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Sandee McCullen
01-31-2006, 08:31 AM
Just a quick update regarding FR 42........... spoke with Kelly from the Cave Creek Ranger District and he says FR 42 will not be open to vehicle use until the "Route Designations are completed which will be late this year or early 2007". IT IS CLOSED AS ARE ALL BUT THE MAJOR ROUTES IN THIS AREA.

There are map kiosks showing the closed/open roads in the Cave Creek district at:
Camp Creek Wash
Fee area at Horseshoe Lake Rd.
FR24...... first wash towards Sears Cave Rt.
I-17 east side of Table Mesa Rd
At the junction of FR677 & 269

Eventually this entire area will be by permit only but for the time being, please respect the closures. We will be part of the Evaluations when they start this process.

If you have questions or concerns please call Kelly Jardine at 480.595.3370

My1stJeep
01-31-2006, 08:41 AM
I guess I missed a boat on this, I thought it was only closed due to fire danger, is there a different reason it was closed?

Sandee McCullen
01-31-2006, 08:46 AM
I guess I missed a boat on this, I thought it was only closed due to fire danger, is there a different reason it was closed?

The actual closure was due to the destruction from the fire and floods. I don't agree with the decision to make this area a "permit only" but it's a FS decision and we won't have any choice. It's not intended to be a "fee area"......... just gated like Bulldog Wash.

EVERYTHING is a "danger area for fires" at this time. We all need to take special care when we're off highway.

Sandee McCullen
01-31-2006, 01:01 PM
um, public discussion of this is finished ?

Don't know why............... if there are questions needed to be answered or comments to be made there's no reason to ignore this subject. If there on going questions or issues I believe this indicates more reason for the OHV groups/individuals to GET INVOLVED with the land managers and the land planning now on going. If we don't let our voice be heard now we will definitely lose much of what we take for granted.

RokNRich
01-31-2006, 03:39 PM
Waiting for fire damage to recover is one thing, putting up gates is something else, is there any more information on this ? I'd like to at least know where the gates are going to be......

Nothing to be found on the websites, but I did fill this feedback form out: http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/tonto/contact/feedback.shtml

http://www.fs.fed.us/
http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/tonto/home.shtml

Tonto National Forest
2324 E. McDowell Rd.
Phoenix, AZ 85006

desk: (602) 225-5200
fax: (602) 225-5295
vpicard@fs.fed.us


The Cave Creek Ranger District
Address:
40202 North Cave Creek Rd.
Scottsdale, AZ 85262
Phone: (480) 595-3300
Fax: (480) 595-3346

Jdemonto
09-11-2006, 11:55 PM
I heard of a re-opeing fr-42 on the news grps about a month ago??? Do they just need volunteers to re-open or is there red tape involved..what can we do to help????

themud
09-19-2006, 06:55 PM
I called the fs about a month ago and talked with? (I dont remember who I spoke with) he said the trail will be closed for at least another 6-8 months and then it will be appraised as to whether itll be reopened for general use or not...If its gonna be open I gotta go otherwise Ill just impatiently wait..:(

Jdemonto
11-20-2006, 07:59 PM
Any news on fr-42?????? I'm dying to wheel it again!!!


Jason

CjCarl
11-20-2006, 10:39 PM
I talked to the ranger down there a while back, and he told me that it was possible that it would be open by this summer. And like the others said, the ranger told me it was closed to allow the area to "recover" from the fire and flood damage from a couple years ago.

Sandee McCullen
11-20-2006, 11:02 PM
FR42 will not be reopened until the rehab is complete and the ENTIRE area is fenced and signed. The entire area will be fenced and gated. Entry will be by permit only similar to Bulldog Wash.

Following the fire the rains obliterated many of the trails and signing. Teams are going out as time permits to reestablish routes by GPS from prior data. The perimeter fencing still needs to be done. I know they need volunteers but I don't know the specifics of what's happening right now. More info as I get it.

Jdemonto
12-03-2006, 02:46 PM
Sounds like a long term project?????

Jason

SHNIPE
12-03-2006, 09:56 PM
are these permit projects leading to pay permits and or closures? Im ok with having to obtain a permit but if it ends up being a stepping stone in the course of having it closed it would be a warning sign for future trails. Have there been any other trails that went from open to permits to closed? Is that a natural course for the FS/BLM/Greenies to take?

Sandee McCullen
12-04-2006, 08:22 AM
are these permit projects leading to pay permits and or closures? Im ok with having to obtain a permit but if it ends up being a stepping stone in the course of having it closed it would be a warning sign for future trails. Have there been any other trails that went from open to permits to closed? Is that a natural course for the FS/BLM/Greenies to take?

It is not a "fee" permit. It will be like Bulldog Wash intended to allow for some "tracing" or "knowledge" of who and when recreationists are in the area. Actually Tonto has recently implemented a new and easier process. New cards, EVERYONE no longer needs to register, etc. This process should be out shortly. I believe it will work for all gated areas for a six month time period. I'll post more as I get it.

I'm not convinced fencing the Cave Creek area is a good or doable thing but the Cave Creek Ranger District believe it's good so this is what we'll have to live with. However, I do not believe there is any intent to make this a "fee" area. For FS or BLM to turn any area into a "fee" area there are some very extensive requirements and pre-proposals that need to be done and then it goes through an OHV Work Group within the BLM Resource Advisory Council. It cannot be done just because they change their minds.

Sycamore will be another "permit" area although the Friends of Sycamore are considering asking it to be a "fee area". That will be down the road a ways and there must be "public scoping" to do this.

The number one reason for requireing permits is it tends to keep the yahoos out. The drug groups, trash dumpers, or those that simply don't care about our resources don't want to be around others nor do they want to be in areas that have upgraded law enforcement plus they don't want their names on a "permit list" that would allow for tracing. I don't support "gated/permitted" areas for the most part but certainly do understand their need.

Bulldog Wash has required a permit for 12-15 years. I don't know of any trails that have been closed as an end result of being gated with permit, although if we're not careful and respectful, Martinez Canyon (BLM) could end up that way unless we STAY INVOLVED!

Jdemonto
12-04-2006, 09:46 AM
I'm all for keeping the yahoos out, as long as it doen't keep us out!!!! If they go to permit only, I hope they make it some what easy or it could turn off most jeepers....

Jason

RufftyTuffty
12-04-2006, 05:21 PM
Permits, gates and fees are all goning to be part of the CS program...if you look at the new Bulldog permit it already has a box for the fee...currently $0.00

They already have plans to gate Sycamore, i'm sure the other areas will follow...then they can collect $15.00 x 2,000,000 users bringing $30,000,000 into their pockets.

~Mike

Sandee McCullen
12-04-2006, 09:29 PM
Permits, gates and fees are all goning to be part of the CS program...if you look at the new Bulldog permit it already has a box for the fee...currently $0.00

They already have plans to gate Sycamore, i'm sure the other areas will follow...then they can collect $15.00 x 2,000,000 users bringing $30,000,000 into their pockets.

~Mike

Gating and "fee areas" are not in any way connected with any proposal involving the Copper Sticker funding source. There is no connection in any way........ The Copper Sticker was intended to be a USER FEE for EVERYONE traveling on trails outside highways or maintained graded gravel roads. The dollars were to go towards OUR needs involving new trails; staging areas; mitigation or maintenance of our existing trails; development of speciality parks; extra law enforcement; education; and signing and maps.

I have 2787 responses regarding the Copper Sticker and most of what I read is nothing but whinning about having to pay $15.00 to insure our access and help the land managers manage trails for OUR USE. Each year the OHV recreationists whine that they "pay taxes and thusly should be allowed to go and do whatever they wish on public lands". They also believe that if they pay for a vehicle registration that should be good enough. They don't understand, nor do they want to understand, that their highway plates, registration, insurance is for HIGHWAY and MAINTAINED ROAD maintenance ONLY. WHO exactly is expected to maintain or manage the OHV trails that we all want for our chosen recreation?

I had hoped by posting the issues as they occur would help ALL to understand but all it seems to do is confuse more by way too many of our fellow recreationists confusing the facts and/or issues. I don't believe there is any thread that combines "fee areas or gated areas" with the Copper Sticker.

Bulldog Wash has been gated, by permit only for about 12 years. It was gated due to the massive abuse OHV enthusiasts were causing in the canyon. There has never been a fee nor are there any plans for a fee. Cave Creek (FR 42 area) will be fenced and gated but will NOT be a fee area. Sycamore will be gated but NOT a fee area although the Friends of Sycamore have suggested it be a fee area in the future.

F/S and BLM are allowed to specify certain areas as "Fee areas", but as noted above there are a number of REQUIRED amenities that must be available and a fee proposal must go to public scoping and through an Advisory Group of OHV representatives. This is the only way public land managers can designate FEE AREAS. If it is a designated fee area 80% of all dollars collected as entry fees to the specific area MUST be put back into the area. The OHV Advisory group review the accounting yearly.

FYI: As it stands as of Friday, Dec 1, there will be not be a Copper Sticker funding proposal presented to the legislature. Too many public whined about "digging into their pockets for $15.00/year" to support and guarantee access to their sport." The working group is hoping to still present the OHV laws. We will continue pursuing for dollars via the RV Title Plate registration; increase the gas tax; volunteer CS program; etc etc. Any alternatives agreed to will not come close to matching what $10.00 - $15.00 per rider would produce but it may be a start to keep our sport alive for a few years..............

Flexy
12-04-2006, 09:36 PM
You have got to be kidding me. If all of us FAT *** Jeep/OHV users went out to McDonalds 1 time less a MONTH, It would pay for itself. This is stupid. Now, when people ***** about land closures, Ask them if it was worth 2 Big Mac meals that were super sized. :rolleyes: Sorry, to complain, but it just kicks my ***** when people cant get off of 15 damn dollars to do something they enjoy. I guess it rules out smoking (+85 Cents a pack now) and sex. (Condoms are pretty pricey too right???)

(donning flame ******ent suit now)

Joe




Gating and "fee areas" are not in any way connected with any proposal involving the Copper Sticker funding source. There is no connection in any way........ The Copper Sticker was intended to be a USER FEE for EVERYONE traveling on trails outside highways or maintained graded gravel roads. The dollars were to go towards OUR needs involving new trails; staging areas; mitigation or maintenance of our existing trails; development of speciality parks; extra law enforcement; education; and signing and maps.

I have 2787 responses regarding the Copper Sticker and most of what I read is nothing but whinning about having to pay $15.00 to insure our access and help the land managers manage trails for OUR USE. Each year the OHV recreationists whine that they "pay taxes and thusly should be allowed to go and do whatever they wish on public lands". They also believe that if they pay for a vehicle registration that should be good enough. They don't understand, nor do they want to understand, that their highway plates, registration, insurance is for HIGHWAY and MAINTAINED ROAD maintenance ONLY. WHO exactly is expected to maintain or manage the OHV trails that we all want for our chosen recreation?

I had hoped by posting the issues as they occur would help ALL to understand but all it seems to do is confuse more by way too many of our fellow recreationists confusing the facts and/or issues. I don't believe there is any thread that combines "fee areas or gated areas" with the Copper Sticker.

Bulldog Wash has been gated, by permit only for about 12 years. It was gated due to the massive abuse OHV enthusiasts were causing in the canyon. There has never been a fee nor are there any plans for a fee. Cave Creek (FR 42 area) will be fenced and gated but will NOT be a fee area. Sycamore will be gated but NOT a fee area although the Friends of Sycamore have suggested it be a fee area in the future.

F/S and BLM are allowed to specify certain areas as "Fee areas", but as noted above there are a number of REQUIRED amenities that must be available and a fee proposal must go to public scoping and through an Advisory Group of OHV representatives. This is the only way public land managers can designate FEE AREAS. If it is a designated fee area 80% of all dollars collected as entry fees to the specific area MUST be put back into the area. The OHV Advisory group review the accounting yearly.

FYI: As it stands as of Friday, Dec 1, there will be not be a Copper Sticker funding proposal presented to the legislature. Too many public whined about "digging into their pockets for $15.00/year" to support and guarantee access to their sport." The working group is hoping to still present the OHV laws. We will continue pursuing for dollars via the RV Title Plate registration; increase the gas tax; volunteer CS program; etc etc. Any alternatives agreed to will not come close to matching what $10.00 - $15.00 per rider would produce but it may be a start to keep our sport alive for a few years..............

RokNRich
12-04-2006, 11:51 PM
Hey Joe, I went to one of those meetings about the copper sticker and I'd be willing to bet good money it was the quad guys who were pissed and organized a letter writing campaign against the copper sticker. Truthfully, I wouldn't blame them much. As I understand it, the only people required to get the sticker would be the unlicensed and unisured folks (read quads) and not only that, they would need a sticker for each quad. Most people that I know who ride quads don't have one, they have one for each member of the family. So a quad guy with a couple of kids could easily end up forking out $60 to run the same trails as most of us run with our jeeps for free. I was surprised to learn that registered and insured vehicles wouldn't need the sticker, and I for one wouldn't mind pitching $15 a year for the benefits the proposal was offering.

If I have that wrong Sandee, please correct me.

Sandee McCullen
12-05-2006, 08:15 AM
Hey Joe, I went to one of those meetings about the copper sticker and I'd be willing to bet good money it was the quad guys who were pissed and organized a letter writing campaign against the copper sticker. Truthfully, I wouldn't blame them much. As I understand it, the only people required to get the sticker would be the unlicensed and unisured folks (read quads) and not only that, they would need a sticker for each quad. Most people that I know who ride quads don't have one, they have one for each member of the family. So a quad guy with a couple of kids could easily end up forking out $60 to run the same trails as most of us run with our jeeps for free. I was surprised to learn that registered and insured vehicles wouldn't need the sticker, and I for one wouldn't mind pitching $15 a year for the benefits the proposal was offering.

If I have that wrong Sandee, please correct me.


You are correct in this is what the existing "draft" stated however the one issue from the public meetings that was unanamous was EVERYONE that rode/drove off a highway or maintained road should be required to obtain a permit. Many times the workgroup agreed it needed to be everyone but G&F kept changing it by stating "the legislature won't accept a double tax on the licensed vehicles". When asked why the ATV's and/or Bikes wouldn't be a double tax we received no answer. The reason G&F kept backing off this issue is because that would mean the enviros that drive their vehicles to the back trails within the wilderness; or the birdwatchers; or the equestrian that drive their one ton trucks with attached trailer and horses would also have to obtain a permit. The draft, as a whole is a good one. The 8 issues OHV were demanding to simply "tie up the loop holes" would have made this a good bill allowing enough money to OHV to truly help protect our access, and help our land managers manage the lands to the level the enviro law suits would be moot..................

Actually it was not the ATV's, for the most part, that objected to the permit and/or fees. It was everyone "NOT WANTING TO PAY ANY FEE". They just paid an average of $7,000.00 for mom, pop's & kids ATV's; UTV's cost $10,000.00; bikes a bit less but the dress equipment is upwards of $1500.00, but we whine about pocket change!!! What do we pay for our vehicles?; Air lockers; TIRES; suspensions; cages etc etc????? The "OHV Issue Statement" noted 1/2 price to each vehicle titled to the same person." This means if dad purchased ATV's for his family most likely all vehicles are titled in his name......... $15.00 / $7.50 / $7.50 / $7.50..... for a YEAR of protecting our access rights!!@!

Most of the issues, other than the "fee" requirement, were accepted by OHV. I don't understand why Arizona OHV recreationists have this problem. In researching all the other states OHV programs and fee structure I found NO issues with a fee. Our fellow states had no problem passing an OHV bill. Arizona was looking to be a leader in requiring ALL vehicles that leave a highway and/or maintained gravel road to obtain a permit. ALL other OHV stickers are ATV's and bikes only other than in special recreation areas such as Glamis Dunes. I sometimes wonder how many of our fellow OHV recreationists realize how outright SPOILED we are in Arizona. Most of us don't have to drive more than 30 minutes to our favorite trail or area and even with the Copper Sticker fee allows us to recreate on thousands of miles of trails for almost FREE.

California has lost THOUSANDS of miles of trails over the past 10 years............. we DON'T BELIEVE it will happen to us; the eastern states have 4-5 PARKS with maybe a thousand miles of trails. We have inventoried 986 miles of trails in Florence Junction only. Alabama has 13 miles of legal ATV trails in a 100 acre park. These parks are NOT FREE. Paragon, Raush Park, Hatfield & McCoy, ........ cost EACH VEHICLE $35.00 - $45.00 per day!!! AND, most families have to drive 3-5 hours to get there. We complain about a $15.00 per YEAR sticker that allows us the right to recreate on almost ALL lands? Blows me away! I would rather not pay any fee the same as anyone else but I do want to save our lands and resources for my children and grandchildren. As it's going now the land managers simply do not have the dollars to keep on top of the damage or simple impact the numbers of motorized vehicles do today. IF THEY CANNOT MANAGE THE LANDS AND RESOURCES AS SET FORTH BY NATIONAL MANDATES AND/OR WHAT THE ENVIROS DEMAND, THEY WILL SIMPLY CLOSE ALL BUT WHAT THEY CAN MANAGE. We MUST be part of careing for our trails to save our sport for future generations.

I can't even get our people to dig into their pockets for $5.00 to help defray legal costs to fight the enviros!!! If our people don't wake up and see the light soon we won't have anything but the major graded roads. Don't think this won't happen.:(

RufftyTuffty
12-05-2006, 09:27 AM
For the record i have absolutely not problem paying $15...hell even $150 a year for running the kick ***** trails we have in our state....if they leave the good stuff alone (not the case in FJ).

In fact i already pay $15 for the state lands permit everyear.

The problem i see is that they seem to be herding/attacking us in several areas/groups.

I'm sure once they have gated these areas then the fee box will come into it's own....so the fee box on the Bulldog permit will be in addition to the CS? Or is just for show?

What is stopping them from locking the gates and charging $15 for the combo?

~Mike

Sandee McCullen
12-05-2006, 12:38 PM
For the record i have absolutely not problem paying $15...hell even $150 a year for running the kick ***** trails we have in our state....if they leave the good stuff alone (not the case in FJ).

In fact i already pay $15 for the state lands permit everyear.

The problem i see is that they seem to be herding/attacking us in several areas/groups.

I'm sure once they have gated these areas then the fee box will come into it's own....so the fee box on the Bulldog permit will be in addition to the CS? Or is just for show?

What is stopping them from locking the gates and charging $15 for the combo?

~Mike

F/S and BLM are allowed to specify certain areas as "Fee areas", but there are a number of REQUIRED amenities that must be available and a fee proposal must go to public scoping and through an Advisory Group of OHV representatives. This is the only way public land managers can designate FEE AREAS. If it is a designated fee area 80% of all dollars collected as entry fees to the specific area MUST be put back into the area. The OHV Advisory group review the accounting yearly.

Something WE have not recognized yet is WE HAVE POWER..... we just don't use it. I can't begin to tell everyone how something as simple as our RED SHIRTS showing at meetings take effect. The Environmentalists are less vocal and the land managers are somewhat WORRIED. At a Glamis Dunes meeting a few years ago BLM actually called in extra law enforcement because they had heard of the "number of RED SHIRTS" planning on attending!!! We MUST keep up on the issues AND understand the issues; we MUST be ACTIVE and we MUST STAY UNITED.

IF and WHEN a Copper Sticker (OHV USE PERMIT) would fly, Special Recreation FEE AREAS would not be covered by the Copper Sticker. This is part of the reason we, OHV, MUST KEEP CONTROL OF THE PROPOSED "FEE AREAS" BY THE FEDERAL LAND MANAGERS.

RE: the State Land Permit......... the Copper Sticker would have been in place of the State Land Permit so for your $15.00 you would have had access to ALL lands, not just State Trust Lands.

At this time it looks like the Copper Sticker proposal is moot for this year. We're going to try pushing through the OHV laws so law enforcement really have something to cite for as well as implementing sound & safety rules but the Copper Sticker funding as proposed won't fly this year. We hope to get our OHV Gas Tax dollars back from the state budget ($7,000,000.00) but even that is iffy and won't start to match what we could do with the Copper Sticker revenue. They say.......... "Try and try again".... We will. Maybe sometime in between our people will see the advantage in digging into their pockets for $5.00 - maybe $60.00 / $75.00 per year to recreate. The Enviros simply keep growing and stay in the face of the land managers. They know everything we do....... when we do it and where we do it. They make pictures of tracks in an open OHV area look bad for us. They use the term "ORV" (OFF road) to their advantage by declaring we use "OHV" to make ourselves "look good". WE do not believe anyone can take our "rights" away. They can, they do and they will!

WalterD
12-05-2006, 09:51 PM
I would pay $100. a year without a problem to access trails, knowing it went for what it was intended for. I have only been into trails for less than a year. But I for one ( I'm pretty slow) in reading previous post got lost in all the G\F want's this F\S is requiring something else. I'm not sure what the "red shirt" issue is. The last few posts you here have made it alot clearer.
You had stated "I can't even get our people to dig into their pockets for $5.00 to help defray legal costs to fight the enviros!!! " Is there somewhere to donate to help with the costs? From what I've read you're the driving force in the legal aspect of this issue.
I would hate to loose something that everyone here enjoys, and literrally takes advantage of.
As Joe stated earlier, Pay some now and enjoy, or Pay more later and hope you get the opportunity to 4 Wheel again.
If you don't do anything now, don't piss and moan later.
Thanks Walter

Sandee McCullen
12-05-2006, 10:11 PM
I would pay $100. a year without a problem to access trails, knowing it went for what it was intended for. I have only been into trails for less than a year. But I for one ( I'm pretty slow) in reading previous post got lost in all the G\F want's this F\S is requiring something else. I'm not sure what the "red shirt" issue is. The last few posts you here have made it alot clearer.
You had stated "I can't even get our people to dig into their pockets for $5.00 to help defray legal costs to fight the enviros!!! " Is there somewhere to donate to help with the costs? From what I've read you're the driving force in the legal aspect of this issue.
I would hate to loose something that everyone here enjoys, and literrally takes advantage of.
As Joe stated earlier, Pay some now and enjoy, or Pay more later and hope you get the opportunity to 4 Wheel again.
If you don't do anything now, don't piss and moan later.
Thanks Walter


For Arizona OHV enthusiasts to raise enough dollars ($100,000.00 - $200,000.00 per suit) is impossible. Three years ago I worked out a deal with ORBA (Off Road Business Association) to allow our clubs to "sponsor" a local OHV business. By being a member of ORBA ALL the dollars from membership go to legal and/or political support. ORBA has fought several issues for us as well as actually gave us $2500.00 to help fight the Pygmy Owl issue here in Arizona. AZVJC had committed to sponsoring Hunter Off Road but it has been like pulling teeth, (or probably more like running your favorite 4x4 vehicle off a cliff with no insurance) to get each AZVJC member to donate $5.00 each year to the Hunter Off Road fund. A $1,000.00 per year per OHV business will truly help us to "stand toe to toe" with the enviros as well as the land management agencies. Hunters 4th quarter dues have yet to be paid from 2005................. WHY or HOW do we make everyone understand this is important?

Someone (please stand up) has set up a Pay Pal account to make it easy for EVERYONE to donate to the ORBA fund. AZVJC has consensus to support Hunter Off Road...... why not more?

I will be off email for the next couple of days. Have a BLM Resource Advisory Council meeting in north Phoenix. Back on Friday.

Jdemonto
12-05-2006, 10:19 PM
Sounds like no one knows of this donation???? First time I have heard....

WalterD
12-06-2006, 07:59 PM
Sounds like no one knows of this donation???? First time I have heard....

Maybe it's old news, that's new to alot of others. Could the donation issue be brought out again? Alot of people come and go, and things get put by the wayside and forgotten. Could be time to revitalize the donation program and get it back as a topic for all those who never heard of it. Such as myself.
Thanks Walter

ShottsCruisers
01-02-2007, 03:44 PM
Any update on FR42 Sandee?

Sandee McCullen
01-02-2007, 08:52 PM
Any update on FR42 Sandee?

Nothing other than what I posted earlier............ FR42 will not be open until mid year 2007 or later. The entire area needs to be fenced, trails still need to be found and FR42 needs a lot of work..................... FS has no money although the OHV Gas Tax dollars through Az State Parks is available for this area as a pilot project so they'll get some funds. Soon we will need a number of volunteers to help with the signing and fencing. Will post as soon as this comes together.

aszaunmi
01-03-2007, 05:01 AM
Great, I would be more than willing to help out with putting up signs or fence materials. Thanks for the hard work you are doing to help out all of us. Happy New year!

Z

Jdemonto
01-03-2007, 09:07 AM
I will volunteer as well, when the time comes. FR-42 is close to work and I was hitting it once a week back in the day!!!


Jason

ShottsCruisers
01-03-2007, 11:16 AM
Nothing other than what I posted earlier............ FR42 will not be open until mid year 2007 or later. The entire area needs to be fenced, trails still need to be found and FR42 needs a lot of work..................... FS has no money although the OHV Gas Tax dollars through Az State Parks is available for this area as a pilot project so they'll get some funds. Soon we will need a number of volunteers to help with the signing and fencing. Will post as soon as this comes together.

Thank you Sandee.

blk88
03-23-2007, 11:02 PM
Thanks Sandee! You provided a wealth of info. I would like to get more involved with the trail preservation efforts. I also agree with Joe that people need to stop complaining about $ for recreation. If they don't pay the fee the privilege will go away. A family would spend more at a night of dinner than for permits to have much entertianment and is money well spent going to a great purpose. There are many great trails in AZ to enjoy while waiting for the proper recovery of FR42. Thanks again!

Jdemonto
03-23-2007, 11:26 PM
Are we still aiming for summer 2007???? I have not heard anything about needing volunteering to help?????

Jason

Sandee McCullen
03-26-2007, 12:37 AM
Are we still aiming for summer 2007???? I have not heard anything about needing volunteering to help?????

Jason

The whole deal is on hold for the time being due to the massive time and staff needed for the ongoing Forest Plans and the Transportation Plans. I think the Coalition has received some extra grant dollars to allow us to purchase some of the signs and fencing so maybe we'll be able to get it moving.

The MOST IMPORTANT thing we MUST DO RIGHT NOW is get this entire area into the Forest Plans and the upcoming Transportation plans. We MUST let F/S know we need and want this area for motorized recreation and are willing to help make it sustainable.

CjCarl
03-26-2007, 12:22 PM
How do we go about getting this area into the forest and transportation plans? is there someone in the f/s that we can email about this? Also, if there is any need for volunteers for putting up signage or whatever, you can count me in. i really miss this trail.

Sandee McCullen
03-26-2007, 05:28 PM
How do we go about getting this area into the forest and transportation plans? is there someone in the f/s that we can email about this? Also, if there is any need for volunteers for putting up signage or whatever, you can count me in. i really miss this trail.

ATTEND THE PLANNING MEETINGS. Cave Creek Forest planning meeting was a couple of weeks ago. We need to be involved in the Forest planning to identify AREAS of motorized recreation. The Transportation Planning which will be starting soon will identify individual routes. Not sure when the next planning meetings are planned but these meetings will be posted as have all previous meetings.

Most times we only get 24 hrs - 48 hours notice so most seem to whine about no notice or being too tired or some such similar issues. If this continues we ALL lose......... 6-12 activists CANNOT do it all. It takes ALL to be heard. SOME can be done via email comments but we all need to be at the table somewhere through this. F/S is spending a lot of time and dollars to allow stakeholders to be at the table............. hopefully we all take advantage of this.

Fire Ball
03-26-2007, 06:58 PM
I have gone to every meeting that has not been when I'm working.

Sandy who is in charge of the coalition web site. I'm working on doing one that will directly tie into AZOHVC, Tread lightly and many others. The guy who said he will help me with mine said he would be interested in helping out the coalition too. Best part he is one of us and he is volunteering.

Sandee McCullen
03-26-2007, 10:46 PM
I have gone to every meeting that has not been when I'm working.

Sandy who is in charge of the coalition web site. I'm working on doing one that will directly tie into AZOHVC, Tread lightly and many others. The guy who said he will help me with mine said he would be interested in helping out the coalition too. Best part he is one of us and he is volunteering.

Bill Hooven, an AZVJC member, that recently moved to Tennessee. He was bogged down for awhile with personal things but is now back to updating the AZOHVC WEB page. I just returned from a week long OHV Conference in West Virginia and don't know the status right now but I'll certainly keep in touch. Anyone interested in helping with a WEB page is truly treasured.

ShottsCruisers
05-20-2008, 01:08 PM
OK...so it's mid 2008. Any news on FR42?

Antman
05-20-2008, 02:19 PM
All I can say, having a family member who works for the FS, is they are the
most mismanaged, misaligned, illogical, empire building bunch of idiots I have
ever seen, bar none! I am totally amazed at their bureaucracy, nothing matters
but "my" own kingdom. There is absolutely no logic to what they are doing in
each area. GOD HELP US ALL!

lostoffroad
05-20-2008, 05:31 PM
no kidding, they are very disorganized. it looks great out there and still they wont open it. we live in a desert, of course there is gonna be fires. ok give it a few yrs and let us back on our land dangit.

FrenchChili
05-20-2008, 06:02 PM
I've been to one of their meeting which kinda involved FR42, have not been updated since. Funny, while running Sunflower with Jason D. last weekend we were talking "about FR42 and where are the news?"

Jdemonto
05-20-2008, 06:19 PM
I've been to one of their meeting which kinda involved FR42, have not been updated since. Funny, while running Sunflower with Jason D. last weekend we were talking "about FR42 and where are the news?"

X2...Any more meetings we can attent with the cave creek forest district??? I am sure most of the bushes have grown back a bit by now?? Its been 3 years!!!

Jason