what size tubing for LCA?

[jeepnut7261]

I am shopping for tubing to do my Longarm custom lift, I was thinking 1 1/2 .120 wall DOM.

Any suggestions?

(flame suit on):D

[Woody]

I think you should be shopping for .250 wall for the lowers. The uppers would be OK with .120 wall DOM. Thats what I run.

Woody

[tyota]

I think you should be shopping for .250 wall for the lowers. The uppers would be OK with .120 wall DOM. Thats what I run.

Woody

I agree, .120 might be alittle weak for lowers, theirs alot of guys on pirate that sleeved their lowers for added strength.
you could also consider aluminum lowers for it's ability to bend,
I know shannon campbell can make custom lowers for ya out of aluminum and he has the only lathe big enough that I know of to make them 1.5" or bigger
give them a call
http://www.campbellent.com/



good luck, keeps us posted on your progress,
I'd like to see more buildups on this site:D

[xFallen]

I am shopping for tubing to do my Longarm custom lift, I was thinking 1 1/2 .120 wall DOM.

Any suggestions?

(flame suit on):D

You can guess, or you can know. I am sure guessing is fine for most since there are a lot of rigs with 1/4" 1.5" DOM lowers that appear to stay together. Personally, I prefer to know. If you get the four link calculator by Dan Barcroft and Greg Blanchette and you will know since it does ther materials analysis for you. The stresses imposed on the links varies dramatically depending upon the geomtetry. Even if you do not use it for your four link, at least you can have the piece of mind of having calculated the stresses for the right sized tubing.


Barry

[AZXJ]

2 inch Solid Stock!!! tapped for hiems...... :D

[jeepin_in_az]

To be honest, I went through the whole "I can build a better long arm suspension than whats on the market and I can build it cheaper", only to buy one a year later. Calculating materials, time, effort just doesn't add up.

That being said, if you do use .120, sleeve it.

[DsrtJeeper]

I went overkill with the longer lowers at 2" .375 DOM. :eek:

I'm kicking myself now and wishing I had run 7075 aluminum links in the 1-3/4" variety. For the doubters; have Todd at DesertFab show you the aluminum arm his dad ran for 6 years! :eek: ;)

[AZXJ]

We have palyed with 7075 hexagon tie rods... Stout stuff..

[jeepnut7261]

Actually, I don't think I can build a "better" custom suspension. I am sure there are those out there (Desertfab, TBT etc) who could build a stout suspension with no trouble. I could also buy one off the shelf.

But just like the tube fenders, thats not the point.

If I just wanted buy something, I could, but where's the fun in that?:confused:

A Jeep is never really "done", it's an evolutionary process, and since I want to be able to say "I did it" rather than "I bought it", I'll keep asking, and I'll keep building, breaking, doing it again.

Half the fun on this board is all the great experiance and advice from everyone who has "been there, done that".

I could just let someone tell me how much fun they had on a trail, and show me pics, or even ride shotgun with them over it.

I prefer to drive myself.............................:D

[Antman]

When you get your info, lets us know as I am thinking of going this route too.

[desertfabmotors]

Do not waste your time with .120 wall links or even 1/4" they will Bend easily.
If you want steel go solid, but I would go 1 3/4" solid 7075 Alum. This sh** works and it is light. It is not that expensive if you add the cost of steel and DOM, chromoly ect.
I beat that crap out my links this weekend at the comp. and they are still straight.

[jeepnut7261]

Do not waste your time with .120 wall links or even 1/4" they will Bend easily.
If you want steel go solid, but I would go 1 3/4" solid 7075 Alum. This sh** works and it is light. It is not that expensive if you add the cost of steel and DOM, chromoly ect.
I beat that crap out my links this weekend at the comp. and they are still straight.

I think I might have made a mistake, I think I was thinking 1 1/2 .250 wall, (dang it, where's my easy button)

I dont know how to weld aluminum!!! (good excuse to learn something new)

Why solid steel? I thought it was bad? (bad steel, sit!)

The reason I'm going steel, is that have the tools to work with it. Since i will continue to drive it to work, I can also repair, rework, cuss occaisionally, and do it over if need be. (probably will. quit arguing with me! stop talking to yourself! I'm not! who are talking to now? Stop it! are you here for the full 30 minute argument, or just the five minute one?....)

Sorry, got a little side tracked......


I want to do this at home, so I'll stick with steel:D

I can find parts at M.O.R.E. , but I'd like a local supplier who is reasonable in his cost. Tubing is relatively easy, it's tube ends, heims etc that are harder to find, though i think I have found a local supplier for those too.

I'm at the measure 47 times, go for a walkabout, measure 3 times again, have a cuppa, then cut point.

[jeepin_in_az]

Actually, I don't think I can build a "better" custom suspension. I am sure there are those out there (Desertfab, TBT etc) who could build a stout suspension with no trouble. I could also buy one off the shelf.

But just like the tube fenders, thats not the point.

If I just wanted buy something, I could, but where's the fun in that?:confused:

A Jeep is never really "done", it's an evolutionary process, and since I want to be able to say "I did it" rather than "I bought it", I'll keep asking, and I'll keep building, breaking, doing it again.

Half the fun on this board is all the great experiance and advice from everyone who has "been there, done that".

I could just let someone tell me how much fun they had on a trail, and show me pics, or even ride shotgun with them over it.

I prefer to drive myself.............................:D

You just hit my point, I measured, stared at it for hours, measured again, bought the steel, bought Jonny Joints, measured again, planned all the brackets, skid plates, etc. I even built the lowers with JJ's on them. Then made a plan to attack it on a weekend, since I drive it daily.

So what if you buy a kit, you still have to install it... :D

The other thought is safety. I have 2 young kids I drive around, and other people are on the road. I would rather not have my suspension or steering fail if I built it and harm others.

Not saying you shouldn't do it, just giving you my experiance. Go for it!

BTW, I have 4 lower control arms, 33" eye to eye, 2.5" Johnny Joints for sale :D Made from 2.25x5/8" DOM.

[DsrtJeeper]

I think I might have made a mistake, I think I was thinking 1 1/2 .250 wall, (dang it, where's my easy button)

I dont know how to weld aluminum!!! (good excuse to learn something new)

Why solid steel? I thought it was bad? (bad steel, sit!)

The reason I'm going steel, is that have the tools to work with it. Since i will continue to drive it to work, I can also repair, rework, cuss occaisionally, and do it over if need be. (probably will. quit arguing with me! stop talking to yourself! I'm not! who are talking to now? Stop it! are you here for the full 30 minute argument, or just the five minute one?....)

Sorry, got a little side tracked......


I want to do this at home, so I'll stick with steel:D

I can find parts at M.O.R.E. , but I'd like a local supplier who is reasonable in his cost. Tubing is relatively easy, it's tube ends, heims etc that are harder to find, though i think I have found a local supplier for those too.

I'm at the measure 47 times, go for a walkabout, measure 3 times again, have a cuppa, then cut point.

No need to weld aluminum. It's solid stock that you just drill and tap for your favorite ends. You'd be hard pressed to find an 7075 aluminum arm that has cleanly broken. If it bends; you just stick it in a press. ;)

[xFallen]

No need to weld aluminum. It's solid stock that you just drill and tap for your favorite ends. You'd be hard pressed to find an 7075 aluminum arm that has cleanly broken. If it bends; you just stick it in a press. ;)


I carry a press on the trail with me in case anyone needs their Al LCAs bent back into shape 20 miles back into the toolies. :rolleyes: Not really, of course.

:D

Can you tell I don't believe in them? I think Al is great for uppers or comp rigs but personally I'd prefer something weldable for trail use. Unless you're bringing along your TIG, of course. :D


Barry

[desertfabmotors]

I carry a press on the trail with me in case anyone needs their Al LCAs bent back into shape 20 miles back into the toolies. :rolleyes: Not really, of course.

:D

Can you tell I don't believe in them? I think Al is great for uppers or comp rigs but personally I'd prefer something weldable for trail use. Unless you're bringing along your TIG, of course. :D


Barry

All I can say is this is all I use on all the four links I do, I use it on rigs that weight over 4000lbs and they have never!!!! failed. These are rigs that are used to the extreme. Rod ends bend before the links do. Besides you should carry a spare link just like you carry spare axles.
I have tried all types of steel lower links and they always replaced them with 7075 solid. Do not try and save $$ using 6061

[DsrtJeeper]

I carry a press on the trail with me in case anyone needs their Al LCAs bent back into shape 20 miles back into the toolies. :rolleyes: Not really, of course.

:D

Can you tell I don't believe in them? I think Al is great for uppers or comp rigs but personally I'd prefer something weldable for trail use. Unless you're bringing along your TIG, of course. :D


Barry

OK...if you bend a steel arm, which you will; how will you straighten it on the trail? ;)

[xFallen]

OK...if you bend a steel arm, which you will; how will you straighten it on the trail? ;)

With my press, of course!

Okay, okay. Everything bends. Steel more or less bends back nicely. Al can too but is definitely has a different memory structure than (some) steel. Let's call it a wash.

Everything breaks. But, steel can be welded with a rod and two 12V batteries. Al cannot.


Barry

[Heinz57]

I carry a press on the trail with me in case anyone needs their Al LCAs bent back into shape 20 miles back into the toolies. :rolleyes: Not really, of course.

:D

Can you tell I don't believe in them? I think Al is great for uppers or comp rigs but personally I'd prefer something weldable for trail use. Unless you're bringing along your TIG, of course. :D


Barry

That's why you carry a spare Al although haven't had to use it in the 2 years of running the Al. I tried all the steel crap available saw .50 wall chromo bend very quickly although on some tough stuff. I am a believer in having a spare lower link wether it be steel or Al. A trail repaired steel doesn't mean you can keep wheeling usually if it breaks it is at the joint and if it bends welll kinda like a drag link you should be able to get off the trail.

If you run steel put a gusset on it. You will see most rigs running steel with a gusset after they bent them. This will hold up well. If you run the Al. run 1 3/4 or 2" solid 7075. It is very light and a spare is easy to haul.

[xFallen]

That's why you carry a spare Al although haven't had to use it in the 2 years of running the Al. I tried all the steel crap available saw .50 wall chromo bend very quickly although on some tough stuff. I am a believer in having a spare lower link wether it be steel or Al. A trail repaired steel doesn't mean you can keep wheeling usually if it breaks it is at the joint and if it bends welll kinda like a drag link you should be able to get off the trail.

If you run steel put a gusset on it. You will see most rigs running steel with a gusset after they bent them. This will hold up well. If you run the Al. run 1 3/4 or 2" solid 7075. It is very light and a spare is easy to haul.


Al, solid, 7075. Seems like we have a recurring theme... :D

Todd or Barry, is there any driveline lash induced by the Al flexing? Probably not with 2" solid stock, I would imagine, or no more than with bushings.


Barry

[desertfabmotors]

Al, solid, 7075. Seems like we have a recurring theme... :D

Todd or Barry, is there any driveline lash induced by the Al flexing? Probably not with 2" solid stock, I would imagine, or no more than with bushings.


Barry

Flexing when?

[xFallen]

Flexing when?

Under torque from the engine but nevermind...probably not and maybe even a silly question. :D


Barry

[jeepin_in_az]

Oh no...you guys have Barry thinking about Al links now!!! :eek:

Don't go to the dark (actually, bling) side Barry!!! :D :D

[xFallen]

Oh no...you guys have Barry thinking about Al links now!!! :eek:

Don't go to the dark (actually, bling) side Barry!!! :D :D


Haha...I thought about it before and decided I wanted something thatwas weldable...but if these guys aren't breaking 2" of the good stuff then maybe that's the way to go. :D

Besides...I hear they have cookies...


Barry

[jeepin_in_az]

Haha...I thought about it before and decided I wanted something thatwas weldable...but if these guys aren't breaking 2" of the good stuff then maybe that's the way to go. :D

Besides...I hear they have cookies...


Barry

Are you bending your RK stuff? You are getting rid of the RK links? I think I read somewhere you are going to stretch it...but what kind of suspension are you going to do?

[xFallen]

Are you bending your RK stuff? You are getting rid of the RK links? I think I read somewhere you are going to stretch it...but what kind of suspension are you going to do?

I have not yet bent an RK suspension link but have bent the steering drag link. No question solid round stock is tough though.

I am going to put together a new four link in the rear with longer links and hopefully slightly better balanced geometry and will eventually do up a four link for the front when it gets strecthed forward.


Barry

[Heinz57]

Under torque from the engine but nevermind...probably not and maybe even a silly question. :D


Barry

Actually Barry that is a very good question. I think it is call debuckle or something. The 4 link gurus can chime in and help. With improper four link or too much torque and not the right material set up an al arm can flex to a degree under lots of torque. It is actually much weeker than the thick chromo stuff in this situation. This could possibly be a reason I have had some rear driveline breakage, not sure. Though I have not had problems with bending and what not, I will move to a 2" upper and lower vs the 1 3/4 and 1 1/2 tubing to try and eliminate this from the equation.

[DsrtJeeper]

I do know for a fact that when I removed and drove without my passenger front upper; my heep wandered and acted a bit strange under braking. The aluminum does have a bit of recoil, but it also is capable of absorbing shock loads instead of distributing them to the joints and frame. Another point that should be brought up is the type of joint used with aluminum links. I find that the flexing of aluminum tends to wollow out the bushings of a cartridge joint rather quickly. When the arm bends over an obstacle; you are actually shortening the length and pulling on the joints as a result. This is one reason I've switched to heims. We'll see how it goes. ;)

[xFallen]

All I can say is this is all I use on all the four links I do, I use it on rigs that weight over 4000lbs and they have never!!!! failed. These are rigs that are used to the extreme. Rod ends bend before the links do. Besides you should carry a spare link just like you carry spare axles.
I have tried all types of steel lower links and they always replaced them with 7075 solid. Do not try and save $$ using 6061

What broke on OD last fall on the first orange buggy? Was that a LCA mount? Must have been I guess since there was welding involved. I was busy back in the pack messing with wiring while you guys were playing desert DC welder. :D


Barry

[desertfabmotors]

What broke on OD last fall on the first orange buggy? Was that a LCA mount? Must have been I guess since there was welding involved. I was busy back in the pack messing with wiring while you guys were playing desert DC welder. :D


Barry


Upper Link mount, I have never had an issue with links except when I have use steel for lowers or 6061 Alum.

[xFallen]

Upper Link mount, I have never had an issue with links except when I have use steel for lowers or 6061 Alum.

Well the lowers certainly see far more duress from a stress standpoint, not to mention the beating from being used to defile rocks.

Maybe big fat Al links are in the future. It is less expensive than 4340 and only a bit more than 4130. :D At 2" solid it is going to be plenty strong.


Barry

[1BLKJP]

I do know for a fact that when I removed and drove without my passenger front upper; my heep wandered and acted a bit strange under braking. The aluminum does have a bit of recoil, but it also is capable of absorbing shock loads instead of distributing them to the joints and frame. Another point that should be brought up is the type of joint used with aluminum links. I find that the flexing of aluminum tends to wollow out the bushings of a cartridge joint rather quickly. When the arm bends over an obstacle; you are actually shortening the length and pulling on the joints as a result. This is one reason I've switched to heims. We'll see how it goes. ;)

Hey Eric, what is the al used on the tbt arms? 6061 isn't it?

[DsrtJeeper]

Hey Eric, what is the al used on the tbt arms? 6061 isn't it?

Not hardly. The failure rate would be so high that he'd be out of business. It's 7075. ;)

[xFallen]

Not hardly. The failure rate would be so high that he'd be out of business. It's 7075. ;)

6061 is a far cry from 6061-T6.

My materials books says...here it be...

6061
Tensile 18,000 psi
Yield 8,000 psi

6061-T6
Tensile 45,000 psi
Yield 40,000 psi
Brinell Hardness 95

7075-T6
Tensile 83,000 psi
Yield 73,000 psi
Brinell Hardness 150

The T6 aging process really makes a huge difference. I can see 6061-T6 2" solid stock being tempting but it will bend well before 7075-T6 according to the numbers.


Barry

[jeepin_in_az]

Not hardly. The failure rate would be so high that he'd be out of business. It's 7075. ;)

Didn't Troy market that as "special Al made for TBT"? I remember reading somewhere that he used 6061-T6...but could be for the tie rod.

[DsrtJeeper]

6061 is a far cry from 6061-T6.

My materials books says...here it be...

6061
Tensile 18,000 psi
Yield 8,000 psi

6061-T6
Tensile 45,000 psi
Yield 40,000 psi
Brinell Hardness 95

7075-T6
Tensile 83,000 psi
Yield 73,000 psi
Brinell Hardness 150

The T6 aging process really makes a huge difference. I can see 6061-T6 2" solid stock being tempting but it will bend well before 7075-T6 according to the numbers.


Barry

Barry; I think most of us are on the same page and in fact referring to T-6. ;)