Why I will not do business with AirPark Jeep

[SavageSun4x4]

This was brought up in another thread where I discussed my efforts to order a new 07 Jeep Wrangler.

I had no intention of bringing up this issue untill Jason, a salesman at AirPark Jeep approached me on the forum. That said, Jason is a fine man, sadly like many good people worked at ENRON he works for AirPark Jeep.

Now that the cat has been let out of the bag so to speak I am starting a new thread and reposting several posts that strayed off topic. However due to popular demand I will continue with my saga of AirPark Jeep.

[SavageSun4x4]

Don, I consider my self to be one of the very few out there that even owns a jeep!!! Nobody out there (other dealers) know anything about the pricing on these new 2007's..They will smoke you in just to waste your time...How do I know???? I'm a salesmen...nuf said!!!!! I believe you will go through 23 more dealers until you find one that will help you with your cause. I am one of 5% that takes selling as a carear, not a quick way to make "fast money". I have over 400 satisfied clients..most salesmen move around so much, they never get a database of clients!!! By the way I was at airpark in nov 2004...I advertised on the oldsite and wheeled a little bit back then!!! Fleet brokers are no hassle, but they need to make a cut somewhere!!! As far as sales tax goes, no matter where you buy..you will pay tax when you bring the jeep back into AZ, theres no way around it!!! Just a side note the Tax in scottsdale is 7.95% which will save you plenty on that new 30k rig!!! I don't know what my ad price will be when the new unlimiteds come out, I do know they will be aggressive!!!

Jason 602-751-7382

Jason,
Here we face a conundrum and the proverbial dichotomy of the sales representative and the dealership.

Clearly in my minds eye I had planned to buy from you even if I had to give a bit more. Because you one of us, I have wheeled with you before and you are a good person, simple as that.

I also had been a good customer of your dealership in spite of not buying a vehicle there. However, I have just been living here 2 years last month and the only vehicle we have bought here was my wife’s H2, and you don’t sell H2s. I have had some work done down there and paid astronomical prices, such as $160 for a single spark plug change. I have bought all my Jeep parts down there in spite of paying staggering prices. In other words, I have been a loyal customer.

So why haven’t I just called you up and said “order me a ’07? Lets review my last two times down at Airpark:

Couple of months ago I experienced some possible fuel injector problems. After tinkering with this and tracing every possible solution I could think of and not solving the issue I knew I needed some help. I drive down to AirPark and ask them to look at it and run some diagnostics. Cost is about $125 for this. No problem here I am not asking for favors. However, I am turned down, WTF, why is my question. I am told “you’re Jeep is too modified”. Explain I ask. After much stumbling and bumbling by inept service advisors, they call the mech who said NO. He too can only mutter too modified and they are too busy.

I don’t get mad, I just say ok and I head down to see Nick at POR. Nick recommends a guy, I drive over he connects his machine tells me I have a bad injector, I pay him $75 and tell him I will get some injectors and be back soon as I can get injectors for him to install. I do, he does, and I am still happy.

Now I have a new code being thrown and it is telling me I have a bad cat. Maybe having something to do with the fact that I drove around for a couple of weeks with fuel POURING thru a stuck open injector, # 6. Moreover, the cat that is bad is, # 2, the one that supports cylinders # 4, #5 and #6.

Again, I go to AirPark to help me out. Again, I am turned away with the too modified routine. When I ask for specifics a service writer points at my Jeep and says, you have put a lift kit and oversized tires”. I ask what that has to do with getting it looked at or diagnostics and furthermore what does big tires have to do with the code that says cat not working correctly. He looks at me with more drool coming out of his mouth than Michael Jackson sitting on the carpper with the little boys section of a Sears catalog. I then watch him stumble off and come back with, you guessed it, the same mechanic as last time who tells me I have a supercharger on there and that is the reason what the cat is not working. In spite of the fact, there are 3 cats on my Jeep and all are working fine except one. At this time the two of them, both who are shaking harder than a dog trying to pass a peach seed RUN into get some gal who I guess is in charge of the sick, lame and lazy folks there and tell her this story. Immediately if not sooner, she calls the ZONE REP to get a read out of what they should do, since not even her can make a decision. The zone rep does not answer and they mumble something about calling me later.

Again, I leave with no diagnostic procedure performed, nothing but empty hands and a Jeep throwing codes.

Somewhere down the road, I get a call and no way can this be covered under warranty.

Now, for the first time since I have lived here go to another dealership only to discover my Jeep is now listed in the computer as NO WARRANTY and other poor mouthing by AirPark. This dealer does take the Jeep in and run diagnostics, tells what is wrong for sure and quotes me a price to repair.

Lets recap:

Both times NOTHING was done to ascertain the issues, instead some mechanic out back between trying to figure if that is grease on his hand or something left over from his last trip to the crapper, says no! Based upon, lift, big tires, armor plating and my supercharger.

AirPark has invalidated my warranty; poor mouthed me and refused to even work on my Jeep.

ONE MORE THING: Both times they took back the work order from me and made a point to do so before I left. This is called, destroying the evidence. And it is this trick that they use to keep there so called 5 Star Service Rating. Since no work order, no one calls to see how you were treated and did they do the work, etc.

I have always believed that if they don’t treat you well in the service bay then they won’t treat you well on the sales floor.

FACT: AirPark DOES NOT stand behind Jeep products.

FACT: AirPark lacks business ethics and professionalism.

Jason, I have no issue with buying from you at all, but buying from AirPark is a whole nother bag of crap.

Part II:

WOW!!! :eek: Why did they take away your waranty??? I know there dead set against major mods..but damn..i can't believe that. They get very strange when superchargers are added and big lifts over 3".
I can respect your descision to buy elsewhere. Unfortunitly your out come anywhere else would have been simular.
I am here if you need help

Jason

I don?t care how strange they get. I can put a 6-foot lift on that puppy and unless I ask for warranty work that is affected by it, it don?t mean squat. Same goes for the Avenger Supercharger. In fact, I NEVER demanded any warranty, I just asked for diagnostics that I was willing to pay for. DUH

I also asked them to pull up my warranty record of which there have been 3 warranty actions on all in the first 6 mo of ownership. And now I have had my 7/70 warranty taken away, WTF, what kind of scam operation are you guys running up there.

That and the slime-ball lack of ethics cowards have destroyed the paperwork?WTF, GIVE ME A FRIGGIN BRAKE.

This is the way AirPark does business. Anyone here is a fool to buy from AirPark and expect warranty support or even something as simple as a diagnostic test run on it for which you are willing to pay for.

WHO THE FAWK is running that place Joesheet D Ragman the mechanic????

I sure as hell hope you tell management this, and while your at tell them I have bought NEW 9 Jeeps since 1989 or an average of a new Jeep every 1.8 years. While your at it, tell?um ole Don here is gonna hurt them because HE ain?t gonna buy no damn Jeeps from them and he is gonna INFLUENCE every swinging Richard and Bouncing Betty he comes across not to either, guess that could be some number tween ZERO and a whole lot, go figure!

Albeit I haven?t gotten around to it, and I will let you know when I do, expect to see this story on my website. Titled ?WHY I WOULD NOT BUY FROM AirPark Jeep.

No I did not go thru Eric, he wasn?t there when I drove up, I had some guy I call Drooler.

5 Star Dealership...kiss my FAWKIN BU-TOCKS, like hell they are. Just to help those of you out on this 5 star crap. You take the car, have work done, then you get a card or a call by a company who is checking this stuff for DC who awards 5 Stars for being good. If your not happy then it gets fed back to the dealership who will most often call you and try to resolve it.

SO, how does the folks get your number and address...you guessed it, from the WORK ORDER.

How to beat the sytem and still get 5 stars...DESTROY the WORK ORDER like they DID MINE TWICE. No WO, no call.

Only a few weeks after I moved here I put my Jeep into AirPark for some possible warranty work. The under hood light had gone out and my seat belt light would not go out even with the seat belt inserted.

AirPark called and wife dropped me off to get the Jeep. Requested work NOT covered by warranty. They said the bulb had burned out on the underhood light and that the wiring under the seat had been cut.

Bulb burned out: Not true, in fact it was never even looked at. I opened it up and touched the bulb and it came on, problem, corroded contacts. I cleaned them off and it worked. Of note is that there was a written estimate to fix the so-called burned out bulb. The cost of the bulb and time to install it came to $37 dollars. He told me the bulb was expensive and hard to get to. I passed

Cut seat belt wires under seat: I examined them and they appeared to have been cut with scissors or a knife. I then examined the seat folding mechanism and discovered that it could indeed cut the wires and I sure didn?t. I pointed this out to the service writer and he just said too bad.

About a week later I got a call asking about my service. I told them I was more than unhappy because the bulb was NOT burned out and I felt the seat had cut the wire.

I get a call from the Service Manager a couple of days later, telling me that it was a mistake and that they should have been covered by warranty and blah, blah blah. If I come in they will fix it at no charge and throw in a free oil change. Ohhh, I passed on that too.

[Turtle]

Holy bejesus! I read the first sentence and didn't understand half the words!!

You should shorten this novel up so that people like me with a short attention span might be a little more interested....

All I see is blah blah blah the blah blah Jason blah blah EEKS!

Turtle : )

[jeepin_in_az]

Good job Don!

[1BLKJP]

Hey Don, I hear ya on this one brotha. Never had a good experience at AirPark. Did however buy my 99 from Earnhardt's and have had good luck in the service area and parts counter out there at the one on Baseline and Hardy.

[Huck]

I won't do business with Airpark either. I've bought two new Jeeps in the past three years. I ended up getting both from Moore (It was worth the drive for me and I used their fleet services guy).

From Airpark my Fiance was quoted a price after being on the lot for two hours and negotiating with the salesman for two hours. I then called the dealership, as they had the Jeep we wanted and got a better price in 5 minutes over the phone. I confirmed the price and then picked up my gal for a stroll over to purchase another Jeep. We walked thru the door and met up with the person who quoted me the price, not her original guy that was jerking her around. We drove the vehicle and were ready to discuss the terms of the financing we were after. The salesman walks out and shows me a higher price than he quoted me. He says that they have to add this fee and that fee, but then he would take it off immediately (negotiate it down from the higher price). I explained that when I'm quoted a price, that's the price. You don't come out and show me a price that's higher than the quote and then remove some of the charges. That's not how I negotiate nor how I do business. I'm straight up and was with the guy. He brought out his manager who then tried the same thing when I stated that I wasn't paying cash for the new car. I was only putting down about half of the cost in cash and was looking to finance the other half.
The 'Jobba the hut' looking fat man, who knocked over my water than states to me that he can't sell a vehicle to an unhappy customer and asks us to leave.

We leave and I armed my gal with the facts and a what price we needed. I gave her the name of a guy to use at Moore and she made the call. She then negotiated the deal. The next day we ended up picking up the same VIN'd vehicle for $1900 less than what Airpark wanted prior to kicking us out. The vehicle was ready for us and we had to sign nothing. The paperwork came in the mail and we had no issues.

I've been Dead Set against Airpark ever since. I've talked with three folks since then, who purchased from them, and they all say they over-paid. No biggie as everyone makes their own deals. I just take offense to folks who say they are giving you an honest quote and then change up when they bring you the offer.

They see none of my business and I steer all I can away from them. Don. it may be too late now, as you've already been black-balled by Airpark, but I get all my service work done by Bill Luke. They are mod friendly and have warrantied both of my front axle shafts and front drive shaft-you know our Rubi's with factory axles..... Anyway, it has never been an issue. They have been striaght when taking care of issue for both Mine and Jamie's Jeeps.
Nuff said

[1toughxj]

As far as a dealership voiding your entire warranty due to aftermarket products installed, it's actually illegal. They have to prove that the aftermarket product was the cause. Here is page from one of my vendors website that does a good job of explaining it. The law is called the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

http://www.magnusonproducts.com/magnusonmoss.htm

[mingoglia]

Yep, you can find a lot of folks talking over the years of Ganuson-Moss over at http://turbodieselregister.com It's a popular topic of conversation due to the amount of folks that modify their engines. THere have been case after case where a dealership has threatened to void the entire warranty over truck mods.

The Act basically says you can't refuse warranty service on a power steering pump when injectors were installed, or you can't deny the engine warranty because you lifted the truck, etc. But if you were in a situation where you put injectors and a computer in your truck and blew out the rear end you can be denied if they prove that the failure was do to the higher output of the engine....

Mike

[xFallen]

Yep, you can find a lot of folks talking over the years of Ganuson-Moss over at http://turbodieselregister.com It's a popular topic of conversation due to the amount of folks that modify their engines. THere have been case after case where a dealership has threatened to void the entire warranty over truck mods.

The Act basically says you can't refuse warranty service on a power steering pump when injectors were installed, or you can't deny the engine warranty because you lifted the truck, etc. But if you were in a situation where you put injectors and a computer in your truck and blew out the rear end you can be denied if they prove that the failure was do to the higher output of the engine....

Mike


Good call guys. I was going to post up about the possible legalities. Certainly consult a lawyer, but presuming what happened is actually what Don describes (i.e. they voided the entire warranty as per Don's post) then they broke US Federal law.

In this case, one would have to demonstrate that inadequate fuel pressure allowed the injector to hang open under higher than designed manifold pessure caused by the supercharger. Or, that the injector was not able to withstand the higher fuel pressure. That latter one is nonsense, of course, since those injectors are used in all sorts of applications.

If the FPR is not set properly then I can see an injector eventually failing and likely causing the cat to die.

More than likely the injector failure had zero to do with the supercharger, but they are within their right to diagnose it. They are not within their right to deny warranty on unrelated items without proper proof. Sounds like these ninnies couldn't be trusted to even do that.

I won't go there mostly becasue they gouge at the parts counter...


Barry

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

WOW, sounds like I opened a can of worms!!!!!!! Sorry to hear about your misfortune...I don't know any body that every paid too much at airpark???? We would never let a customer out on a $2k profit deal??? The competition is fierce out there, sounds like you worked with a bad salesmen or YOU over negotiated your deal...I see that all the time???? Just do your research over the internet and go to the dealer armed with what you know, its that simple. The bad is i'm the only one left after 3 years, the others just come and go...no matter what dealer it is..its the same deal. Airpark can't be that bad, if it was I would not work there...plain and simple. I guarentee nobody in this club ever had a bad experience working with me. Thats ok if you want to bash my place of business, if you don't want to do business...exercise your right to go elsewhere.

[Oc1paddler]

You guys need to learn how to buy new cars. Go thru a broker or thru Cosco! You not only get no pressure, no haggling fixed rates, but you also save a ton of money. I bought two cars in the last year thru Cosco and saved close to 10 grand off what the dealers asking price was. Once you go thru a broker you will never use a normal sale person again.
Pierre
P.S. The larger brokers have there own warranty guys that they deal with and will step up to the plate if you are not being taken care of.

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

Costco is an excelent way too save money and get a great deal!!!! And a broker isn't bad eithier, if you don't mind paying more. The state is cracking down on brokers and they may not be around much longer. Doing your own research on the net is the best way too buy a new or used car. I sell both ways and I perfer to already know someone before they walk through the door and internet sales is the the best way to do busniess for me and the client.

[Antman]

Holy bejesus! I read the first sentence and didn't understand half the words!!

You should shorten this novel up so that people like me with a short attention span might be a little more interested....

All I see is blah blah blah the blah blah Jason blah blah EEKS!

Turtle : )


You need to keep a dictionary by your computer, my boy.:rolleyes:

You can learn a lot from Don!

[SavageSun4x4]

More than likely the injector failure had zero to do with the supercharger, but they are within their right to diagnose it.
Barry
Read my posts closely Barry...that is a major bone of contention here. They DID NOT diagnose it, EVEN when I offered to pay!

Worse still is the fact that the paperwork was destroyed, thus no paper trail. And like someone said, the dealer cannot make the call, but a Zone Manager can. Of course they talked with him on the fone and I wasn't present, I have no paperwork and neither do they. Guess it the Zone Managers fault...

[wannabejeeper]

I keep telling you guys to come to me.:D The dealer SOMETIMES has the right to make a judgement call on warranty issues. Sorry to hear about your issues Don. Shoot me a pm with the last 8 of your vin, the mileage, and first four letters of you last name and I'll run it through the DC site and see if they really did void the warr...if you would like me to.
brian

[ryan rich]

while we r on this topic i went to darner to buy a used tj with alot of mods 4 under retail i was going to pay the price on the ad no bickering plus ttl i was trading in a van had a clear title it was memorial weeked last year there r no ledding companies open i wont sign notting till i know 4 sure what there offering so i say u hold my title dont sell the jeep ill be back tues they say ok ill be here i get back sells man not here jeep sold and gone i talked to the sales & finace managers they say sorry we can sell u another car i say give me my title back and i wont ever be back i get a call a couple weeks later did u buy a car i say yes i did and even if i didnt i wouldnt buy from u he says why and then i tell him he says sorry and then wants to get off the phone asap i wont buy from there even if it saves me :mad:

[Crawldit]

I've gotta stick up for Jason here. I bought my Rubicon from Airpark and had a great experience. Not only did I get Employee Pricing on the new Rubicon but they also gave me $4k over KBB Trade-In Value for the Wrangler X that I got rid of. I liked Jason from the first time I met him and I like him even more now that I've wheeled with him a couple times. He should definitely not be "guilty by association" because of run-ins with some less then competant service reps. FWIW I know what you're feeling Don. I bought my Wrangler X from Earnhardts and had my extended warranty voided because of too large of a lift and bigger tires. It's a down right crappy situation, but I also know that not many people have the time/money to go after DC for this stuff. I actually went so far as to get a lawyer and he told me it was a lost cause.

[JeepPunk]

Not just the service dept. at AirPORK... but on the sales end as well. Went to get a new Rubicon. This is our 5th Jeep, and first wrangler. All others were Grands. Had to deal with the 3 Stooges (lets call them Jeff, John and George). After hours of trying to work numbers both sides could live with its a no go. We leave, have a message when we get home. Stooge #1 keeps calling and wanting us to come back for more. He says they have a deal we can go for, and I say put on paper and we will come look at it. Another hour wasted at AirPORK and we are out and will never step foot inside again. During the 3 day mess working with them I found the same Rubicon 15 miles South and had the deal all but done. I told the Stooges this and showed them what I was getting from another dealer. Stooge #3 (aka George) called us liars and freaked out.

Anyway long story made short. We love our new Rubicon. My wife likes the white color even though she would have liked to have the green one from AirPORK. We saved over $3200 from AirPORK's best deal ever and learned a good lesson. We have made it a point to stress the Negative side of Airpark whenever anyone asks us about our great new Jeep. Negative feedback is always remembered.

Jason... can you tell me the connection between the V-Rods on the floor and the neighbor Mr. Hatch?



We would never let a customer out on a $2k profit deal??? The competition is fierce out there, sounds like you worked with a bad salesmen or YOU over negotiated your deal...I see that all the time???? Just do your research over the internet and go to the dealer armed with what you know, its that simple.

I did just that, I went in there armed with more information and research than they knew what to do with. They didnt want to look at and didnt care what I had found on my own.

It was kind of sad that my wife had more knowledge of the Rubicon than the sales idiot Jeff did. This was the first new car we ever delt on that the sales idiot had to drive us around and off the lot first. For what its worth it was the first time we have ever been chaperoned on a test drive. Then before any numbers or terms were talked about he tried to tell us "what we really wanted, and that was an X not a Rubicon"

Anyway its all good now, we dont mind driving a little further South to another dealer.

Dave

[SavageSun4x4]

I've gotta stick up for Jason here. I bought my Rubicon from Airpark and had a great experience. Not only did I get Employee Pricing on the new Rubicon but they also gave me $4k over KBB Trade-In Value for the Wrangler X that I got rid of. I liked Jason from the first time I met him and I like him even more now that I've wheeled with him a couple times. He should definitely not be "guilty by association" because of run-ins with some less then competant service reps. FWIW I know what you're feeling Don. I bought my Wrangler X from Earnhardts and had my extended warranty voided because of too large of a lift and bigger tires. It's a down right crappy situation, but I also know that not many people have the time/money to go after DC for this stuff. I actually went so far as to get a lawyer and he told me it was a lost cause.
Just to say it again. I got nothing against Jason in any shape, form or fashion, nor is this a bash Jason thread. I have no qualms about buying from Jason, problem is he works for ENRON, errr AirPark and they are not getting my money. Nor am I pissed off about the warranty thing, as I said I have only used it 3 times since Sept of 02. I didn't ask them to cover my fuel injectors or warranty my cat. Even tho there is not one shred of evidence that says my supercharger caused the cat to go bad. Had they done a diagonstic at $125 bucks I would have had them put in new injectors and a new cat later on.

Don't forget the $160 spark plug [as in ONE, 1, each] I paid for.

What chaps me is the way they do business.

[YGOHOME]

Thanks for posting your experience with them Don. Hopefully this will get back to someone there and turn things around... but I wouldn't count on it. That sounded like a nightmare.

They actually tried selling me a 3" teraflex lift installed for $2500 when I took my jeep into them for an alignment shortly after I bought it from them. I played stupid and asked for a printed itemized listing of the parts and labor. They had $ signs in their eyes and I never seen service rep move so fast. I knew right then they could be trouble.

Well, that was a few years ago. But just last month as I was driving near their locations my engine light came on and the engine was stuttering. So I dropped it off with them and they said that they'd start on it right away and call me the next day. I thought that was pretty cool and hoped whatever it was would be covered under warranty.

They called the next day... Jeep diagnoses said #5 was misfiring and that the following was required:

-Spark plugs they were asking $147.80 with labor. I think champion 4412's
sell for about $2 each so that's about $133 labor for a 15 - 20 min job.

-Fuel system cleaning... clean injectors, fuel filter replaced, and flush
something. cant remember what it was they'd be flushing (someone later said it was my wallet) $282.63

-Locking fuel cap $55 (since the original wasn't locking anymore) ... keyed to my ignition key adds another $50

-Diagnostic fee $95

-haz waste disposal of $40

I told them to go ahead with the fuel system cleaning (I didn't know how
to clean the injectors and I think the filter is located in the tank on my 04 tj).

I told them I'd do the plugs myself but they came back and said the $95
diagnosis fee would be waved if I had them do it... so I gave in to their
sales pitch and they will be doing the plugs too.

I'm very proud that I'm mechanically able to replace a fuel cap with a non locking one from their parts counter. So I saved about $70 there.

Total was $500 with tax - enough to convince me to buy my own code scanner that following weekend for future diagnostics instead of taking it to a dealer. But I question if they even dropped the tank to replace the fuel filter... my invoice shows D-CARB/INTAKCLNR/FIKIT. I think I may have paid $500 for carb cleaner and 6 spark plugs (oh, and labor).

anyways, I'm always leary of dealerships but your story about Airpark down right scares me.

- Ben

[wannabejeeper]

My diag is only $97, and I will never turn away work.<insert shameless plug here>:D

[SavageSun4x4]

I think I may have paid $500 for carb cleaner and 6 spark plugs (oh, and labor).

- Ben
I'll bet money, they just poured a can of injector cleaner in the tank and changed out your spark plugs...MAYBE.

But don't feel bad, I paid AirPark $160 for one plug to be changed when I threw a code.

[danno]

My 2 cents... Short and sweet...

AirPark has taken good care of me both for service and parts. I have never paid what I consider to be too much for parts or service.

Moore Chrysler Jeep on the other hand has done me really wrong once.

Moral of the story... If you want consistant good service from dealership to dealership.... Buy a Lexus.

[wannabejeeper]

Thanks for posting your experience with them Don. Hopefully this will get back to someone there and turn things around... but I wouldn't count on it. That sounded like a nightmare.

They actually tried selling me a 3" teraflex lift installed for $2500 when I took my jeep into them for an alignment shortly after I bought it from them. I played stupid and asked for a printed itemized listing of the parts and labor. They had $ signs in their eyes and I never seen service rep move so fast. I knew right then they could be trouble.

Well, that was a few years ago. But just last month as I was driving near their locations my engine light came on and the engine was stuttering. So I dropped it off with them and they said that they'd start on it right away and call me the next day. I thought that was pretty cool and hoped whatever it was would be covered under warranty.

They called the next day... Jeep diagnoses said #5 was misfiring and that the following was required:

-Spark plugs they were asking $147.80 with labor. I think champion 4412's
sell for about $2 each so that's about $133 labor for a 15 - 20 min job.

-Fuel system cleaning... clean injectors, fuel filter replaced, and flush
something. cant remember what it was they'd be flushing (someone later said it was my wallet) $282.63

-Locking fuel cap $55 (since the original wasn't locking anymore) ... keyed to my ignition key adds another $50

-Diagnostic fee $95

-haz waste disposal of $40

I told them to go ahead with the fuel system cleaning (I didn't know how
to clean the injectors and I think the filter is located in the tank on my 04 tj).

I told them I'd do the plugs myself but they came back and said the $95
diagnosis fee would be waved if I had them do it... so I gave in to their
sales pitch and they will be doing the plugs too.

I'm very proud that I'm mechanically able to replace a fuel cap with a non locking one from their parts counter. So I saved about $70 there.

Total was $500 with tax - enough to convince me to buy my own code scanner that following weekend for future diagnostics instead of taking it to a dealer. But I question if they even dropped the tank to replace the fuel filter... my invoice shows D-CARB/INTAKCLNR/FIKIT. I think I may have paid $500 for carb cleaner and 6 spark plugs (oh, and labor).

anyways, I'm always leary of dealerships but your story about Airpark down right scares me.

- Ben

You don't replace the fuel filter in your Jeep, unless you do the pump at the same time. The fuel system service, if it's like ours, is a t-body service, injector flush, and decarb the combustion chamber. just fyi.

[xFallen]

Read my posts closely Barry...that is a major bone of contention here. They DID NOT diagnose it, EVEN when I offered to pay!

Worse still is the fact that the paperwork was destroyed, thus no paper trail. And like someone said, the dealer cannot make the call, but a Zone Manager can. Of course they talked with him on the fone and I wasn't present, I have no paperwork and neither do they. Guess it the Zone Managers fault...

Don, I suggest that perhaps you read my post a bit more closely. I understood the words posted in the original message rather clearly I thought.

You are taking one sentance out of context from a paragraph (and actually en entire post) and therefore skewing the meaning. I made a statements of fact, and they stand. What you are quoting has little to do with historical points but rather what can be or should be or should have been.

Here is the original paragraph in its entirety from my post.


More than likely the injector failure had zero to do with the supercharger, but they are within their right to diagnose it. They are not within their right to deny warranty on unrelated items without proper proof. Sounds like these ninnies couldn't be trusted to even do that.


Interpretation: They (the dealership) can perform a diagnosis to determine cause of failed injector. They cannot deny warranty on other even possibly related parts unless diagnosis demonstrates parts failed due to aftermarket parts. They cannot fail entire warranty in any case.



Barry

[xFallen]

WOW, sounds like I opened a can of worms!!!!!!! Sorry to hear about your misfortune...I don't know any body that every paid too much at airpark???? We would never let a customer out on a $2k profit deal??? The competition is fierce out there, sounds like you worked with a bad salesmen or YOU over negotiated your deal...I see that all the time???? Just do your research over the internet and go to the dealer armed with what you know, its that simple. The bad is i'm the only one left after 3 years, the others just come and go...no matter what dealer it is..its the same deal. Airpark can't be that bad, if it was I would not work there...plain and simple. I guarentee nobody in this club ever had a bad experience working with me. Thats ok if you want to bash my place of business, if you don't want to do business...exercise your right to go elsewhere.

Huck, you did too good of a job. Now cut that out. These poor defenseless sales people just can't bear the brunt of your mad keen negotiating skills. They apprently can't perform elementary math (ciphering for some of you out there :eek: ) under the pressure of your telephone negotiating skills and you need to cut them some slack. Next time just pay what they tell you to pay and be happy about it. They are not repsonsible for their actions. Take them some donuts too. :cool:


Barry

[DsrtJeeper]

You don't replace the fuel filter in your Jeep, unless you do the pump at the same time. The fuel system service, if it's like ours, is a t-body service, injector flush, and decarb the combustion chamber. just fyi.

You gotta love these new services. Power steering flushes, combustion chamber decarb, fuel injector flush. What a freakin joke! Everyone and their brother wants to sell my wife this crap on a PT Cruiser with 23,000 miles. They even tried to get her on a tranny flush! Cars have become so dependable that dealers are coming up with bogus services to keep the money coming in. I hear all the stories from my son and a buddy who both work for dealerships.

[wannabejeeper]

You gotta love these new services. Power steering flushes, combustion chamber decarb, fuel injector flush. What a freakin joke! Everyone and their brother wants to sell my wife this crap on a PT Cruiser with 23,000 miles. They even tried to get her on a tranny flush! Cars have become so dependable that dealers are coming up with bogus services to keep the money coming in. I hear all the stories from my son and a buddy who both work for dealerships.

:rolleyes: . So, what your saying is that your engine doesn't get carbon build up, your fluids don't get dirty, and maintenance is a rip off? Thanks, boy and all this time I was wasting time/money on oil changes and differential services! That being said, whoever tried to sell your wife those things at 23k was trying to pull one over on her.;)

[DsrtJeeper]

:rolleyes: . So, what your saying is that your engine doesn't get carbon build up, your fluids don't get dirty, and maintenance is a rip off? Thanks, boy and all this time I was wasting time/money on oil changes and differential services! That being said, whoever tried to sell your wife those things at 23k was trying to pull one over on her.;)

Did I say anything about routine maintenance? The manufacturers manual doesn't even recommend the services I listed other than the tranny flush at 60,000 miles. Why is that? Do you realize how many vehicles are on the road today with over 100,000 miles and have the original injectors, power steering fluid, and never been decarboned? I have a '96 Bronco here with nearly 200,000 miles on it that has never had any of these services and passes emissions with flying colors. It even has the original water pump and injectors! I've owned more high mileage vehicles than most and never did any of these services. Do you really think I'm alone in this? We won't even mention the fact that fluids are of much better quality than just ten years ago. Maybe I should rotate the air in my tires? :rolleyes:

[wannabejeeper]

I am not even going to get into the reasoning behind the maint. schedule with you since most won't understand. It does have to due with the pricing of the vehicle and what mfg's tell the gov't, kinda like the mpg sticker on the windshield. I am glad that you have never done services on your vehicles and they have lasted a long time, congratulations. But I guarentee you that if you take your motor apart you will have massive carbon build up in the combustion chamber, which will affect your performance. Your p/s fluid, I would imagine, does look a little dirty compared to new. Think about it, you change your oil b/c it's dirty and it's not able to do its job as well, why are any of the other fluids in your car any different.

True, not all of the services that are recommended are factory required, that's why we tell people that they are dealer recommended. Just b/c the manual doesn't mention these thing doesn't mean that it's not benificial to have done.

As with everything related to cars and their upkeep, everyone is entitled to their own belief, I as a former tech. take car of my Jeep the best way possible.

[RokNRich]

I bought my Jeep 2 years ago from airpark using the fleet/internet deparment. Payed invoice plus the incentives (-2K rebate, 0% financing), this was after getting jacked around by another dealer (had one coming, never showed up, how about another color, can't give you invoice on this other one though, etc.) For the life of me I can't remember who "sold" it to me, but he was recommended on the old site, maybe it was you Jason, just can't remember, needless to say I was 100% satisfied with the transaction.

I've never used the service department there due my living halfway across the state though, but it doesn't surprise me they would overcharge people. It also doesn't surprise they wouldn't warranty Dons jeep, based upon the pic's I've seen of it.

:)

[DsrtJeeper]

I am not even going to get into the reasoning behind the maint. schedule with you since most won't understand. It does have to due with the pricing of the vehicle and what mfg's tell the gov't, kinda like the mpg sticker on the windshield. I am glad that you have never done services on your vehicles and they have lasted a long time, congratulations. But I guarentee you that if you take your motor apart you will have massive carbon build up in the combustion chamber, which will affect your performance. Your p/s fluid, I would imagine, does look a little dirty compared to new. Think about it, you change your oil b/c it's dirty and it's not able to do its job as well, why are any of the other fluids in your car any different.

True, not all of the services that are recommended are factory required, that's why we tell people that they are dealer recommended. Just b/c the manual doesn't mention these thing doesn't mean that it's not benificial to have done.

As with everything related to cars and their upkeep, everyone is entitled to their own belief, I as a former tech. take car of my Jeep the best way possible.

I never said I don't believe in the maintenance schedule. I change my fluids religiously. I don't however fall for the services pushed by dealers that are not manufacturer recommended. Did I mention that I welcome you to run a compression test on my V-8? I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. ;)

The combustion in newer vehicles is so much cleaner today that decarboning should not be needed at low mileage. True that this is just my opinion. :)

[SavageSun4x4]

Don, I suggest that perhaps you read my post a bit more closely. I understood the words posted in the original message rather clearly I thought.

You are taking one sentance out of context from a paragraph (and actually en entire post) and therefore skewing the meaning. I made a statements of fact, and they stand. What you are quoting has little to do with historical points but rather what can be or should be or should have been.

Here is the original paragraph in its entirety from my post.



Interpretation: They (the dealership) can perform a diagnosis to determine cause of failed injector. They cannot deny warranty on other even possibly related parts unless diagnosis demonstrates parts failed due to aftermarket parts. They cannot fail entire warranty in any case.



Barry
:confused: :confused:

[SavageSun4x4]

UPDATE:
I sent Wannabejeeper and he checked my 7/70 warranty and found it to still be in place. That said its one less hit on AirPark. I only wish their business practices were up to ethical standards. Now perhaps the sales dept is. However, if they can not treat me well in the service dept then you won't get me in the sales dept, its just that simple.

[SavageSun4x4]

It also doesn't surprise they wouldn't warranty Dons jeep, based upon the pic's I've seen of it.

:)
Let me stress this: This is NOT an issue over warranty work. That has never been the issue. Far as I am concerned I would be happy to buy a car without a warranty because they are not worth the effort, nor do I trust the service dept to do proper work when its being warrantied.

For the record, since I have been buying mostl new cars, begining in 1964 I doubt if I have made more than 25 warranty calls.

When my couple of months old 78 Corvette threw a fan belt and had to be towed in and as a result of throwing a fan belt bent a push rod by over revving when the cruise control took off on its own. I paid for the all the parts except the cruise contol and did the work myself except to install the cruise control to insure it was done correctly and with the proper parts. I also asked for chevy to pay the tow carges, which interestingly they did not.

This happened on a lonely road about 2 am going thru the NE tip of Missouri. The tow bill was quite large since I was in the middle of nowhere. Chevy said I did not call or infor a Chevy dealer so they wouldn't pay it. Humm wasn't sure what dealer I should have called at 2 am in the middle of nowhere on a Sunday am.

Later, in talking to the dealer who sold me the Corvette, he had me send him the bill and I got a check from him. He just said he would take it up with Chevy. He was a stand guy, but he owned the dealership.

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

Don. glad to hear that your 7/70 wasn't voided. Sounds like the dealer you took it to was trying to take you..Hmmm:rolleyes:

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

Anyway long story made short. We love our new Rubicon. My wife likes the white color even though she would have liked to have the green one from AirPORK. We saved over $3200 from AirPORK's best deal ever and learned a good lesson. We have made it a point to stress the Negative side of Airpark whenever anyone asks us about our great new Jeep. Negative feedback is always remembered.

Jason... can you tell me the connection between the V-Rods on the floor and the neighbor Mr. Hatch?

I did just that, I went in there armed with more information and research than they knew what to do with. They didnt want to look at and didnt care what I had foun
d on my own.It was kind of sad that my wife had more knowledge of the Rubicon than the sales idiot Jeff did. This was the first new car we ever delt on that the sales idiot had to drive us around and off the lot first. For what its worth it was the first time we have ever been chaperoned on a test drive.

Mr Jeep Punk: Let me address the many issues you have with our store:

1.Your not telling all the details here, I don't know your situation but I can
tell that you are not telling all that happened...I bet there was a trade
here...HMM We would have tried to charge you over sticker on a ruby
to make $3200...And with our intelligent clients..thats impossible. I'm
going to guess your much like the other guy in the earlier post and you
did so much research you confused yourself and may have Over
negotiated. I see that more than anything out there.

2.Mr Hatch is nothing more than a good neighbor to us and we are glad he's
our neighbor!!! The bikes belong to our owners business partner, although
the orange v-rod is for sale.

3.Your right on your wife knowing more than a salesmen..Thats got to be
true!!! Typically if a salesmen knows less than the client, they send me
over to help out!!!

4.As far as the salesmen driving you around, I think that is the most curtiuos
thing to do for a client??? Would you want to walk 3 acres of cars, I
don't!!!

5.Its our insurance policy that a sales rep has to accompany a client on the
demo drive.

Jason

[Matt Sand]

I had similar problems and run arounds with airpark jeep. It took me storming into the owners office while he was in a meeting to get anything accomplished. I always got the excuse it's because your using your jeep,,, hmmmm you mean I am supposed to leave it in the garage and not use it. Next time try Barging into Coy's (owner) office,,, It worked for me.

[YGOHOME]

You don't replace the fuel filter in your Jeep, unless you do the pump at the same time. The fuel system service, if it's like ours, is a t-body service, injector flush, and decarb the combustion chamber. just fyi.
tb service=fancy name for gunk spray? how is a cumbustion chamber "decarbed"? does it involve more spray can work? injector flush? just currious why they would charge what they did if just the equiv of liquid clnr.. if im over simplifying it then let me know.

[Huck]

WOW, sounds like I opened a can of worms!!!!!!! Sorry to hear about your misfortune...I don't know any body that every paid too much at airpark???? We would never let a customer out on a $2k profit deal??? The competition is fierce out there, sounds like you worked with a bad salesmen or YOU over negotiated your deal...I see that all the time???? Just do your research over the internet and go to the dealer armed with what you know, its that simple. The bad is i'm the only one left after 3 years, the others just come and go...no matter what dealer it is..its the same deal. Airpark can't be that bad, if it was I would not work there...plain and simple. I guarentee nobody in this club ever had a bad experience working with me. Thats ok if you want to bash my place of business, if you don't want to do business...exercise your right to go elsewhere.


Sorry, but I didn't want to negotiate past what I was quoted on the original deal. The salesman came back with a quote that was higher than the quote that brought me in the door. It upset me. I don't like being lied to and I let both of the salesman know that. It was then, that we were told that Airpark's policy is not to sell to an upset buyer and that we should leave.

Like I said before, Jamie was able to get the same vehicle for less money over the phone. No hassles. That's two new Jeeps with no hassles from one dealer and no new Jeep from airpark with a ton of hassles. I just bought another Harley from a local dealer. No issues, no hassles and a simple cash transaction. All of the negotiations were handled prior to my arrival at the shop and I was out the door within 45 minutes. Shoot, we even had the kids running around the dealership while the sale took place

I understand you are happy with your job and Airpark. No issues with that. We are just two people, in Phx, that make sure people know about our experience. The folks I've run into have been on trail runs. While explaining our experience, they state that they know they over paid. Its not something I dreamed up. At least two are members of this club.

No worries Jason, I just don't like Airpark. With the title of the thread and my experience, I felt compelled to throw in my .03.

Barry, you cracked me up. Thanks for the attitude adjustment :)

[vwkaferman]

But I guarentee you that if you take your motor apart you will have massive carbon build up in the combustion chamber, which will affect your performance.

So send him to NAPA and buy a $5 can of Seafoam, and "decarbonize" it yourself? A LOT cheaper IMO, and probably does a better job. What a joke. If it's that bad, just do a few romps to redline, throw some fuel injector cleaner in there, guarantee you won't have massive amounts of carbon build up.

I would say as well, that if you're throwing 87 octane in your Jeep, in this heat, and it's pinging a bit here and there, then yeah, maybe there's some carbon build up. I put middle of the road gas in mine, and with 183,000 miles, I'm 100% positive I don't have this devistating carbon buildup.

Just more reason to do minor maintenance at home. There's no reason any of us can't do oil changes, sparkplugs, cap & rotor, sparkplug wires, etc.. at home and stop paying these criminals to rake us over coals. No good.

On that note, time to take the Jeep in to get the AC fixed, I can't do that myself! :)

James

[xFallen]

Sorry, but I didn't want to negotiate past what I was quoted on the original deal. The salesman came back with a quote that was higher than the quote that brought me in the door. It upset me. I don't like being lied to and I let both of the salesman know that. It was then, that we were told that Airpark's policy is not to sell to an upset buyer and that we should leave.

Like I said before, Jamie was able to get the same vehicle for less money over the phone. No hassles. That's two new Jeeps with no hassles from one dealer and no new Jeep from airpark with a ton of hassles. I just bought another Harley from a local dealer. No issues, no hassles and a simple cash transaction. All of the negotiations were handled prior to my arrival at the shop and I was out the door within 45 minutes. Shoot, we even had the kids running around the dealership while the sale took place

I understand you are happy with your job and Airpark. No issues with that. We are just two people, in Phx, that make sure people know about our experience. The folks I've run into have been on trail runs. While explaining our experience, they state that they know they over paid. Its not something I dreamed up. At least two are members of this club.

No worries Jason, I just don't like Airpark. With the title of the thread and my experience, I felt compelled to throw in my .03.

Barry, you cracked me up. Thanks for the attitude adjustment :)

Just so it is clear, you were in no way wrong, but were certainly wronged. It is not your fault if you negotiated a killer deal that was later reneg by a less than scrupulous salesperson. I think the way you and your fiance were treated is very low.

This sort of thing starts at the top. Saying there are few bad salespeople is a weak excuse and doesn't float given the rest of the practices observed first hand. The management is responsible as are the owners. They set the trend. To me that means the dealership should be avoided.


Barry

[Huck]

Barry, I read your first post after I had already replied to Jason's comments. Your post made me smile and I was serious about the attitude adjustment. I figured that if I wrote that "you put a smile on my face last night"-that a certain element may take the expression and turn it into something I wasn't meaning ;). You know how the joking can get. I truly appreciated what you had written and wanted you to know it.

I'm not upset with anyone, certainly not with Jason. You are correct though, how does one over negotiate an already negotiated price? That one just doesn't ring true and cracks me up when I think about it. When a deal is struck and a price is quoted, that should be the price. I understand the car buying process and have not had this issue with any of my other purchases.

I've relayed my experience and am satisfied with that.
Have a great day,
Huck

[JeepPunk]

Mr Jeep Punk: Let me address the many issues you have with our store:

1.Your not telling all the details here, I don't know your situation but I can
tell that you are not telling all that happened...I bet there was a trade
here...HMM We would have tried to charge you over sticker on a ruby
to make $3200...And with our intelligent clients..thats impossible. I'm
going to guess your much like the other guy in the earlier post and you
did so much research you confused yourself and may have Over
negotiated. I see that more than anything out there.

2.Mr Hatch is nothing more than a good neighbor to us and we are glad he's
our neighbor!!! The bikes belong to our owners business partner, although
the orange v-rod is for sale.

3.Your right on your wife knowing more than a salesmen..Thats got to be
true!!! Typically if a salesmen knows less than the client, they send me
over to help out!!!

4.As far as the salesmen driving you around, I think that is the most curtiuos
thing to do for a client??? Would you want to walk 3 acres of cars, I
don't!!!

5.Its our insurance policy that a sales rep has to accompany a client on the
demo drive.

Jason[/QUOTE]

#1 of course there is more to the story. Doesnt matter, we used the same trade, etc and still got the better deal.

#2 Cool, was just curious as we are Harley owners and visit HH too much. Harley people are a lot like Jeep people.

#3 Very true, if we remember right your name did come up but only to let us know that you have a "super-mod-jeep" and not to worry... Airpark will back it all the way.

#4 and #5 Went together, we walked to the jeep and then the salesman bounced it off the redline off the lot. Just personal exp. never had a salesperson go on the test drive with us any other place, state, etc other than Airpark. Understand, insurance can be a pain.

Its not a problem, and I was told to ask for you on another fourm as well. All of this was after I had delt with the monkeys up front. From what others have posted its not about you. I am sure your great to deal with and cut a lot of the B.S. with buyers. Our problem was with your collieague's up front and the "tantrum any toddler would have be proud of..." performed by George when he was forced to "sell" us a car instead of us taking his crap deal.

Its not about you, you have be referred here, and other sites as well. That speaks for you. Unfortunately Airpark's standards are not as high as yours.

Dave

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

No problem, I consider working with other sales people, like going to another dealer!!!! What I mean by that is I am an independent contractor???
I am...Airpark supply's what I need like a building, cars,a way to finance people, water etc....The experience I supply my clients with is night and day what other salepeople do with in the same building!!!! I have very good relationships with everyone in the store, except the other sales people!!!! Its ok I've been there with most of the management for a long time. So in a nutshell that gives me a long swing with what I can sell cars for upfront, no games. I just tell them what I need to do and its done, that easy!!! When I first started I didn't have that and what your explaining to me sounds somewhat familar..It just means when you called the other dealers, you delt with someone like me, if you walk in, you could be dealing with anyone. I am sorry you guys had just bad experience with our store. Ask for me next time, if there is one!!!


Jason

[joedokes28]

I bought my 2005 Rubicon at Airpark and I felt like I was treated fairly. I got a control number form a friend who works for DCX and Airpark honored the price. I have not been back there for service, or anywhere for that matter. I've done all the maintenance myself. For what it's worth, I bought my rubi from Jason's brother Mike.

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

At least you kept it in the family!!!!!

[joedokes28]

Does Mike still work there? Does he still drive a 5.0?

[Scrat]

Wow... Sounds worse than Lou Grubb (Now Power) Dodge and Avondale Dodge... Which is why I don't recomend either of those two anymore.... But my friend has had the best of luck with Bill Luke's service dept...

Cheers,
Lee

[wannabejeeper]

So send him to NAPA and buy a $5 can of Seafoam, and "decarbonize" it yourself? A LOT cheaper IMO, and probably does a better job. What a joke. If it's that bad, just do a few romps to redline, throw some fuel injector cleaner in there, guarantee you won't have massive amounts of carbon build up.

I would say as well, that if you're throwing 87 octane in your Jeep, in this heat, and it's pinging a bit here and there, then yeah, maybe there's some carbon build up. I put middle of the road gas in mine, and with 183,000 miles, I'm 100% positive I don't have this devistating carbon buildup.

Just more reason to do minor maintenance at home. There's no reason any of us can't do oil changes, sparkplugs, cap & rotor, sparkplug wires, etc.. at home and stop paying these criminals to rake us over coals. No good.

On that note, time to take the Jeep in to get the AC fixed, I can't do that myself! :)

James

I have always said if you CAN then do it yourself. The fact is is that most people are not mechanically inclined, that's why I am here. Sea foam works well from what I have heard, if done right. As far as the injector flush goes, unless you have the equipment, you can't do it.

[DsrtJeeper]

So send him to NAPA and buy a $5 can of Seafoam, and "decarbonize" it yourself? A LOT cheaper IMO, and probably does a better job. What a joke. If it's that bad, just do a few romps to redline, throw some fuel injector cleaner in there, guarantee you won't have massive amounts of carbon build up.

I would say as well, that if you're throwing 87 octane in your Jeep, in this heat, and it's pinging a bit here and there, then yeah, maybe there's some carbon build up. I put middle of the road gas in mine, and with 183,000 miles, I'm 100% positive I don't have this devistating carbon buildup.

Just more reason to do minor maintenance at home. There's no reason any of us can't do oil changes, sparkplugs, cap & rotor, sparkplug wires, etc.. at home and stop paying these criminals to rake us over coals. No good.

On that note, time to take the Jeep in to get the AC fixed, I can't do that myself! :)

James

A-men brutha! I was going to mention the Seafoam but I knew it would just get shot down as an inferior product.

Here's a good one for ya....add up the cost of all these services and what could you buy? :D

[wannabejeeper]

If you bought all of my services on a 4wd veh., it would be under $1k.

[SavageSun4x4]

Don. glad to hear that your 7/70 wasn't voided. Sounds like the dealer you took it to was trying to take you..Hmmm:rolleyes:
Yes, I posted on this here http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/showthread.php?t=13006&highlight=Screwed+Jeeper

They wanted to charge me over $1300 to replace the oil pan and Y pipe. Which kinda brings me up to where I am with all that:

$450 Y pipe w/3 cats
$120 Oil pan
$37 Oil pan gasket

$607 Total parts

Add in the oil filter and new oil for a oil change about $30 and a new Nth oil pan skid about $165 and my drive out is $772 in parts to bring my rig back to wheeling again.

For this job I would have just soon as had the dealer, AirPark have done it for me. I only assume AirPark would charge about the same as the other dealers estimate of $1380. But in order to have done that, step 1 is to get the my jeep in the shop, write an estimate and let me sign and drive home happy.

It has been a ***** getting the Y pipe and I had to wait on it after it was finally ordered. All told I spent several months pulling this all together and getting parts.

I don't have a good place to really work on the Jeep other than in my driveway and the last thing I want is engine oil spilling on me or worse, running down my driveway for me to clean up. Then I have to dispose of the waste, give me a friggin break, you do the work and call me when its done. Besides it is an easy job, in fact a dull one, I like to do fun stuff on my Jeep.

The reason I didn't let Brand B Jeep dealer do the work because they handed me to different estimates [by mistake] with two different total prices. I don't do business that way.

So here you go Jason, you got enough info here to make them look not only silly, but stupid also. And I wonder if your manager - owner will like losing a sale(s) of which you had in the bag and even worse, losing right at $1500 bucks in parts and labor because your service dept is corrupt, unethical, lazy and being run by JoeD Sheet the Ragman.

Matter of fact lets do some math:

$1500 R&R oil pan and Y pipe
$125 Diagonstic to ascertain bad cat
$750 R&R all 6 fuel injectors and clean/decarbon engne
$125 Diagonstic to ascertain bad fuel injector

$2500 Total in parts and labor in last 90 days

$???? Loss of sale of 07 Wrangler for wife

$????? Loss of future sales of Jeep products and parts from a guy and his wife who buy a new Jeep product on average of every 2 years for the past 17

$PRICELESS Losses and customer goodwill by having AirPark splashed all over the internet and in the Jeeping community.

[azshtr]

Not to defend anyone... but... when I bought my tj and wanted the lime green color Airpark had the right price but couldn't get the color. Avondale matched the price and thats where I went. Did Aiorpark try very hard to get it... who knows. When the same TJ blew a motor at 20K miles I took it to Airpark. Actually they (or jeep) sent a tow truck. Airpark diag the problem, ordered a motor from cali, had it installed and returned within 4 days. No questions or hassles about motor mount lift, body lift, sus lift etc. Although the mech who worked on it did break the cruise control and tried to tape it together. Discovered that going down the 51 and the cruise wouldn't release control. That was interesting. But they replaced the cruise control system and all is well. Nothing that cost me money but I was treated well.

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

Yeah my brother has the 5.0, he drives a toyota nova for now!!!! Goes to show you with all the mixed reports about dealers that anyone could have a good or bad experience at any of them. I believe that me and Eric have gone the extra mile for Don, there comes a time when the wrenches that be won't work on a super modifed rig...its a complete liability for the dealer. Thats when everything is out of our hands.


Jason

[T.C.'S TOY]

THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP DON,I SUGGEST EVERYONE FORGET ABOUT THERE JEEP SHOW,THOM (T.C.'S TOY):rolleyes:

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

Wow thom, I think thats harsh to boycott us??????? Sounds like a great idea, boycott a dealer that wants to promote the jeep lifestyle and promote this club????? Hmm that sounds pretty disrespectfull to me.:rolleyes: If you don't want to be a part of our show thats fine, don't come..we don't need negative people here anyway.

[SavageSun4x4]

I believe that me and Eric have gone the extra mile for Don, there comes a time when the wrenches that be won't work on a super modifed rig...its a complete liability for the dealer.
Jason

Extra mile Jason? How, when? And can you name anytime that I have ever asked anyone up there to do me a special favor? Not saying your are bad guys...

In the past two years I have had no warranty work performed there or at any other dealer.

I think I have only had one work order performed and it was code 306 that showed a misfire on cyl 6. My Jeep was in the shop less than 30 min, they replaced the #6 plug and NOTHING else and the bill was $160.00 +/-.

Before you talk about extra mile I suggest you go pull my service record up there. 99% of the time that I have been there I have been buying parts.

You can't work on a Super modified rig because its a liability for the dealer? What kind of liability? At no time have I ever asked any dealer to work on a modification or perform a mod on my Jeep.

As for the Supercharger: Don Davis, a MAJOR auto dealer in Dallas-Ft Worth http://www.dondavisautogroup.com/ installs the Avenger SC as a dealer installed option and covers the Jeep under warranty with no problems.

Again, so what that my Jeep is super modded.

So who runs your dealership some wrench down there?

Now if you want to go an Extra Mile, you sure got your chance here, but all I have heard is I can't do nothin!

I've said before and I am gonna say it again: If the dealer doesn't treat you right on the service floor they sure as hell won't treat you right on the sales floor.

In addition, it starts at the top. What we are seeing is the moral fiber of a corrupt dealership whose only concern is making a dollar and to hell with the customer.

What say you?

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

I completely disagree Don, we are not a curupt dealer. Our owner Coy sets the stage for one of the best run dealers in town. I talked to eric and he told you to call him if you had any issues with the other service writers. He was and is very willing to help despite all the negetivity that has been talked about here in this post. Eric never got called and he is my main guy in service that will help a guy out when the "others" are not willing to help. As far as the high prices are concerned..we are very competitive with the other 10 dealers in town. Dealers aren't cheap labor, i knew that before I started selling that and you definetly know that. They make their money in the service department and thats very well known, you can buy the parts and throw a wrenching party if one wants to save labor rate??? I am always willing to help a fellow jeeper.

Jason

[SavageSun4x4]

I completely disagree Don, we are not a curupt dealer. Our owner Coy sets the stage for one of the best run dealers in town. I talked to eric and he told you to call him if you had any issues with the other service writers. He was and is very willing to help despite all the negetivity that has been talked about here in this post. Eric never got called and he is my main guy in service that will help a guy out when the "others" are not willing to help. As far as the high prices are concerned..we are very competitive with the other 10 dealers in town. Dealers aren't cheap labor, i knew that before I started selling that and you definetly know that. They make their money in the service department and thats very well known, you can buy the parts and throw a wrenching party if one wants to save labor rate??? I am always willing to help a fellow jeeper.

Jason
Yes Eric did. However at that point I felt that, not only was it too late, but I didn't want Eric to get into any kind of trouble. The day I was there the service writer was involved, the mech and the Service manager and they placed a call to the Zone Manager. It was made clear, my business was not wanted, no diagnostic service, nothing, so I just left. Remember this is the second time I have been turned away.

Maybe I could have come to see you, or asked to see the HMFIC, but I did not, I just got in my Jeep and drove off. If the above folks do not represent the company and do not reflect the companies’ ethics then AirPark, REALLY has a problem on its hands.

First I would fire the Service manager, the service writer and the mech. You do not call the Zone Manager to solve your problems. That is shifting the responsibility outside the company, if they cannot make a decision fire them on the spot.

As I see it if I have to put up a fight to spend my money, then I am in the wrong place

As for $160 to change one spark plug, I paid the bill and made no comment about it. Certainly if AirPark thought it was fair then so be it. HOWEVER, since you brought it up, you just wander over and ask how much for a spark plug change on a 4.0L engine. I am laying down a $50 bill that says its not $160 for all 6. I suspect that it is less than $60. Was a simple mistake made on my bill, dunno, I just paid it and left. Yes, it seemed a bit high but who am I to argue? I know Jeep labor is exp.

So here is the deal: If a spark plug change on a 4.0L is more than $160 I owe you $50 bucks. If not, you owe me nothing, FAIR?

Finally, I didn’t open this can of worms. I have been mistreated by your dealership on 3 separate occasions. Yet, I have never complained to you or anyone else. So what do you call me…a loyal customer??

But after three times, I just crossed AirPark off my list. Additionally, and anyone here on this board can chime in, I have never poor mouthed AirPark, its employees or its business practices. I have kept it too myself.

Don’t forget that $50 bucks you can win…

[Gary]

WOW... and already viewed by nearly 1000 club members & guests.
I wonder if management will get involved?

[RickBeer]

WOW... and already viewed by nearly 1000 club members & guests.
I wonder if management will get involved?

Someone should

[AZG23]

I Our owner Coy sets the stage for one of the best run dealers in town. Jason


Must be why he hasnt called Jimmy back....:rolleyes:

[DsrtJeeper]

Must be why he hasnt called Jimmy back....:rolleyes:

Holy crap!!! There's more complaints? Does it ever end? :eek:

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

Don, what exactly do you hope all this chat on this thread resolves??? Do you want your money back??? Do you want me to fire my whole service dept??? Do I need to give a club discount in parts???? If this makes everyone feel better I can print this 50 page thread out and let my owner read it and give you a call back???? If you were overcharged, we could have resolved this 3 months ago when all this took place. Please give me some helpfull feedback...thankyou

Jason

[jr4asu]

I have a headache now after reading this thread... good luck to all of you! Now, I know why I kept my 84 CJ. It starts, runs, and passes emissions on the first try. Oh and I can work on it too!

[YGOHOME]

It should be AP mgmt who should be the ones thinking about how to remedy the situation... shouldnt be you jason. Don shouldnt have to worry about trying to fix the situation either. Thats their job. Thats what theyre getting paid to do. But i dont think there is anything Airpark can do to make things better. Except get better people in there as previously suggested by Don. That may sound extreme but honestly who would want to take their jeep into those turkeys after hearing how he was treated?

[FrenchChili]

Don unfortunently there are dushbags everywhere and I know the feeling of bad service. But Airpark isn't bad like u mentioned it. After all they have the highest CSI (customer satisfaction)from all Jeep/Chrysler dealerships. I think you had 3Xbad luck. What I don't understand is why go to the dealership to see Eric knowing HE would help and then end up talking to someone else....???...If I know I'm gonna get the service I expect from a specific person I'm not gonna talk to some random dude; and if he's not there maybe a little patience doesn't hurt. I sure hope that's not how you buy your Jeep parts. I bought loads of stuff from the same salesman at 4wheelparts 'till he quit. He was good but I don't shop there anymore so I don't waste my time with dushbags...I know since I tried 5 before I got to him. I don't stop untill I find someone I like and can trust...doesn't matter where, If I have a connection with that person that I am pleased with because HE/SHE provides the service I want, I stick with him/her.


Did I miss something??? I read all 5 pages twice.



I know there's a lot of BS excuses like not wanting to do injector 'cause of lift and tires....and them not doing the code. A modified rig can be a big liability. You said the manufacturer for your supercharger was huge and warrantied elsewhere, did you bring paperwork to validate that? Even so, what would happen if they somehow damage your supercharger(ex)??? They don't know who you are, they don't want a stupid lawsuit. They might perceive it as better lose a customer and some $ than paying $$$$$ if something goes wrong. I too am pissed for stupid things like that but a little slack should be given knowing there are good people working there, and caring.


Please send Jason names if that's what it takes. Whoever denies you without logical, reasonable/professional explaination, and proof of parts being related to each other during malfunction, in my opinion, should be removed from their position.


But please give it a last shot with Eric.

[LOWTECH]

Now I remember why I buy old iron and do all the maintance myself ........... this way I don't have to spend time writing.

[FrenchChili]

Writing makes you smarter:D

[LOWTECH]

Sorry even that won't help :( :( :( :(

[FrenchChili]

Sorry dude...didn't know the ice was kinda thin


peace

[tjjeepboy]

Long set of posts, but I'm glad that problems can be posted, and the air can be cleared on this board with out too much blood on the floor. Much better than other board that I have been a part of in the past. Hopefully if Airpark did do anything sketchy they wont do it again, and ill make my mind up on Airpark on my own. However, Ill will keep my eyes open when see them in person after reading this string. And as for the poster who took a shot at the hatch family/ Hacienda Harley shame on you. I went to school with his late son. His family lived less than a block from me, and they were nothing but nice.

[JeepPunk]

Long set of posts, but I'm glad that problems can be posted, and the air can be cleared on this board with out too much blood on the floor. Much better than other board that I have been a part of in the past. Hopefully if Airpark did do anything sketchy they wont do it again, and ill make my mind up on Airpark on my own. However, Ill will keep my eyes open when see them in person after reading this string. And as for the poster who took a shot at the hatch family/ Hacienda Harley shame on you. I went to school with his late son. His family lived less than a block from me, and they were nothing but nice.

Jason... can you tell me the connection between the V-Rods on the floor and the neighbor Mr. Hatch?

I dont really think I was shooting at them. I was just curious why the New Harleys on the floor of a Jeep dealership. I have two big twin bikes in my garage from Hacienda... yep add that up... thats over 50K from your buddy and his family. Plus every single weekend we walk in and pay the normal HD ($100.00) tax on merchandise. We are members of his dealership's HOG 97 club and support every cause that is put on by HH. If YOU tjjeepboy feel I was taking shots at him, your way off base.

Please feel free to let me know how or why this was offensive and considered taking shots at a family?

Dave

[Antman]

Long set of posts, but I'm glad that problems can be posted, and the air can be cleared on this board with out too much blood on the floor. Much better than other board that I have been a part of in the past. Hopefully if Airpark did do anything sketchy they wont do it again, and ill make my mind up on Airpark on my own. However, Ill will keep my eyes open when see them in person after reading this string. And as for the poster who took a shot at the hatch family/ Hacienda Harley shame on you. I went to school with his late son. His family lived less than a block from me, and they were nothing but nice.

Jason... can you tell me the connection between the V-Rods on the floor and the neighbor Mr. Hatch?

I dont really think I was shooting at them. I was just curious why the New Harleys on the floor of a Jeep dealership. I have two big twin bikes in my garage from Hacienda... yep add that up... thats over 50K from your buddy and his family. Plus every single weekend we walk in and pay the normal HD ($100.00) tax on merchandise. We are members of his dealership's HOG 97 club and support every cause that is put on by HH. If YOU tjjeepboy feel I was taking shots at him, your way off base.

Please feel free to let me know how or why this was offensive and considered taking shots at a family?

Dave

Man! I'm running outa popcorn here! ;)

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

Don, please post names here and what I can do to solve this problem...otherwise there is nothing more to say here.

P.S. Seems kind of strange with all the bashing that we never heard the name of the dealer who said we poor mouthed you and your rig and VOIDED your waranty????

Jason

[azshtr]

Don?

[SavageSun4x4]

Don, what exactly do you hope all this chat on this thread resolves??? Do you want your money back??? Do you want me to fire my whole service dept??? Do I need to give a club discount in parts???? If this makes everyone feel better I can print this 50 page thread out and let my owner read it and give you a call back???? If you were overcharged, we could have resolved this 3 months ago when all this took place. Please give me some helpfull feedback...thankyou

Jason

Jason, this post is for you:)

What thread resolves: So far it hasn?t resolved anything other than to let you know why I am not buying a Jeep from friend, wheeling buddy, forum member and good guy. Its brought out into the open the issues that caused me to stop doing business with AirPark. Lets identify them for all:

* Customer service as in customer treatment. Quite simply I pulled in with a problem and could not even get a [paid for] diagnostic. Simply, I was turned away and told by the service writer my Jeep had rock rails on it there for it was too modded. To do a diagnostic, it does not require the raising of the hood, just plug into the computer connection under the dash. Let me say it one more time, CUSTOMER SERVICE as in CUSTOMER TREATMENT!

Lets recap what its NOT:

* It is NOT about warranty service or repairs

* It is NOT about money or charges

Do I want money back?

* NO, I have no basis for asking for any money back, nor do I care, I cheerfully paid my bills down there with nary a complaint. Maybe sometimes I thought it was high and I received either an explanation or a price adjustment. I have NEVER said I was overcharged.

Do I want you to fire anyone?

* NO, I do not tell another company who to hire and who to fire. What I have done is reiterate my experiences. With 3 personnel, a service writer, mechanic and the service manager. If AirPark considers their performance to be of the highest quality, then so be it, but I am taking my business elsewhere. I will not be turned away at the service entrance like a cur dog then be jerked off by salespeople as I walk to my car. Its my opinion that is not how your run a business.

Do you need to give the club a discount on parts:

* I get one up there, because I felt the MSRP was too high as I was a regular customer. That said, it is a call that only you and AirPark can make, but if you/AP want to pimp yourself as the Jeepers dealership, then I would think that a discount on parts is in order, in my opinion.

You/AP have been planning on a Jeep show this coming Oct. I would suggest to you that you do not disappoint by charging AZVJC MSRP for parts, give poor service and jerk-off potential customers.

Can you imagine if someone attends and while there they want to drop off their Jeep to get some code diagnosed and are turned away, or go to pick up a part and be charged MSRP. IMO that would send a message very loud and clear, AP wants my business but only if I buy at MSRP and if I have a problem with my new Jeep, AP does not care.

Do I want you to print out this and give it to the HMFIC?

Not my call to make. Matter of fact in this saga, I have yet to make any demand. I have only related my perceptions of being mistreated as a customer, being rude to, and an organization that appears to have a mechanic be in charge of the dealership while the chain of command has to go outside the dealership for a decision.

That said, I have considered on several occasions to write this down and send it to: the Zone Manager, with CC to the Service Manager, service writer, owner, GM, and yourself.

Frame of reference:
Several years ago, I started a computer services and networking company. One of the things I believed was that I could charge high but still fair prices by adhering to 3 principals. SERVICE, SERVICE, and SERVICE. I treated each customer no matter how small or large as if they were important.

In closing I did not get excellent or even good service, instead I was kicked to the curb as if a cur dog had wandered into the service lane.

It IS NOT about money, warranty or pricing, its about me being treated as a valued customer.

I also know that if I buy a Jeep from my wheeling buddy, Jason, I better plan on taking my new 07 to another dealer for service because its not gonna happen at AP and as you said, it?s a different company, I cannot do anything about it.

[SavageSun4x4]

After all they have the highest CSI (customer satisfaction)from all Jeep/Chrysler dealerships...

What I don't understand is why go to the dealership to see Eric knowing HE would help and then end up talking to someone else....???..

Frenchy, read a little closer:D I answered these but I will recap.

You get high service marks when you destroy the paperwork of customers you think will not be happy, they did that to me twice, its an earlier post on this thread.:D

Eric is a great guy, but he is not always available and you are dead on! The only two times I have had problems is when Eric was not my service writer. Hindsight, says I should have just sat down and waited:(

[trailrunner58]

Unfortunately Don........these kind of experiences are becomming all to common. At some point in time business in general decided that customer service is not that important anymore. It started with self serve gas and has now progressed to automated customer service lines where you can't speak with a human. And now on a Saturday at Home Depot there are no checkout people.....you have to do it yourself. My phone rings off the hook with scam artists and my e-mail is filled with spam and more scams. Hell I have a boat that has been in the shop for 5 months for an engine rebuild and do you think the owner has ever returned on of my phone calls. It is hard to find a business that is honest......Thats why I appricieate some of the local shops that do business the old fashion way......they are willing to let their record speak for itself. The new business mentality is that there are plenty of people out there to screw!

I am speaking in general terms and my comments are not aimed at anyone in particular. Just business in this country in general.

I have better experiences with small business in general because they still care about their reputation.

[SavageSun4x4]

Unfortunately Don........these kind of experiences are becomming all to common. At some point in time business in general decided that customer service is not that important anymore. It started with self serve gas and has now progressed to automated customer service lines where you can't speak with a human. And now on a Saturday at Home Depot there are no checkout people.....you have to do it yourself. My phone rings off the hook with scam artists and my e-mail is filled with spam and more scams. Hell I have a boat that has been in the shop for 5 months for an engine rebuild and do you think the owner has ever returned on of my phone calls. It is hard to find a business that is honest......Thats why I appricieate some of the local shops that do business the old fashion way......they are willing to let their record speak for itself. The new business mentality is that there are plenty of people out there to screw!

I am speaking in general terms and my comments are not aimed at anyone in particular. Just business in this country in general.

I have better experiences with small business in general because they still care about their reputation.
You are dead on. I was being interviewed by Ft Worth City mag and was asked about our success and how we became the number one Computer services company so quickly. I gave them a simple two word answer...Customer Service.

[Rbear44]

Jason, my feelings are after reading this whole thread is that you should print this thread and give it to Coy. It is his responsibility to name names and do what needs to be done. I purchase my vehicles by how the service department is. On my truck purchases I followed the service manager when he changed dealers. That is how important I rate service. If this problem with the service department gets taken care of, let us know. I was planning on driving all the way up there to see you when I get ready for a new Jeep because I have wheeled with you but the service lasts a lot longer than the sale. Just my .02
Roy

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

I have already taken these steps to ensure the owner knows about this incident(s). I have printed this thread and given him a copy. I have also talked with the service folks involved and there are 2 sides to every story. The service I provide as a sales person starts after the sale!!! I understand that I can not help in every istance, but will certanly try to do what I can or get the right people involved with the situation.

P.S. Our csi is currently a 98%..the zone is 92%..our best score ever!!!
My 3mo and 12mo csi is 100%..my best score ever!!!!

I agree with folks that we should offer a discount program for the azvjc..more to follow

Jason

[Rbear44]

[QUOTE=Jdemonto]The service I provide as a sales person starts after the sale!!! I understand that I can not help in every istance, but will certanly try to do what I can or get the right people involved with the situation.

I beleive you completely and feel like you are an honest person.
I am glad that the owner knows the situation and hopefully will correct it.
I personally will not do business at Avondale Jeep due to the way I have been treated by their service department.
Roy

[My1stJeep]

Yes, but if he work orders are destroyed and teh customer never contacted (as per Don's example) then wouldn't that skew the CSI?

I think part of what has gotten off track is that Don simply wanted them to put the Jeep on the computer and let the computer tell him what was wrong. He was willing to pay for it.

The computer he wanted to hook it up to at the dealership would have talked with the computer in the Jeep, read the codes and said this is what is wrong. So far this is nothing that would have put the dealership at liability (I question the mechanics ability for not being able to see the difference).

Upon finding out what the codes meant, if Don so chose he could have asked the service guy if they could do the work. At this time depending on what it was, they would have been within their rights to say they could not work on it based on the supercharger for liability reasons.

The initial treatment of Don is what is the basis. Also since he was not asking for anything to be covered under warranty there was never a reason for the service guys to bring it up.

Again I have no problem with Jason, I sent my dad to him to buys his GC and my dad was very happy with the deal and service Jason was able to provide. However from the sounds of it I would not have much respect for the service crew, from this I will exlcude Eric as Don has said Eric was not the service guy and Jason has said he is a good guy as well as a couple others on this board. If I were to go there I would only give Eric a shot at it, as the rest seem to be of the wrong mind set for the job.

Just an FYI, not all Supercharger installs void warranties. Courtesy Chevy over on Camelback road installs superchargers on vehicles and it does not void the warranty.

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

Again I am not a service guy so the whole warranty aspect has been explained to me, if the dealer installs a supercharger and put warranty on it, it would show on the dealer connect web site as wanna be jeeper would know. Any dealer can add anything they wish and warranty it at that dealer.

On a side side we would like to gain business from the club members via parts
and the parts manager has added a 25% off list or msrp discount..my mentioning azvjc

Jason

[mingoglia]

I just wanted to say I've never bought anything from the Airpark sales department. I've also never went there for service. In fact I don't even know where Airpark is. Well, that's about all I have to say. Carry on.

:)

Mike

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

Airpark is located in North Scottsdale in the airpark!!!!!:D

[DsrtJeeper]

Again I am not a service guy so the whole warranty aspect has been explained to me, if the dealer installs a supercharger and put warranty on it, it would show on the dealer connect web site as wanna be jeeper would know. Any dealer can add anything they wish and warranty it at that dealer.

On a side side we would like to gain business from the club members via parts
and the parts manager has added a 25% off list or msrp discount..my mentioning azvjc

Jason

Jason;
You're obviously being a standup guy and the discount is greatly appreciated. Now get the powers that be off their arses and if they have to drive to Don's place; just do it!!! I realize there are two sides to everything, but in the end the customer must be happy. ;)

[AZG23]

Jimmys work order was torn up as well...he never got a call...your csi is seriously SKEWED bro...25% discount will cover the cost of gas...Ill shop closer to home.....

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

Brad, I can't expect you to spend $10.00 in gas to save $5.00 on a part..that would be kind of goofy????

Jason

[LOWTECH]

Why I will not read this thread any more - ZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[Jdemonto@Airpark Jeep Sales]

I think this one has ran its course!!!!



Jason

[cactuscatcher]

Haven't read the forum in many months but oddly enough I happened to be in the market recently for an unlimited and AP gave me what I thought was a very good price, I called around, shopped the errornet, and then stopped by 3 times and got a good quote as a cash buyer.
Coincidence had it that I happened to meet Fred and Cathy Moore on the golf course at Mirabel. Fred gave me his card and I gave him the sheet on the Unlimited we wanted, he called back in 15 minutes and his best price was just over $3k less than APs best price which was already very good.

Odd timing but FWIW Fred explained why he could do the deal at those numbers and in all fairness AP or any other dealer's sales manager can't do those type of deals.

On the plus side my TJ crawler has most of the factory frame gone, non- Chrysler axles, motor, trans, most of the body, and 38s on it and Moore's guy's serviced it for me and got me to an alignment shop that could actually get it tracking straight and I got zero greif about the massive amount of mods to it.

I would shop AP again if I could not work with Moore FWIW.

[hydrotoys]

I bought my jeep there. I don't think I'll buy another new car for many years. All dealers are approx the same, and there is no fixing it.

The service department has been okay.