136 amp alternator

[Tom Schenk]

You should do this:

I got mine for $25 and it took less than an hour:

http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/2004/jeepalt/

[peterp1212]

Tom, these type of upgrade usually draw lots of posts! Why none here? Is it just so obvious that everyone has already done this? The upgade sounds great! I will definately look into it further but would like to see some of the more "experienced wrench heads" comments on the subject!

[SavageSun4x4]

Tom, these type of upgrade usually draw lots of posts! Why none here? Is it just so obvious that everyone has already done this? The upgade sounds great! I will definately look into it further but would like to see some of the more "experienced wrench heads" comments on the subject!
X2
Almost sounds too good to be true. ? is whether or not is will fit my '03 TJ

[Quasimotor]

X2
Almost sounds too good to be true. ? is whether or not is will fit my '03 TJ
I second the motion, but I'm an 04 my fog lights make things go dim when I turn them all on, and this might be the solution!
Jim

[Tom Schenk]

X2
Almost sounds too good to be true. ? is whether or not is will fit my '03 TJ

Yeah, it was easy...a little too easy. I'm at work now but when I get home I'll post up the PN for my old alternator so you can compare it to yours.

[Tom Schenk]

My old alternator was Denso type PN 56005685 that according to my build sheet was good for 117 amps.

[SavageSun4x4]

My old alternator was Denso type PN 56005685 that according to my build sheet was good for 117 amps.
Heck Tom with that much juice to start with you are in fine shape. Now for all of US Rubicon owners, you know the Jeeps with low, low 4:1 gears set up in a 241 transfer case and those Dana 44's.:rolleyes: Well DC-Jeep had to make some money some place so they short changed us in the alternatior dept, we have all of 90 amps [can you believe that!]. :mad: Anyhow that's the Rubicon owners 'dirty little secret' so please don't spread the word.:rolleyes:

[Quasimotor]

Heck Tom with that much juice to start with you are in fine shape. Now for all of US Rubicon owners, you know the Jeeps with low, low 4:1 gears set up in a 241 transfer case and those Dana 44's.:rolleyes: Well DC-Jeep had to make some money some place so they short changed us in the alternatior dept, we have all of 90 amps [can you believe that!]. :mad: Anyhow that's the Rubicon owners 'dirty little secret' so please don't spread the word.:rolleyes:
I knew there was a reason I didn't buy one of those ubercons.....:D
Jim

[Tom Schenk]

Heck Tom with that much juice to start with you are in fine shape. Now for all of US Rubicon owners, you know the Jeeps with low, low 4:1 gears set up in a 241 transfer case and those Dana 44's.:rolleyes: Well DC-Jeep had to make some money some place so they short changed us in the alternatior dept, we have all of 90 amps [can you believe that!]. :mad: Anyhow that's the Rubicon owners 'dirty little secret' so please don't spread the word.:rolleyes:


Everything was fine until I added a Taurus fan. That sucker draws some amperage! Plus my old alt was getting purdy noisy. I'm suprised to hear that the rubi's only came with 90a. I was under the impression that anything that came with fog lights had the bigger alternator as part of the package. Sorry about your luck on that one guys. Don't worry though...you're trail rated...everythings gonna be fine.;) .

[ROCKFAN]

Heck Tom with that much juice to start with you are in fine shape. Now for all of US Rubicon owners, you know the Jeeps with low, low 4:1 gears set up in a 241 transfer case and those Dana 44's.:rolleyes: Well DC-Jeep had to make some money some place so they short changed us in the alternatior dept, we have all of 90 amps [can you believe that!]. :mad: Anyhow that's the Rubicon owners 'dirty little secret' so please don't spread the word.:rolleyes:

You made me scratch my head, so I checked the build sheet for my Rubicon - it shows the 117A alternator under the standard equipment :confused:
Was yours from early in the model year, or late? Mine was an early '03 - maybe DC made a change in mid year or something...:cool:

[SavageSun4x4]

You made me scratch my head, so I checked the build sheet for my Rubicon - it shows the 117A alternator under the standard equipment :confused:
Was yours from early in the model year, or late? Mine was an early '03 - maybe DC made a change in mid year or something...:cool:
Mine was very early being built the last week of Aug 02.

[ROCKFAN]

Odd - so was mine (I think) - I picked it up in late September '02, so the build date has to be near there...:confused:

[SavageSun4x4]

Odd - so was mine (I think) - I picked it up in late September '02, so the build date has to be near there...:confused:
I picked mine up the first week in Sept, in fact it was the very first Rubicon shipped to Dallas-Ft Worth Jeep dealers.

[mbuckner]

My 2001 TJ has the 117amp alternator.

So, if you install the 136 amp alernator will the other components in the system utilize the 136 amps or will something go up in smoke? Is there some type of regulator required?

This seems too simple.

Best regards,

Mike

[RokNRich]

My '04 TJR has the 117 A alternator, this still sounds like a worthy upgrade/replacement way to go. Thanks, Tom.

Cross that excuse off your list Jim.

[SavageSun4x4]

My 2001 TJ has the 117amp alternator.

So, if you install the 136 amp alernator will the other components in the system utilize the 136 amps or will something go up in smoke? Is there some type of regulator required?

This seems too simple.

Best regards,

Mike
The regulator is built in. The way it works, is: The regulator can produce up to 136 amps, but it only doles out what is asked of it up to that amount. No, you don't have to worry about anything going up in smoke.

[Tom Schenk]

My 2001 TJ has the 117amp alternator.

So, if you install the 136 amp alernator will the other components in the system utilize the 136 amps or will something go up in smoke? Is there some type of regulator required?

This seems too simple.

Best regards,

Mike

X2 what Don said. Your Jeep uses a 12 volt format that is not affected by amperage. With amps, more is better.

[mbuckner]

So, if I am winching on a hot Arizona summer night, have auxiliary lights on, and running the air conditioner, is the 136 amp alternator going to be enough---OR-- would the original 117 amp have done the job?

Is there some type of electrical formula that numbers can be calculated for amp requirements -- before I embark on this project?

Best regards,

Mike

[SavageSun4x4]

So, if I am winching on a hot Arizona summer night, have auxiliary lights on, and running the air conditioner, is the 136 amp alternator going to be enough---OR-- would the original 117 amp have done the job?

Is there some type of electrical formula that numbers can be calculated for amp requirements -- before I embark on this project?

Best regards,

Mike
Well, the amps required are drawn from the battery and the alternator. For illustrative purposes only:

Suppose you crank up your Jeep and it has a 117 amp alternator, you have all your inboard and outboard lights on, looking like a cheap carnny ride in a Wal Mart Parking lot, when your wheeling buddy gets stuck on the Sonic curb. You run to his assistance, like a hooker looking for a $10 spot.

Now the cheesy aluminum wired winch you bought at Harbor Fright pulls more amps than the circle jerk at Sonic. About 400 amps add that to the 200 amps your light shows draws and you have a 600-amp load.

But being the kool tool you are and knowing the entire Sonic is watching this parking lot recovery you flip the switch for CD player and let it spin some tunes for the crowd. It will draw 100 amps as it belts out your favorite tune when driving thru Sonic… “I'm The Only Hell Mama Ever Raised”.

Now you’re up to 700 amps of load.

But wait not all is lost. Your remember that NeverStart battery you bought several years ago at Pappa Joe’s Greasydicks house of auto parts and stomach pump room. You remember it well as it was about the time your girlfriend made you quit that job as a slit lubricator. You check your battery and it has 700 amps.

Total load is 700 amps, your battery gives you 700, and the alternator provides an additional 117, so you now have 817 amps total. The regulator will divvy up this load amongst the various electrical draws taking some from the battery and the alternator as required. If you exceed the amount then things will get dim or slow down and operate on what they can get.

Simplistic but I think you see how it works, being shared between alternator and battery. That is way a good strong fresh battery is so important.

And, to answer your question. Yes the 117 amp alt is enough, as long as you have a good battery, but the 136 amp would be a better pick if you can do it.

[Tom Schenk]

"looking like a cheap carnny ride in a Wal Mart Parking lot, when your wheeling buddy gets stuck on the Sonic curb. You run to his assistance, like a hooker looking for a $10 spot".

"Now the cheesy aluminum wired winch you bought at Harbor Fright pulls more amps than the circle jerk at Sonic".

But being the kool tool you are and knowing the entire Sonic is watching this parking lot recovery you flip the switch for CD player and let it spin some tunes for the crowd. It will draw 100 amps as it belts out your favorite tune when driving thru Sonic… “I'm The Only Hell Mama Ever Raised”.

"You remember that NeverStart battery you bought several years ago at Pappa Joe’s Greasydicks house of auto parts and stomach pump room. You remember it well as it was about the time your girlfriend made you quit that job as a slit lubricator".



Don,

This is hands down the funniest ****ing post I have ever read!:D Nice job.

[SavageSun4x4]

Don,

This is hands down the funniest ****ing post I have ever read!:D Nice job.
Thanks Tom, I try to put a bit 'o humor in my writings from time to time...:)

[Felix Santi]

I bought a 165a one for 85 bucks. Now when I'm at the mall, using the winch to help lower the Sears flag, the lights won't dim. I think it kicks 60-80a at idle, 165a at 1600rmp.

[SavageSun4x4]

I bought a 165a one for 85 bucks. Now when I'm at the mall, using the winch to help lower the Sears flag, the lights won't dim. I think it kicks 60-80a at idle, 165a at 1600rmp.
Yea, that 3'x5' flag gets real heavy when it rains:D

[Felix Santi]

Yea, that 3'x5' flag gets real heavy when it rains:D

3x5...nah, I mean the really big plastic one. Plus it affects my espresso machine output.

[mingoglia]

I picked mine up the first week in Sept, in fact it was the very first Rubicon shipped to Dallas-Ft Worth Jeep dealers.

You know Don, although I'm sure you weren't here back then if you were to buy your Rubi from Airpak back then their Rubi's that were built last week of August had the larger alternators.... :D

[tjjeepboy]

that there was funny, good one don

[whitewrangler]

Anyone know of a good alt upgrade for a v belt 258? I think mine is a 90. I really haven't been able to find anything for v belt engines.

Thanks

[Capt-Kirk]

I bought a 165a one for 85 bucks. Now when I'm at the mall, using the winch to help lower the Sears flag, the lights won't dim. I think it kicks 60-80a at idle, 165a at 1600rmp.

Now that is enough to weld with

Where did you get it?

[FlexyXJ]

LOL. My 00 Tj 4cyl has the 117 amp alternator. Don, I have to disagree with you, they are NOT internally regulated. The way the voltage is controlled is by the Computer grounding the field circuit on the Alternator. there is no actual voltage regulator in the alternator, its all done by the PCM Depending on demand. The PCM will only allow the alternator to "full field" for a maximum of 45 seconds, so your winching plan is way off base also. This mod does work on the 97-2002 models, I can personaly say I have done them. The alternator to get if you really want some power is the 94-98 Ram 2500/3500 Cummins Diesel alternator. It does 185 amps @ full load. (but those are not cheap) Also remember, that the alternator is only going to put out what the electrical system needs to "Maintain". Its not a "charging" type system. Thats why you always hear of peoples Jeeps not holding an Idle after the battery goes dead.


Joe

[FlexyXJ]

The early YJ's use a basic GM 2 wire alternator. Should be pretty easy to find. I got one for Hackle's old 258, but it was almost 5 years ago, and I'll be damned if I can remember what it was for....:( Hackle might.


Joe


Anyone know of a good alt upgrade for a v belt 258? I think mine is a 90. I really haven't been able to find anything for v belt engines.

Thanks

[SavageSun4x4]

LOL. My 00 Tj 4cyl has the 117 amp alternator. Don, I have to disagree with you, they are NOT internally regulated. The way the voltage is controlled is by the Computer grounding the field circuit on the Alternator. there is no actual voltage regulator in the alternator, its all done by the PCM Depending on demand.

The PCM will only allow the alternator to "full field" for a maximum of 45 seconds, so your winching plan is way off base also.
Joe
You are correct on the PCM controlled alternator. HOWEVER that is limited in its application and is a relatively new implementation as are alternators, which have only been in common use since the mid 60's. I saw my first one on a '64 Chevy.

That said, addressing ONLY alternators and not auto generators there are indeed 3 types of regulators. External, internal and the [hopefully] new and improved PCM or computer controlled units.

As for the system being only a maintenance system rather than a charging system I think you are disputing word definition. For in fact it does respond to requirements. If it were only a maintenance system as described then a very heavy draw such as a winch, lights etc would deplete the battery to the point of no return and we would be buying batteries like cupcakes.

As for the "full field" scenario that 45 seconds may often be true, but the times vary across the boards due to many factors. The full field limit is based upon parameters set to prevent overheating of alternator, battery and cabling. Full field will boil and cook your battery, melt wires and possibly start a fire as a result. A quit look under the battery will show a battery temp sensor. Full fielding can be and is repeated on a periodic basis.

Often a fully discharged battery will not allow a system to idle, this has far more to do with lawsuits than electrical systems. Getting an engine run with a completely discharged battery and an alternator is not rocket science, just not common in many of today's autos and PCM controlled. But we do not have to go back many years to see it done.

But as I said..."for illustrative purposes only":D

[GRUNT]

Yes, I concur. And fully understand all of this... (Sha right!) What can I change my 93 4cyl. YJ to without setting it on fire?!

[GruveB]

I just installed a taurus fan in my 80 CJ7. The charging system is taxed! I'm all about this 136 amp alternator, but am curious about the pulley and belt situation. In the tech article, it appears that the belt wasn't the old archiac type like I have now. Can I still do that upgrade?