Teraflex or Rubicon Express

[Heaney]

Teraflex or Rubicon Express? Which would you use?

[Jeeppeepin]

Why only those two choices? :confused:

[Heaney]

Those are just the two that I have been looking at. If there are others that I should consider due to quality, please let me know.

[Triple-XJ]

If its just the 2, then its a no-brainer for me. RE over TF ;)

[LKD TJ]

If its just the 2, then its a no-brainer for me. RE over TF ;)

I would agree with the RE being a better lift than the TF, but bang for the buck, I would go with the Rock Krawler 4.5 it has a triangulated 4 link in the rear and uses all heims. The RE kit is good and that is what I am using right now but I am taking out the rear and going to put in the Rock Krawler.

Edited

[tyota]

hmmmm....this is where the Rockkrawler plug comes in:D
I even know someone who sells it:D

[xFallen]

I wouldn't do either. I researched the RE LA kits, Teraflex including LCG and Full Traction. Rock Krawler XDLA was the predominant price/performance leader and I would make the same decision today even with the few problems I encountered. Every lift has issues. I had an RE SA kit prior and it worked just fine for what I wanted at the time.

It really all depends on what YOU want out of a lift. The RK pretty much covers all the bases, IMO.


Barry

[JamesT]

I wouldn't do either.

X2.........

[desertfabmotors]

FYI, Some of the kits take more maint. than others. Depends on what you want and how hard you are going to wheel it.

[Heaney]

It is mainly going to be my DD. It will never see Anaconda, however, I would like eventually to go out to some tougher trails. Maybe a LA kit isn't what I need.

[Spongebob]

For the type of wheeling that I do (3.0 to 3.5 rated trails) the Teraflex 3" SA kit works fine for me. I have a couple of complaints with it...namely the control arm bushings are crap but I have replaced mine with Daystar bushings. Also the springs are softer/weaker, but this makes the ride down the highway comfortable.

In short, if you do occassional wheeling and don't want to spend $4k or $5k on a LA lift, the Teraflex lifts are OK....you'll just have to do maintenance on it from time to time. If you want to do a lot of wheeling on really hard trails, go with the Rock Krawler setup.



Cheers,

[desertdawg]

X2 on what Clayton said. My Jeep came with the TeraFlex from the dealer. My LCA bushings wore out at about 4000 miles. I also replaced mine with the Daystar. It has served me well since I've had it, but plan on upgrading to something better in the future.

[DsrtJeeper]

It is mainly going to be my DD. It will never see Anaconda, however, I would like eventually to go out to some tougher trails. Maybe a LA kit isn't what I need.

Sounds like the RE short arm kit is right down your alley. It's a very cost effective kit that flexes quite well. The kit is proven and the RE coils are some of the best. Being a DD; I believe the RE cartridge joints will suit you very well. With a 1" BL you can run 35's like Wind_Danzer. Good luck!!!

[T.C.'S TOY]

I Went With The Re Long Arm And Really Am Putting It Threw The Mill Of Harder Trails And Am Having No Problems With It Holding Up.from What You Are Saying About Sticking To The 3.5 Trails The Re Short Arm Is What I Would Go To Although Have Seen Them Handle Harder Trails Also .Thom (T.C.'s Toy):)

[Y2K-XJ]

Sounds like the RE short arm kit is right down your alley. It's a very cost effective kit that flexes quite well. The kit is proven and the RE coils are some of the best. Being a DD; I believe the RE cartridge joints will suit you very well. With a 1" BL you can run 35's like Wind_Danzer. Good luck!!!

There it is!
I agree 100%;)

[SavageSun4x4]

Based upon your desires to have a good ride and a good lift, I can't recommend any of the kits.

But I am not kit person. That said I would just build my own kit and by that I mean pick components that work very well.

Nth degree springs
JKS arms [uses OEM bushings for a good ride]
Teraflex disconnects or Currie Anti Rock
RE/Currie/JKS track bars [take your pick] Do this last as you might not need one, I still run an OEM TB on the rear.

You didn't say if you were planning on any kind of belly skid, but if you do, there are several that are of high quality. Nth, Medic, 33 Engineering for some of the HD units that are 1/4". The thinner ones 3/16th are ok, I ran one for 2+ years with no issues. Teraflex makes a good one. However be cautious here as if you go too flat then you will need a SYE and a CV Drive shaft.

For a starter go with LCAs that are adjustable. You can always add UCAs later if needed. Most lifts under 4" do not need UCAs that are adjustable and unless you are banging the 5+ trails not really needed. The upper OEM arm is a stout unit and I ran an OEM upper up until I added my Dyna 60's and I never bent one.

On the other hand a kit has all the parts your need and can be installed at one time saving you a lot of driveway wrenching.

You make the call:)

[Offroader5]

I voted RE just because of all the past issues I've heard through the grapevine over the years about Tera's products.

If it were on the list, I would vote for Full Traction...I've seen the kit and how it works on those TJ's and I liked it enough to think about their kit for my XJ.

[twstdtj]

Ive been running the RE 5.5 ED LA for over a year now. It has my vote over the Tera kit, however if was going to do a "kit again" I would personnaly chose the RK kit. I have seen it in action and it is very impressive for a "kit".

Some issues Ive had with my RE kit are as follows:

All rubber bushings were replaced at approx 6 months (they were desintigrating).

I've bent one rear lower control arm (My fault)

The kit takes constant maintance if you wheel hard. It likes grease, otherwise it starts talking to you.

The front setup actually limits articulation due to the cartidge design and the fact that the uppers are tied to the lowers.

Savage Sun has a very good point if you have the time and $$$ get the best of both worlds.

Im am going to a custom setup in the very near future (using RK components and some of my desin) to improve where the "kit" has found its shortcomings (or I have found its short comings)

JMO

[DsrtJeeper]

Ive been running the RE 5.5 ED LA for over a year now. It has my vote over the Tera kit, however if was going to do a "kit again" I would personnaly chose the RK kit. I have seen it in action and it is very impressive for a "kit".

Some issues Ive had with my RE kit are as follows:

All rubber bushings were replaced at approx 6 months (they were desintigrating).

I've bent one rear lower control arm (My fault)

The kit takes constant maintance if you wheel hard. It likes grease, otherwise it starts talking to you.

The front setup actually limits articulation due to the cartidge design and the fact that the uppers are tied to the lowers.

Savage Sun has a very good point if you have the time and $$$ get the best of both worlds.

Im am going to a custom setup in the very near future (using RK components and some of my desin) to improve where the "kit" has found its shortcomings (or I have found its short comings)

JMO

Jeff;
Disconnect your front shocks or throw some 14" shocks on there. Now tell me if the radius arms are limiting your travel. ;) I suspect you'll have a new found respect for the RE design.

I agree on rubber bushings and cartridge joints not being up to the task of lots of hardcore wheeling. My new build is using all heim joints. The heims won't last as long as cartridge joints but will provide a consistent feel without the bad effects of sloppy cartridge and rubber joints. It eventually comes down to whether you want a good ride or a good rock crawler. I chose the latter. Screw the ride; it's a Jeep!!! :D

[Heaney]

Thank you for the imput.

[Offroader5]

Jeff;
Disconnect your front shocks or throw some 14" shocks on there. Now tell me if the radius arms are limiting your travel. ;) I suspect you'll have a new found respect for the RE design.

I agree on rubber bushings and cartridge joints not being up to the task of lots of hardcore wheeling. My new build is using all heim joints. The heims won't last as long as cartridge joints but will provide a consistent feel without the bad effects of sloppy cartridge and rubber joints. It eventually comes down to whether you want a good ride or a good rock crawler. I chose the latter. Screw the ride; it's a Jeep!!! :D

If your seeing sloppy cartridge joints, they weren't tightened correctly or weren't maintained as they wear. Cartridge joints are just as tight as rod ends if they are put together right. Rod ends are far from a "consistent" feel. once the inner race starts to wear...there's hardly a consistency to them and they have to be replaced to get the tight feel back. As the cartridge joints wear, they can be re-tightened to allow for more usage and life out of the races. Also, a large cartridge joint runs $30 to $40 a piece with rebuild races running $10, while you could pay $60 to $75 for a quality rod end and still have to purchase the misalignment spacers.

Now if we really wanted to compare the wear of each...that gets a little more involved. The weight if the vehicle is a large factor in the equation. Let's say your rig weighs 4K to 5K lbs., if your running only 3/4" rod ends, chances are you'll be replacing them often (if you actually wheel:)). Vise versa, if you use 1 1/4" rod ends on a light 3K lb. buggy...you be running those ends for some time before they wear out.

[tomfooshee]

I've got the Rubicon Express long arm kit. 5.5" and have had it for a couple of years now. I love it. 4wheelers put it in and did it right. I had origionally ordered the 4.5 and kept waiting for it to come in. Well some person had ordered the 5.5 or 6" kit and decided he didn't want it so 4wheelers gave it to me for the same as the 4.5.

[DsrtJeeper]

If your seeing sloppy cartridge joints, they weren't tightened correctly or weren't maintained as they wear. Cartridge joints are just as tight as rod ends if they are put together right. Rod ends are far from a "consistent" feel. once the inner race starts to wear...there's hardly a consistency to them and they have to be replaced to get the tight feel back. As the cartridge joints wear, they can be re-tightened to allow for more usage and life out of the races. Also, a large cartridge joint runs $30 to $40 a piece with rebuild races running $10, while you could pay $60 to $75 for a quality rod end and still have to purchase the misalignment spacers.

Now if we really wanted to compare the wear of each...that gets a little more involved. The weight if the vehicle is a large factor in the equation. Let's say your rig weighs 4K to 5K lbs., if your running only 3/4" rod ends, chances are you'll be replacing them often (if you actually wheel:)). Vise versa, if you use 1 1/4" rod ends on a light 3K lb. buggy...you be running those ends for some time before they wear out.

Not true. The cartridge joints I used were not adjustable. The inner races egg shaped in short time allowing water and dirt to enter the inners. The centering ball is constantly pushing the grease back out of the joint instead of allowing it to stay in. They need constant greasing. The rear joint in my old tri-link would go out every 4 months. That is no lie. I wheel with plenty of friends who use adjustable cartridge joints and I hear the same comments from these guys. Constantly greasing, tightening and rebuilding the joints when wheeled extremely hard. You're preaching to the wrong choir about maintenance because I'm all over that. My main beef is with rubber and plastics in AZ and in rock crawling. I've been through the various suspension designs and I wish I could say the experience was better. Heims are my last hope. If I need to go bigger; I will.

A good QA1 heim made of chromoly and lined with teflon/kevlar is only $39.00.
Also; rebuidable heims are now available from several companies.

If you have to ask if I really wheel then you haven't been here very long. :rolleyes:

Who knows; maybe I'm talking out the wrong side as usual.

[SavageSun4x4]

Not true. The cartridge joints I used were not adjustable. The inner races egg shaped in short time allowing water and dirt to enter the inners. The centering ball is constantly pushing the grease back out of the joint instead of allowing it to stay in. They need constant greasing. The rear joint in my old tri-link would go out every 4 months. That is no lie. I wheel with plenty of friends who use adjustable cartridge joints and I hear the same comments from these guys. Constantly greasing, tightening and rebuilding the joints when wheeled extremely hard. You're preaching to the wrong choir about maintenance because I'm all over that. My main beef is with rubber and plastics in AZ and in rock crawling. I've been through the various suspension designs and I wish I could say the experience was better. Heims are my last hope. If I need to go bigger; I will.

A good QA1 heim made of chromoly and lined with teflon/kevlar is only $39.00.
Also; rebuidable heims are now available from several companies.

If you have to ask if I really wheel then you haven't been here very long. :rolleyes:

Who knows; maybe I'm talking out the wrong side as usual.

Eric is pretty much on. I run OEM rubber joints and the beating they take out here is brutal. In fact I need to be on a replacement schedule of at least once a year whereas in Texas including my multiple trips yearly to Moab, I only needed to replace about once every other year. That said: Reguardless of your choice in joints if you will just follow some simple rules the exper will be much better.

* Buy better quality
* Size is for your ride and its weight
* 10 min of Preventive maintenance is worth 1 hour of repair
* Inspect your rig Before and AFTER you wheel.
* Keep your belly clean, a dirty Jeep is an unhappy Jeep.
:eek: :eek:

[Offroader5]

Not true. The cartridge joints I used were not adjustable. The inner races egg shaped in short time allowing water and dirt to enter the inners. The centering ball is constantly pushing the grease back out of the joint instead of allowing it to stay in. They need constant greasing. The rear joint in my old tri-link would go out every 4 months. That is no lie. I wheel with plenty of friends who use adjustable cartridge joints and I hear the same comments from these guys. Constantly greasing, tightening and rebuilding the joints when wheeled extremely hard. You're preaching to the wrong choir about maintenance because I'm all over that. My main beef is with rubber and plastics in AZ and in rock crawling. I've been through the various suspension designs and I wish I could say the experience was better. Heims are my last hope. If I need to go bigger; I will.

A good QA1 heim made of chromoly and lined with teflon/kevlar is only $39.00.
Also; rebuidable heims are now available from several companies.

If you have to ask if I really wheel then you haven't been here very long. :rolleyes:

Who knows; maybe I'm talking out the wrong side as usual.


I should have said Johnny Joint and alike cartridges with dual snap rings and no screw in "thrust washer" are a dfiferent story cause they are non-adjustable, but the adjustable one's should not have slop period. If it's tight....it's tight.

I have heard QA1 ends are supposed to be pretty good, but I have also heard them mentioned in the same class as Aurora's and Aurora's are junk for our use. I have always been told for what we do to our rigs, that FK rod ends are the one's to get...and they run a little more than $39 for a large 1" or 1 1/4" size. Unless I was building a light buggy, I'd never use anything smaller than a 7/8" rod end. If I was putting it under a 4500 lb fully loaded XJ, I'd most likely go with the 1" or 1 1/4" just for the strength ratings alone.

BTW...I didn't ask if you really wheeled, the "your" & "you" in my post was meant to convey the concensus or someone in general.

[SavageSun4x4]

I have always been told for what we do to our rigs, that FK rod ends are the one's to get..
John what are you calling a 'FK' joint and do you have a link to any?

Thanks

[xFallen]

Not true. The cartridge joints I used were not adjustable. The inner races egg shaped in short time allowing water and dirt to enter the inners. The centering ball is constantly pushing the grease back out of the joint instead of allowing it to stay in. They need constant greasing. The rear joint in my old tri-link would go out every 4 months. That is no lie. I wheel with plenty of friends who use adjustable cartridge joints and I hear the same comments from these guys. Constantly greasing, tightening and rebuilding the joints when wheeled extremely hard. You're preaching to the wrong choir about maintenance because I'm all over that. My main beef is with rubber and plastics in AZ and in rock crawling. I've been through the various suspension designs and I wish I could say the experience was better. Heims are my last hope. If I need to go bigger; I will.

A good QA1 heim made of chromoly and lined with teflon/kevlar is only $39.00.
Also; rebuidable heims are now available from several companies.

If you have to ask if I really wheel then you haven't been here very long. :rolleyes:

Who knows; maybe I'm talking out the wrong side as usual.

I like the QA1 joints too.

However, have you checked the RK Krawler Joint? They may be a good alternative for your needs. I have no idea of their cost but Nick or Joe should be able to provide that. They claim to be rebuildable. They do not apear to be adjustable like others I have seen but that can be answered by the RK experts. I can say that they do seem to be standing up nicely.

This will give you an idea of what they have been through. If it is enough data or not is up to you so conclude what you will. These are the trails I have done since putting on this lift, and I may have missed a few:
Raw Deal x 3
Upper Raw Deal
Lower Terminator x 2
Judgement Day
Highway to Hell
the Woodpeckers x 2
Ajax(s) x 2
Ruler
Firebird and whatever WT trails lead to these
Chivo Falls
various exploratory excursions on possibly yet unnamed "trails" :rolleyes:
street driven 3-7 days a week depending on mood, weather and state of repair :D

Of those only Highway to Hell was particularly demanding but opportunities for fun were taken on all the trails where they are presented.

The Krawler Joints are not showing any external visible signs of wear. The joints are greasible although they have been greased perhaps twice. They really won't take much due to their design. I was told the zerks were there for marketing reasons. Who knows if this is true. It is plausible given the materials.

I have replaced the hiems on the rear UCA because they were showing signs of damage from over flex. They were not loose or excessively worn where it matters, however. I would not expect anyone to suffer failures or premature wear on those hiems. These ones do NOT have zerks and show no visible signs of wear.

The heep has been washed maybe three times (sad but true Don, even though your advice is sage) and has been submersed in water up to its belly (the point being immersing the joints) maybe three times.

I would offer to take one apart for inspection as I am kind of curious to see how they are holding up internally but would prefer to leave well enough alone. I want to have trail spares (*cough* stock them *cough* :rolleyes: ) and if we had one of those it could be taken apart.

Okay...last post on this thread for me...I think this one has been hi-jacked. :D Sorry.


Barry

[DsrtJeeper]

I like the QA1 joints too.

However, have you checked the RK Krawler Joint? They may be a good alternative for your needs. I have no idea of their cost but Nick or Joe should be able to provide that. They claim to be rebuildable. They do not apear to be adjustable like others I have seen but that can be answered by the RK experts. I can say that they do seem to be standing up nicely.

This will give you an idea of what they have been through. If it is enough data or not is up to you so conclude what you will. These are the trails I have done since putting on this lift, and I may have missed a few:
Raw Deal x 3
Upper Raw Deal
Lower Terminator x 2
Judgement Day
Highway to Hell
the Woodpeckers x 2
Ajax(s) x 2
Ruler
Firebird and whatever WT trails lead to these
Chivo Falls
various exploratory excursions on possibly yet unnamed "trails" :rolleyes:
street driven 3-7 days a week depending on mood, weather and state of repair :D

Of those only Highway to Hell was particularly demanding but opportunities for fun were taken on all the trails where they are presented.

The Krawler Joints are not showing any external visible signs of wear. The joints are greasible although they have been greased perhaps twice. They really won't take much due to their design. I was told the zerks were there for marketing reasons. Who knows if this is true. It is plausible given the materials.

I have replaced the hiems on the rear UCA because they were showing signs of damage from over flex. They were not loose or excessively worn where it matters, however. I would not expect anyone to suffer failures or premature wear on those hiems. These ones do NOT have zerks and show no visible signs of wear.

The heep has been washed maybe three times (sad but true Don, even though your advice is sage) and has been submersed in water up to its belly (the point being immersing the joints) maybe three times.

I would offer to take one apart for inspection as I am kind of curious to see how they are holding up internally but would prefer to leave well enough alone. I want to have trail spares (*cough* stock them *cough* :rolleyes: ) and if we had one of those it could be taken apart.

Okay...last post on this thread for me...I think this one has been hi-jacked. :D Sorry.


Barry

Yes; the heims today are quite a bit better due to our increasing demands on them. I have looked into the RK joints and they still remain a viable option. It's trails like Diehard, Collateral Damage, Skull Crusher and the various trails in Montrose; CO. that show the true colors of each type of joint. I tend to be the loose nut behind the wheel who tries all the optional lines and I do push my Jeep hard.

Having been a heavy equipment operator in another life; I can assure you that even the lightest piece of equipment did not use rubber, poly or cartridge joints. Just look at a 3 point hitch on a tractor. Heims everywhere and they lasted for years and years. When looking for a joint to go that extra mile; offroad racers rely on the heim for longevity and dependability. Cartridge joints and rubber bushings were designed for vibration absorbtion and a nice ride. They are a compromise between good flex and good ride quality. I'm done compromising and I'm building for durability on the hardest of trails. Everyone's mileage may very due to different driving habits. Slowly but surely, companies are starting to adress these issues. Companies like Full Traction, Skycrapper, Tera, RK, 505 Performance and Fabtech are using heim joints in their lifts. Some are better than others and it's up to the consumer as to what he/she prefers.

For the average wheeler; you can't beat the proven designs from RE. JMHO...
Great ride, excellent coils and exceptional trail performance. ;)

[SavageSun4x4]

The heep has been washed maybe three times (sad but true Don, even though your advice is sage)
Barry

Barry, LOL, you don't have wash your jeep, just keep it clean underneath so you can inspect for damage or potential damage
:)

[Offroader5]

John what are you calling a 'FK' joint and do you have a link to any?

Thanks

FK is another brand of rod ends just like saying Aurora or QA1.
FK Rod Ends (http://www.fkrodends.com/)

Those Krawler Joints look pretty good, especially at that price and if they will truly live up to that strength rating (which I am sure they've done some sort of testing to find the strength). Essentially it's still a cartridge joint, just put together a little bit differently than all the rest, and they come with the male shank already attached (unlike alot of the others).

[xFallen]

Barry, LOL, you don't have wash your jeep, just keep it clean underneath so you can inspect for damage or potential damage
:)

I know. Just poking some fun and acknowledging your excellent advice and taking the opportujnity to raise the point for others (again).

I keep paint handy for reasons we have discussed, but I even put little dabs of it on the odd fastener here and there. Not to keep them in place, but to be able to immediately tell if they have moved. After a run I usually creep around underneath for 30 minutes just gawking at stuff, tapping things with a wrench, touching up this and that...you know the drill because I know we do the same damn thing. :D

Now we have WAY hijacked this thread. :)


Barry

[DsrtJeeper]

What were we talking about again??? :D

[SavageSun4x4]

FK is another brand of rod ends just like saying Aurora or QA1.
FK Rod Ends (http://www.fkrodends.com/)


Thanks, you might want to check out:
http://www.midwestcontrol.com/

[xFallen]

What were we talking about again??? :D


The suspension of Heaney's pole. :eek: errr...I mean...suspension poll.

[Offroader5]

All of us should just run Evo's and call it done
http://www.evolutionmachine.com/images/services/Pictureheim%20019.jpg
:D

[DsrtJeeper]

All of us should just run Evo's and call it done
http://www.evolutionmachine.com/images/services/Pictureheim%20019.jpg
:D

Now that's what I'm talking about!!! Canadian manufacturing at it's best. Those babies are pricey too. :D

[dirtgrip]

Stay away from Terraflex.The only parts left of the 4in SA lift I got 4yrs ago is the springs & they are due for replacement.I vote for Clayton LA but they do make a SA lift-call for more info.http://www.claytonoffroad.com/

[Papa Mo]

I have the Rubicon 4.5" and I love it!

[aussie_ian]

i have the 5.5 rela very happy with it!

[ltklein]

I have the 4.5" RE Long-Arm, put it on myself last Xmas and don't have any complaints.
That said, I can't really say the other is better or worse. It's hard to find opinions from those who have actually installed/used both...

If you want to go the RE route, and have questions...shoot 'em my way and I'll tell ya what I know...

[terron gregg]

look at the origanal date of the post i wonder which one he went with

[cecil]

I have the RE 5.5 LA on an Unlimited and could not be happier!