Dreaded Newbie Questions

[Gizmo]

Hi & Greetings,

Just registered on this forum and looking at purchasing my first Jeep within the next 6 Months, hence the following questions. I have driven stick shipts most of my driving life and so very familiar with the benefits of a manual transmission and made the assumption this would be the way to go in a Jeep purchase. I was recently surprised however to hear from a long time Jeep owner and off roader, that there are many benefits in the off road environment, to having an automatic transmission. What is the collective wisdom on stick vs autotransmission?

Secondly, in selecting a Jeep, I have not rulled out a Rubicon but feel that a Rubicon offers way more capability than I'll need, instead am looking at an X or Sport, possibly an Unlimited. What are some of the details I should be thinking about in deciding and what are your experiences with the above models. Consider, that I am a newby and my main interest in a Jeep is to get to hiking and general recreation site's that would be inaccessable by car or a detriment to a car's well being. I also have an interest in doing some off-road exploration, but most likely I would limit my travels to moderate terrain and less.

Any input on these questions wold be greatly appreciated.

[wannabejeeper]

Auto. If you but a Jeep and do moderate Jeepin', you'll want to do more so....a Rubi is a decent place to start since it has the lockers and 4:1 tcase etc. On the other hand, building it is half of the fun!:rolleyes:

It sounds like a Rubi unlimited would suit you perfect, more room for camping stuff and the ability to get you where you need to get.

[mingoglia]

Auto if you want an easier time learning. Manual if you want the added challenge/fun to add to the experience.

I personally think the auto takes some of the fun out of it. If you're truly good with a manual it shouldn't make much of a difference as it comes second nature. I rarely stall offroad with my manual. I think the last two times out I stalled once each time.

The buggies that compete will always have an automatic and many will say that. There's a big difference IMO with a buggy that's competing for time and those of us that go out to recreate. Those guys are trying to get through the trail as quickly as possible and have their hands full staying on course especially when controlling their rear wheel steering (when equiped). In contrast, I go out for the challenge and the fun of recreating. I personally find the added challenge of the stick fun not to mention it has a major advantage when decending down hills. Although I haven't really heard of it as a problem, I don't really like the idea of the auto's torque converter not locking up and slipping all day in the hot Arizona sun creating more heat for the poor cooling system.

Mike

[xFallen]

Hi & Greetings,

Just registered on this forum and looking at purchasing my first Jeep within the next 6 Months, hence the following questions. I have driven stick shipts most of my driving life and so very familiar with the benefits of a manual transmission and made the assumption this would be the way to go in a Jeep purchase. I was recently surprised however to hear from a long time Jeep owner and off roader, that there are many benefits in the off road environment, to having an automatic transmission. What is the collective wisdom on stick vs autotransmission?

Secondly, in selecting a Jeep, I have not rulled out a Rubicon but feel that a Rubicon offers way more capability than I'll need, instead am looking at an X or Sport, possibly an Unlimited. What are some of the details I should be thinking about in deciding and what are your experiences with the above models. Consider, that I am a newby and my main interest in a Jeep is to get to hiking and general recreation site's that would be inaccessable by car or a detriment to a car's well being. I also have an interest in doing some off-road exploration, but most likely I would limit my travels to moderate terrain and less.

Any input on these questions wold be greatly appreciated.

For serious off-road driving the 4:1 and lockers make a world of difference. I'd take that and strock or small tires over a lift and big tires without lockers or 4:1 100% of the time. Even for casual off-road the Rubicon out of the box is a very capable vehicle. The differences diminish once mods start to happen, but common early mods for non-Rubicon owners is gears/lockers/xfer case. After that it really doesn't matter except for the bling factor of the name althoguh resale may be affected. Your call.

Lockers + 4:1 == more fun because you can get into and out of more trouble :D

The manual versus automatic transmission debate ultimately boils down to personal preference. The nod probably goes to automatic. That being said I wouldn't trade my manual because I enjoy it and am so used to it and have driven standards for over 30 years.


Barry

[mingoglia]

That being said I wouldn't trade my manual because I enjoy it and am so used to it and have driven standards for over 30 years.


Barry

I've been alive for 30 years Barry. :p

[My1stJeep]

I would say test drive both. I have a neighbor who just bought a Jeep. had the auto for a day, said it was a dog (yes it was a 4.0L with the auto) he took it back and got a 6 speed manual.

I also would suggest a Rubi if it is within your budget. While you may just do moderate wheeling, there may be a time when the unexpected happens to either your vehicle of the person/people you are wheeling with and the extra lockers and 4:1 can help with recovery of the stuck vehicle.

JMO

[FrenchChili]

time to bring an old thread back alive

http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/showthread.php?t=11223&highlight=manual+automatic

[DAKOTA]

I always drive stick but my crawler got an auto and my TJ is auto and I love being able to talk and hold my drink on the trail . As far as jeep the build is the best part and a stock Rubi is not going to take you anywhere . I have seen stock rubi's high centered all 4 turning on several occations so don't get the idea a Rubi (stock) is the shanizo . Either way ask around and go to a meet-n-greet and ask questions and if you think your not going to go "rock crawling" ask around and take a ride because the addiction is a might strong drug and changes can add up to big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ .

[jeepboy]

Welcome to the insanity Gizmo, you'll like it :cool:

The debate over manuals vs automatics will never end. There are so many pros and cons for each that it just comes down to personal preference. Im a Manual man myself. Like mingoglia said, its just funner (and YES funner is a word), it adds a little bit of challenge, and it deffinatly can add some pucker factor when you stall going up a steep incline :eek: :rolleyes: .

As to what Jeep..thats like telling someone who they should marry :D. Rubis are nice but like you said, you are probably only going to do light to moderate runs (At first :D). Its just if you want to build up a Jeep to suit your needs, or have one out of the box ready and capable, even though it MIGHT be overkill for your needs. If you have the money though, WTH go with the Rubi, it will save time in the long run :D

[mingoglia]

I always drive stick but my crawler got an auto and my TJ is auto and I love being able to talk and hold my drink on the trail . As far as jeep the build is the best part and a stock Rubi is not going to take you anywhere . I have seen stock rubi's high centered all 4 turning on several occations so don't get the idea a Rubi (stock) is the shanizo . Either way ask around and go to a meet-n-greet and ask questions and if you think your not going to go "rock crawling" ask around and take a ride because the addiction is a might strong drug and changes can add up to big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ .

It's also about your line and the trails you want to tackle. Most of us have seen purpose built buggies with 40+ inch tires with "all 4 turning". For any size tire currently in production there's "rocks" on the trail that will hang them up. If he wants to run moderate trails, with a good line he'll do just fine. This is especially true on a unlimited where the 31" tires and longer wheelbase get hung up more often.

[DAKOTA]

Mike is right the line is everything but if you are new and spend 20+gees on a jeep and get stuck it can be very disappointing .

[DAKOTA]

Eitherway bruce you'll love the trails and there are plenty of us to help you with questions , even if your a westsider .Just kidding .

[SVanHerpen]

My 2 cents.

I bought the '04 Unlimited. I wanted the room in the back for hiking/camping gear, and the clearance to get to some of the more remote trailheads in AZ. I never imagined how much fun I was going to have wheelin'. I've been hiking twice since Sept. 04, but on the trail at least 2 times a month since I purchased the Jeep.

Shortly after our first trip down Turkey Creek, we added 2" blocks and 31" MTRs, on the advice of several "old timers." Later came an inflator for the tires. At Christmas I added a skidplate for the oil pan. I just added a 1" MML and a 1" BL, in hopes of adding a belly tuck in the near future. That is supposed to give me another 2" clearance in the breakover area. We also hoped to upgrade to 32" MTRs or BFGs, which should have stopped the little bit of scraping that still goes on. I don't yet drive trails rated higher than 3.5, and even then take bypasses on some obstacles. I've learned more, gotten more confidence in what my Jeep can do, and I don't always take the bypass now (some of my children love the obstacles, the youngest of them and my spouse are not overfond of any such thing). So far, we've gotten out of every tangle we've gotten into, no serious damage.


That said, I've only got a few complaints about my rig:

First is the breakover angle. With the longer wheelbase, I scrape from time to time on what others have referred to as the "shovel." With 31" tires deflated to 16lbs, I've also slightly bent the lower rear shock mounts - so I check them carefully before going out, and after getting back from trail rides. Hence the desire for a belly tuck.

Second problem is the auto tranny. In only one place, I could not ascend an obstacle. I moved up the power slowly, and didn't budge an inch. The other rigs I was on the trail with were all standards, and had no such issues. I solved the ascent problem with a little momentum, but I was the only one that needed a running start at the obstacle. I suspect that a 4:1 TCase would have made the difference.

Finally, as I clear some obstacles, I seem to hammer the tow hook or the rear bumper. That extra length causes a little grief from time to time. Don't like things that attack the frame. A different rear bumper setup might help.

We do have a list of mods we'd like to make. An RE 4.5 lift kit, and upgrade to 33" tires. I would also like to add lockers, rear and then front. At this time, I'm thinking an ARB in the front, and a Detroit in the rear. I'd like to finish the belly tuck with a skid pan from Jeep Medic. I'd like to see what I can do with the gas tank. I've got an extra inch of room above it since the body lift - there must be a way to take advantage of that. And that rear bumper. Of course a winch might be handy some day too - in the meantime, I've got a HiLift and the winch kit for it.

There's my 2 cents. Take it for what its worth.

[xFallen]

I would say test drive both. I have a neighbor who just bought a Jeep. had the auto for a day, said it was a dog (yes it was a 4.0L with the auto) he took it back and got a 6 speed manual.

I also would suggest a Rubi if it is within your budget. While you may just do moderate wheeling, there may be a time when the unexpected happens to either your vehicle of the person/people you are wheeling with and the extra lockers and 4:1 can help with recovery of the stuck vehicle.

JMO

Yeah, we'll help test drive them. Bring them to TM area and we'll run them through their paces. :D


Barry

[azshtr]

Second problem is the auto tranny. In only one place, I could not ascend an obstacle. I moved up the power slowly, and didn't budge an inch. The other rigs I was on the trail with were all standards, and had no such issues. I solved the ascent problem with a little momentum, but I was the only one that needed a running start at the obstacle. I suspect that a 4:1 TCase would have made the difference.

That could also be solved with lower gearing. My auto has never failed to pull anything I was brave enough to attempt. Then again my brave enough may be different than yours :D

[1BLKJP]

I've been alive for 30 years Barry. :p

Uh I haven't yet? :p


As for my preference. I've driven a lot of manuals in my driving but my jeep is an auto for crawling.

[Markos]

I'd say for the type of wheeling that you do, just get the wrangler 'X' or sport or whatever. Yeah, the lockers and TC might come in handy, but this is all advice from folks who really enjoy offroading.

I myself like hiking and camping more than offroading. However, I love mechanical things, working on my jeep, etc. Those parts always sound interesting and desireable, but I'm realistic about my needs. At this point in the game, I don't need any of those extra do-dads. Same thing with the tires. Do you really need MTR's, or will an A/T tire suffice? Just be realistic with your purchase. That doesn't mean you can't plan for your long-term needs up front.

In regard to the auto versus manual, think of it this way. How often will you be driving your jeep on the street versus offroading? Stick with what you love. Autos are easier offroad, but I don't See you rockcrawling in the immediate future. I've never been a fan of the slushbox, but I enjoy the fact that I can just throw my jeep in drive, and head down a trail.

[Blkruby]

I drove a stick for years in my CJ and thought I got pretty good with it but when I got my Ruby I got an auto in it and it's so much easier to 4-wheel with.:cool:

[TRobertsRN]

Welcome,

Much has been metioned here and covered well so I will only comment on points not made yet. My Jeeps and Willys over the years have had both autos and manuals, this goes for the two I have now also.

You will want to make mods and upgrades in the future, it is part of the disease. If you get a Rubi some of these mod are already there such as lockers and 4:1 transfer. Two advantages to this: One they are financed in your original loan (usually lower interest rate than your credit card for mods after the fact). Two has to do with what you can get with resale or trade value later. If it came with lockers and the 4:1 transfer loan value through kelly blue or NADA gives you value for them. If they are added on aftermarket you get no value for them. Even if someone is willing to pay you for your mods the bank will not loan them more than book value and few people pay cash. Therefore two identical Jeeps one with aftermarket parts the one with factory parts is worth more money.

Auto transmissions positives: the new ones have better durability than manual trannies and clutches, they are cheaper to fix/repair these days than manuals, no longer have horsepower loss issues compared to manual (Chevy, Dodge, and Ford trucks have more horsepower and torque with auto tranny from the factory), under same shock load off road less likely to break other parts of drive train, your lady can set next to you, resale value.

Auto tranny negatives: Without low enough low gears lack of control going down steep hill offroad (converter slips). This is solvable with lower gears or ability to lock up converter.

With all that was said before and what I have written if it weren't for a leg injury I would still prefer the fun of a stick except for serious rock crawling.

[Sedona Jeep School]

My daddy always says "Buy the best and cry only once." The Rubicon is flat-out the most capable, but it is more than 90% of Jeep owners need or will ever use. I love what Tyler said: "...like trying to tell someone who to marry..." I will have to use that one! ;)

Mike says he's only stalled once or twice with his manual, but I haven't stalled even once in 10 years...with an automatic! :D

FYI, the newly redesigned '07's are due out this fall...

[AndyB]

Gizmo, I was looking into a 4wd for the same reason as you. I enjoy hiking/backpacking a lot, but sometimes I wanted to hike in places that would be hard or impossible to reach without 4wd. Before making my final decision, I wondered if getting a jeep was overkill because all I was really looking for was somethng to get me to remote trailheads. Well, I don't have an answer for that, but I ended up getting a Rubicon Unlimited -it will obviously give you more flexibility in what you can do with it straight off the lot. I figured that I would take it out on simple trails, and if I enjoyed it, that I could at least do some decent trails with it right off the lot. I've gone on a few jeep trails around the central part of AZ, and can say that once you start, it gets to be very addicting. I'm already planning on getting a long arm lift kit, new bumpers, bigger tires,... Similar to a previous poster, I haven't been hiking since I got the Jeep, but I have gone on a number of jeep trails in the 2 months since I've owned it.

[Gizmo]

Thank you for all the replies to my query, it has given me some great info to consider over the next 6 months or so when I'll be ready to buy my jeep. In the mean time I'll keep reading and learning. This is such a great and helpful forum you all got going here.