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Linda
05-04-2006, 07:16 AM
I was thinking that this might be an interesting excerise.

Let's make a list of all the 4x4 trails that have been closed in Arizona in the last 10 years, what type of trails they were, and why they were closed.

I'll start.

Trail Name: Silly Mountain Trail
Type of Trail: A short, steep, loose rock trail with a rating of 3.0 (maybe).
Why it was closed: City growth.

JamesT
05-04-2006, 07:23 AM
San Tan mountains
All kinds of trails
I don't know why they closed, or if it is within the 10 years (I believe it is).

Linda
05-04-2006, 07:32 AM
San Tan mountains
All kinds of trails
I don't know why they closed, or if it is within the 10 years (I believe it is).
The San Tans were purchased to develop County Park, for Maricopa County, even though the land is in Pinal County. The original goal was to turn it into an equestrian park. The work started on that about 10 years ago.

DFRacing
05-04-2006, 08:34 AM
I was thinking that this might be an interesting excerise.

Let's make a list of all the 4x4 trails that have been closed in Arizona in the last 10 years, what type of trails they were, and why they were closed.

I'll start.

Trail Name: Silly Mountain Trail
Type of Trail: A short, steep, loose rock trail with a rating of 3.0 (maybe).
Why it was closed: City growth.

Personally was glad this one was closed, it was just a road to the top with hardly any room to turn around. It has a section that will catch your attention, which there were a few rigs that had some bad rolls to the bottom.
It was more of a party spot for the idiots.


PS Linda check your PM's I PM"d about the ASA ramp

Barry@4Wheeler's Supply
05-04-2006, 08:47 AM
Recently they closed Armegeddon and 6th day. Also Judgment Day in Florence was closed.

Worried I believe about turtles in these areas. If I am not mistaken there is some water puddles in these areas.

xFallen
05-04-2006, 10:00 AM
Recently they closed Armegeddon and 6th day. Also Judgment Day in Florence was closed.

Worried I believe about turtles in these areas. If I am not mistaken there is some water puddles in these areas.

Is there Judgement Day in FJ? Did not know. Or was that a typo and you meant Table Mesa?


Barry

VIVIsectI
05-04-2006, 10:15 AM
FR 42 around Bartlett Lake still closed due to fire damage?

Sedona Jeep School
05-04-2006, 11:23 AM
Echo Canyon--2.5--reason: "It was part of the Amendment 12 plan" :confused:

Brins Mesa--3.0+--Area was designated as wilderness

Pipeline, east side--3.5--New residents didn't like 4x4's near their neighborhood.

...that is just to name a few...

xFallen
05-04-2006, 12:04 PM
Pipeline, east side--3.5--New residents didn't like 4x4's near their neighborhood.

...that is just to name a few...

That one is the one that is going to get us eventually anyway, I fear. The FJ and TM areas both have new home construction encroaching that general direction even if it seems a ways off. White Tanks is heading the same way now and is not so far off, and it will happen eventually.

Who knows when eventually is on the calendar.


Barry

David C
05-04-2006, 02:29 PM
Lower Salt River. This was not so much a trail per say as it was a 4x4 recreation area. The area around Blue Point bridge used to be a great place to take the 4x4 and ATV's. We would back down to the water's edge and park and play in the water and take turns on the ATV and banter with the tubers floating by. Some days it was hard to find an open spot to park. I remember my friends black labrador, Shelby, playing fetch with a water-logged chunk of wood. It was so heavy we could toss it maybe 5 feet into the river, but that dog would leap from the back of the truck into the water, submerge with the 'stick' and come up with that thing somehow locked in his mouth and then swim it back against the current, drag it onto the shore, spray us all shaking the water off and jump back into the truck ready to go again! I have lots of great memories from there. Competition Hill was on the south side of the river and was a challenging climb. It became a major erosion problem and is actually completely closed to motor vehicles now. The whole area was transformed with pavement, picnic tables and ramadas, rest rooms and charcoal grills and all areas outside the paved rec sites became closed to motor vehicles. And they added the pay booths to charge for parking. I'm not sure the specific reasons for closure but probably the standard erosion/environmental damage issues, safety reasons due to ATV accidents and underage drinking most likely. I remember the Sherriffs would always station someone on the hill with binoculars and ATV patrols would comb the line of trucks issuing citations for undrerage drinking and for having any tire touch the water. It went from totally free and open access to totally controlled and restricted family fun almost overnight. I have mixed feelings on the subject. I'm not saying it was the wrong thing to do, but I have not gone back to that area since the changes. 4 wheeling is no longer an option at the lower Salt river. There's no more ATV accidents but I have read about 7 or 8 drownings, at least, since the changes. I sometimes go to the Coon Bluff area downstream aways, but I do miss tailgating out at the bridge.

Wildcat455
05-04-2006, 03:03 PM
Recently they closed Armegeddon and 6th day. Also Judgment Day in Florence was closed.

Worried I believe about turtles in these areas. If I am not mistaken there is some water puddles in these areas.

Barry was hitting the crack pipe again for lunch.:rolleyes:
He meant Jawbreaker in FJ. :D

Barry@4Wheeler's Supply
05-04-2006, 03:09 PM
Barry was hitting the crack pipe again for lunch.:rolleyes:
He meant Jawbreaker in FJ. :D
yeah, that's right, j something or another.

My1stJeep
05-04-2006, 03:12 PM
The North end of the White Tanks had a large section closed. No homes real close,but some sort of construction going on back there, but no signs. I have no idea why it was closed.

South end is probably only months away. Most likely won't be closed due to 4 wheeling, it will be closed due to shooting. Was there last weekend and sounded like a war zone, from what I saw none probably had STL permits and none of them probably have any clue target shooting is not allowed there.

Wildcat455
05-04-2006, 03:23 PM
The North end of the White Tanks had a large section closed. No homes real close,but some sort of construction going on back there, but no signs. I have no idea why it was closed.

South end is probably only months away. Most likely won't be closed due to 4 wheeling, it will be closed due to shooting. Was there last weekend and sounded like a war zone, from what I saw none probably had STL permits and none of them probably have any clue target shooting is not allowed there.

Actually, they have sold off portions of the South end for development, near the Verrado development, and Watkins Rd.

FrenchChili
05-04-2006, 03:34 PM
The North end of the White Tanks had a large section closed. No homes real close,but some sort of construction going on back there, but no signs. I have no idea why it was closed.

South end is probably only months away. Most likely won't be closed due to 4 wheeling, it will be closed due to shooting. Was there last weekend and sounded like a war zone, from what I saw none probably had STL permits and none of them probably have any clue target shooting is not allowed there.

What does SLT stand for?

k7mto
05-04-2006, 03:41 PM
STL = State Trust Land

Hackberry Creek (aka Powerline Trail), Superior - not yet closed but slated for closure due to land swap to private Copper Mining company.

For those who haven't been there, I'd advise running this trail before it's gone.

Wildcat455
05-04-2006, 03:43 PM
What does SLT stand for?

That, Neal, would stand for a dislexic reader who can't speel fer sheet!!































































Or, It's a trim package for Dodge pickups. :cool:


:D

Edit: He fixed it before you could finish posting, obviously, that's why you look like a 'Tard now... :D

k7mto
05-04-2006, 03:46 PM
Doh :) fixed it above

k7mto
05-04-2006, 03:52 PM
Not the first time I've put my foot in my mouth and surely not the last :)

highjeeps
05-04-2006, 05:24 PM
Personally was glad this one was closed, it was just a road to the top with hardly any room to turn around. It has a section that will catch your attention, which there were a few rigs that had some bad rolls to the bottom.
It was more of a party spot for the idiots.

What I liked about Silly Mountain is it was so close by. You could drive to it, have a little fun going up the steep climb, and be back home within an hour.

1BLKJP
05-04-2006, 05:24 PM
Well Upper Raw Deal is virtually useless any longer since the mining company was given rights to use that land from the feds. I however have no idea how long ago that happened.

desertdawg
05-04-2006, 06:00 PM
Competition Hill was on the south side of the river and was a challenging climb. It became a major erosion problem and is actually completely closed to motor vehicles now.

Competition Hill! :cool: That brings back some memories from High School when we would ditch school and go down to the river. My buddy had a Ram Charger and tried going up that hill several times (He never made it). It was a blast just hanging out and watching all the rigs trying to get up that hill.

Linda
05-05-2006, 04:51 PM
Hmm... I guess there are 'thousands of miles of trails' being lost in Arizona.
I'll post a question to see how many trails have been opened in the last 10 years. That should be interesting.

1BLKJP
05-08-2006, 04:15 PM
Hmm... I guess there are 'thousands of miles of trails' being lost in Arizona.
I'll post a question to see how many trails have been opened in the last 10 years. That should be interesting.

Linda, don't rightly see where your exercise from either thread is leading to yet, but it kind of seems to be stating we should be happy with what we have? This board is not a very fair place to ask if trails have been closed or not. A lot of these trails that have been closed in the past 10 years a lot of us have probably never heard of before. A lot of the more experienced wheelers that have been in Phoenix wheelin with your baseline of ten years also probably don't frequent this board.

xFallen
05-08-2006, 04:44 PM
Linda, don't rightly see where your exercise from either thread is leading to yet, but it kind of seems to be stating we should be happy with what we have? This board is not a very fair place to ask if trails have been closed or not. A lot of these trails that have been closed in the past 10 years a lot of us have probably never heard of before. A lot of the more experienced wheelers that have been in Phoenix wheelin with your baseline of ten years also probably don't frequent this board.

I wasn't even going to chime in but that was precisely my thought when I saw these. No conclusions relating to how much has been opened or clsoed can come from this very small and non-scientific sample.

One would be better off starting at the actual sources -- BLM, USFS, Parks and the State. A lot of miles of trails have been closed with little in the way of new trails opened, as one might reasonably expect. Most of the 4.0 and above trails are established just not frequently used or not used for a very long time. They usually just get closed.

One trail mentioned as opened recently has been on USGS maps for many years. So, is that a new trail or not? I would argue not, just new to a current generation. It is a 4.5 trail so 97% of the people on this board would not recognize it as a route, even though it is on the map. Not a slam, just making a point. Most people want to see double track before they think it is a trail.

Compare that to the countless trails closed (rightly or wrongly) under the guise of wildlife preservation, cultural preservation and other schemes.


Barry

FrenchChili
05-08-2006, 07:12 PM
Edit: He fixed it before you could finish posting, obviously, that's why you look like a 'Tard now... :D


Oh! ok! I was looking back though the thread and couldn't understand where I got SLT!!! Thanks for letting me know 'cause I though I was 'Tard for a second there:eek:

nxet tmie poeple mkea sur ur spell ing is guud. Danm retrdas:D

Linda
05-09-2006, 08:55 AM
Bad Medicine and Overdose are closed, but according to one source, are still being run every weekend.

xFallen
05-09-2006, 09:13 AM
Bad Medicine and Overdose are closed, but according to one source, are still being run every weekend.

Closed according to whom? Show us the proof of that one. That is Box Canyon Rd accoridng to even somewhat modern maps. Is access to the active mines along there closed too? How about to the watering tanks? Sounds like more unsubstantiated folk lore but prove me wrong.


Barry

Linda
05-09-2006, 09:21 AM
Barry,

If you want to see a scientific study, by all means do one. In fact, it's not a bad idea. You should propose the idea to the AZOHVC and/or the ASA4WDC. You might get some funding or at least support in the form of volunteers to help with the research. The Arizona 4x4 community is lacking in many areas and this is one of them. :(

Linda
05-09-2006, 09:24 AM
Closed according to whom? Show us the proof of that one. That is Box Canyon Rd accoridng to even somewhat modern maps. Is access to the active mines along there closed too? How about to the watering tanks? Sounds like more unsubstantiated folk lore but prove me wrong.


Barry

See DAKOTA's reply in the Open Trail thread.

xFallen
05-09-2006, 11:07 AM
See DAKOTA's reply in the Open Trail thread.


Just read it. :rolleyes: Heresay at best, and nothing to provide any credibility. No authoratative source has been able to say those trails are closed.

All washes are waterways. That's why they are washes. Yet washes are valid routes in most mining areas at least on Federal land.


Barry

DFRacing
05-09-2006, 11:22 AM
Bad Medicine and Overdose are closed, but according to one source, are still being run every weekend.

They are not closed, BLM thinks that they can just say they are closed but legally they are not closed.

DAKOTA
05-09-2006, 11:26 AM
I never said I got my info from a reliable source , do you know why Armageddon was closed ? I thought I remamber back 2 years when the Jamboree had to get permission to run both Overdose and Bad med. Speaking of Armageddon I think that is one of the only trails I know of that they have made it damm near impossible to get onto for a run. I do write my letters and being a native I have seen alot of great trails cut off and posted so I would hope the ones not writing will take every closer serious .

Wildcat455
05-09-2006, 01:30 PM
I never said I got my info from a reliable source , do you know why Armageddon was closed ? I thought I remamber back 2 years when the Jamboree had to get permission to run both Overdose and Bad med. Speaking of Armageddon I think that is one of the only trails I know of that they have made it damm near impossible to get onto for a run. I do write my letters and being a native I have seen alot of great trails cut off and posted so I would hope the ones not writing will take every closer serious .

It might help curb the proliferation of mis-information if everyone refrains from posting that which they "Think" or "Heard" is true.

The BLM "Closed" those trails for the purpose of the Jamboree that year.

Unless a trail is "posted" closed, it is open. Overdose and Bad Medicine are indeed open.

Armageddon was closed due to the riparian area, and there may have been some habitat concerns. Same for 6th Day, although the "Out" didn't help much.

Wildcat455
05-09-2006, 01:31 PM
I never said I got my info from a reliable source


Believe it or not, this may go a long way in how your posts here are percieved.

Hardly responsible.

Wildcat455
05-09-2006, 01:32 PM
They are not closed, BLM thinks that they can just say they are closed but legally they are not closed.

BLM would "Like" them closed. ;)

DFRacing
05-09-2006, 03:50 PM
BLM would "Like" them closed. ;)

BLM wants every thing closed.:rolleyes:

roger
05-10-2006, 12:10 PM
More closed trails/areas:

The Ranch (out west of Lake Pleasant).
Proof of closure: No Trespassing signs placed on the fence around it.
Reason: Private property?

7th St/Deer Valley Rd (northeast corner - was popular with ATVs/dirt bikes)
Proof of closure: Erasure of bottom part of STL signs that granted access with permit.
Reason: Don't know - possibly housing encroachment.

DsrtJeeper
05-10-2006, 04:22 PM
More closed trails/areas:

The Ranch (out west of Lake Pleasant).
Proof of closure: No Trespassing signs placed on the fence around it.
Reason: Private property?

7th St/Deer Valley Rd (northeast corner - was popular with ATVs/dirt bikes)
Proof of closure: Erasure of bottom part of STL signs that granted access with permit.
Reason: Don't know - possibly housing encroachment.

While the ranch was closed down; an offroad park was opened up a few miles away at mile post 11. The park is free and it's a fun area to wheel.

DanFelix
11-19-2010, 05:45 PM
Interesting thread, so I thought it should continue on since it looks like their predictions are coming true and they've got a good start for us to reflect on those trails we use to have.
Let's see, we can add Broken Ankle, Martinez Canyon, Overdose, Lower Woodpecker...then someone can add the "remember when's" and other neat historical rememberances.
I'll start with the trail and reasons for closure:
--Overdose trail (Route # NW2095):Illegaly created and to minimize impacts on wildlife and habitat.
--Entrance to Upper Woodpecker (route #NW2545A):sensitive area with potential for resource damage
--Woody‟s Wash (#NW2080):designated for restoration
--Martinez Canyon:primarily based on resource damage occurring in the area from motorized use (motors are stealing and defacing the property in there, it is unlikely that campers and hikers will do that like the off highway vehicles have done, yes, vehicles)
--Lower Woodpecker:contains cultural resources
--Broken Ankle:Created illegally(?)and to minimize impacts on wildlife and habitat
To be continued...

SonoranBadger
11-19-2010, 07:48 PM
Really interesting - someone should move this to land-use...

Sedona Jeep School
11-20-2010, 07:28 AM
Wow! What ever happened to Linda? She was great!

Thanks for digging this back up. I have been watching, with great interest, how land management is moving towards more pro-active OHV management--creating specific areas for that purpose, offsetting areas that are considered "too sensitive". In many different ways, it is easier to manage in "chunks" than just by a blanket policy for an entire region.

lancetkenyon
11-22-2010, 06:28 AM
Some of the key players back then are virtually unheard from today. That is a shame. A lot of knowledge from XFallen, Wildcat455, and 1blkjp. All great guys to wheel with too. Responsible guys.

lancetkenyon
11-22-2010, 06:31 AM
In TM, you can add.....
CD1(for now): because entrance is on private properety.
DS: on private property.
Twisted: on private property

metalman
11-23-2010, 04:37 PM
salt river party days were great. lots of T&A going on there. used to be able to drive from bottom to top.