blooddrive
01-03-2004, 12:10 PM
19370-19394
19370 From: Scott Kruize <osmtj@y...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 0:50am
Subject: Re: TR - Bartlett Lake rollover -- part 2 - the roll
Len,
Wow, what an adventure!
This goes to show how unprepared most people are to go offroading. Most of us are so used to offroading with safety in mind that we forget how we picked up these skills over time. I can't believe they were not wearing seatbelts. I guess its like they say - you can't legislate common sense.
I look forward to reading part 3 :)
Scott
Len Sullivan wrote:
While the rest of us had lunch, one of the Blazer drivers (Kevin) did some
carb work to his truck. He had only bought it one week earlier, and this
was it's first time off pavement with him. It ran fine when it was level,
but every bump made it stall and hill climbs required a lot of throttle to
keep the engine from loading up and stalling out. Kevin had the top off of
his Blazer, and had installed an extra bucket seat in the back so that it
would seat 5 people. The 4 folks in the RV all piled in with him when we
left to go out for another trail ride after lunch.
Instead of hitting the trails next to the campsite, we headed back down the
beach to hook up with some of the other trails in the area. Pam, Nathan,
and I were in the #6 spot of our convoy with Dominic+Amanda and Mike+his
family+Kathy behind us. Kevin was bringing up the rear with his friend Otto
(from the RV), Otto's wife, their daughter and her boyfriend with him.
About 1/3 of the way from the campsite to the entrance the lake-side path we
were on had a fork in it. One path followed the beach and was nice and
smooth.....the other fork went up over a saddle and followed along in a mild
off camber side hill leaning towards the lower part of the trail. The
vehicles in front of me all took the low road, but I had seen Mike drive
over the saddle on the way in and wanted to try it for myself. The saddle
was only about 8 feet tall, but the side I was approaching from was steep
enough that I was worried about my front tow hook scraping as I approached
it. Anybody who has been on a trail ride with me has seen me hanging out
the window as I climb things, and this time was no different. Once I
started climbing the saddle my hood blocked all forward visibility, so I
just hung out the side and followed the contour of the hill through the very
slight left turn required at the top and continued on down the off camber
(to the drivers side) side hill trail to where it reconnected with the main
path. Dominic came over behind me, then Mike also came up and over the
saddle.
I watched over my shoulder until I saw the front of Kevin's Blazer crest the
saddle, then went back to my own driving. Just a second later, I heard a
horrendous CRASH from behind me. Looking over my shoulder again, I saw
Kevin's Blazer sitting on its roof halfway between the top path and the
bottom path. As I watched, the Blazer rolled over down the hill onto the
passenger side, spilling out three people and all of the parts and coolers
that were in the back. Pam also heard the crash and saw part of the roll.
She bailed out the passenger side of my truck and was running back along the
beach before I even got the truck stopped and turned off. Once my truck was
secure, I also sprinted back to see what kind of carnage there was.
The scene when I got to the accident is still kind of a blur. I remember
running around through the pile of people trying to see who was hurt and how
badly. Since the Blazer did not have the top on and only had a roll bar
(not a cage), I expected to find some pretty serious
injuries........possibly deaths. Otto had already popped out throught the
windshield opening and was checking on his family. His wife was dazed, but
was sitting up apparently unhurt. Likewise with his daughter's boyfriend.
His daughter however, was lying on the ground not moving and obviously in
great pain. Kevin was still stuck inside the cab of the Blazer.
I honestly don't remember anyone else coming to the scene, but suddenly
there was a croud of people all trying to help. By the time I finished
locating all of the passengers, Pam was already working on the Christy (the
daughter). Kevin was pretty well beat up but was able to climb out throught
the windshield opening by himself. We got all of the passengers seated in a
group and started checking them out. Otto, his wife, and his daughters
boyfriend all just had a few minor scrapes and bruises. Several other
people were assisting Pam with caring for Christy, so Amanda and I started
looking after Kevin. Even though he had been bounced around the cab and had
hit his head pretty hard, he was more concerned with everyone else than with
himself and wanted to go help. He was bleeding from his head injury, so
keeping him quiet and calm was imperative. We made a big deal of bandaging
a small cut on his elbow mainly so that we'd have an excuse to keep him
sitting down.
I really have to say at this point how proud I am of Pam and the way she
handled the emergency. She identified Christy as the most seriously hurt
person even before I had completed my running inspection (injuries, possible
vehicle fire, etc) and took charge of her care immediately. She had help
from several other people, and I knew that if she needed me she was let me
know, so I went on to other things. She was perfect. Clear orders, proper
emergency procedures, all of it. When the paramedics arrived, she had
Christy immobilized and was able to give a full report of definate and
possible injuries complete with vitals, pupil responses, motor
control.....the works.
The guy in the Dodge Ram had raced up the beach to a call box and summoned
help when the rollover first occurred. The first response was from a county
Sheriff, followed closely by a Forest Service paramedic. The Forest Service
medic had driven so hard to get there that his brakes were almost on
fire......we could smell them from 50 feet away. With the official
emergency personell on site, the rest of us dropped back out of the way and
let them do their job while we secured the area. Mike's wife Laurie took
charge of all the kids, some other people started picking up all the debris
from the rollover, and about 6 others (including Mike and I) started looking
after the Blazer.
The Blazer was still sitting on its passenger side and was dumping fluids at
an alarming rate........most importantly gasoline out of the filler neck.
After running a tow strap from it to another vehicle to keep it from sliding
into the water, a bunch of us pushed it back over onto it's wheels. Mike
grabbed a shovel and started burying the spilled gasoline to reduce fire
danger. At one time I counted 6 different fire extinguishers spread out on
the ground around the truck, so everyone was very aware of the possible
danger.
A Scottsdale Rural Metro ambulance showed up a little while after the Forest
Service medic, but they decided that with Christy's possible spinal injuries
and Kevin's head injury it would be best to fly both of them out. The
MedEvac choppers only hold 1 patient, so 2 different helicopters had to be
called in to fly them into town. Otto and the rest of the family were in
good enough shape to drive themselves to the hospital, so they headed back
to the campsite to get their RV and drive out with Pam accompanying them.
Injury totals:
Christy fell out of the back of the Blazer when it was upside down, landing
on her head and neck. As she fell out, her legs were tangled in the seat
just enough to cause her to do the splits when she hit which resulted in the
dislocation of both of her hips. She also received a cut behind her left
ear and a patch of "road rash" that extended from her chest to her knees.
Her hips popped back into place while she was being placed onto the back
board. The head injury required 8 stitches. No broken bones.
Otto's wife received only minor scrapes and bruises.
Christy's boyfriend was uninjured.
Otto and Kevin (in the front seats) were not wearing seatbelts, so they fell
on each other as the truck rolled. Both of them are pretty big
boys.....Kevin weighs in at 275 and Otto is even larger. Otto has some
bruises and a couple of cuts from crawling out through the windshield
opening, but no other injuries.
Kevin bruised both thighs when he hit the steering wheel, and has an egg
sized knot on his head and a mild concussion from hitting a metal grab
handle inside the cab.
Both Kevin and Christy had been released from the hospital by the time I got
there.
The accident:
It wasn't until after everyone else was gone that I really got a chance to
talk with Mike about what really happened. Mike was in front of Kevin and
saw the whole thing in his rear view mirror. Remember the slight left turn
I mentioned at the top of the saddle? Apparently Kevin wasn't able to see
the turn and went straight up the saddle. When he didn't turn, his
passenger side front tire continued climbing up the side of the saddle onto
a rock shelf while the drivers side started down the back side of the saddle
and into a rut that had been formed in the trail. This put the passenger
side almost 6 feet higher than the drivers side in less than a second. At
the height of the travel on the passenger side, the beads blew out on BOTH
drivers side tires and over it went.
On the way home that night, I had a long talk with Kathy and Nathan (my
kids) about the accident so that they would understand it and not be
frightened. We talked about the injuries and the actual mechanism of how
and why the truck rolled over. The second really proud moment of the day
came when the kids told me why they thought it had happened:
Kathy (age 9): "He didn't get out and look at the hill like you
do.......and he didn't have somebody stand there and direct him either."
Nathan (age 7): "He was going to fast too........he should have put it in 4
low"
And most important (from both of them): "They should have been wearing
their seatbelts like we do"
'Nuff said.
tomorrow part 3.......the recovery
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19371 From: David Burke <davewburke@y...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 4:39am
Subject: Re: Need help installing rock lights
Rick,
Stu's wiring diagram is perfect for what you need. You can use one relay, as his diagram illustrates, if your total power output of your lights doesn't exceed 200 watts or so. This will enable you to run the lights thru one relay and using a 20 Amp fuse. If you plan on more then 200 watts, then you must use two relays and split the lights between them. I am not a fan of crimp connectors, so I solder and heat shrink all of the connections and use at least 14 gauge wire. Good luck.
-dave
Rick Norman wrote:
I am finally getting around to installing some rock lights underneath my XJ. I have (4) 55W driving lights from Harbor Freight. I think they are still on sale for $19.99 (normally 39.99) if anyones interested. Recently, there was a post concerning wiring in 2 relays with one switch to control 4 lights. This is what I would like to do. Unfortunatly, I have no idea how to. Every time I try to wire in anything at all, it causes real problems. Could anyone provide any info on how to wire in a set of 4 lights on one switch?? A brief diagram, perhaps, of which terminals get hooked up to where? Any info would be much appreciated. Rick Norman4x4xFUN
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19372 From: <joey@j...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 5:40am
Subject: Re: Maps and places to go (Buckeye hills)
I don't have an answer to your question, unfortunatly. I just wanted
to say it is great knowing there are a few of us on the west side. Oh
and also here is a great link that may answer all your map questions.
www.topozone.com. Check it out!
Joey K
93YJ on the road again.
--- In az_vjc@y..., lwt002@a... wrote:
>
> Anyone out there use one of the sprial bound Phoenix area maps? On
page 160
> (this is a 2000 edition) in the bottom half below the Gila River is
a road
> that starts on Narramore Road and cuts the Buckeye Hills in half
and
> continues west off the page. Is anything down there as far a
trails go? Has
> anyone ever been down there?
>
> We're taking like 215th Ave and Elliot road (is that in Cali?).
The map
> doesn't say anything about being on the Res. so I guess it's fair
game, hugh?
>
> Oh, yea... also about places to go, I saw the sign for Highway to
hell....
> just the sign made me want to turn around.
>
> Larry T
19373 From: Jay Eller <jay@t...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 5:51am
Subject: Need help planning a trip
This is in reference to needing some help with vehicles/seats for an
upcoming run that I am planning. Here is what I have so far:
Brian Harmon - 2 seats (coming from Flagstaff! Wow. Guess it doesn't
take much to get you out wheeling!)
Roger Tomas - ? seats. Not sure yet.
Mike Anderson - 2 possibly 3 seats (and looking for a date from some
female gymnasts??? =))
That's all I have!! Hmmmm. Anyone else?
Here is my plan. Going to meet at the turnoff of Table Mesa Road at
12:30 pm on March 4th. From there I would like to run the gas pipeline
trail and then possibly Raw Deal (not necessarily in that order).
Problem is.....I don't know where gas pipeline trail is nor where it
starts. Some help would be appreciated.
Anyone else interested in hitting it for a day? Hell.....if the
vehicles are equipped enough and not many people come, maybe we should
just run Terminator!!
--
----------------------------
Jay Eller
http://www.goodnet.com/~eller
19374 From: David Burke <davewburke@y...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 6:14am
Subject: Re: TR - Bartlett Lake rollover -- part 2 - the roll
I have to chime in here and say my piece. I have been wheeling now for over a
decade. I am a very avid seat belt wearer and will be the first to point out
safety issues when out on the trail.
The day started out great on a little trail know as ANACONDA. I did not have my
rear suspension limiting straps on that day and paid dearly for it. As some of
you know, I have unbelievable flex and wheel travel. This day, my abundance of
travel haunted me. At times my left rear wheel was under my seat and about three
feet from the body. Eventually, suspension components began to fail and I went
into recovery mode. The amount of thought necessary to repair and get my
battered jeep safely off of the trail was high. With the help of many, we fixed
the jeep enough to get it off of the trail. All that was left was to drive the
jeep up a dirt hill to an awaiting dirt road.. simple enough right? My thoughts
were so consumed with what work I had in front of me from the day long of
carnage that I simply forgot to buckle in. I proceed up this steep, but
uneventful hill, and to my surprise the jeep suddenly rolled to its right side.
This had an effect of throwing me onto the ground in-between the cage and the
passenger seat.
I was lucky as the only injury that I had was to my wrist. As my jeep lay on its
side, all of my supplies, tools, food laying all around me....fluids coming out
of everywhere.... all I could think is "why the hell was I not wearing my belt?"
, "why is all of my stuff thrown all around?"
I have ratchet straps around everything to keep things in it's place. I was in
and out of the supply box, tool box, etc. so much that day that I grew tired of
ratcheting, unstrapping, ratcheting, unstraping......to get the tools needed to
fix the jeep. Look, I am an educated man, but I made grave errors that day.
Errors that I hope never to see anyone else make. No matter what your doing, how
many times you have to get in and out.... use your belts and keep everything
strapped down! For you people that wheel with the top on, you must ensure that
everything is securely stowed at all times as if you do roll, you will have many
heavy things bouncing off of your head and body in side of the vehicle. If you
cant see the obstacle, use a spotter. A good spotter will put you where you need
to be with out you having to look at anything other then he or she.
Learn by the mistakes of others, don't wait until this happens to you to do
something about it.
-dave
19375 From: Greg Stapley <love24wheel@h...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 6:49am
Subject: Re: Need help planning a trip
I am not sure yet, I would like to help you out.. At this time I must say tentative..I am pretty banged up right now due to another rollover accident that happened this saturday night,..Yet march 4th is about t week away, so hopefully I will be back to full stength.I will let you know..
Greg
>From: Jay Eller
>CC: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Need help planning a trip
>Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 06:51:54 -0700
>
>This is in reference to needing some help with vehicles/seats for an
>upcoming run that I am planning. Here is what I have so far:
>
>Brian Harmon - 2 seats (coming from Flagstaff! Wow. Guess it doesn't
>take much to get you out wheeling!)
>Roger Tomas - ? seats. Not sure yet.
>Mike Anderson - 2 possibly 3 seats (and looking for a date from some
>female gymnasts??? =))
>
>That's all I have!! Hmmmm. Anyone else?
>
>Here is my plan. Going to meet at the turnoff of Table Mesa Road at
>12:30 pm on March 4th. From there I would like to run the gas pipeline
>trail and then possibly Raw Deal (not necessarily in that order).
>Problem is.....I don't know where gas pipeline trail is nor where it
>starts. Some help would be appreciated.
>
>Anyone else interested in hitting it for a day? Hell.....if the
>vehicles are equipped enough and not many people come, maybe we should
>just run Terminator!!
>--
>----------------------------
>Jay Eller
>http://www.goodnet.com/~eller
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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19376 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 6:54am
Subject: Table Mesa Rollover?
Was flipping channels over the weekend and caught the tail end of
a story that sounded like a possible roll-over and helicopter
evacuation out in the Table Mesa area. Anybody else hear anything
about this?
-Roger
19377 From: <Jeepguy@z...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 6:57am
Subject: Re: Table Mesa Rollover?
I heard about the rollover, one guy broke his leg, the other was ok,
they walked to some campers and called for help. Don't know what they
were driving or who they were.
19378 From: <Jeepguy@z...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 6:59am
Subject: sunday runs
Hey Blair sorry I didn't get a hold of you sun, I didn't get a chance
to check my mail untill this morning. I will be going out later in
the week (thurs or fri) if you want to go. I want to check out some
trails in Florence this week. Catch you later... -Rob
19379 From: Brian Harmon <xjnation@h...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 7:04am
Subject: TR/Anyone get a picof my tip over on terminator
Hi all,
It was a great Saturday Terminator run.....I bent the tie rod into a
pretzel....and with help from great trail companions was back on the trail
in 30 minutes.....with someone missing their jack handle...THANKS.
The front pack of wranglers disappeared at this point and missed the rest of
the excitement.
One jeep broke off a lower control arm on the front axle...we tried a field
weld but to no avail with a winch cable holding to the shock mount to keep
the axle forward.
Just before that Chad a friend of miune from Flagstaff spotted me into a
tipover...I gues thats fair I did it to him in Parker.
Me and Chad waited on the the main road and waited to make sure all the
other jeeps where past the obstacles and near the turn out before we
left.....I needed to get back to camp before dark.....so I could just find
it....during the night we where awaken by p;ethera of emergency vehicles who
where responding to 4x4 over a 200' cliff....we had helicopters landing only
50' from our campsite.....did anyone hear what happened?
Brian Harmon
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19380 From: Brian Harmon <xjnation@h...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 7:09am
Subject: Re: Table Mesa Rollover?
they evac point was MY CAMPSITE....the helicopters landed on 50' from my
motor home.....The fireman that talked to us said they dropped a 4x4 into a
200' revine!....thats all I know....They also said that there where
numberous injuries and three evac copters would be landing....
Brian Harmon
----Original Message Follows----
From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Reply-To: tomasr@a...
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Table Mesa Rollover?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 07:54:20 -0700
Was flipping channels over the weekend and caught the tail end of
a story that sounded like a possible roll-over and helicopter
evacuation out in the Table Mesa area. Anybody else hear anything
about this?
-Roger
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19381 From: David Smith <dwsmith69@h...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 7:24am
Subject: Re: Ignition Cut-off
How do you located the proper wire to tap into.
>From: "Chris and Cindi Gaiser" <ccgaiser@h...>
>To: "AZVJC" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>, <cmandrick@h...>
>Subject: [az_vjc] Ignition Cut-off
>Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 21:33:23 -0700
>
>Hi
>
>I saw your message on the AZVJC board. I run a simple toggle switch hooked
>in to my RUN circuit of the ignition. The reason I ran it on the run and
>not the START circuit is so the truck will make noise and sound like it is
>going to start. I might be close enough to hear the noise and the thief
>might think the truck broke or is flooded, etc. The truck will crank and
>sputter, but when the key is returned to "run" it just dies.
>My switch is under the dash on top of a bracket. It cannot be seen from
>under the dash, you have to know where it is.
>
>My switch saved my other truck 2 different times. The ign cylinder was
>removed both times, but the truck would not run.
>
>I highly recommend doing that to your Jeep.
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19382 From: Greg Stapley <love24wheel@h...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 7:27am
Subject: Re: Table Mesa Rollover?
Yeah read my report on the subject, I replied to the other rollover report.. It was me and Bronco Bill and two other friends..
Greg
>From: Roger Tomas
>Reply-To: tomasr@agcs.com
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Table Mesa Rollover?
>Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 07:54:20 -0700
>
>Was flipping channels over the weekend and caught the tail end of
>a story that sounded like a possible roll-over and helicopter
>evacuation out in the Table Mesa area. Anybody else hear anything
>about this?
>
>-Roger
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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19383 From: Mike Baney <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 7:40am
Subject: Re: (no subject)
I wonder if this is the same Jeep that hit one of our
members sons on his bike?
Mike
--- Wapiti49er@a... wrote:
> To all. I just bought a jeep in Dec and am waiting
> for it to be repaired so I
> haven't been out to join you all, but I hope you
> will help me out in a
> separate matter. on 2-24-2001 a white jeep with
> licence plate #365 fkf hit
> the left rear quarter panel in my wifes care at 5:30
> heading north on cave
> creek rd where it merges n. of 101. The culprit hit
> the car with his right
> front tire. She pulled over and he took off. she was
> ble to catch up enough
> to get the licence plate#, but he made every effort
> to try to lose her, which
> he eventually did due to a traffic light. I hope
> that if any one knows of
> this person can notify him/her to contact me so that
> I don't have to go to
> the police with a hit and run. My E-mail is
> Wapiti49er@a.... Hope to be
> out 4-wheeling with all soon as soon as Dave can fix
> the carb.
>
=====
2001 TJ
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19384 From: Sullivan, Len <kermit@e...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 9:09am
Subject: Bartlett Lake rollover pictures
Hi all
I've uploaded the first batch of pictures from Saturday's rollover at
Bartlett Lake to my photopoint site. I haven't updated the captions yet,
but if you want to see the truck and where it rolled, go here:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=41056&a=11793926
All of these pics were taken on Sunday when we went back for the truck.
Several people were taking pictures immediately after the accident, but I
haven't gotten copies of those yet.
Photos courtesy of Mike Pawlowski and his handy-dandy digital camera.
Len Sullivan
VDT Coordinator
CSK Automotive, Inc.
602.631.7845
mailto:lsulliv@c...
19385 From: <shoebox555@a...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 4:12am
Subject: Bartlett Run
Well Len has put out the trip report and let everyone know what happened.
I just need to add somethings that I think are important to the mix.
I was very exited about going wheelin' cause I don't get to go vary often.
It started out great. When the rollover happened, I heard a CRASH and looked
back to see the truck on it's side. I jumped from our truck still moving some
to run to help. The others in the group with a few exceptions were stunded
and unable to move. I yelled at some one in our group to go the the emergency
call box. and started to assess the injured . I had to improvise on some
things cause we didn't have alot of medical supplies. ( that is changing
today) We got everything taken care of best we could until help arrived. It
really didn't take that long or at least it didn't seem that way.
I plan on taking a first-aid box ( that sits in the back of Len's truck )
and we're putting in a full rollbar in his truck and my CJ with 5 point
belts. Yes we are very safe wheelers but you never know.
It's kinda' of a joke between Len and I about being prepared. I always have
more than enough food, water, blankets, clothes etc... I was taught at an
early age to use the land and preserve it. Some times things happen and you
need to be able to handle anything nature gives you.
For all the newbies and the old timers( because it becomes so second nature
we forget) :
Make sure you have extra :
Food
Water
Clothes
Blanket or 2
some type of firstaid kit
tools
straps
make sure someone knows where your going and about when you'll be home
medicine ( if you take it, and take extra in case you get stuck)
and a card with all your vital information on it( so if something does happen
and you have to go to the hospital they know and can treat accordingly) There
were things I knew and could give the medical help but there was alot I
didn't know
Please don't take this the wrong way but these things are very important
weather your going out for a couple of hours or a few days. I maybe overly
cautious,but I know I will be able to handle anything mother nature throws at
me.
Well I have said my piece.
Happy trails and keep the Jeeps crawlin'.....
19386 From: Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 9:16am
Subject: First Aid
I carry a Army field medic kit. It has more then I hopefully will ever need
but the one time I do, I have it. The minor stuff is easy. The breaks, and
bad injuries are when you need it. Not cheap, but neither is getting hurt or
dead.
Field first aid books and classes are very handy also if you are out allot.
Since my boys and I hunt and do lots of outdoor stuff, I took some advanced
classes. Very much worth it in my opinion.
Ross
-----Original Message-----
From: shoebox555@a... [mailto:shoebox555@a...]
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 10:13 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Bartlett Run
Well Len has put out the trip report and let everyone know what happened.
I just need to add somethings that I think are important to the mix.
I was very exited about going wheelin' cause I don't get to go vary often.
It started out great. When the rollover happened, I heard a CRASH and looked
back to see the truck on it's side. I jumped from our truck still moving
some
to run to help. The others in the group with a few exceptions were stunded
and unable to move. I yelled at some one in our group to go the the
emergency
call box. and started to assess the injured . I had to improvise on some
things cause we didn't have alot of medical supplies. ( that is changing
today) We got everything taken care of best we could until help arrived.
It
really didn't take that long or at least it didn't seem that way.
I plan on taking a first-aid box ( that sits in the back of Len's truck )
and we're putting in a full rollbar in his truck and my CJ with 5 point
belts. Yes we are very safe wheelers but you never know.
It's kinda' of a joke between Len and I about being prepared. I always have
more than enough food, water, blankets, clothes etc... I was taught at an
early age to use the land and preserve it. Some times things happen and you
need to be able to handle anything nature gives you.
For all the newbies and the old timers( because it becomes so second nature
we forget) :
Make sure you have extra :
Food
Water
Clothes
Blanket or 2
some type of firstaid kit
tools
straps
make sure someone knows where your going and about when you'll be home
medicine ( if you take it, and take extra in case you get stuck)
and a card with all your vital information on it( so if something does
happen
and you have to go to the hospital they know and can treat accordingly)
There
were things I knew and could give the medical help but there was alot I
didn't know
Please don't take this the wrong way but these things are very important
weather your going out for a couple of hours or a few days. I maybe overly
cautious,but I know I will be able to handle anything mother nature throws
at
me.
Well I have said my piece.
Happy trails and keep the Jeeps crawlin'.....
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
19387 From: Chris R. <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 9:36am
Subject: Re: First Aid and Mike's trail education day
I know Mike Chatfield was looking into setting up a newbies day, maybe we
could ge someone in the medical field to come out and do a first aid class
that day as well, something newbies to old timers and everyone in between
could benefit from.
Just a thought.
Chris
http://www.hotstuff.alloffroad.com/
My1stJeep@e...
'97 TJ
___
[___]
-(O|||||O)-
=======
[||]----O--[||]
----------------------------------------------------
"He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a
fool forever."
On Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:16:20 -0700, Ross Skinner wrote:
> I carry a Army field medic kit. It has more then I hopefully will ever
need
> but the one time I do, I have it. The minor stuff is easy. The breaks,
and
> bad injuries are when you need it. Not cheap, but neither is getting hurt
or
> dead.
>
> Field first aid books and classes are very handy also if you are out
allot.
> Since my boys and I hunt and do lots of outdoor stuff, I took some
advanced
> classes. Very much worth it in my opinion.
> Ross
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shoebox555@a... [mailto:shoebox555@a...]
> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 10:13 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Bartlett Run
>
>
> Well Len has put out the trip report and let everyone know what
happened.
>
> I just need to add somethings that I think are important to the mix.
> I was very exited about going wheelin' cause I don't get to go vary
often.
>
> It started out great. When the rollover happened, I heard a CRASH and
looked
>
> back to see the truck on it's side. I jumped from our truck still moving
> some
> to run to help. The others in the group with a few exceptions were
stunded
> and unable to move. I yelled at some one in our group to go the the
> emergency
> call box. and started to assess the injured . I had to improvise on some
> things cause we didn't have alot of medical supplies. ( that is changing
> today) We got everything taken care of best we could until help arrived.
> It
> really didn't take that long or at least it didn't seem that way.
> I plan on taking a first-aid box ( that sits in the back of Len's truck )
> and we're putting in a full rollbar in his truck and my CJ with 5 point
> belts. Yes we are very safe wheelers but you never know.
> It's kinda' of a joke between Len and I about being prepared. I always
have
>
> more than enough food, water, blankets, clothes etc... I was taught at
an
> early age to use the land and preserve it. Some times things happen and
you
> need to be able to handle anything nature gives you.
> For all the newbies and the old timers( because it becomes so second
nature
> we forget) :
> Make sure you have extra :
> Food
> Water
> Clothes
> Blanket or 2
> some type of firstaid kit
> tools
> straps
> make sure someone knows where your going and about when you'll be home
> medicine ( if you take it, and take extra in case you get stuck)
> and a card with all your vital information on it( so if something does
> happen
> and you have to go to the hospital they know and can treat accordingly)
> There
> were things I knew and could give the medical help but there was alot I
> didn't know
>
>
> Please don't take this the wrong way but these things are very important
> weather your going out for a couple of hours or a few days. I maybe
overly
>
> cautious,but I know I will be able to handle anything mother nature
throws
> at
> me.
>
> Well I have said my piece.
>
>
> Happy trails and keep the Jeeps crawlin'.....
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________ _____
Send a cool gift with your E-Card
http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/
19388 From: <shoebox555@a...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 4:35am
Subject: Re: First Aid
Ross:
I have to agree with you there. IT only takes a few hours to learn some of
the basics but they will be very handy.
Maybe we could get a class together . A refresher class.
What do you think guys?
Pam
19389 From: Sullivan, Len <kermit@e...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 9:45am
Subject: RE: First Aid
I was thinking about that today too.........Glendale Community College
offers night classes that lead to full EMT certification. Would anybody be
interested in taking them with me? I've had advanced first aid training,
but it's been quite a while.
Considering the remote places that we tend to go and the response time
required to get professional medical people to the scene of a backcountry
accident, I think it would be a very good thing to have as many people as
possible in the club receive full training.
Len Sullivan
VDT Coordinator
CSK Automotive, Inc.
602.631.7845
mailto:lsulliv@c...
On Monday, February 26, 2001 10:35 AM, shoebox555@a... wrote:
> Ross:
>
> I have to agree with you there. IT only takes a few hours to learn some
of
> the basics but they will be very handy.
>
> Maybe we could get a class together . A refresher class.
> What do you think guys?
>
> Pam
>
>
>
19390 From: Nick Notestine <nnote@n...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 9:46am
Subject: Rash of rolls
If I remember correctly the last two rollovers you witnessed Len, no one was
wearing seatbelts were they? Also if I remeber right the at the rollover a
few weeks ago, that family had already rolled once before and still hadn't
learned to use seatbelts?!
Man, Len, I like you and all but I don't know if I want to wheel with you!
Hahahha! Just kidding, I havn't seen you in along time. I need to make a
run with you and the kin. I may even want your son to spot for me.....
Nick
Nnote at neta dot com
(OIIIIIO)
19391 From: Joe W <arizonajeep@h...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 10:03am
Subject: First Aid/CPR Class and Ross's Suggestion
Hello Everyone,
Ross brings up a good point about learning First-Aid/CPR.
I am certified as a First-Aid/CPR Instructor and I would be happy to teach a
class for anyone who is interested. I'd be more than happy to teach a class
for the group, and can teach approximately 6 people in each class (I own
only one CPR manikin, and any more in the class takes up too much time).
If you are interested, please contact me offline. I would be happy to teach
the class for only the cost of the books and supplies (right around $20.00)
I WOULD NOT recommend that ANYONE who is not CERTIFIED to teach
First-Aid/CPR even THINK about volunteering to teach a class.
Can you say HUGE LIABILITY boys and girls?
I would likewise NOT recommend that anyone who IS certified to teach, teach
an abbreviated class. CPR/First-Aid classes should ONLY be taught in their
entirety. People with partial knowledge are MORE DANGEROUS than people who
know nothing at all.
And finally, I would recommend that at least ONE person in every family be
certified in CPR. If you don't take a class from me, I'd highly recommend
that you take one from one of the following sources:
American Heart Institute (no First-Aid but great CPR)
American Red Cross (First-Aid and CPR).
Both of these organizations teach a one day/two day class.
If anyone in the group is interested in being certified in CPR, feel free to
contact me at Arizonajeep@h....
If enough people are interested, I'll put a class schedule together.
Regards,
Joe F. West
> I know Mike Chatfield was looking into setting up a newbies
> day, maybe we
> could ge someone in the medical field to come out and do a
> first aid class
> that day as well, something newbies to old timers and
> everyone in between
> could benefit from.
<snip>
19392 From: <Jeepguy@z...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 10:09am
Subject: Re: First Aid and Mike's trail education day
I'm no doctor, or nurse for that matter, but I was a Search and Resue
Swimmer in the Navy, and I am pretty well trained for most medical
emergencies, from a broken leg to a sucking chest wound (take it easy
there!!) I would be more than willing to help out!
19393 From: Joey Martinez <joey@w...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 10:27am
Subject: thanks
Hey thanks everyone, for all your help. I'll try some of the suggestions when I get off work. And get back to you, and tell you how it turns out. If some of you get a chance stop by here www.ypaz.com
-- not much jeep stuff but there are listings for anything you might need (its the company I work for)
joe
94xj
19394 From: B H <boh105@e...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 10:31am
Subject: Upper Terminator OOPS
Hey all,
Here is the first photo of Alice, Sundance and I, going over on terminator
on Saturday...I thought Id be the frist to spread the picture....great
run!.....bent tierod.....broken leaf spring.....and a tipover......When can
we go again!
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=124756&a=11795189&p=42091191
Brian Harmon
__________________________________________________ _____
Send a cool gift with your E-Card
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19370 From: Scott Kruize <osmtj@y...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 0:50am
Subject: Re: TR - Bartlett Lake rollover -- part 2 - the roll
Len,
Wow, what an adventure!
This goes to show how unprepared most people are to go offroading. Most of us are so used to offroading with safety in mind that we forget how we picked up these skills over time. I can't believe they were not wearing seatbelts. I guess its like they say - you can't legislate common sense.
I look forward to reading part 3 :)
Scott
Len Sullivan wrote:
While the rest of us had lunch, one of the Blazer drivers (Kevin) did some
carb work to his truck. He had only bought it one week earlier, and this
was it's first time off pavement with him. It ran fine when it was level,
but every bump made it stall and hill climbs required a lot of throttle to
keep the engine from loading up and stalling out. Kevin had the top off of
his Blazer, and had installed an extra bucket seat in the back so that it
would seat 5 people. The 4 folks in the RV all piled in with him when we
left to go out for another trail ride after lunch.
Instead of hitting the trails next to the campsite, we headed back down the
beach to hook up with some of the other trails in the area. Pam, Nathan,
and I were in the #6 spot of our convoy with Dominic+Amanda and Mike+his
family+Kathy behind us. Kevin was bringing up the rear with his friend Otto
(from the RV), Otto's wife, their daughter and her boyfriend with him.
About 1/3 of the way from the campsite to the entrance the lake-side path we
were on had a fork in it. One path followed the beach and was nice and
smooth.....the other fork went up over a saddle and followed along in a mild
off camber side hill leaning towards the lower part of the trail. The
vehicles in front of me all took the low road, but I had seen Mike drive
over the saddle on the way in and wanted to try it for myself. The saddle
was only about 8 feet tall, but the side I was approaching from was steep
enough that I was worried about my front tow hook scraping as I approached
it. Anybody who has been on a trail ride with me has seen me hanging out
the window as I climb things, and this time was no different. Once I
started climbing the saddle my hood blocked all forward visibility, so I
just hung out the side and followed the contour of the hill through the very
slight left turn required at the top and continued on down the off camber
(to the drivers side) side hill trail to where it reconnected with the main
path. Dominic came over behind me, then Mike also came up and over the
saddle.
I watched over my shoulder until I saw the front of Kevin's Blazer crest the
saddle, then went back to my own driving. Just a second later, I heard a
horrendous CRASH from behind me. Looking over my shoulder again, I saw
Kevin's Blazer sitting on its roof halfway between the top path and the
bottom path. As I watched, the Blazer rolled over down the hill onto the
passenger side, spilling out three people and all of the parts and coolers
that were in the back. Pam also heard the crash and saw part of the roll.
She bailed out the passenger side of my truck and was running back along the
beach before I even got the truck stopped and turned off. Once my truck was
secure, I also sprinted back to see what kind of carnage there was.
The scene when I got to the accident is still kind of a blur. I remember
running around through the pile of people trying to see who was hurt and how
badly. Since the Blazer did not have the top on and only had a roll bar
(not a cage), I expected to find some pretty serious
injuries........possibly deaths. Otto had already popped out throught the
windshield opening and was checking on his family. His wife was dazed, but
was sitting up apparently unhurt. Likewise with his daughter's boyfriend.
His daughter however, was lying on the ground not moving and obviously in
great pain. Kevin was still stuck inside the cab of the Blazer.
I honestly don't remember anyone else coming to the scene, but suddenly
there was a croud of people all trying to help. By the time I finished
locating all of the passengers, Pam was already working on the Christy (the
daughter). Kevin was pretty well beat up but was able to climb out throught
the windshield opening by himself. We got all of the passengers seated in a
group and started checking them out. Otto, his wife, and his daughters
boyfriend all just had a few minor scrapes and bruises. Several other
people were assisting Pam with caring for Christy, so Amanda and I started
looking after Kevin. Even though he had been bounced around the cab and had
hit his head pretty hard, he was more concerned with everyone else than with
himself and wanted to go help. He was bleeding from his head injury, so
keeping him quiet and calm was imperative. We made a big deal of bandaging
a small cut on his elbow mainly so that we'd have an excuse to keep him
sitting down.
I really have to say at this point how proud I am of Pam and the way she
handled the emergency. She identified Christy as the most seriously hurt
person even before I had completed my running inspection (injuries, possible
vehicle fire, etc) and took charge of her care immediately. She had help
from several other people, and I knew that if she needed me she was let me
know, so I went on to other things. She was perfect. Clear orders, proper
emergency procedures, all of it. When the paramedics arrived, she had
Christy immobilized and was able to give a full report of definate and
possible injuries complete with vitals, pupil responses, motor
control.....the works.
The guy in the Dodge Ram had raced up the beach to a call box and summoned
help when the rollover first occurred. The first response was from a county
Sheriff, followed closely by a Forest Service paramedic. The Forest Service
medic had driven so hard to get there that his brakes were almost on
fire......we could smell them from 50 feet away. With the official
emergency personell on site, the rest of us dropped back out of the way and
let them do their job while we secured the area. Mike's wife Laurie took
charge of all the kids, some other people started picking up all the debris
from the rollover, and about 6 others (including Mike and I) started looking
after the Blazer.
The Blazer was still sitting on its passenger side and was dumping fluids at
an alarming rate........most importantly gasoline out of the filler neck.
After running a tow strap from it to another vehicle to keep it from sliding
into the water, a bunch of us pushed it back over onto it's wheels. Mike
grabbed a shovel and started burying the spilled gasoline to reduce fire
danger. At one time I counted 6 different fire extinguishers spread out on
the ground around the truck, so everyone was very aware of the possible
danger.
A Scottsdale Rural Metro ambulance showed up a little while after the Forest
Service medic, but they decided that with Christy's possible spinal injuries
and Kevin's head injury it would be best to fly both of them out. The
MedEvac choppers only hold 1 patient, so 2 different helicopters had to be
called in to fly them into town. Otto and the rest of the family were in
good enough shape to drive themselves to the hospital, so they headed back
to the campsite to get their RV and drive out with Pam accompanying them.
Injury totals:
Christy fell out of the back of the Blazer when it was upside down, landing
on her head and neck. As she fell out, her legs were tangled in the seat
just enough to cause her to do the splits when she hit which resulted in the
dislocation of both of her hips. She also received a cut behind her left
ear and a patch of "road rash" that extended from her chest to her knees.
Her hips popped back into place while she was being placed onto the back
board. The head injury required 8 stitches. No broken bones.
Otto's wife received only minor scrapes and bruises.
Christy's boyfriend was uninjured.
Otto and Kevin (in the front seats) were not wearing seatbelts, so they fell
on each other as the truck rolled. Both of them are pretty big
boys.....Kevin weighs in at 275 and Otto is even larger. Otto has some
bruises and a couple of cuts from crawling out through the windshield
opening, but no other injuries.
Kevin bruised both thighs when he hit the steering wheel, and has an egg
sized knot on his head and a mild concussion from hitting a metal grab
handle inside the cab.
Both Kevin and Christy had been released from the hospital by the time I got
there.
The accident:
It wasn't until after everyone else was gone that I really got a chance to
talk with Mike about what really happened. Mike was in front of Kevin and
saw the whole thing in his rear view mirror. Remember the slight left turn
I mentioned at the top of the saddle? Apparently Kevin wasn't able to see
the turn and went straight up the saddle. When he didn't turn, his
passenger side front tire continued climbing up the side of the saddle onto
a rock shelf while the drivers side started down the back side of the saddle
and into a rut that had been formed in the trail. This put the passenger
side almost 6 feet higher than the drivers side in less than a second. At
the height of the travel on the passenger side, the beads blew out on BOTH
drivers side tires and over it went.
On the way home that night, I had a long talk with Kathy and Nathan (my
kids) about the accident so that they would understand it and not be
frightened. We talked about the injuries and the actual mechanism of how
and why the truck rolled over. The second really proud moment of the day
came when the kids told me why they thought it had happened:
Kathy (age 9): "He didn't get out and look at the hill like you
do.......and he didn't have somebody stand there and direct him either."
Nathan (age 7): "He was going to fast too........he should have put it in 4
low"
And most important (from both of them): "They should have been wearing
their seatbelts like we do"
'Nuff said.
tomorrow part 3.......the recovery
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19371 From: David Burke <davewburke@y...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 4:39am
Subject: Re: Need help installing rock lights
Rick,
Stu's wiring diagram is perfect for what you need. You can use one relay, as his diagram illustrates, if your total power output of your lights doesn't exceed 200 watts or so. This will enable you to run the lights thru one relay and using a 20 Amp fuse. If you plan on more then 200 watts, then you must use two relays and split the lights between them. I am not a fan of crimp connectors, so I solder and heat shrink all of the connections and use at least 14 gauge wire. Good luck.
-dave
Rick Norman wrote:
I am finally getting around to installing some rock lights underneath my XJ. I have (4) 55W driving lights from Harbor Freight. I think they are still on sale for $19.99 (normally 39.99) if anyones interested. Recently, there was a post concerning wiring in 2 relays with one switch to control 4 lights. This is what I would like to do. Unfortunatly, I have no idea how to. Every time I try to wire in anything at all, it causes real problems. Could anyone provide any info on how to wire in a set of 4 lights on one switch?? A brief diagram, perhaps, of which terminals get hooked up to where? Any info would be much appreciated. Rick Norman4x4xFUN
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
19372 From: <joey@j...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 5:40am
Subject: Re: Maps and places to go (Buckeye hills)
I don't have an answer to your question, unfortunatly. I just wanted
to say it is great knowing there are a few of us on the west side. Oh
and also here is a great link that may answer all your map questions.
www.topozone.com. Check it out!
Joey K
93YJ on the road again.
--- In az_vjc@y..., lwt002@a... wrote:
>
> Anyone out there use one of the sprial bound Phoenix area maps? On
page 160
> (this is a 2000 edition) in the bottom half below the Gila River is
a road
> that starts on Narramore Road and cuts the Buckeye Hills in half
and
> continues west off the page. Is anything down there as far a
trails go? Has
> anyone ever been down there?
>
> We're taking like 215th Ave and Elliot road (is that in Cali?).
The map
> doesn't say anything about being on the Res. so I guess it's fair
game, hugh?
>
> Oh, yea... also about places to go, I saw the sign for Highway to
hell....
> just the sign made me want to turn around.
>
> Larry T
19373 From: Jay Eller <jay@t...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 5:51am
Subject: Need help planning a trip
This is in reference to needing some help with vehicles/seats for an
upcoming run that I am planning. Here is what I have so far:
Brian Harmon - 2 seats (coming from Flagstaff! Wow. Guess it doesn't
take much to get you out wheeling!)
Roger Tomas - ? seats. Not sure yet.
Mike Anderson - 2 possibly 3 seats (and looking for a date from some
female gymnasts??? =))
That's all I have!! Hmmmm. Anyone else?
Here is my plan. Going to meet at the turnoff of Table Mesa Road at
12:30 pm on March 4th. From there I would like to run the gas pipeline
trail and then possibly Raw Deal (not necessarily in that order).
Problem is.....I don't know where gas pipeline trail is nor where it
starts. Some help would be appreciated.
Anyone else interested in hitting it for a day? Hell.....if the
vehicles are equipped enough and not many people come, maybe we should
just run Terminator!!
--
----------------------------
Jay Eller
http://www.goodnet.com/~eller
19374 From: David Burke <davewburke@y...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 6:14am
Subject: Re: TR - Bartlett Lake rollover -- part 2 - the roll
I have to chime in here and say my piece. I have been wheeling now for over a
decade. I am a very avid seat belt wearer and will be the first to point out
safety issues when out on the trail.
The day started out great on a little trail know as ANACONDA. I did not have my
rear suspension limiting straps on that day and paid dearly for it. As some of
you know, I have unbelievable flex and wheel travel. This day, my abundance of
travel haunted me. At times my left rear wheel was under my seat and about three
feet from the body. Eventually, suspension components began to fail and I went
into recovery mode. The amount of thought necessary to repair and get my
battered jeep safely off of the trail was high. With the help of many, we fixed
the jeep enough to get it off of the trail. All that was left was to drive the
jeep up a dirt hill to an awaiting dirt road.. simple enough right? My thoughts
were so consumed with what work I had in front of me from the day long of
carnage that I simply forgot to buckle in. I proceed up this steep, but
uneventful hill, and to my surprise the jeep suddenly rolled to its right side.
This had an effect of throwing me onto the ground in-between the cage and the
passenger seat.
I was lucky as the only injury that I had was to my wrist. As my jeep lay on its
side, all of my supplies, tools, food laying all around me....fluids coming out
of everywhere.... all I could think is "why the hell was I not wearing my belt?"
, "why is all of my stuff thrown all around?"
I have ratchet straps around everything to keep things in it's place. I was in
and out of the supply box, tool box, etc. so much that day that I grew tired of
ratcheting, unstrapping, ratcheting, unstraping......to get the tools needed to
fix the jeep. Look, I am an educated man, but I made grave errors that day.
Errors that I hope never to see anyone else make. No matter what your doing, how
many times you have to get in and out.... use your belts and keep everything
strapped down! For you people that wheel with the top on, you must ensure that
everything is securely stowed at all times as if you do roll, you will have many
heavy things bouncing off of your head and body in side of the vehicle. If you
cant see the obstacle, use a spotter. A good spotter will put you where you need
to be with out you having to look at anything other then he or she.
Learn by the mistakes of others, don't wait until this happens to you to do
something about it.
-dave
19375 From: Greg Stapley <love24wheel@h...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 6:49am
Subject: Re: Need help planning a trip
I am not sure yet, I would like to help you out.. At this time I must say tentative..I am pretty banged up right now due to another rollover accident that happened this saturday night,..Yet march 4th is about t week away, so hopefully I will be back to full stength.I will let you know..
Greg
>From: Jay Eller
>CC: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Need help planning a trip
>Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 06:51:54 -0700
>
>This is in reference to needing some help with vehicles/seats for an
>upcoming run that I am planning. Here is what I have so far:
>
>Brian Harmon - 2 seats (coming from Flagstaff! Wow. Guess it doesn't
>take much to get you out wheeling!)
>Roger Tomas - ? seats. Not sure yet.
>Mike Anderson - 2 possibly 3 seats (and looking for a date from some
>female gymnasts??? =))
>
>That's all I have!! Hmmmm. Anyone else?
>
>Here is my plan. Going to meet at the turnoff of Table Mesa Road at
>12:30 pm on March 4th. From there I would like to run the gas pipeline
>trail and then possibly Raw Deal (not necessarily in that order).
>Problem is.....I don't know where gas pipeline trail is nor where it
>starts. Some help would be appreciated.
>
>Anyone else interested in hitting it for a day? Hell.....if the
>vehicles are equipped enough and not many people come, maybe we should
>just run Terminator!!
>--
>----------------------------
>Jay Eller
>http://www.goodnet.com/~eller
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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19376 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 6:54am
Subject: Table Mesa Rollover?
Was flipping channels over the weekend and caught the tail end of
a story that sounded like a possible roll-over and helicopter
evacuation out in the Table Mesa area. Anybody else hear anything
about this?
-Roger
19377 From: <Jeepguy@z...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 6:57am
Subject: Re: Table Mesa Rollover?
I heard about the rollover, one guy broke his leg, the other was ok,
they walked to some campers and called for help. Don't know what they
were driving or who they were.
19378 From: <Jeepguy@z...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 6:59am
Subject: sunday runs
Hey Blair sorry I didn't get a hold of you sun, I didn't get a chance
to check my mail untill this morning. I will be going out later in
the week (thurs or fri) if you want to go. I want to check out some
trails in Florence this week. Catch you later... -Rob
19379 From: Brian Harmon <xjnation@h...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 7:04am
Subject: TR/Anyone get a picof my tip over on terminator
Hi all,
It was a great Saturday Terminator run.....I bent the tie rod into a
pretzel....and with help from great trail companions was back on the trail
in 30 minutes.....with someone missing their jack handle...THANKS.
The front pack of wranglers disappeared at this point and missed the rest of
the excitement.
One jeep broke off a lower control arm on the front axle...we tried a field
weld but to no avail with a winch cable holding to the shock mount to keep
the axle forward.
Just before that Chad a friend of miune from Flagstaff spotted me into a
tipover...I gues thats fair I did it to him in Parker.
Me and Chad waited on the the main road and waited to make sure all the
other jeeps where past the obstacles and near the turn out before we
left.....I needed to get back to camp before dark.....so I could just find
it....during the night we where awaken by p;ethera of emergency vehicles who
where responding to 4x4 over a 200' cliff....we had helicopters landing only
50' from our campsite.....did anyone hear what happened?
Brian Harmon
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19380 From: Brian Harmon <xjnation@h...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 7:09am
Subject: Re: Table Mesa Rollover?
they evac point was MY CAMPSITE....the helicopters landed on 50' from my
motor home.....The fireman that talked to us said they dropped a 4x4 into a
200' revine!....thats all I know....They also said that there where
numberous injuries and three evac copters would be landing....
Brian Harmon
----Original Message Follows----
From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Reply-To: tomasr@a...
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Table Mesa Rollover?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 07:54:20 -0700
Was flipping channels over the weekend and caught the tail end of
a story that sounded like a possible roll-over and helicopter
evacuation out in the Table Mesa area. Anybody else hear anything
about this?
-Roger
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19381 From: David Smith <dwsmith69@h...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 7:24am
Subject: Re: Ignition Cut-off
How do you located the proper wire to tap into.
>From: "Chris and Cindi Gaiser" <ccgaiser@h...>
>To: "AZVJC" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>, <cmandrick@h...>
>Subject: [az_vjc] Ignition Cut-off
>Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 21:33:23 -0700
>
>Hi
>
>I saw your message on the AZVJC board. I run a simple toggle switch hooked
>in to my RUN circuit of the ignition. The reason I ran it on the run and
>not the START circuit is so the truck will make noise and sound like it is
>going to start. I might be close enough to hear the noise and the thief
>might think the truck broke or is flooded, etc. The truck will crank and
>sputter, but when the key is returned to "run" it just dies.
>My switch is under the dash on top of a bracket. It cannot be seen from
>under the dash, you have to know where it is.
>
>My switch saved my other truck 2 different times. The ign cylinder was
>removed both times, but the truck would not run.
>
>I highly recommend doing that to your Jeep.
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19382 From: Greg Stapley <love24wheel@h...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 7:27am
Subject: Re: Table Mesa Rollover?
Yeah read my report on the subject, I replied to the other rollover report.. It was me and Bronco Bill and two other friends..
Greg
>From: Roger Tomas
>Reply-To: tomasr@agcs.com
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Table Mesa Rollover?
>Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 07:54:20 -0700
>
>Was flipping channels over the weekend and caught the tail end of
>a story that sounded like a possible roll-over and helicopter
>evacuation out in the Table Mesa area. Anybody else hear anything
>about this?
>
>-Roger
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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19383 From: Mike Baney <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 7:40am
Subject: Re: (no subject)
I wonder if this is the same Jeep that hit one of our
members sons on his bike?
Mike
--- Wapiti49er@a... wrote:
> To all. I just bought a jeep in Dec and am waiting
> for it to be repaired so I
> haven't been out to join you all, but I hope you
> will help me out in a
> separate matter. on 2-24-2001 a white jeep with
> licence plate #365 fkf hit
> the left rear quarter panel in my wifes care at 5:30
> heading north on cave
> creek rd where it merges n. of 101. The culprit hit
> the car with his right
> front tire. She pulled over and he took off. she was
> ble to catch up enough
> to get the licence plate#, but he made every effort
> to try to lose her, which
> he eventually did due to a traffic light. I hope
> that if any one knows of
> this person can notify him/her to contact me so that
> I don't have to go to
> the police with a hit and run. My E-mail is
> Wapiti49er@a.... Hope to be
> out 4-wheeling with all soon as soon as Dave can fix
> the carb.
>
=====
2001 TJ
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19384 From: Sullivan, Len <kermit@e...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 9:09am
Subject: Bartlett Lake rollover pictures
Hi all
I've uploaded the first batch of pictures from Saturday's rollover at
Bartlett Lake to my photopoint site. I haven't updated the captions yet,
but if you want to see the truck and where it rolled, go here:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=41056&a=11793926
All of these pics were taken on Sunday when we went back for the truck.
Several people were taking pictures immediately after the accident, but I
haven't gotten copies of those yet.
Photos courtesy of Mike Pawlowski and his handy-dandy digital camera.
Len Sullivan
VDT Coordinator
CSK Automotive, Inc.
602.631.7845
mailto:lsulliv@c...
19385 From: <shoebox555@a...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 4:12am
Subject: Bartlett Run
Well Len has put out the trip report and let everyone know what happened.
I just need to add somethings that I think are important to the mix.
I was very exited about going wheelin' cause I don't get to go vary often.
It started out great. When the rollover happened, I heard a CRASH and looked
back to see the truck on it's side. I jumped from our truck still moving some
to run to help. The others in the group with a few exceptions were stunded
and unable to move. I yelled at some one in our group to go the the emergency
call box. and started to assess the injured . I had to improvise on some
things cause we didn't have alot of medical supplies. ( that is changing
today) We got everything taken care of best we could until help arrived. It
really didn't take that long or at least it didn't seem that way.
I plan on taking a first-aid box ( that sits in the back of Len's truck )
and we're putting in a full rollbar in his truck and my CJ with 5 point
belts. Yes we are very safe wheelers but you never know.
It's kinda' of a joke between Len and I about being prepared. I always have
more than enough food, water, blankets, clothes etc... I was taught at an
early age to use the land and preserve it. Some times things happen and you
need to be able to handle anything nature gives you.
For all the newbies and the old timers( because it becomes so second nature
we forget) :
Make sure you have extra :
Food
Water
Clothes
Blanket or 2
some type of firstaid kit
tools
straps
make sure someone knows where your going and about when you'll be home
medicine ( if you take it, and take extra in case you get stuck)
and a card with all your vital information on it( so if something does happen
and you have to go to the hospital they know and can treat accordingly) There
were things I knew and could give the medical help but there was alot I
didn't know
Please don't take this the wrong way but these things are very important
weather your going out for a couple of hours or a few days. I maybe overly
cautious,but I know I will be able to handle anything mother nature throws at
me.
Well I have said my piece.
Happy trails and keep the Jeeps crawlin'.....
19386 From: Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 9:16am
Subject: First Aid
I carry a Army field medic kit. It has more then I hopefully will ever need
but the one time I do, I have it. The minor stuff is easy. The breaks, and
bad injuries are when you need it. Not cheap, but neither is getting hurt or
dead.
Field first aid books and classes are very handy also if you are out allot.
Since my boys and I hunt and do lots of outdoor stuff, I took some advanced
classes. Very much worth it in my opinion.
Ross
-----Original Message-----
From: shoebox555@a... [mailto:shoebox555@a...]
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 10:13 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Bartlett Run
Well Len has put out the trip report and let everyone know what happened.
I just need to add somethings that I think are important to the mix.
I was very exited about going wheelin' cause I don't get to go vary often.
It started out great. When the rollover happened, I heard a CRASH and looked
back to see the truck on it's side. I jumped from our truck still moving
some
to run to help. The others in the group with a few exceptions were stunded
and unable to move. I yelled at some one in our group to go the the
emergency
call box. and started to assess the injured . I had to improvise on some
things cause we didn't have alot of medical supplies. ( that is changing
today) We got everything taken care of best we could until help arrived.
It
really didn't take that long or at least it didn't seem that way.
I plan on taking a first-aid box ( that sits in the back of Len's truck )
and we're putting in a full rollbar in his truck and my CJ with 5 point
belts. Yes we are very safe wheelers but you never know.
It's kinda' of a joke between Len and I about being prepared. I always have
more than enough food, water, blankets, clothes etc... I was taught at an
early age to use the land and preserve it. Some times things happen and you
need to be able to handle anything nature gives you.
For all the newbies and the old timers( because it becomes so second nature
we forget) :
Make sure you have extra :
Food
Water
Clothes
Blanket or 2
some type of firstaid kit
tools
straps
make sure someone knows where your going and about when you'll be home
medicine ( if you take it, and take extra in case you get stuck)
and a card with all your vital information on it( so if something does
happen
and you have to go to the hospital they know and can treat accordingly)
There
were things I knew and could give the medical help but there was alot I
didn't know
Please don't take this the wrong way but these things are very important
weather your going out for a couple of hours or a few days. I maybe overly
cautious,but I know I will be able to handle anything mother nature throws
at
me.
Well I have said my piece.
Happy trails and keep the Jeeps crawlin'.....
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
19387 From: Chris R. <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 9:36am
Subject: Re: First Aid and Mike's trail education day
I know Mike Chatfield was looking into setting up a newbies day, maybe we
could ge someone in the medical field to come out and do a first aid class
that day as well, something newbies to old timers and everyone in between
could benefit from.
Just a thought.
Chris
http://www.hotstuff.alloffroad.com/
My1stJeep@e...
'97 TJ
___
[___]
-(O|||||O)-
=======
[||]----O--[||]
----------------------------------------------------
"He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a
fool forever."
On Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:16:20 -0700, Ross Skinner wrote:
> I carry a Army field medic kit. It has more then I hopefully will ever
need
> but the one time I do, I have it. The minor stuff is easy. The breaks,
and
> bad injuries are when you need it. Not cheap, but neither is getting hurt
or
> dead.
>
> Field first aid books and classes are very handy also if you are out
allot.
> Since my boys and I hunt and do lots of outdoor stuff, I took some
advanced
> classes. Very much worth it in my opinion.
> Ross
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shoebox555@a... [mailto:shoebox555@a...]
> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 10:13 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Bartlett Run
>
>
> Well Len has put out the trip report and let everyone know what
happened.
>
> I just need to add somethings that I think are important to the mix.
> I was very exited about going wheelin' cause I don't get to go vary
often.
>
> It started out great. When the rollover happened, I heard a CRASH and
looked
>
> back to see the truck on it's side. I jumped from our truck still moving
> some
> to run to help. The others in the group with a few exceptions were
stunded
> and unable to move. I yelled at some one in our group to go the the
> emergency
> call box. and started to assess the injured . I had to improvise on some
> things cause we didn't have alot of medical supplies. ( that is changing
> today) We got everything taken care of best we could until help arrived.
> It
> really didn't take that long or at least it didn't seem that way.
> I plan on taking a first-aid box ( that sits in the back of Len's truck )
> and we're putting in a full rollbar in his truck and my CJ with 5 point
> belts. Yes we are very safe wheelers but you never know.
> It's kinda' of a joke between Len and I about being prepared. I always
have
>
> more than enough food, water, blankets, clothes etc... I was taught at
an
> early age to use the land and preserve it. Some times things happen and
you
> need to be able to handle anything nature gives you.
> For all the newbies and the old timers( because it becomes so second
nature
> we forget) :
> Make sure you have extra :
> Food
> Water
> Clothes
> Blanket or 2
> some type of firstaid kit
> tools
> straps
> make sure someone knows where your going and about when you'll be home
> medicine ( if you take it, and take extra in case you get stuck)
> and a card with all your vital information on it( so if something does
> happen
> and you have to go to the hospital they know and can treat accordingly)
> There
> were things I knew and could give the medical help but there was alot I
> didn't know
>
>
> Please don't take this the wrong way but these things are very important
> weather your going out for a couple of hours or a few days. I maybe
overly
>
> cautious,but I know I will be able to handle anything mother nature
throws
> at
> me.
>
> Well I have said my piece.
>
>
> Happy trails and keep the Jeeps crawlin'.....
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________ _____
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19388 From: <shoebox555@a...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 4:35am
Subject: Re: First Aid
Ross:
I have to agree with you there. IT only takes a few hours to learn some of
the basics but they will be very handy.
Maybe we could get a class together . A refresher class.
What do you think guys?
Pam
19389 From: Sullivan, Len <kermit@e...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 9:45am
Subject: RE: First Aid
I was thinking about that today too.........Glendale Community College
offers night classes that lead to full EMT certification. Would anybody be
interested in taking them with me? I've had advanced first aid training,
but it's been quite a while.
Considering the remote places that we tend to go and the response time
required to get professional medical people to the scene of a backcountry
accident, I think it would be a very good thing to have as many people as
possible in the club receive full training.
Len Sullivan
VDT Coordinator
CSK Automotive, Inc.
602.631.7845
mailto:lsulliv@c...
On Monday, February 26, 2001 10:35 AM, shoebox555@a... wrote:
> Ross:
>
> I have to agree with you there. IT only takes a few hours to learn some
of
> the basics but they will be very handy.
>
> Maybe we could get a class together . A refresher class.
> What do you think guys?
>
> Pam
>
>
>
19390 From: Nick Notestine <nnote@n...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 9:46am
Subject: Rash of rolls
If I remember correctly the last two rollovers you witnessed Len, no one was
wearing seatbelts were they? Also if I remeber right the at the rollover a
few weeks ago, that family had already rolled once before and still hadn't
learned to use seatbelts?!
Man, Len, I like you and all but I don't know if I want to wheel with you!
Hahahha! Just kidding, I havn't seen you in along time. I need to make a
run with you and the kin. I may even want your son to spot for me.....
Nick
Nnote at neta dot com
(OIIIIIO)
19391 From: Joe W <arizonajeep@h...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 10:03am
Subject: First Aid/CPR Class and Ross's Suggestion
Hello Everyone,
Ross brings up a good point about learning First-Aid/CPR.
I am certified as a First-Aid/CPR Instructor and I would be happy to teach a
class for anyone who is interested. I'd be more than happy to teach a class
for the group, and can teach approximately 6 people in each class (I own
only one CPR manikin, and any more in the class takes up too much time).
If you are interested, please contact me offline. I would be happy to teach
the class for only the cost of the books and supplies (right around $20.00)
I WOULD NOT recommend that ANYONE who is not CERTIFIED to teach
First-Aid/CPR even THINK about volunteering to teach a class.
Can you say HUGE LIABILITY boys and girls?
I would likewise NOT recommend that anyone who IS certified to teach, teach
an abbreviated class. CPR/First-Aid classes should ONLY be taught in their
entirety. People with partial knowledge are MORE DANGEROUS than people who
know nothing at all.
And finally, I would recommend that at least ONE person in every family be
certified in CPR. If you don't take a class from me, I'd highly recommend
that you take one from one of the following sources:
American Heart Institute (no First-Aid but great CPR)
American Red Cross (First-Aid and CPR).
Both of these organizations teach a one day/two day class.
If anyone in the group is interested in being certified in CPR, feel free to
contact me at Arizonajeep@h....
If enough people are interested, I'll put a class schedule together.
Regards,
Joe F. West
> I know Mike Chatfield was looking into setting up a newbies
> day, maybe we
> could ge someone in the medical field to come out and do a
> first aid class
> that day as well, something newbies to old timers and
> everyone in between
> could benefit from.
<snip>
19392 From: <Jeepguy@z...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 10:09am
Subject: Re: First Aid and Mike's trail education day
I'm no doctor, or nurse for that matter, but I was a Search and Resue
Swimmer in the Navy, and I am pretty well trained for most medical
emergencies, from a broken leg to a sucking chest wound (take it easy
there!!) I would be more than willing to help out!
19393 From: Joey Martinez <joey@w...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 10:27am
Subject: thanks
Hey thanks everyone, for all your help. I'll try some of the suggestions when I get off work. And get back to you, and tell you how it turns out. If some of you get a chance stop by here www.ypaz.com
-- not much jeep stuff but there are listings for anything you might need (its the company I work for)
joe
94xj
19394 From: B H <boh105@e...>
Date: Mon Feb 26, 2001 10:31am
Subject: Upper Terminator OOPS
Hey all,
Here is the first photo of Alice, Sundance and I, going over on terminator
on Saturday...I thought Id be the frist to spread the picture....great
run!.....bent tierod.....broken leaf spring.....and a tipover......When can
we go again!
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=124756&a=11795189&p=42091191
Brian Harmon
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