Three Dead, Two Wounded in California Restaurant Shooting

[azdesertrhino]

National News from The Associated Press



Some thoughts on this situation.

1) I wonder if the dead and wounded would have liked the legal right to defend themselves against this lunatic?

2) Why didn't someone inform this lunatic it's against the law to carry handguns in Denny's in Kalifornia?

3) I wonder how the bleeding heart liberals will spin this to show that legal gun ownership and the right to defend yourself and family is wrong?



Police Say Three Dead, Two Wounded in California Restaurant Shooting; Gunman Commits Suicide


03-15-2006 8:10 PM
By JEFF WILSON, Associated Press Writer

PISMO BEACH, Calif. -- A man armed with two handguns opened fire inside a Denny's restaurant during lunch hour Wednesday, killing two people and wounding a married couple before taking his own life, police said.

As many as 15 people were inside the restaurant at the time, authorities said. Many fled or hid in bathrooms for safety.

"The witnesses described him as coming in with a dazed look on his face, then they said he started shooting," police Chief Joe Cortez said.

The wounded couple were listed in good condition and expected to be released from a hospital, authorities said. Two of the dead were in their 50s or 60s, while the third was in his 40s.

Investigators believed the gunman's motive could be unrelated to the restaurant or its employees after a witness told them about something the gunman said. They declined to give details. None of the victims worked at the restaurant.

The man, armed with a semiautomatic handgun and a revolver, began shooting within a few steps of the restaurant's front door, the chief said. It was unclear how many shots he fired.

Authorities were trying to determine whether the gunman had a history of mental illness or whether there were drugs or alcohol in his system, Cortez said.

The names of the gunman and the victims were not immediately released.

Denny's said it was cooperating with police.

"We are shocked and saddened by this tragic accident," the Spartanburg, S.C.,-based restaurant chain said in a statement. "This appears to be a random act of violence."

Pismo Beach is in San Luis Obispo County, a 3 1/2-hour drive northwest of Los Angeles.


Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[Blkruby]

A armed society is a polite society;)

The founding father's thought so much of gun ownership that they put it Number 2.

[azdesertrhino]

A armed society is a polite society;)



and a safer society!! :D

[Barker]

You all realize this just reinforces completely banning guns? Particularly handguns. People will think if there were no guns around at all, then this drugged nutcase might not have had them for his rampage.

I don't think this helps the pro-gun lobby at all.

It's a sad and shocking report which reinforces my pro-gun attitude, however, I think a lot of citizens will think just the opposite.

[lancetkenyon]

That is why I have a CCW permit. Any person in the restaraunt would have had a legal right to stop this madman. A gunfight is won by the person who shoots last. "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns!" and "They can have my gun when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers!" are two quotes that ring true for me. A ban will have no effect on illeagal ownership, only lawful owners. California already has a No Handgun Carry law, and apparently didn't do any good here. If they would issue a CCW permit, someone could have stopped this before so many had to die.

[SavageSun4x4]

Denny's for Lunch, just give us a shot.

Denny's for Lunch, the ammo's on us.

Our Lunch specials are killers.

Denny's where you don't have to check your guns at the door.

Serving shooters all day.

Denny's where a good meal is never a shot in the dark.

[Blkruby]

I don't leave home without at least 1 of my guns.One never knows when he or she might be called upon to defend ones self.I my not be a crack shot but I will be able to defend myself.

[SavageSun4x4]

That is a complete assumption...It is also perfectly liely to assume that while some gun carrying patron is trying to kill this fella, an errant bullet kills the mother of two children sitting in the booth behind his target.

Are all CCW carriers crack shots or what?
John you are on target, it is just an assumption. Clearly you could be correct that the CCW holder could miss and hit the mother of the two children in the booth behind his target. But like you say it is all just an assumption.

However, when a law abiding citizen with a CCW or otherwise armed has stepped up to the plate the results have been successfull. In fact its not often the citizen has failed in their mission or made a mistake that brought harm or injury to others.

This of course is the infomation that the anti-gunners would rather you not know.

It is also this same twisted logic used by the anti-gunners that keeps guns out of the hands of senior aircrew members. If we are trusting a couple of guys in the ****pit to hundreds of us to some distant location safely, I fail to grasp why we don't give them some training and a gun to defend us. It may or may not have stopped 9-11 but at least it would help stack the odds in our favor.

[azdesertrhino]

That is a complete assumption...It is also perfectly liely to assume that while some gun carrying patron is trying to kill this fella, an errant bullet kills the mother of two children sitting in the booth behind his target.

Are all CCW carriers crack shots or what?

You seem to miss the whole point. The dead and wounded had no chance of defending themselves at all. If the guy had more bullets or guns, most likely more would have died.

At what point would you figure a person should be able to step up and take out a murdering lunatic? 5 dead, 10 dead, 15 dead? What if he takes out the mother and children first? Does that make it acceptable?

I agree that the chance exists that another person(s) could be hit but what if he didn't decide to kill himself at that point? It's o.k. for him to keep up the killing spree until he gets tired or runs out of ammo because legal law abiding citizens aren't allowed to protect themselves or their families.

[Antman]

You seem to miss the whole point. The dead and wounded had no chance of defending themselves at all. If the guy had more bullets or guns, most likely more would have died.

At what point would you figure a person should be able to step up and take out a murdering lunatic? 5 dead, 10 dead, 15 dead? What if he takes out the mother and children first? Does that make it acceptable?

I agree that the chance exists that another person(s) could be hit but what if he didn't decide to kill himself at that point? It's o.k. for him to keep up the killing spree until he gets tired or runs out of ammo because legal law abiding citizens aren't allowed to protect themselves or their families.

You hit the nail on the head Jim. He dont git da point.;)

[FrenchChili]

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


Oh wait, I was about to go off-topic :D :D :D

[AZG23]

John...for the love of whats Holy!

Dude...picture this...ok...can you THINK for a minute...maybe picture a scenario and you tell me how Y O U...would react. ok..playtime..here goes..ready?


You are sitting in a restaurant eating with your wife, and YOUR Mom and Dad...can you see that in your head..?? Good...stay with me here and dont put a spin on it..thx

You are sitting eating when a crazy gun/knife/sword/Chevy swirling psycho comes in and starts killing people...he just cut the arm off of a guy that stood up to fight him off of his kid, and he shot the mans child point blank in the head. (are you still with me John...?? Not so pretty huh..?)

Y O U R table is next John, not to be served your Cheese and Wine, but to be slaughtered. You quickly look around and there are NO LEO in sight..WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO JOHN...?

When you FEEL all is lost and you are going to watch your Mom and Dad be killled, and your wife.....when all of a sudden in a flash you here different gun shots...these are load and RIGHT next to you....in a panic you stood up to get away from the badguy and you feel a burning sensation in your shoulder...you just stood up into the line of fire from a law abiding, rCCW carrying 40 year old man sitting with his daughter having dinner. HE took the responsability to live where he could defend his family IF the need ever happened...he prayed that it never would, but there is no way He's let someone else take his family so violently...he just took out the Bad guy with 6 shots of his .45 cal Glock and the guy dropped just as he was raising his gun to your Moms head...how do you FEEL John...??

He just saved your life, your wifes life, and that of your parents....you are bleeding from the gunshot wound to your shoulder as the Police and EMT's arrive...

Guess what John....he went out to the desert to practice every week because the GUN range wont let you practice from concealment or rapid fire....he carries out his targets and ammo boxes...he spent the money to get his CCW and spent even more to get training....

He just GAVE you back your RIGHT as you put it to live...you had NO answer for the BG about to kill your family...

Now...2 things John: This was hypothetical...but has happened, and will happen again in some city in some state..

Someone that you are complaining about may just end up saving you and your family life...Im sure you will come back with some non sensical feel good answer...but I want you to think about this scenario...then post.

[SavageSun4x4]

You seem to miss the whole point. The dead and wounded had no chance of defending themselves at all. If the guy had more bullets or guns, most likely more would have died.

At what point would you figure a person should be able to step up and take out a murdering lunatic? 5 dead, 10 dead, 15 dead?



Shooting rampage at Killeen Luby's left 24 dead


Before Oct. 16, 1991, the Central Texas town of Killeen was perhaps best known for its proximity to the Army base at Fort Hood, and Luby's was known only regionally as a popular cafeteria chain that served a wide variety of inexpensive dishes.

But on that day, both came to be linked to what was then the worst mass murder in U.S. history.

At 12:45 p.m., 35-year-old George Hennard of nearby Belton drove his pickup truck through a window at the Killeen Luby's and killed 24 people with a gun.

His 15-minute rampage ended when he shot himself after being wounded by police officers...

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/first100/1001214.html

[AZG23]

I can only tell you this....for a robbery...my gun isnt coming out...not until I am threatened. There are several cases where a CCW'r has saved anothers life...I have never heard/read/seen where a CCWholder has shot an innocent..

Now hat said...I know...just because 'I' havent, doesnt mean it doesnt or hasnt happened.

And though you think it sounds like a movie...there are several occasions where this very thing has happened...Killeen, texas...the Dennys incident, the mall in Tacoma,Wa, the murder/shooting spree on Texas courthouse steps. These are the ones that make national news...smaller versions happen every day.

As for the "routine" robbery....no such thing...just as there is no such thing as a routine traffic stop for LEO. Drugs, mental capability, anger all lead to what is NOT an everyday thought process.

[SavageSun4x4]

And though you think it sounds like a movie...there are several occasions where this very thing has happened...Killeen, Texas...the Dennys incident, the mall in Tacoma,Wa, the murder/shooting spree on Texas courthouse steps. These are the ones that make national news...smaller versions happen every day.

YEP! And some folks wonder why in Texas we have an "express lane" on death row:D heck, we are thinking of putting in a drive thru...:D

Total Executions 1976-2005:
1) Texas - 360
2) Virginia - 94

12) Arizona - 22

[FrenchChili]

I'm not taking sides or anything but reading all this is crazy...

John I met u before, I like you, I'd like to wheel with you..you make a lot of valid points...but the stuff you talk about right now sounds like you read it from a book...

(edit) It just seems like that to me that's all

[My1stJeep]

John,

I think your scenarios are right on, but out dated. It used to be guys would come in and just rob you and leave. We don't hear that anymore, cause the new thing is go nuts and shoot everyone in sight before turning the gun on yourself. The scenario that started the thread is more the norm now a days.

Then again robbery is still happening, think of Subway not too long ago here in Arizona. They robbed the place and killed the guys working it. Then again, Wal-Mart parking lot (Northwest Valley), two lot attendants dead for what reason? The only robberies I hear about that they usually don't shoot the patrons is banks. The days of simple resturaunt robberies without a shooting are not very common these days.

As for which side of the coin, you points about the possibility an innocent could be hurt by friendly fire so to speak is there and 100% valid, however so is the possiblity of no fire power amongst the patrons and the guy keeps reloading until all 100 patrons are dead. I would rather error on the side being armed in hopes that someone can stop this guy before he gets through the whole crowd. JMO

[My1stJeep]

Yes I think that is fair. Hold on before anyone goes nuts, I am not very well versed in gun laws, and based on my current knowledge I would say it is fair. My current knowledge limits me, I only know of laws limiting felons from carrying guns, and to me that is fine. The committed a felony and with all crimes you lose some rights, for some you go to jail, for others you lose the right to carry/own guns (is it all guns or only certain types?), and there are probably other rights you lose too.

So I am not sure what you are addressing when you ask if I think it is fair, with my limited knowlegde on the laws restricting gun ownership I would have to go out on a limb and say yes.

To the totally disturbed individual, which are usually the ones who go in to shoot up the place and kill people, then turn the guns on themselves you are correct, I bet the knowledge that every person in the place might have a gun is in no way a deterrant. However I have to agree I would want the right to defend myself and give me and my family a fighting chance if faced with that situation.

It would be interesting to see the numbers reported, but I would venture to guess, even with the news wanting to report deaths as they sell better, that these types are growing and have surpassed the regular robberies of the old days.

[AZG23]

Actually...Ive seen interviews where they ask the Felon what they fear...and they say the armed citezen...

[lancetkenyon]

That is a complete assumption...It is also perfectly liely to assume that while some gun carrying patron is trying to kill this fella, an errant bullet kills the mother of two children sitting in the booth behind his target.

Are all CCW carriers crack shots or what?
Crack shots? Not all. You DO have to pass a shooting test to be issued a CCW though. I passed mine with a 100%, and I practice regularly. Was 1 of 3 out of 39 that passed with 100% the first attempt. If a CCW holder accidently injures or kills a bystander in the use of deadly force on an assailant, he is held accountable. In my opinion though, IT IS BETTER TO BE TRIED BY 12, THAN CARRIED BY 6! Also, every person 18 years or older who is not a convicted felon or a misdemeanor domestic violence offender is allowed to carry a weapon in AZ. AZ is an "Open carry law" state. There are certain restrictions about where you can carry, but you are able to carry(openly:in plain view). I always carry where not prohibited by law. I pray to GOD I never have to use it, but if I do need it to protect myself, family, or another innocent person, I will. It is a huge responsibility to carry a weapon, and is a priviledge that is protected by the Constitution of the United States of America. It's called the 2nd Amendment. And by the way, I think if a madman was shooting up a restaraunt, any mother would not be sitting in a booth behind a nut, they would be on the floor huddled over their children. They would most likely be out of the line of fire, because I would be shooting at an upwards angle from a seated or crouched position. And my Cor-Bon .45ACP+P 230 Gr JHP would most likely not fully penetrate the center mass section of the assailant. Double tap center mass with a chaser to the head in case of body armor.

[TRobertsRN]

The education in concealed carry is about personal responsibility, and rights of the individual.

Gun's, Cars, medicine, electricty, bathtubs, fire, and religion among others have the potential for harm or good.

It is not the place for government to ban things that have the potential to do harm. It is the obligation of the individual to operate these things in a right, sane, and reasonable manner or suffer the consequences of their own actions.

I am for individual rights and limited government.

I think I shold get a new bumper sticker.

"Your can have my hand gun after you give up your car, electricity, medical care, indoor plumbing, fires, and religion if you have the balls to try"

[azdesertrhino]

Well...all in all I think we have all posted possible scenarios. Some more likely than others. More than likely that perception of "possibility" is further exaggerated by the media. Death is a favorite I shall remind you.

I am sure there are MANY more armed robberies than we are aware of...that late night liquor store type...

Most of all the examples in this thread have involved a seriously disturbed individual. Nothing will usually "deter" these folks as a death wish is usually held.

Anyhow, would I want to be able to defend myself, sure. However, that is a pleasure not all americans have.

So, do you think it is fair that not all americans have the right to carry arms to defend their life?

Should all americans have that right?

You have an awesome knack for missing the point or changing lanes, I'm not sure which.

The point of the original post is 3 people died and 2 were wounded and had absolutlely no chance to defend themselves due to over zealous anti gunners thinking that if they make laws outlawing guns the criminals will stop carrying them and be "good boys and girls"! :confused:

[SavageSun4x4]

I am for individual rights and limited government.


Not sure how old you are, but I do know many folks here are not old enough to remember this. So I will relate a true story that I think many will enjoy.

Before H Ross Perot there was another noted "very conservative" Texas family headed up by H L Hunt, who was a billionaire before being a billionaire will cool. HL earned his money the hard way, working in the oil fields of Texas in the prewar days of oil wildcatters.

He had several sons, all as conservative as him. One son, Nelson Bunker Hunt got into some trouble with the feds over his involvement in silver futures back in the late sixties early seventy’s. Nelson had cornered the market on silver and was accused of controlling the silver market prices.

He was summoned to Congress, brought before congressional representatives, various Federal overseers of the stock market, and questioned. It was all shown on TV.

After much heated discussion with Mr. Hunt, one congressional representative leaned forward to his microphone and asked this question of Mr. Hunt. “Tell me Mr. Hunt what exactly do you think the role of the federal government is?”

You could have heard a mouse running on cotton in the attic it was so quiet, everyone leaning forward to hear what this rich Texan was going to say. Nelson Bunker leaned forward to his microphone and in that Texas drawl and booming voice he said:

“Mr. Congressman, I see the role of our Federal government as twofold, 1 to guard and protect these shores of this United States and 2, to leave me and my family the hell alone!”

[TRobertsRN]

I like it. I do remember the cornering of the Silver market. Not sure if I accually remember it or learned it in college (Business Degree) but I am 45. Over the years I have come to the conclusion that I was put together with used parts so parts of me are older (knees, hips, shoulder, and heart wearing out before warranty).