!! Someone please try to telnet to 24.16.129.14 and tell me
whats going on. I am assuming its a login and pass hunter running ontop of
my real login script? After telnet is up if you ctrl+c it kills the
ssession. WTF CAN SOMEONE HELP!!!
Scott Legge
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Tomas" <tomasr@a...>
To: "gandre01" <gandre01@m...>
Cc: "azvjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [az_vjc] Cherokee Question
> George,
>
> You are a true UNIX geek (like me). ;-) You posted your picture
> in uuencoded format. Only other UNIX geeks will figure out how to
> display it.
>
> -Roger
>
>
> gandre01 wrote:
> >
> > I have attached a picture of it with Len Sullivan's J10 P/U truck. I
have
> > since added several accessories including lights. I should have pictures
> > available this weekend to post.
> >
> > George Andrews
> > '83 Cherokee WT, 454TBI, TH400, QT, D44s, 35x12.50s, ARBs
> > '00 TJ
> > Avondale Arizona
> >
> >
> > begin 666 Bo2&grn1.jpg
> > <snip>
> > end
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
30327 From: Damon Gentile <dgentile@s...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 1:04pm
Subject: Re: Axle swap gurus: please check in...
Kevin Fell wrote:
>
> Hi all:
>
> In my endeavor to leave NOTHING stock on my ZJ, I have a question about the
> d44 axles of the "narrow" and "wide" track axles from the FSJ Cherokees and
> Wagoners. If anyone can help me in my quest, I'd be greatly
> appreciative!!! The outcome is to have d44s or better front and rear in my
> ZJ with the least amount of money spent.
>
> o What is the width of each from flange to flange?
Should be within 1" from stock ZJ, don't have the measurement handy.
> o Which models/years is it with the pumpkin on the drivers' side? Is it
> correct that the manual and auto were different sides?
All the NP t-cases drop on the left hand side.
> o How hard would it be to adapt to rear disk brakes?
Typical homebrew 44, not very difficult if you have the mindset. Asking
the question probably means you wont have a problem.
> o Are there certain trailering packages available in those years that
> offered a MORE heavy duty axle tube, knuckle or shaft?
Well some FSJs had M20 rears, others had M44s. Personal preference
there.
Beyond that nothing really varied aside from ring & pinion ratios. 2.72s
are ultra common. 3.07s can be had with a lot of digging. MAYBE find
3.55s
behind a 6 cyl.
> o Which of these used automatic and which used manual hubs? Can manual
> hubs be swapped into the automatic hub style?
I think all of the SJs I've seen used NO hubs, just a drive flange.
Simply
unbolt the drive flange and swap in a 6-bolt external hub. Same bolt
pattern.
>
> Ok, bonus question: How much wider is say a full-size truck axle from a 1/2
> ton Ford p/u? Would you say they would be stronger than d44s?
Yes wider. Stronger ?? Depends on the year. 44 front end would be a pain
to
trim the coil brackets and radius arm stuff from. (like get a waggy
front end!)
rear - 9".
HTH,
-d
>
> Lastly, are there any good links you can throw me for axle swaps and such?
> I need to do some reading before I tackle this project!
>
> Thank you all for your assistance.
>
> KevinF
> '93 ZJ
> Just one mod...EVERYTHING!
>
> __________________________________________________ _______
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
30328 From: Eric Herring <herring@q...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 1:42pm
Subject: RE: OHV Park
I agree 100%. Every time I hear someone complain about the dust I ask why
they moved to the desert.
Eric Herring 92XJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Tomas [mailto:tomasr@a...]
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 1:16 PM
To: AZ_VJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] OHV Park
Well, you all got me going now. Am I the only one who thinks it's
retarded to waste water to keep dust down? We live in a frickin'
desert. It's naturally dusty here - deal with it. It's also
naturally short on water. This makes no sense to me. And it really
infuriates me when they water down a construction zone to keep the
dust down. Not only do the waste that water, but the people whose
cars get muddy driving through the construction zone end up having
to wash their cars which wastes even more water.
And what makes people think they can buy homes next to the desert's
edge and then get upset about dust?
It also doesn't make any sense that the feds give our state money
to keep dust down. It seems to me they should be giving us money
to reduce all the other pollutants. Getting paid to keep the dust
down seems like just a token gesture. Bogus!
-Roger
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
30329 From: DesertJeep <joey@j...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 1:39pm
Subject: RE: OHV Park
There are other things in the river bottoms that create dust regularly
every day. They should look at those operations too.
Joey K
93YJ
www.desertjeep.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:29 PM
> Cc: AZ_VJC
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] OHV Park
>
>
> Even if you could overcome the liability, etc. obstacles, I
> seriously doubt you could get it past the air quality issue
> (ie.., the dust). They closed the Aqua Fria river bed on the
> west side of Phoenix a year or so back. Maricopa County's
> dust regulations were all it took to close that area down. I
> know this for a fact because I attended the land use meeting
> right after it happend, hosted by the county/city
> folks.....the dust sniffing folks were there from the county
> and recited chapter and verse the rules that made it happen.
> Also in attendance were the BLM, State Trust, Forest Service,
> etc. type of folks, who were also quite interested in this
> whole issue.
>
> So....to open up an area that is guaranteed to crate tons of
> dust....I hate to say it, but dream on. Maricopa County will
> NOT risk its state and federal funding $$ because someone
> wants to go off-roading in the middle of town, IMO.
>
> Of course, I could be completely wrong.
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lynch [mailto:lynch@v...]
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:22 AM
> To: Scott Legge
> Cc: AZ_VJC; James Towle
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] OHV Park
>
>
> Hence the idea of running somewhere in the river corridor..
> Sky Harbor uses that as a traffic area (when they're not
> buzzing Tempe and North Mesa with 747's! :) so noise is
> perhaps not as big of a factor.
>
> Liability is a definite concern, but I'd think if cities can
> run skate parks where 12 year olds catch air on skateboards,
> an OHV park with lotsa rocks and twisty stuff shouldn't be
> much different. Some sort of rules regarding spotting and
> pedestrians not trafficking the vehicle areas are probably
> necessary. Does anyone know what places like Cinder Hills do?
> Are there liability release forms and such?
>
> Being a resident for only a year, I don't know what flooding
> issues exist for that area either.. and with our 'monsoon'
> storms in the summer, such things would need to be carefully
> analyzed. An OHV park would go under quickly if a bunch of
> newbies with stock vehicles got flooded out and then sued or whatever.
>
> -lynch
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 11:01:28PM -0700, Scott Legge wrote:
> > unstuck. Quite an eventful sat morning :) They should open
> one up in
> > town except noise and pollution would have people freaking out much
> > less the LIABILITY!
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...>
> > To: "AZ_VJC" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 5:20 PM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] OHV Park
> >
> >
> > >
> > > This is just an idea, and maybe a stupid one.
> > >
> > > As I was driving along the 202 east today, I was
> remembering being
> > > able
> to
> > > run through the river bottom. I noticed further that
> there are some
> stair
> > > steps in the river bottom just west of McClintock.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo!
> Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
30330 From: Scott Legge <scottlegge@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 2:01pm
Subject: Re: Fw: Cherokee Question HELP ME!!! PLEASE!!! DESPERATE
I know thats what its doing to me too... fawk man my root password is xdm123
if you can get it to work let me know! That password ok is a dead
giveaway... You can ctrl+c it and the login process dies. YOU CANT ctrl+c
the REAL login process plus after login ok you can see the password you
type... MY username is (scott) pass (72scout2) if you can get in w/ that
(you have su privilidges) if you know what you are doing fix it ?:) I am
stumped on this one! I cant even get to a command prompt to do ANYTHING! It
runs as my router behind a cable connection so the router procs start and I
have a connection... Any help from anyone would be great... NEEDLESS TO SAY
all passwords will be changed when it is all fixed...
Scott Legge
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Tomas" <tomasr@a...>
To: "Scott Legge" <scottlegge@h...>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [az_vjc] Cherokee Question HELP ME!!! PLEASE!!! DESPERATE
> Scott Legge wrote:
> Scott,
>
> Remember, I called myself a UNIX geek - not a UNIX guru! ;-)
>
> Anyway, I tried telneting the the IP address you gave. It prompted me
> with "Ok, Password:" which made it seem like it assumed a login id and
> skipped prompting for that. I couldn't tell you what it's really doing.
>
> -Roger
>
> >
> > I NEED UNIX HELP!!! Someone please try to telnet to 24.16.129.14 and
tell me
> > whats going on. I am assuming its a login and pass hunter running ontop
of
> > my real login script? After telnet is up if you ctrl+c it kills the
> > ssession. WTF CAN SOMEONE HELP!!!
30331 From: Brian Pavlich <brian.pavlich@i...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 2:18pm
Subject: RE: OHV Park : Dust Concerns
DRY. Dusty. Dusty. dusty ..
Many years ago there was a public service announcement that talked about Valley Fever. I havent seen that ad in many years, but I doubt that the situation is much different today. I think that concerns around dust are due to this menace that lives in our soil.
Please see this link for more info:
http://www.astdhpphe.org/infect/valley.html
Some of you may have it from wheeling in dusty areas and dont even know it..
- Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Tomas [mailto:tomasr@agcs.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 1:16 PM
To: AZ_VJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] OHV Park
Well, you all got me going now. Am I the only one who thinks it's
retarded to waste water to keep dust down? We live in a frickin'
desert. It's naturally dusty here - deal with it. It's also
naturally short on water. This makes no sense to me. And it really
infuriates me when they water down a construction zone to keep the
dust down. Not only do the waste that water, but the people whose
cars get muddy driving through the construction zone end up having
to wash their cars which wastes even more water.
And what makes people think they can buy homes next to the desert's
edge and then get upset about dust?
It also doesn't make any sense that the feds give our state money
to keep dust down. It seems to me they should be giving us money
to reduce all the other pollutants. Getting paid to keep the dust
down seems like just a token gesture. Bogus!
-Roger
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
30332 From: <ehsankiani@y...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 2:27pm
Subject: RHD conversion pics in new gallery
Hello,
I just added another gallery to the IJC hompage in the gallery
section at
http://ijc.8m.com
Do chec it out and tell me what you think..It has pics of the
right hand drive conversion I did on my 1979 Jeep Cherokee.
Thanx
Ehsan
30333 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 2:38pm
Subject: [TR] Charouleau Gap - Saturday, September 1, 2001
Hello All,
steve sample is leading a Charouleau Gap trail run on Saturday, September 1, 2001.
When: 8:00 am start
Where: trailhead in catalina
Rating: 4.0-
Length: 7 hrs
CB Channel: 4
just did the trail last sat with 3 others. eddie had no lift TJ with locked F&R; but bottomed out couple times. recommend lift and rear locker but not mandatory. on hwy 89 in catalina head east on golder ranch dr at the texaco sta. go about 1.25 mi to lago del oro parkway just before bridge. go north on lago del oro maybe a couple miles. the trail head is right on the east side of lago del oro with a state billboard/check-in register.
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
30334 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 2:49pm
Subject: [FS] Tow Hitch For Wrangler 87-95
Price: $125.00 obo
Contact: Jason Merrill
I have a tow hitch for 87-95 wranglers I have it on my 90 wrangler and used it to pull teh stuck Fords, Chevys, Nissans and Toys out of the Mud. well I have it for sale and if anyone is intreseted call me at
602-722-9391 Price is neg....
Jason Merrill
30335 From: Baja Fleg <fleigle@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 3:32pm
Subject: RE: OHV Park : Dust Concerns
Well give me some "fungus-killing medicines" and lets build the OHV area. I
must admit thats the first time I've ever heard a reason for keeping dust
levels down. I only fit into most of the categories that have a high risk
for this Valley Fever.
Fleg
----Original Message Follows----
DRY. Dusty. Dusty. dusty ..
Many years ago there was a public service announcement that talked about
Valley Fever. I havent seen that ad in many years, but I doubt that the
situation is much different today. I think that concerns around dust are due
to this menace that lives in our soil.
Please see this link for more info:
http://www.astdhpphe.org/infect/valley.html
Some of you may have it from wheeling in dusty areas and dont even know it..
- Brian
__________________________________________________ _______________
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30336 From: <adg02@p...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 5:17pm
Subject: jeep for sale
1987 Jeep YJ Wrangler for sale:
2.5 Liter 4 cyl,189K, 5 Spd, NP231, Dana 35&30,4.10 ratio, Warn
8274 winch,add-a-leaf,235x15 Desert Dogs, Hard top & full doors,
Folding rear seat. $4500 located 67 Av/Camelback area.
Email adg02@p...
30337 From: Shawn and Michelle <smpassmore@e...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 5:35pm
Subject: Re: Re: Trail Information
I have to admit that I only thought about joining the "club" because of all
the technical advice given and the open sharing of the trails. In fact I did
a search on Saguaro coves and came across the clean-up article, That was a
major part of why I joined the club..
I say let it stay how it is..
my $.02
Shawn
jeepcj5nut
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Tomas" <tomasr@a...>
To: "Brent Lizakowski" <brent_lizakowski@h...>
Cc: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Trail Information
> I agree with Brent on this issue. Hiding information is not a very
> effective approach. Since we advocate education on responsible land
> use as opposed to land closures, we should practice what we preach.
> Let's wrap a bunch of responsible land use and Tread Lightly stuff
> around the trail info and then encourage others to come to our website
> for this information. After all, it's "those others" that need to be
> reached and educated.
>
> -Roger
>
> Brent Lizakowski wrote:
> > Maybe we should hide the info to non-members and make them go through
> > a series of pages that describe good wheeling practices (pack in/out
> > your trash, TREAD lightly, etc.)? Once they get the gospel, then they
> > can sign up and have the trail info.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
30338 From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 5:26pm
Subject: Re: Re: OHV Park
A lot of the river bottom is Arizona State Trust Land. The Scottsdale
Hummer and Land Rover dealers used to have a "test track" in the Salt
River river bottom near ASU.
Linda
Baja Fleg wrote:
>
> You gotta wonder if anyone actually reads that. So what are we going to
> say? Can anyone here be a little creative and write a half way intelegent
> email about this? I don't think an email that says Hey we want to wheel in
> the riverbed would get much of a response.
>
> Fleg
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> How about this:
>
> http://www.ci.phoenix.az.us/EMAIL/emsr.html
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Baja Fleg" <fleigle@h...> wrote:
> > Good luck getting this one past the greenies. We all know it is
> > just a dried up riverbed with no use but to turn it into an OHV
> > area but the greens would come up with something. Who would we
> > need to get in contact with to see if it did have a chance?
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
30339 From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 5:28pm
Subject: Re: OHV Park
Ask the TRR4WDC in Tucson what it took to get the Pima Motorsports Park
built. It took several years and a lot of volunteer hours. You gotta be
committed to this type of project.
Linda
Baja Fleg wrote:
>
> I'm just wondering what kind of funding an OHV park would need? The initial
> construction might have a small cost from it but wouldn't there be enough
> voluteers and donations so offset any cost.
>
> Fleg
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
>
> I would think it would be the county board of supervisors. The proposal for
> the reconstruction through the Phoenix area was supposed to be funded by a
> county tax.
> I think some type of formal writing of this would need to be drawn up.
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
30340 From: <dkober@g...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 5:44pm
Subject: Aug. 4th Anniversary Run Pictures
I was wondering if anyone has posted pictures from the AZVJC CK run.
I was in the group led by Doug Ballard.
30341 From: James Towle <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 5:46pm
Subject: Re: OHV Park
I will try to contact the City of Phoenix, Maricopa County & the
State within the next couple of weeks to see if I can get anywhere.
The dust factor will be a problem although, in some respects it can't
be any worse than some of the quaries being run in the Phoenix part
of the river. One thing that didn't make me think about dust is,
there is no dust when you crawl over rocks. But, in order to make
this park useful to others the dust would have to be addressed.
Along other notes, I moved to Tempe in 1968. The river was fair game
back then, not only for off roaders but for garbage dumpers and
hunting (birds). If we could show them that off roaders can be
concerned for the enviroment, e.g., Cove Cleanup, maybe we would
have "a leg up."
--James
--- In az_vjc@y..., linda luik <minihummer@w...> wrote:
> A lot of the river bottom is Arizona State Trust Land. The
Scottsdale
> Hummer and Land Rover dealers used to have a "test track" in the
Salt
> River river bottom near ASU.
>
> Linda
>
> Baja Fleg wrote:
> >
> > You gotta wonder if anyone actually reads that. So what are we
going to
> > say? Can anyone here be a little creative and write a half way
intelegent
> > email about this? I don't think an email that says Hey we want
to wheel in
> > the riverbed would get much of a response.
> >
> > Fleg
> >
30317 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 0:28pm
Subject: RE: OHV Park
Even if you could overcome the liability, etc. obstacles, I seriously doubt
you could get it past the air quality issue (ie.., the dust). They closed
the Aqua Fria river bed on the west side of Phoenix a year or so back.
Maricopa County's dust regulations were all it took to close that area down.
I know this for a fact because I attended the land use meeting right after
it happend, hosted by the county/city folks.....the dust sniffing folks were
there from the county and recited chapter and verse the rules that made it
happen. Also in attendance were the BLM, State Trust, Forest Service, etc.
type of folks, who were also quite interested in this whole issue.
So....to open up an area that is guaranteed to crate tons of dust....I hate
to say it, but dream on. Maricopa County will NOT risk its state and
federal funding $$ because someone wants to go off-roading in the middle of
town, IMO.
Of course, I could be completely wrong.
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: lynch [mailto:lynch@v...]
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:22 AM
To: Scott Legge
Cc: AZ_VJC; James Towle
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] OHV Park
Hence the idea of running somewhere in the river corridor.. Sky
Harbor uses that as a traffic area (when they're not buzzing
Tempe and North Mesa with 747's! :) so noise is perhaps not as big
of a factor.
Liability is a definite concern, but I'd think if cities can run skate
parks where 12 year olds catch air on skateboards, an OHV park with lotsa
rocks and twisty stuff shouldn't be much different. Some sort of rules
regarding spotting and pedestrians not trafficking the vehicle areas
are probably necessary. Does anyone know what places like Cinder Hills
do? Are there liability release forms and such?
Being a resident for only a year, I don't know what flooding issues
exist for that area either.. and with our 'monsoon' storms in the summer,
such things would need to be carefully analyzed. An OHV park would go under
quickly if a bunch of newbies with stock vehicles got flooded out and
then sued or whatever.
-lynch
On Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 11:01:28PM -0700, Scott Legge wrote:
> unstuck. Quite an eventful sat morning :) They should open one up in town
> except noise and pollution would have people freaking out much less the
> LIABILITY!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...>
> To: "AZ_VJC" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 5:20 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] OHV Park
>
>
> >
> > This is just an idea, and maybe a stupid one.
> >
> > As I was driving along the 202 east today, I was remembering being able
to
> > run through the river bottom. I noticed further that there are some
stair
> > steps in the river bottom just west of McClintock.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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30318 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 0:19pm
Subject: Re: Cherokee Question
Sneeches
> From: Mike@A...
> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:10:50 -0000
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Fw: [az_vjc] Cherokee Question
>
> Never said I wasn't a "geek" ... I'm just not a UNIX geek. :)
>
> Why does this remind me of the Dr. Sueus book about the creatures
> with and without stars?
>
> - Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., Blake Van de Loo <blake@m...> wrote:
>> Maybe you really are a Geek. Just in denial. ;-)
>>
>> Blake
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
30319 From: Baja Fleg <fleigle@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 0:22pm
Subject: RE: OHV Park
I'm just wondering what kind of funding an OHV park would need? The initial
construction might have a small cost from it but wouldn't there be enough
voluteers and donations so offset any cost.
Fleg
----Original Message Follows----
I would think it would be the county board of supervisors. The proposal for
the reconstruction through the Phoenix area was supposed to be funded by a
county tax.
I think some type of formal writing of this would need to be drawn up.
__________________________________________________ _______________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
30320 From: JW <joew@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 0:25pm
Subject: RE: Fw: Cherokee Question
Hey!
I'm a UNIX geek... what's wrong with UNIX geeks?
<grin>
Joe West
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike@A... [mailto:Mike@A...]
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:11 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Fw: [az_vjc] Cherokee Question
>
>
> Never said I wasn't a "geek" ... I'm just not a UNIX geek. :)
>
> Why does this remind me of the Dr. Sueus book about the creatures
> with and without stars?
>
> - Mike
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., Blake Van de Loo <blake@m...> wrote:
> > Maybe you really are a Geek. Just in denial. ;-)
> >
> > Blake
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
30321 From: <Kilr650@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 8:48am
Subject: Re: OHV Park
I have not been to the off road park here in Tucson but I do know you need
to buy a membership and also pay each time you visit. A friend of mine who
rides dirt bikes went there and said it was not worth it in his opinion. He
said the fees were supposed to help maintain the track/trail, including water
for dust control, but he didin't see it.
Eddie
Tucson
30322 From: Kevin Fell <kwfell@y...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 0:59pm
Subject: Axle swap gurus: please check in...
Hi all:
In my endeavor to leave NOTHING stock on my ZJ, I have a question about the
d44 axles of the "narrow" and "wide" track axles from the FSJ Cherokees and
Wagoners. If anyone can help me in my quest, I'd be greatly
appreciative!!! The outcome is to have d44s or better front and rear in my
ZJ with the least amount of money spent.
o What is the width of each from flange to flange?
o Which models/years is it with the pumpkin on the drivers' side? Is it
correct that the manual and auto were different sides?
o How hard would it be to adapt to rear disk brakes?
o Are there certain trailering packages available in those years that
offered a MORE heavy duty axle tube, knuckle or shaft?
o Which of these used automatic and which used manual hubs? Can manual
hubs be swapped into the automatic hub style?
Ok, bonus question: How much wider is say a full-size truck axle from a 1/2
ton Ford p/u? Would you say they would be stronger than d44s?
Lastly, are there any good links you can throw me for axle swaps and such?
I need to do some reading before I tackle this project!
Thank you all for your assistance.
KevinF
'93 ZJ
Just one mod...EVERYTHING!
__________________________________________________ _______
Do You Yahoo!?
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30323 From: <msa12171@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 1:11pm
Subject: FS: 63 Scout w/extras
It has Dana 20s and 4 cyl, good body. He has 2 spare axles, they are
Ford 9" axles, and one is with disc brakes. I know one has a 3rd
member but don't know about the other one. Don't know much more but
he wants $1000 for all. Call him at 623-587-8277, his name is Rick.
Mike Anderson
30324 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 1:15pm
Subject: Re: OHV Park
Well, you all got me going now. Am I the only one who thinks it's
retarded to waste water to keep dust down? We live in a frickin'
desert. It's naturally dusty here - deal with it. It's also
naturally short on water. This makes no sense to me. And it really
infuriates me when they water down a construction zone to keep the
dust down. Not only do the waste that water, but the people whose
cars get muddy driving through the construction zone end up having
to wash their cars which wastes even more water.
And what makes people think they can buy homes next to the desert's
edge and then get upset about dust?
It also doesn't make any sense that the feds give our state money
to keep dust down. It seems to me they should be giving us money
to reduce all the other pollutants. Getting paid to keep the dust
down seems like just a token gesture. Bogus!
-Roger
30325 From: James Junkin <jjunkin@p...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 1:33pm
Subject: Re: Axle swap gurus: please check in...
I'll try to answer with what I know
Front:
FSJ's had front Dana 44's for about the entire 40 year run (at least '70s to
'92)
Which side the diff is on depends on the Tcase not the tranny. Quadratrac
TC's have a passenger side drop and offset rear diff too.
I think all NP TC's have a drivers side drop.
FSJ's came in narrow track, wide track and J Trucks are even wider. A
narrow track front D44 is about 60" rotor face to rotor face. I have one in
my garage if you need additional measurements. It's going under a TJ.
Manual hubs can be swapped out for automatic. The only years to avoid is
around 82-84 when they had a wierd vacuum disconnect in the diff housing.
Rear:
Early (70's) and late model SJ's (87-92) had rear Dana 44's. In between,
they used a one piece AMC 20 which is actually pretty stout.
3/4 ton J trucks had Dana 60's in the rear and 8 lug Dana 44's on the front.
I have a J20 D60 which I am putting under the rear of the TJ
I can get more details if you need 'em. I've been researching about a year.
James Junkin
O | | | | | O
'81 SJ Cherokee "Midnight"
'97 TJ "Tar Baby"
'98 TJ "Crimson Ride"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Fell" <kwfell@y...>
To: "AZVJC List" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 1:59 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Axle swap gurus: please check in...
> Hi all:
>
> In my endeavor to leave NOTHING stock on my ZJ, I have a question about
the
> d44 axles of the "narrow" and "wide" track axles from the FSJ Cherokees
and
> Wagoners. If anyone can help me in my quest, I'd be greatly
> appreciative!!! The outcome is to have d44s or better front and rear in
my
> ZJ with the least amount of money spent.
>
> o What is the width of each from flange to flange?
> o Which models/years is it with the pumpkin on the drivers' side? Is it
> correct that the manual and auto were different sides?
> o How hard would it be to adapt to rear disk brakes?
> o Are there certain trailering packages available in those years that
> offered a MORE heavy duty axle tube, knuckle or shaft?
> o Which of these used automatic and which used manual hubs? Can manual
> hubs be swapped into the automatic hub style?
>
> Ok, bonus question: How much wider is say a full-size truck axle from a
1/2
> ton Ford p/u? Would you say they would be stronger than d44s?
>
> Lastly, are there any good links you can throw me for axle swaps and such?
> I need to do some reading before I tackle this project!
>
> Thank you all for your assistance.
>
> KevinF
> '93 ZJ
> Just one mod...EVERYTHING!
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______
>
> Do You Yahoo!?
>
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
30326 From: Scott Legge <scottlegge@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 1:33pm
Subject: Re: Fw: Cherokee Question HELP ME!!! PLEASE!!! DESPERATE
I NEED UNIX HELP!!! Someone please try to telnet to 24.16.129.14 and tell me
whats going on. I am assuming its a login and pass hunter running ontop of
my real login script? After telnet is up if you ctrl+c it kills the
ssession. WTF CAN SOMEONE HELP!!!
Scott Legge
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Tomas" <tomasr@a...>
To: "gandre01" <gandre01@m...>
Cc: "azvjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [az_vjc] Cherokee Question
> George,
>
> You are a true UNIX geek (like me). ;-) You posted your picture
> in uuencoded format. Only other UNIX geeks will figure out how to
> display it.
>
> -Roger
>
>
> gandre01 wrote:
> >
> > I have attached a picture of it with Len Sullivan's J10 P/U truck. I
have
> > since added several accessories including lights. I should have pictures
> > available this weekend to post.
> >
> > George Andrews
> > '83 Cherokee WT, 454TBI, TH400, QT, D44s, 35x12.50s, ARBs
> > '00 TJ
> > Avondale Arizona
> >
> >
> > begin 666 Bo2&grn1.jpg
> > <snip>
> > end
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
30327 From: Damon Gentile <dgentile@s...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 1:04pm
Subject: Re: Axle swap gurus: please check in...
Kevin Fell wrote:
>
> Hi all:
>
> In my endeavor to leave NOTHING stock on my ZJ, I have a question about the
> d44 axles of the "narrow" and "wide" track axles from the FSJ Cherokees and
> Wagoners. If anyone can help me in my quest, I'd be greatly
> appreciative!!! The outcome is to have d44s or better front and rear in my
> ZJ with the least amount of money spent.
>
> o What is the width of each from flange to flange?
Should be within 1" from stock ZJ, don't have the measurement handy.
> o Which models/years is it with the pumpkin on the drivers' side? Is it
> correct that the manual and auto were different sides?
All the NP t-cases drop on the left hand side.
> o How hard would it be to adapt to rear disk brakes?
Typical homebrew 44, not very difficult if you have the mindset. Asking
the question probably means you wont have a problem.
> o Are there certain trailering packages available in those years that
> offered a MORE heavy duty axle tube, knuckle or shaft?
Well some FSJs had M20 rears, others had M44s. Personal preference
there.
Beyond that nothing really varied aside from ring & pinion ratios. 2.72s
are ultra common. 3.07s can be had with a lot of digging. MAYBE find
3.55s
behind a 6 cyl.
> o Which of these used automatic and which used manual hubs? Can manual
> hubs be swapped into the automatic hub style?
I think all of the SJs I've seen used NO hubs, just a drive flange.
Simply
unbolt the drive flange and swap in a 6-bolt external hub. Same bolt
pattern.
>
> Ok, bonus question: How much wider is say a full-size truck axle from a 1/2
> ton Ford p/u? Would you say they would be stronger than d44s?
Yes wider. Stronger ?? Depends on the year. 44 front end would be a pain
to
trim the coil brackets and radius arm stuff from. (like get a waggy
front end!)
rear - 9".
HTH,
-d
>
> Lastly, are there any good links you can throw me for axle swaps and such?
> I need to do some reading before I tackle this project!
>
> Thank you all for your assistance.
>
> KevinF
> '93 ZJ
> Just one mod...EVERYTHING!
>
> __________________________________________________ _______
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
30328 From: Eric Herring <herring@q...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 1:42pm
Subject: RE: OHV Park
I agree 100%. Every time I hear someone complain about the dust I ask why
they moved to the desert.
Eric Herring 92XJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Tomas [mailto:tomasr@a...]
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 1:16 PM
To: AZ_VJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] OHV Park
Well, you all got me going now. Am I the only one who thinks it's
retarded to waste water to keep dust down? We live in a frickin'
desert. It's naturally dusty here - deal with it. It's also
naturally short on water. This makes no sense to me. And it really
infuriates me when they water down a construction zone to keep the
dust down. Not only do the waste that water, but the people whose
cars get muddy driving through the construction zone end up having
to wash their cars which wastes even more water.
And what makes people think they can buy homes next to the desert's
edge and then get upset about dust?
It also doesn't make any sense that the feds give our state money
to keep dust down. It seems to me they should be giving us money
to reduce all the other pollutants. Getting paid to keep the dust
down seems like just a token gesture. Bogus!
-Roger
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
30329 From: DesertJeep <joey@j...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 1:39pm
Subject: RE: OHV Park
There are other things in the river bottoms that create dust regularly
every day. They should look at those operations too.
Joey K
93YJ
www.desertjeep.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:29 PM
> Cc: AZ_VJC
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] OHV Park
>
>
> Even if you could overcome the liability, etc. obstacles, I
> seriously doubt you could get it past the air quality issue
> (ie.., the dust). They closed the Aqua Fria river bed on the
> west side of Phoenix a year or so back. Maricopa County's
> dust regulations were all it took to close that area down. I
> know this for a fact because I attended the land use meeting
> right after it happend, hosted by the county/city
> folks.....the dust sniffing folks were there from the county
> and recited chapter and verse the rules that made it happen.
> Also in attendance were the BLM, State Trust, Forest Service,
> etc. type of folks, who were also quite interested in this
> whole issue.
>
> So....to open up an area that is guaranteed to crate tons of
> dust....I hate to say it, but dream on. Maricopa County will
> NOT risk its state and federal funding $$ because someone
> wants to go off-roading in the middle of town, IMO.
>
> Of course, I could be completely wrong.
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lynch [mailto:lynch@v...]
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:22 AM
> To: Scott Legge
> Cc: AZ_VJC; James Towle
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] OHV Park
>
>
> Hence the idea of running somewhere in the river corridor..
> Sky Harbor uses that as a traffic area (when they're not
> buzzing Tempe and North Mesa with 747's! :) so noise is
> perhaps not as big of a factor.
>
> Liability is a definite concern, but I'd think if cities can
> run skate parks where 12 year olds catch air on skateboards,
> an OHV park with lotsa rocks and twisty stuff shouldn't be
> much different. Some sort of rules regarding spotting and
> pedestrians not trafficking the vehicle areas are probably
> necessary. Does anyone know what places like Cinder Hills do?
> Are there liability release forms and such?
>
> Being a resident for only a year, I don't know what flooding
> issues exist for that area either.. and with our 'monsoon'
> storms in the summer, such things would need to be carefully
> analyzed. An OHV park would go under quickly if a bunch of
> newbies with stock vehicles got flooded out and then sued or whatever.
>
> -lynch
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 11:01:28PM -0700, Scott Legge wrote:
> > unstuck. Quite an eventful sat morning :) They should open
> one up in
> > town except noise and pollution would have people freaking out much
> > less the LIABILITY!
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...>
> > To: "AZ_VJC" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 5:20 PM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] OHV Park
> >
> >
> > >
> > > This is just an idea, and maybe a stupid one.
> > >
> > > As I was driving along the 202 east today, I was
> remembering being
> > > able
> to
> > > run through the river bottom. I noticed further that
> there are some
> stair
> > > steps in the river bottom just west of McClintock.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo!
> Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
30330 From: Scott Legge <scottlegge@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 2:01pm
Subject: Re: Fw: Cherokee Question HELP ME!!! PLEASE!!! DESPERATE
I know thats what its doing to me too... fawk man my root password is xdm123
if you can get it to work let me know! That password ok is a dead
giveaway... You can ctrl+c it and the login process dies. YOU CANT ctrl+c
the REAL login process plus after login ok you can see the password you
type... MY username is (scott) pass (72scout2) if you can get in w/ that
(you have su privilidges) if you know what you are doing fix it ?:) I am
stumped on this one! I cant even get to a command prompt to do ANYTHING! It
runs as my router behind a cable connection so the router procs start and I
have a connection... Any help from anyone would be great... NEEDLESS TO SAY
all passwords will be changed when it is all fixed...
Scott Legge
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Tomas" <tomasr@a...>
To: "Scott Legge" <scottlegge@h...>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [az_vjc] Cherokee Question HELP ME!!! PLEASE!!! DESPERATE
> Scott Legge wrote:
> Scott,
>
> Remember, I called myself a UNIX geek - not a UNIX guru! ;-)
>
> Anyway, I tried telneting the the IP address you gave. It prompted me
> with "Ok, Password:" which made it seem like it assumed a login id and
> skipped prompting for that. I couldn't tell you what it's really doing.
>
> -Roger
>
> >
> > I NEED UNIX HELP!!! Someone please try to telnet to 24.16.129.14 and
tell me
> > whats going on. I am assuming its a login and pass hunter running ontop
of
> > my real login script? After telnet is up if you ctrl+c it kills the
> > ssession. WTF CAN SOMEONE HELP!!!
30331 From: Brian Pavlich <brian.pavlich@i...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 2:18pm
Subject: RE: OHV Park : Dust Concerns
DRY. Dusty. Dusty. dusty ..
Many years ago there was a public service announcement that talked about Valley Fever. I havent seen that ad in many years, but I doubt that the situation is much different today. I think that concerns around dust are due to this menace that lives in our soil.
Please see this link for more info:
http://www.astdhpphe.org/infect/valley.html
Some of you may have it from wheeling in dusty areas and dont even know it..
- Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Tomas [mailto:tomasr@agcs.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 1:16 PM
To: AZ_VJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] OHV Park
Well, you all got me going now. Am I the only one who thinks it's
retarded to waste water to keep dust down? We live in a frickin'
desert. It's naturally dusty here - deal with it. It's also
naturally short on water. This makes no sense to me. And it really
infuriates me when they water down a construction zone to keep the
dust down. Not only do the waste that water, but the people whose
cars get muddy driving through the construction zone end up having
to wash their cars which wastes even more water.
And what makes people think they can buy homes next to the desert's
edge and then get upset about dust?
It also doesn't make any sense that the feds give our state money
to keep dust down. It seems to me they should be giving us money
to reduce all the other pollutants. Getting paid to keep the dust
down seems like just a token gesture. Bogus!
-Roger
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
30332 From: <ehsankiani@y...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 2:27pm
Subject: RHD conversion pics in new gallery
Hello,
I just added another gallery to the IJC hompage in the gallery
section at
http://ijc.8m.com
Do chec it out and tell me what you think..It has pics of the
right hand drive conversion I did on my 1979 Jeep Cherokee.
Thanx
Ehsan
30333 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 2:38pm
Subject: [TR] Charouleau Gap - Saturday, September 1, 2001
Hello All,
steve sample is leading a Charouleau Gap trail run on Saturday, September 1, 2001.
When: 8:00 am start
Where: trailhead in catalina
Rating: 4.0-
Length: 7 hrs
CB Channel: 4
just did the trail last sat with 3 others. eddie had no lift TJ with locked F&R; but bottomed out couple times. recommend lift and rear locker but not mandatory. on hwy 89 in catalina head east on golder ranch dr at the texaco sta. go about 1.25 mi to lago del oro parkway just before bridge. go north on lago del oro maybe a couple miles. the trail head is right on the east side of lago del oro with a state billboard/check-in register.
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
30334 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 2:49pm
Subject: [FS] Tow Hitch For Wrangler 87-95
Price: $125.00 obo
Contact: Jason Merrill
I have a tow hitch for 87-95 wranglers I have it on my 90 wrangler and used it to pull teh stuck Fords, Chevys, Nissans and Toys out of the Mud. well I have it for sale and if anyone is intreseted call me at
602-722-9391 Price is neg....
Jason Merrill
30335 From: Baja Fleg <fleigle@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 3:32pm
Subject: RE: OHV Park : Dust Concerns
Well give me some "fungus-killing medicines" and lets build the OHV area. I
must admit thats the first time I've ever heard a reason for keeping dust
levels down. I only fit into most of the categories that have a high risk
for this Valley Fever.
Fleg
----Original Message Follows----
DRY. Dusty. Dusty. dusty ..
Many years ago there was a public service announcement that talked about
Valley Fever. I havent seen that ad in many years, but I doubt that the
situation is much different today. I think that concerns around dust are due
to this menace that lives in our soil.
Please see this link for more info:
http://www.astdhpphe.org/infect/valley.html
Some of you may have it from wheeling in dusty areas and dont even know it..
- Brian
__________________________________________________ _______________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
30336 From: <adg02@p...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 5:17pm
Subject: jeep for sale
1987 Jeep YJ Wrangler for sale:
2.5 Liter 4 cyl,189K, 5 Spd, NP231, Dana 35&30,4.10 ratio, Warn
8274 winch,add-a-leaf,235x15 Desert Dogs, Hard top & full doors,
Folding rear seat. $4500 located 67 Av/Camelback area.
Email adg02@p...
30337 From: Shawn and Michelle <smpassmore@e...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 5:35pm
Subject: Re: Re: Trail Information
I have to admit that I only thought about joining the "club" because of all
the technical advice given and the open sharing of the trails. In fact I did
a search on Saguaro coves and came across the clean-up article, That was a
major part of why I joined the club..
I say let it stay how it is..
my $.02
Shawn
jeepcj5nut
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Tomas" <tomasr@a...>
To: "Brent Lizakowski" <brent_lizakowski@h...>
Cc: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Trail Information
> I agree with Brent on this issue. Hiding information is not a very
> effective approach. Since we advocate education on responsible land
> use as opposed to land closures, we should practice what we preach.
> Let's wrap a bunch of responsible land use and Tread Lightly stuff
> around the trail info and then encourage others to come to our website
> for this information. After all, it's "those others" that need to be
> reached and educated.
>
> -Roger
>
> Brent Lizakowski wrote:
> > Maybe we should hide the info to non-members and make them go through
> > a series of pages that describe good wheeling practices (pack in/out
> > your trash, TREAD lightly, etc.)? Once they get the gospel, then they
> > can sign up and have the trail info.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
30338 From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 5:26pm
Subject: Re: Re: OHV Park
A lot of the river bottom is Arizona State Trust Land. The Scottsdale
Hummer and Land Rover dealers used to have a "test track" in the Salt
River river bottom near ASU.
Linda
Baja Fleg wrote:
>
> You gotta wonder if anyone actually reads that. So what are we going to
> say? Can anyone here be a little creative and write a half way intelegent
> email about this? I don't think an email that says Hey we want to wheel in
> the riverbed would get much of a response.
>
> Fleg
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> How about this:
>
> http://www.ci.phoenix.az.us/EMAIL/emsr.html
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "Baja Fleg" <fleigle@h...> wrote:
> > Good luck getting this one past the greenies. We all know it is
> > just a dried up riverbed with no use but to turn it into an OHV
> > area but the greens would come up with something. Who would we
> > need to get in contact with to see if it did have a chance?
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
30339 From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 5:28pm
Subject: Re: OHV Park
Ask the TRR4WDC in Tucson what it took to get the Pima Motorsports Park
built. It took several years and a lot of volunteer hours. You gotta be
committed to this type of project.
Linda
Baja Fleg wrote:
>
> I'm just wondering what kind of funding an OHV park would need? The initial
> construction might have a small cost from it but wouldn't there be enough
> voluteers and donations so offset any cost.
>
> Fleg
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
>
> I would think it would be the county board of supervisors. The proposal for
> the reconstruction through the Phoenix area was supposed to be funded by a
> county tax.
> I think some type of formal writing of this would need to be drawn up.
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
30340 From: <dkober@g...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 5:44pm
Subject: Aug. 4th Anniversary Run Pictures
I was wondering if anyone has posted pictures from the AZVJC CK run.
I was in the group led by Doug Ballard.
30341 From: James Towle <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2001 5:46pm
Subject: Re: OHV Park
I will try to contact the City of Phoenix, Maricopa County & the
State within the next couple of weeks to see if I can get anywhere.
The dust factor will be a problem although, in some respects it can't
be any worse than some of the quaries being run in the Phoenix part
of the river. One thing that didn't make me think about dust is,
there is no dust when you crawl over rocks. But, in order to make
this park useful to others the dust would have to be addressed.
Along other notes, I moved to Tempe in 1968. The river was fair game
back then, not only for off roaders but for garbage dumpers and
hunting (birds). If we could show them that off roaders can be
concerned for the enviroment, e.g., Cove Cleanup, maybe we would
have "a leg up."
--James
--- In az_vjc@y..., linda luik <minihummer@w...> wrote:
> A lot of the river bottom is Arizona State Trust Land. The
Scottsdale
> Hummer and Land Rover dealers used to have a "test track" in the
Salt
> River river bottom near ASU.
>
> Linda
>
> Baja Fleg wrote:
> >
> > You gotta wonder if anyone actually reads that. So what are we
going to
> > say? Can anyone here be a little creative and write a half way
intelegent
> > email about this? I don't think an email that says Hey we want
to wheel in
> > the riverbed would get much of a response.
> >
> > Fleg
> >