Die Hard 2006-05-06

[xFallen]

The Gatekeeper on Die Hard.

Not bad...

Until it goes wrong...oops. :D

Wheelbase and a bit more width makes a difference

The big fall. It is hard to see a line through but it is there. Again, wheelbase, big tires, lockers and some width. No bypasses.

The next major obstacle

The rock garden that follows it

[Craig]

NIce pics Barry. I'll bet the gatekeeper left a mark!

[xFallen]

NIce pics Barry. I'll bet the gatekeeper left a mark!

Who can tell. :D

Falling in there was a drag but oh well.


Barry

[xFallen]

A few more pictures taken by one of the others in the group. This is the main fall on Die Hard. It was a blast and I am somewhat amazed I made it up with as little drama as I did. I was pretty pumped when I made it without having to pull rope again.

Trying to set up on the right line.

Managed not to fall in so far.

Trying to get up and over the ledge.

Hunting for traction. Belly pan is probably hung up in there somewhere.

Cool, made it.

By the way, this trail and Twisted were done without any sway bars of any kind. I much prefer without to running with sway bars. Even the serious off-camber stuff on this trail wasn't a big deal. I did not ever find a place where I was left thinking "Gee, a sway bar would be nice right about now.". I will probably put on one end or the other once the new suspension is built, but only if it is needed.

The front was reattached for the drive home.


Barry

[Renob]

By the way, this trail and Twisted were done without any sway bars of any kind. I much prefer without to running with sway bars. Even the serious off-camber stuff on this trail wasn't a big deal. I did not ever find a place where I was left thinking "Gee, a sway bar would be nice right about now.". I will probably put on one end or the other once the new suspension is built, but only if it is needed.
The front was reattached for the drive home.
Barry
This is how I run, never had any issues with it.

[tyota]

I run without any swaybars as well................but I've also got leaf's in the rear so that helps, but I couldn't imagine running with saybars anymore, but I know tj's are alitte different

[twstdtj]

By the way, this trail and Twisted were done without any sway bars of any kind. I much prefer without to running with sway bars. Even the serious off-camber stuff on this trail wasn't a big deal. I did not ever find a place where I was left thinking "Gee, a sway bar would be nice right about now.". I will probably put on one end or the other once the new suspension is built, but only if it is needed.

The front was reattached for the drive home.


Barry

This is how Ive been running too since I extended my wheelbase and I prefer it. The jeep still feels very stable, Until.............































































































Im on my side :D :D :eek:

[xFallen]

This is how Ive been running too since I extended my wheelbase and I prefer it. The jeep still feels very stable, Until.............

Im on my side :D :D :eek:

Yours seems to like to do that. :D

I was actually somewhat surprised, but I should not have been. I have inadvertantly run without sway bars before from all the tmie the sway bar bolts have broken from flex.

There are a couple of off-camber places in Die Hard that I have heard people comment on in the past. They look bad, but really were nothing.


Barry

[twstdtj]

Let me know when you decide to go again and if you want another rig I would be happy to go!!!

[xFallen]

Let me know when you decide to go again and if you want another rig I would be happy to go!!!

Cool. :cool: We'll put that extra wheelbase to use. There were a few places this weekend where I was really wishing I had it.


Barry

[desertfabmotors]

Swaybars do more than keeping vehicle stable. They will help to put the torque to the ground instead of body roll. My buggy is very stable without swaybar but it is even better with it. Where I notice the difference is on off camber climbs and my COG is alot lower than a TJ.
My opinion from experience is any vehicle four link with coils, coilovers ect. swaybar will benifit you more than hurt you. They do not limit your droop enough to worry. There is plenty.

[mingoglia]

Please don't allow this thread to turn into a sway bar vs no sway bar vs anti-rock. I don't think my sanity can stand another discussion about this. :) ;)

Mike

[xFallen]

Please don't allow this thread to turn into a sway bar vs no sway bar vs anti-rock. I don't think my sanity can stand another discussion about this. :) ;)

Mike

Word. :cool:

[Heinz57]

Word. :cool:

Again, looks like a blast, I sure wish I would have made it Sway Bar and all!:D

[xFallen]

Again, looks like a blast, I sure wish I would have made it Sway Bar and all!:D

Sorry, this was a "no sway bar only" run. :D

That was my first time on Die Hard. The 37" tires seemed small more often than not but really did just fine. No problems in the rock gardens at all.

Running through Twisted (especially without breaking the poor l'il Dana 30) was the kicker. :D


Barry

[Heinz57]

Sorry, this was a "no sway bar only" run. :D

That was my first time on Die Hard. The 37" tires seemed small more often than not but really did just fine. No problems in the rock gardens at all.

Running through Twisted (especially without breaking the poor l'il Dana 30) was the kicker. :D


Barry

I am impressed. The first time we ran Die Hard opening it I had a model 27 front and 30 rear. I too was fortunate not to break anything.:D

I have said many a time if you remember what you have for a drive train and drive accordingly you will be fine. Looks like you mastered this, so far.

Of course I am kidding about the axles. However ran Asylum and Skull Crusher with 9" and a 44 and was told there was no way without blowing up my junk.

[desertfabmotors]

Sorry, this was a "no sway bar only" run. :D

That was my first time on Die Hard. The 37" tires seemed small more often than not but really did just fine. No problems in the rock gardens at all.

Running through Twisted (especially without breaking the poor l'il Dana 30) was the kicker. :D


Barry


Tires are over rated;) Great job.
At the Jambo a few years ago there was a CJ that ran a D30 and broke around 4 axles on Die Hard Alone. He had spares but ran out by the end.

[xFallen]

I am impressed. The first time we ran Die Hard opening it I had a model 27 front and 30 rear. I too was fortunate not to break anything.:D

I have said many a time if you remember what you have for a drive train and drive accordingly you will be fine. Looks like you mastered this, so far.

Of course I am kidding about the axles. However ran Asylum and Skull Crusher with 9" and a 44 and was told there was no way without blowing up my junk.

What motivates me is the fact that I have to drive it home down I-17 and the 101. :D

The larger spline CrMo axles help I thnk, and trying to avoid getting bound up are the big things. I thought for sure I was going to break something on Lower Calamity -- I was bound in good. I think shock unloading is a big parts killer too. I really try not to do that if possible.


Barry

[xFallen]

Tires are over rated;) Great job.
At the Jambo a few years ago there was a CJ that ran a D30 and broke around 4 axles on Die Hard Alone. He had spares but ran out by the end.

Seriously I would rather have a bit more wheelbase than bigger tires, even if I had the axles for them. I can make up for it by getting the belly up flush with the frame. Soon enough on both counts. :D

I bet those were stock Spicer axles, right? I was breaking Spicer stub shafts almost literally every other trip out (not talking Terminators here, but more challenging trails) and it was really beginning to drag me down.

I changed to Alloy USA CrMo shafts stub to stub I picked up from Simon and ditched the Yukon 30 spline inners and haven't even spun a cap since. Maybe it is luck but whatever it is, I'll take it. The through hardening done by Alloy USA I think makes a difference too.


Barry

[Heybeerman]

I too was fortunate not to break anything.:D





Are you sure? I coulda swore you broke something up front:confused:

[Heinz57]

Are you sure? I coulda swore you broke something up front:confused:

I wasn't even there when it opened. The following week I did break a front long side axle, (D60 35Spline) cuz I can't drive and wedged the bjeeminy out of it.:eek:

[Wildcat455]

However ran Asylum and Skull Crusher with 9" and a 44 and was told there was no way without blowing up my junk.

The 44 didn't fare so well on either trail if I remember right. Which trail was it that I helped you wrench on your D44? I think it was Asylum, but I remember you breaking on Skull Crusher as well...

Either way, you are correct your junk didn't "Blow up" :D

[Simon]

44.... 9" and Asylum I did it.... no brakey:p

[Wildcat455]

44.... 9" and Asylum I did it.... no brakey:p

Lots of winching. :rolleyes:

[Heinz57]

The 44 didn't fare so well on either trail if I remember right. Which trail was it that I helped you wrench on your D44? I think it was Asylum, but I remember you breaking on Skull Crusher as well...

Either way, you are correct your junk didn't "Blow up" :D

It had to be Skull Crusher. The u joint actually lost the end of the cap. Needle and cover were in tact, although it was just a matter of time.
Never broke one on Asylum......... yet!

[Wildcat455]

It had to be Skull Crusher. The u joint actually lost the end of the cap. Needle and cover were in tact, although it was just a matter of time.
Never broke one on Asylum......... yet!

Could have even been a different trail, Hammers? I just kind of remember it being a "desert trail". No matter, really. Funny how long ago some of that stuff seems now...

[Simon]

Lots of winching. :rolleyes:
YA the last waterfall!

[Wildcat455]

YA the last waterfall!

Hehehe!!

Not exactly the reaction I was fishing for!

Cole, you're either too level headed, or you know me too well...:D

[Simon]

Hehehe!!

Not exactly the reaction I was fishing for!

Cole, you're either too level headed, or you know me too well...:D
I would say I know you too well but Simon, Barry and Dsrtjeepr would have WAY to much fun with that!!:D

[DsrtJeeper]

I would say I know you too well but Simon, Barry and Dsrtjeepr would have WAY to much fun with that!!:D

Hey; I resemble that remark! :D

[XJ Un-Limited]

Please don't allow this thread to turn into a sway bar vs no sway bar vs anti-rock. I don't think my sanity can stand another discussion about this. :) ;)

Mike

I can see it now, trail ratings sub-divided into sway/no sway/anti-rock bars. "Sorry so-and-so, but you can't come with us, you have sway bars, this an anti-rock run." :eek: :D

[jason]

nothing to add other than the fact that your the hardest wheeler i know barry. :D


wow! truly amazing





strong work man. strong work :)

[Symon623]

This is a tribute to the driver and spotter.....good job. I've had some good luck along the way myself. I call it luck cos of my love for the skinny pedal. I've run a front 44 with stock chevy outers for years and only broken an outer on each side. Haven't done Twisted or Asylum but a few other 4+ rated trails around and survived. I attribute that to my spotters.

[xFallen]

nothing to add other than the fact that your the hardest wheeler i know barry. :D

Well then all I can say is you need to get out more. :rolleyes: :D


wow! truly amazing

strong work man. strong work :)

I dunno, not really. Lots have run DH in mildly built Jeeps according to what I hear anyway. My friend Andrew did it in his stretched wheelbase YJ on 39s. I guess he's built up a bit more than mine but we usually run similar trails.

I had fun and it was rewarding making it through given with what I had to work with.


Barry

[Heinz57]

This is a tribute to the driver and spotter.....good job. I've had some good luck along the way myself. I call it luck cos of my love for the skinny pedal. I've run a front 44 with stock chevy outers for years and only broken an outer on each side. Haven't done Twisted or Asylum but a few other 4+ rated trails around and survived. I attribute that to my spotters.

Spotter, u use a spotter, riiiight. When you run the tires you run you never get enough traction to break, that combined with high gears and spinning the tires regularly is the main reason you are not breaking more often. That being said if you have a good spotter, know when to use the winch, take the most traveled lines and drive understanding your equipment well then you will be able to milk a smaller axle through most of the trails in and around here. This is why Barry and the likes are able to handle these trails.

[Symon623]

Spotter, u use a spotter, riiiight. When you run the tires you run you never get enough traction to break, that combined with high gears and spinning the tires regularly is the main reason you are not breaking more often.

As I've said before, I'd rather spin then break......You have valid points......And I atribute all of them to helping me not break. Except for the spotter part. I never would've made Skull Crusher in one piece without Kerry spottin me and using my winch.

Not all of us are Buggy Gods on unlimited budgets like you.:D

And for the record YES I am Jealous.

[Heinz57]

Not all of us are Buggy Gods on unlimited budgets like you.:D

And for the record YES I am Jealous.[/QUOTE]

Hey, no room for that junk around here. If you look closely at my HOJ (hunk o junk) you will see all kinds of budget work. And if you look closely I was complimenting your driving and how it has attributed your rig to hold up so well. I am a firm believer that if you have lockers, driving ability and four tires you can run any trail out there. You have proved it as well as Barry (not me). Die Hard is a great test for all rigs but the key is you have to enjoy what you are doing!!!!!

Barry

[desertfabmotors]

Not all of us are Buggy Gods on unlimited budgets like you.:D

And for the record YES I am Jealous.[/QUOTE]


What is a Buggy God?:confused:
What is a Unlimited Budget?:confused:

:D

[Wildcat455]

When you run the tires you run you never get enough traction to break, you will be able to milk a smaller axle through most of the trails in and around here. This is why Barry and the likes are able to handle these trails.

if you look closely I was complimenting your driving and how it has attributed your rig to hold up so well.

Geez, Buggy God, I'm having difficulty finding the compliment in your condescending tone here. How close do we have to look? Is this going to require a microscope?

You used to be such a nice guy... :D

[Wildcat455]

What is a Buggy God?:confused:
What is a Unlimited Budget?:confused:

:D

A buggy god would be Barry... By Sy's definition, anyway.

Unlimited Budget would be what Barry (The Buggy God) spends on wheelin' and his rig... By Sy's definition, anyway.

:D

[Symon623]

Thanks for the compliments Barry...I think.:D I always have fun wheelin but with a stock 44 front and tryin to follow guys with D60's makes me stress a little mostly cos I hate holdin up traffic. No matter what the break.....Even a quad intake manifold. Or a steering column....How much do I owe Bill?:p

Todd; Buggy Gods are the guys that are summonsed to be the first to try a new line or 5+ trail. Or the guys who can drive obstacles the rest of us have to wiinch break or avoid. (Including trailers) And the budget thing? Well my budget is thin but I try.....So unlimited to me would be people in a position to have the "Good" stuff. Not necessarily "Bling" either.:cool:

So yea...I'm just jealous.

That's Sy's definition!!!!;)

[Wildcat455]

How much do I owe Bill?:p



You don't owe me a dime.

The Treasurer would like to see your $10.00 "Donation" I'm sure... (2Breaks/trail holdups @ $5.00 each) Strictly voluntary, of course...

[Symon623]

You don't owe me a dime.

The Treasurer would like to see your $10.00 "Donation" I'm sure... (2Breaks/trail holdups @ $5.00 each) Strictly voluntary, of course...

I didn't ask how much I owe YOU...... just how much I owe!:rolleyes:

Since you were the only one bring it up? I suppose breakin on the trailer doesn't count?:D Or how about Daniel? His quad frame cracked and Kerry had to weld it up too?;)

[jpcrawleram]

Barry Im only running 38's so not much bigger than yours. What really helped me was 102'' wheelbase and a few extra inches wide. But also look what happened I got the rock stuck in the wheelwell and busted the hub. I do think it was a nice show driving the last feild 3 wheel motion :).

[xFallen]

Barry Im only running 38's so not much bigger than yours. What really helped me was 102'' wheelbase and a few extra inches wide. But also look what happened I got the rock stuck in the wheelwell and busted the hub. I do think it was a nice show driving the last feild 3 wheel motion :).

Three wheeling through the boulder fields and up that one big climb was a good trick. I was happy to wheel them without a spotter, except that first part. No question you need all four wheels turning on that trail.

No matter how you cut it, I call it fun. :D


Barry

[Griswold]

First time I ran DH was in a civic hatchback. Yeah the front was locked but the butt was draggin.:rolleyes:

[SHNIPE]

BTG = BUGGY GODS i picked up the BTG video from Nick today and its freakin amazing to see what those guys do! Climbing the unclimbable!

[xFallen]

First time I ran DH was in a civic hatchback. Yeah the front was locked but the butt was draggin.:rolleyes:

That's because you're a CVCC God Brian.


Barry

[Griswold]

Barry, I have some lo-pro tube fenders all worked out in my head and as soon as I experiment on my rig I will be ready for yours. One piece from fender to fender around the front of the rig.

[xFallen]

Barry, I have some lo-pro tube fenders all worked out in my head and as soon as I experiment on my rig I will be ready for yours. One piece from fender to fender around the front of the rig.

Dang! Way cool.

But, I should update you...I may not require them. :eek: PM coming your way.



Barry

[Wildcat455]

I didn't ask how much I owe YOU...... just how much I owe!:rolleyes:

Since you were the only one bring it up? I suppose breakin on the trailer doesn't count?:D Or how about Daniel? His quad frame cracked and Kerry had to weld it up too?;)



Hey, dumbasss, go back and read what you posted: :rolleyes:

How much do I owe Bill?:p

I didn't break on any ARC run up there. I broke wheelin' by myself. But I have nooo problem chipping in my $5.00... I'm not gonna whine about it like a little girl with sand in her ginny.

Ohh, and the trailer thing is played out... It was funny when Barry said it a month ago.:rolleyes:

Is that the best you can do, Sy? Picking on Daniel, what is he, 15? He didn't delay the trail for 2 hours, either!

Fawk, if you're not in the "Spirit" of what the money is all about, keep your lousy $10.00. Christ.

[SHNIPE]

wait you guys actually charge for time held up no the trail :O oh snaps son! :D

[Symon623]

Hey, dumbasss, go back and read what you posted: :rolleyes:



I didn't break on any ARC run up there. I broke wheelin' by myself. But I have nooo problem chipping in my $5.00... I'm not gonna whine about it like a little girl with sand in her ginny.

Ohh, and the trailer thing is played out... It was funny when Barry said it a month ago.:rolleyes:

Is that the best you can do, Sy? Picking on Daniel, what is he, 15? He didn't delay the trail for 2 hours, either!

Fawk, if you're not in the "Spirit" of what the money is all about, keep your lousy $10.00. Christ.


It's all in fun Bill.....You of all people should know my grammer is not the greatest. I forgot a comma.

Don't know why your so bent? I told you none of this is a bid deal, Including the $. Just flippin s@#$ like everyone else here.

[xFallen]

wait you guys actually charge for time held up no the trail :O oh snaps son! :D

Oh, that's only the stuff they talk about in public. You should see what they REALLY have to do. Very scary... :eek:


:D

[Symon623]

wait you guys actually charge for time held up no the trail :O oh snaps son! :D

We just have fun with it, Strictly voluntary. $5 per breakdown for a period of time I don't recall? or Winch with a $25 ceiling? Mostly for s!@# flippin and a little fund raisin for the club. Of course there's always more crap goin around if you need a welder or ? Each run usually costs me $10. Bad driving habits?

[SHNIPE]

LOL thats great. I better never wheel with you guys cause on those trails, ill owe you guys $920349283483.90 :D

[Wildcat455]

wait you guys actually charge for time held up no the trail :O oh snaps son! :D

Damn straight. We're here to wheel and have fun, not wait on yer sorry broke asss to maintain yer vehicle! That's what begging back at camp for help is for!
Hehehe! J/K! :D

Like Sy said, The club uses it as a way to generate "Extra" revenue for some of the parties we throw and other important stuff... (Land Use, etc.) Dues doesn't seem to cover it anymore 'cuz we livin' outside our means! :D

It's actually a $20.00 ceiling for the weekend or trip, just in case someone is having a Reeeally bad trip.
It all comes back to everyone who participates one way or another. And it is allot of fun.

And As Xfallen said, there's stuff we get into that's best left off the board...

Sooo, I have absolutely noo Idea where this picture came from :rolleyes:

http://i1.tinypic.com/xp58np.jpg

[DsrtJeeper]

Damn straight. We're here to wheel and have fun, not wait on yer sorry broke asss to maintain yer vehicle! That's what begging back at camp for help is for!
Hehehe! J/K! :D

Like Sy said, The club uses it as a way to generate "Extra" revenue for some of the parties we throw and other important stuff... (Land Use, etc.) Dues doesn't seem to cover it anymore 'cuz we livin' outside our means! :D

It's actually a $20.00 ceiling for the weekend or trip, just in case someone is having a Reeeally bad trip.
It all comes back to everyone who participates one way or another. And it is allot of fun.

And As Xfallen said, there's stuff we get into that's best left off the board...

Sooo, I have absolutely noo Idea where this picture came from :rolleyes:

http://i1.tinypic.com/xp58np.jpg

LOL!!! Do we dare ask? Is that Bill Shueller? :D

[Symon623]

Damn straight. We're here to wheel and have fun, not wait on yer sorry broke asss to maintain yer vehicle! That's what begging back at camp for help is for!
Hehehe! J/K! :D

Like Sy said, The club uses it as a way to generate "Extra" revenue for some of the parties we throw and other important stuff... (Land Use, etc.) Dues doesn't seem to cover it anymore 'cuz we livin' outside our means! :D

It's actually a $20.00 ceiling for the weekend or trip, just in case someone is having a Reeeally bad trip.
It all comes back to everyone who participates one way or another. And it is allot of fun.

And As Xfallen said, there's stuff we get into that's best left off the board...

Sooo, I have absolutely noo Idea where this picture came from :rolleyes:

http://i1.tinypic.com/xp58np.jpg


Holy S!@# Bill, I forgot about those incriminating pics.......Thats funny there.

[Wildcat455]

LOL!!! Do we dare ask? Is that Bill Shueller? :D

Why? :rolleyes: You think he's a Secksay Beast?!! :eek:

[twstdtj]

ARC Where men are men and sheep are scared!!!!!!! :eek:

J/K you guys kill me!! :D :D

[DsrtJeeper]

Why? :rolleyes: You think he's a Secksay Beast?!! :eek:

I don't know why but I could swear I've seen that pic before. Maybe at Bill's office? That looks like Justin behind him and looks like Bill S. motorhome in the background. :confused:

Secksay? No.

Beast? Yeah. Especially behind the wheel. That guy can wheel. ;)

[Craig]

LOL!!! Do we dare ask? Is that Bill Shueller? :D

Close Eric. But we must give proper credit where its due. Thats Bill Schueler. And I must say... He's got a lovely set of coconuts <puke> . :D

Mish, why did you have to put us through this horror again? :eek:

[DsrtJeeper]

Close Eric. But we must give proper credit where its due. Thats Bill Schueler. And I must say... He's got a lovely set of coconuts <puke> . :D

Mish, why did you have to put us through this horror again? :eek:

Last time I saw him; he had lost alot of weight and his coconuts were all but gone. :D

[Heinz57]

Geez, Buggy God, I'm having difficulty finding the compliment in your condescending tone here. How close do we have to look? Is this going to require a microscope?

No Just reading glasses:D

You used to be such a nice guy... :D

Still am a nice guy see previous response:D

[Heinz57]

A buggy god would be Barry... By Sy's definition, anyway.

Unlimited Budget would be what Barry (The Buggy God) spends on wheelin' and his rig... By Sy's definition, anyway.

:D

Single life is the only way I get away with it:D :D

[Symon623]

Single life is the only way I get away with it:D :D

Unless you have a significant other who supports the disease...ooops I mean hobby.

We all know you have someone in your life Barry.....And you spoil her to no end. Good for you. She'll be hard pressed to find a guy like her dad.

[Craig]

Unless you have a significant other who supports the disease...ooops I mean hobby.

I don't think that "other" exists Sy!

[Heinz57]

I don't think that "other" exists Sy!
OMG

[Symon623]

I don't think that "other" exists Sy!

For me it does....She loves goin out in the Jeep. She enjoys the trail better then the rocks but she'll go do that too. She spent 2 days with us on Skull Crusher, Hikin out and back in, gettin rained on bla, bla, Bla. She likes adventures. Thei swas after other females in camp suggested she stay with them. I could go on but Barry is already gonna get me for this one