blooddrive
01-03-2004, 11:22 AM
18695-18719
18695 From: <jaylalib@a...>
Date: Mon Feb 12, 2001 2:06pm
Subject: Jeep Jamboree
Does anyone know when the Jeep Jamboree is and is it worth going?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
18696 From: <jcorley@i...>
Date: Mon Feb 12, 2001 7:10pm
Subject: READ THIS!!!
I got this sent to me if you can help PLEASE DO.
Subject: Thursday meeting
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:20:05 -0700
From: "Mr Ed" <mred@m...>
Read This and Join Me
(Read it Completely)
Please Pass this on to all you friends, let's go and make a night
of it.
Wear a bright RED HAT or TEE at least.
(other clothing optional)
Lets pick a spot to meet prior to meeting
REMINDER
THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2001 AT 6:00 p.m.
DESERT CANYON MIDDLE SCHOOL CAFETERIA
10203 E. McDowell Mountain Ranch Road, Scottsdale
DIRECTIONS: Pima north to FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT BLVD
EAST on Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd, to THOMPSON PEAK PARKWAY
NORTH on Thompson Peak Parkway, over the bridge to McDOWELL MOUNTAIN
RANCH ROAD, EAST on McDowell Mountain Ranch Rd to the SCHOOL.
WEAR A RED HAT OR SHIRT.
WE NEED TO LOOK UNITED!
You DO NOT have to speak, JUST BE THERE!!!! "YOUR" presence might
be the "ONE" that counted!!!! Don't sit back and expect "the
other guy" to do this. WE NEED YOU. This is just the first of
many
"land grabs" and "lost trails" if we don't start "SHOWING OUR
PRESENCE" WE NEED YOU!!!
This meeting is one of the most important meetings since the FS
Roadless Meetings of a year or two ago... (we DID NOT make much of
a showing and we LOST A LOT as a result). If we don't show for
this one folks, it's just the first of many we'll be seeing on the
CLOSURE LIST.
The "ROLLS" area north of Saguaro Lake is on the map for closure
and this one IS 4-WHEELER COUNTRY.
Sycamore is always on the edge......... Forest Service has just
closed a bunch of trails around the Superstitions. Those were the
LAST of any motorized use in this area. We aren't going to save
everything but you can bet your boots,if we don't start SHOWING we
will eventually LOSE EVERYTHING.
PLEASE RALLY TOGETHER and make a showing at this meeting. The
basic
deal is the City of Scottsdale has petitioned the State Land Dept.
to make this area at Dynamite & Pima roads into a NON motorized
RESERVE. The Land Dept. is not wanting to eliminate motorized use
but if MOTORIZED USERS DO NOT make a showing they will have nothing
to stand on and will bend to the greens! If we lose motorized use
here we also lose access into the Tonto NF north of this area.
WHERE DOES IT STOP???? YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE. WE CAN SHOW THE
GREENS WE FINALLY MEAN BUSINESS !!!!!!!
A list of "talking points" for your information.
Tom Bickauskas
tbickauskas@h...
480 968-1647 x333
HOPE TO SEE ABOUT 500 OHV ENTHUSIASTS THERE!!!
PLEASE FORWARD THIS TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST
This Thursday February 15th
MARK THE DATE.
Your Crazy Wheeling buddy
.............................................. Mr. Ed ...........
18697 From: James Towle <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Mon Feb 12, 2001 7:26pm
Subject: Re: READ THIS!!! ...Thanks
Thank you for the information. I will try to get up there Thursday.
IT WILL NOT END UNLESS WE LET IT.
--James
--- In az_vjc@y..., jcorley@i... wrote:
> I got this sent to me if you can help PLEASE DO.
>
>
>
> Subject: Thursday meeting
> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:20:05 -0700
> From: "Mr Ed" <mred@m...>
>
>
> Read This and Join Me
> (Read it Completely)
>
> Please Pass this on to all you friends, let's go and make a night
> of it.
> Wear a bright RED HAT or TEE at least.
> (other clothing optional)
> Lets pick a spot to meet prior to meeting
> REMINDER
> THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2001 AT 6:00 p.m.
>
> DESERT CANYON MIDDLE SCHOOL CAFETERIA
> 10203 E. McDowell Mountain Ranch Road, Scottsdale
> DIRECTIONS: Pima north to FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT BLVD
> EAST on Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd, to THOMPSON PEAK PARKWAY
> NORTH on Thompson Peak Parkway, over the bridge to McDOWELL
MOUNTAIN
> RANCH ROAD, EAST on McDowell Mountain Ranch Rd to the SCHOOL.
>
> WEAR A RED HAT OR SHIRT.
> WE NEED TO LOOK UNITED!
>
> You DO NOT have to speak, JUST BE THERE!!!! "YOUR" presence
might
> be the "ONE" that counted!!!! Don't sit back and expect "the
> other guy" to do this. WE NEED YOU. This is just the first of
> many
> "land grabs" and "lost trails" if we don't start "SHOWING OUR
> PRESENCE" WE NEED YOU!!!
>
> This meeting is one of the most important meetings since the FS
> Roadless Meetings of a year or two ago... (we DID NOT make much
of
> a showing and we LOST A LOT as a result). If we don't show for
> this one folks, it's just the first of many we'll be seeing on
the
> CLOSURE LIST.
>
> The "ROLLS" area north of Saguaro Lake is on the map for closure
> and this one IS 4-WHEELER COUNTRY.
>
> Sycamore is always on the edge......... Forest Service has just
> closed a bunch of trails around the Superstitions. Those were
the
> LAST of any motorized use in this area. We aren't going to
save
> everything but you can bet your boots,if we don't start SHOWING
we
> will eventually LOSE EVERYTHING.
>
> PLEASE RALLY TOGETHER and make a showing at this meeting. The
> basic
> deal is the City of Scottsdale has petitioned the State Land
Dept.
> to make this area at Dynamite & Pima roads into a NON
motorized
> RESERVE. The Land Dept. is not wanting to eliminate motorized
use
> but if MOTORIZED USERS DO NOT make a showing they will have
nothing
> to stand on and will bend to the greens! If we lose motorized
use
> here we also lose access into the Tonto NF north of this area.
>
> WHERE DOES IT STOP???? YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE. WE CAN SHOW
THE
> GREENS WE FINALLY MEAN BUSINESS !!!!!!!
>
> A list of "talking points" for your information.
> Tom Bickauskas
> tbickauskas@h...
> 480 968-1647 x333
>
> HOPE TO SEE ABOUT 500 OHV ENTHUSIASTS THERE!!!
> PLEASE FORWARD THIS TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST
> This Thursday February 15th
> MARK THE DATE.
>
> Your Crazy Wheeling buddy
>
> .............................................. Mr.
Ed ...........
18698 From: Len Sullivan <kermit@e...>
Date: Mon Feb 12, 2001 7:18pm
Subject: Re: READ THIS!!!
Pam has to work then, but I'll be there. Anybody remember where we got
married?
Just look for the big white J-10 in the parking lot.
Len
-----Original Message-----
From: jcorley@i... <jcorley@i...>
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, February 12, 2001 8:08 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] READ THIS!!!
>I got this sent to me if you can help PLEASE DO.
>
>
>
>Subject: Thursday meeting
>Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:20:05 -0700
>From: "Mr Ed" <mred@m...>
>
>
> Read This and Join Me
> (Read it Completely)
>
> Please Pass this on to all you friends, let's go and make a night
> of it.
> Wear a bright RED HAT or TEE at least.
> (other clothing optional)
> Lets pick a spot to meet prior to meeting
> REMINDER
> THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2001 AT 6:00 p.m.
>
> DESERT CANYON MIDDLE SCHOOL CAFETERIA
> 10203 E. McDowell Mountain Ranch Road, Scottsdale
> DIRECTIONS: Pima north to FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT BLVD
> EAST on Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd, to THOMPSON PEAK PARKWAY
> NORTH on Thompson Peak Parkway, over the bridge to McDOWELL MOUNTAIN
> RANCH ROAD, EAST on McDowell Mountain Ranch Rd to the SCHOOL.
>
> WEAR A RED HAT OR SHIRT.
> WE NEED TO LOOK UNITED!
>
> You DO NOT have to speak, JUST BE THERE!!!! "YOUR" presence might
> be the "ONE" that counted!!!! Don't sit back and expect "the
> other guy" to do this. WE NEED YOU. This is just the first of
> many
> "land grabs" and "lost trails" if we don't start "SHOWING OUR
> PRESENCE" WE NEED YOU!!!
>
> This meeting is one of the most important meetings since the FS
> Roadless Meetings of a year or two ago... (we DID NOT make much of
> a showing and we LOST A LOT as a result). If we don't show for
> this one folks, it's just the first of many we'll be seeing on the
> CLOSURE LIST.
>
> The "ROLLS" area north of Saguaro Lake is on the map for closure
> and this one IS 4-WHEELER COUNTRY.
>
> Sycamore is always on the edge......... Forest Service has just
> closed a bunch of trails around the Superstitions. Those were the
> LAST of any motorized use in this area. We aren't going to save
> everything but you can bet your boots,if we don't start SHOWING we
> will eventually LOSE EVERYTHING.
>
> PLEASE RALLY TOGETHER and make a showing at this meeting. The
> basic
> deal is the City of Scottsdale has petitioned the State Land Dept.
> to make this area at Dynamite & Pima roads into a NON motorized
> RESERVE. The Land Dept. is not wanting to eliminate motorized use
> but if MOTORIZED USERS DO NOT make a showing they will have nothing
> to stand on and will bend to the greens! If we lose motorized use
> here we also lose access into the Tonto NF north of this area.
>
> WHERE DOES IT STOP???? YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE. WE CAN SHOW THE
> GREENS WE FINALLY MEAN BUSINESS !!!!!!!
>
> A list of "talking points" for your information.
> Tom Bickauskas
> tbickauskas@h...
> 480 968-1647 x333
>
> HOPE TO SEE ABOUT 500 OHV ENTHUSIASTS THERE!!!
> PLEASE FORWARD THIS TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST
> This Thursday February 15th
> MARK THE DATE.
>
>Your Crazy Wheeling buddy
>
>.............................................. Mr. Ed ...........
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
18699 From: Greg Stapley <love24wheel@h...>
Date: Mon Feb 12, 2001 8:13pm
Subject: Re: Since ARCA is bypassing us this year how bout a VJC competition?
I think the idea is great, but the date and planning would take a long time... I am very impatient..
>From: "LarryM"
>Reply-To: "LarryM"
>To: "azvjc"
>Subject: [az_vjc] Since ARCA is bypassing us this year how bout a VJC competition?
>Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:53:03 -0700
>
>I was watching the video of last years ARCA challenge out at Flo Junction
>and was kinda bummed its not going to be here this year.
>
>It got me thinking that it would be cool to have our own 'unclub' challenge.
>5 to 7 obsticles per class, classes based on tire size perhaps.
>
>Any thoughts? Too hard to manage and organize?
>
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
18700 From: KHD1972 <KHD1972@m...>
Date: Mon Feb 12, 2001 8:59pm
Subject: Re: READ THIS!!!
Count me in! Any decision on meeting before hand and where?
----- Original Message -----
From: <jcorley@i...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 8:10 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] READ THIS!!!
> I got this sent to me if you can help PLEASE DO.
>
>
>
> Subject: Thursday meeting
> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:20:05 -0700
> From: "Mr Ed" <mred@m...>
>
>
> Read This and Join Me
> (Read it Completely)
>
> Please Pass this on to all you friends, let's go and make a night
> of it.
> Wear a bright RED HAT or TEE at least.
> (other clothing optional)
> Lets pick a spot to meet prior to meeting
> REMINDER
> THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2001 AT 6:00 p.m.
>
> DESERT CANYON MIDDLE SCHOOL CAFETERIA
> 10203 E. McDowell Mountain Ranch Road, Scottsdale
> DIRECTIONS: Pima north to FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT BLVD
> EAST on Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd, to THOMPSON PEAK PARKWAY
> NORTH on Thompson Peak Parkway, over the bridge to McDOWELL MOUNTAIN
> RANCH ROAD, EAST on McDowell Mountain Ranch Rd to the SCHOOL.
>
> WEAR A RED HAT OR SHIRT.
> WE NEED TO LOOK UNITED!
>
> You DO NOT have to speak, JUST BE THERE!!!! "YOUR" presence might
> be the "ONE" that counted!!!! Don't sit back and expect "the
> other guy" to do this. WE NEED YOU. This is just the first of
> many
> "land grabs" and "lost trails" if we don't start "SHOWING OUR
> PRESENCE" WE NEED YOU!!!
>
> This meeting is one of the most important meetings since the FS
> Roadless Meetings of a year or two ago... (we DID NOT make much of
> a showing and we LOST A LOT as a result). If we don't show for
> this one folks, it's just the first of many we'll be seeing on the
> CLOSURE LIST.
>
> The "ROLLS" area north of Saguaro Lake is on the map for closure
> and this one IS 4-WHEELER COUNTRY.
>
> Sycamore is always on the edge......... Forest Service has just
> closed a bunch of trails around the Superstitions. Those were the
> LAST of any motorized use in this area. We aren't going to save
> everything but you can bet your boots,if we don't start SHOWING we
> will eventually LOSE EVERYTHING.
>
> PLEASE RALLY TOGETHER and make a showing at this meeting. The
> basic
> deal is the City of Scottsdale has petitioned the State Land Dept.
> to make this area at Dynamite & Pima roads into a NON motorized
> RESERVE. The Land Dept. is not wanting to eliminate motorized use
> but if MOTORIZED USERS DO NOT make a showing they will have nothing
> to stand on and will bend to the greens! If we lose motorized use
> here we also lose access into the Tonto NF north of this area.
>
> WHERE DOES IT STOP???? YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE. WE CAN SHOW THE
> GREENS WE FINALLY MEAN BUSINESS !!!!!!!
>
> A list of "talking points" for your information.
> Tom Bickauskas
> tbickauskas@h...
> 480 968-1647 x333
>
> HOPE TO SEE ABOUT 500 OHV ENTHUSIASTS THERE!!!
> PLEASE FORWARD THIS TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST
> This Thursday February 15th
> MARK THE DATE.
>
> Your Crazy Wheeling buddy
>
> .............................................. Mr. Ed ...........
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
18701 From: LarryM <jeeperaz@q...>
Date: Mon Feb 12, 2001 8:49pm
Subject: Jeep vs moving train
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=228683&a=10529068&p=39117891
18702 From: Rick VH <rick_vh@y...>
Date: Mon Feb 12, 2001 10:36pm
Subject: Re: Jeep vs moving train
I think that tire and wheel is still ok.
Thing about trains is they never come in last in a
wreck. The only time they dont win is with another
train, and thats a tie.
rick vh
--- LarryM <jeeperaz@q...> wrote:
>
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=228683&a=10529068&p=39117891
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
18703 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 5:01am
Subject: Re: Since ARCA is bypassing us this year how bout a VJC competition?
Actually, Bill Mish had a great idea...develop a friendly competition
between local clubs. Each club would put on it's own, and then would compete
with the winners from the other clubs. ASA would be the perfect sponsoring
organization...the only problem being that they don't recognize us since we
don't pay the ASA dues.
Either way, I think it's a neat idea.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryM" <jeeperaz@q...>
To: "azvjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 7:53 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Since ARCA is bypassing us this year how bout a VJC
competition?
> I was watching the video of last years ARCA challenge out at Flo Junction
> and was kinda bummed its not going to be here this year.
>
> It got me thinking that it would be cool to have our own 'unclub'
challenge.
> 5 to 7 obsticles per class, classes based on tire size perhaps.
>
> Any thoughts? Too hard to manage and organize?
>
>
>
>
18704 From: Jon Loveless <jonloveless@m...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 5:17am
Subject: Re:Read This
The Rolls area is heavily used by a number of those Hummer tour groups. I have seen a train of as many as 10 - each with 6 people in it heading up that long hill out from the Coves. That is big bucks for them when a corporation rents their fleet.Does anyone know how to get a hold of them to be sure they are there??
Peter Wirch, don't you know someone at Desert Fox?
Jon
At 04:44 AM 2/13/2001 +0000, you wrote:
> THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2001 AT 6:00 p.m.
>
> DESERT CANYON MIDDLE SCHOOL CAFETERIA
> 10203 E. McDowell Mountain Ranch Road, Scottsdale
> DIRECTIONS: Pima north to FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT BLVD
> EAST on Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd, to THOMPSON PEAK PARKWAY
> NORTH on Thompson Peak Parkway, over the bridge to McDOWELL MOUNTAIN
> RANCH ROAD, EAST on McDowell Mountain Ranch Rd to the SCHOOL.
>
> WEAR A RED HAT OR SHIRT.
> WE NEED TO LOOK UNITED!
>
> You DO NOT have to speak, JUST BE THERE!!!! "YOUR" presence might
> be the "ONE" that counted!!!! Don't sit back and expect "the
> other guy" to do this. WE NEED YOU. This is just the first of
> many
> "land grabs" and "lost trails" if we don't start "SHOWING OUR
> PRESENCE" WE NEED YOU!!!
>
> This meeting is one of the most important meetings since the FS
> Roadless Meetings of a year or two ago... (we DID NOT make much of
> a showing and we LOST A LOT as a result). If we don't show for
> this one folks, it's just the first of many we'll be seeing on the
> CLOSURE LIST.
>
> The "ROLLS" area north of Saguaro Lake is on the map for closure
> and this one IS 4-WHEELER COUNTRY.
>
> Sycamore is always on the edge......... Forest Service has just
> closed a bunch of trails around the Superstitions. Those were the
> LAST of any motorized use in this area. We aren't going to save
> everything but you can bet your boots,if we don't start SHOWING we
> will eventually LOSE EVERYTHING.
>
18705 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 5:41am
Subject: Re: MDA Jamboree
Huh? MDA isn't willing to accept a donation of less than $20,000?
I don't get it. I'm sure I could find another charity that would!
I must be missing some details here. Can someone clue me in?
-Roger
jcorley@i... wrote:
>
> Hi All, I just got off the phone with Mr. Ed and he told me that the
> jamboree is off. MDA wanted guaranteed of $20,000. The state
> could not so it is off. If you want to check with Sandee McCullen
> here is her e-mail: mccullen@w... she would have the last say.
>
> Jim
> 97 TJ
> Locked & Lifted
18706 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 5:47am
Subject: Re: Re:Read This
Not trying to be a traitor or anything...but the Rolls/Coves is probably the best example of how not to wheel. The area was decimated by the Lone Pine fire, and since then, many, many, wild cat trails have been cut, and the area gets totally trashed on a regular basis. Everytime I'm out there (which isn't much anymore) I see new trails cut, and a fresh collection of trash strewn about. I recall seeing one guy on an AzVJC run just cut himself a new trail down one of the hills. Apparently his attitude was that the place was trashed and burned anyway, so it didn't matter. A number of people tried to explain the error in his thinking, and I believe he quit the club as a result (no loss there). I recall another instance where some drunken wheelers at the Rollls were ramming a suguaro w/ their vehicle. That kinda stuff really pisses me off.
For those that want to close all trails, all they have to do is look at the Rolls for fuel for their fire. It reinforces their stereotype of 4 wheelers as beer guzzling, trash throwing yahoos driving over Bambi's and shooting up suguaro's.
If we weren't dealing with irrational environmentalists that would insist on keeping places closed forever, I think the best thing to do would be to give the area a break for a while and allow the land to heal for both the fire and from overuse and off trail driving. It's really a bit of an open scar as it exists now. Unfortunately, the extremists on the other side would never let it be reopened.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Loveless
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 6:17 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re:Read This
The Rolls area is heavily used by a number of those Hummer tour groups. I have seen a train of as many as 10 - each with 6 people in it heading up that long hill out from the Coves. That is big bucks for them when a corporation rents their fleet.Does anyone know how to get a hold of them to be sure they are there??
Peter Wirch, don't you know someone at Desert Fox?
Jon
At 04:44 AM 2/13/2001 +0000, you wrote:
> THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2001 AT 6:00 p.m.
>
> DESERT CANYON MIDDLE SCHOOL CAFETERIA
> 10203 E. McDowell Mountain Ranch Road, Scottsdale
> DIRECTIONS: Pima north to FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT BLVD
> EAST on Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd, to THOMPSON PEAK PARKWAY
> NORTH on Thompson Peak Parkway, over the bridge to McDOWELL MOUNTAIN
> RANCH ROAD, EAST on McDowell Mountain Ranch Rd to the SCHOOL.
>
> WEAR A RED HAT OR SHIRT.
> WE NEED TO LOOK UNITED!
>
> You DO NOT have to speak, JUST BE THERE!!!! "YOUR" presence might
> be the "ONE" that counted!!!! Don't sit back and expect "the
> other guy" to do this. WE NEED YOU. This is just the first of
> many
> "land grabs" and "lost trails" if we don't start "SHOWING OUR
> PRESENCE" WE NEED YOU!!!
>
> This meeting is one of the most important meetings since the FS
> Roadless Meetings of a year or two ago... (we DID NOT make much of
> a showing and we LOST A LOT as a result). If we don't show for
> this one folks, it's just the first of many we'll be seeing on the
> CLOSURE LIST.
>
> The "ROLLS" area north of Saguaro Lake is on the map for closure
> and this one IS 4-WHEELER COUNTRY.
>
> Sycamore is always on the edge......... Forest Service has just
> closed a bunch of trails around the Superstitions. Those were the
> LAST of any motorized use in this area. We aren't going to save
> everything but you can bet your boots,if we don't start SHOWING we
> will eventually LOSE EVERYTHING.
>
18707 From: Daver <daver@c...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 5:55am
Subject: Re: Re:Read This
Doug wrote:
> Not trying to be a traitor or anything...but the Rolls/Coves is probably the best example of how not to wheel. The area was decimated by the Lone Pine fire,
> and since then, many, many, wild cat trails have been cut, and the area gets totally trashed on a regular basis. Everytime I'm out there (which isn't much
> anymore) I see new trails cut, and a fresh collection of trash strewn about. I recall seeing one guy on an AzVJC run just cut himself a new trail down one of
> the hills. Apparently his attitude was that the place was trashed and burned anyway, so it didn't matter. A number of people tried to explain the error in his
> thinking, and I believe he quit the club as a result (no loss there). I recall another instance where some drunken wheelers at the Rollls were ramming a
> suguaro w/ their vehicle. That kinda stuff really pisses me off.
>
> For those that want to close all trails, all they have to do is look at the Rolls for fuel for their fire. It reinforces their stereotype of 4 wheelers as beer guzzling,
> trash throwing yahoos driving over Bambi's and shooting up suguaro's.
>
> If we weren't dealing with irrational environmentalists that would insist on keeping places closed forever, I think the best thing to do would be to give the
> area a break for a while and allow the land to heal for both the fire and from overuse and off trail driving. It's really a bit of an open scar as it exists now.
> Unfortunately, the extremists on the other side would never let it be reopened.
My opinion? Fine and ticket those that 1) discard trash 2) cut illegal
trails 3) bash saguaros 4) illegally shoot. And leave it open.
Goddamnit. "Since little Johnny here can't behave himself, the ENTIRE
CLASS has to stay in at recess." I hate that. I understand your point,
however, your last sentence is VERY true. And then some.
18708 From: Pete Wirch <wirch@m...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:03am
Subject: RE: Re:Read This
Jon,
Yeah I know John at Desert Dog Hummer Adventures. I'll get a hold of him and let him know. All the Hummer tour companies work together for big runs so they all know each other. I'll make sure they know about this and find out what they plan on doing to help out.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Loveless [mailto:jonloveless@mindspring.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 6:17 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re:Read This
The Rolls area is heavily used by a number of those Hummer tour groups. I have seen a train of as many as 10 - each with 6 people in it heading up that long hill out from the Coves. That is big bucks for them when a corporation rents their fleet.Does anyone know how to get a hold of them to be sure they are there??
Peter Wirch, don't you know someone at Desert Fox?
Jon
At 04:44 AM 2/13/2001 +0000, you wrote:
> THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2001 AT 6:00 p.m.
>
> DESERT CANYON MIDDLE SCHOOL CAFETERIA
> 10203 E. McDowell Mountain Ranch Road, Scottsdale
> DIRECTIONS: Pima north to FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT BLVD
> EAST on Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd, to THOMPSON PEAK PARKWAY
> NORTH on Thompson Peak Parkway, over the bridge to McDOWELL MOUNTAIN
> RANCH ROAD, EAST on McDowell Mountain Ranch Rd to the SCHOOL.
>
> WEAR A RED HAT OR SHIRT.
> WE NEED TO LOOK UNITED!
>
> You DO NOT have to speak, JUST BE THERE!!!! "YOUR" presence might
> be the "ONE" that counted!!!! Don't sit back and expect "the
> other guy" to do this. WE NEED YOU. This is just the first of
> many
> "land grabs" and "lost trails" if we don't start "SHOWING OUR
> PRESENCE" WE NEED YOU!!!
>
> This meeting is one of the most important meetings since the FS
> Roadless Meetings of a year or two ago... (we DID NOT make much of
> a showing and we LOST A LOT as a result). If we don't show for
> this one folks, it's just the first of many we'll be seeing on the
> CLOSURE LIST.
>
> The "ROLLS" area north of Saguaro Lake is on the map for closure
> and this one IS 4-WHEELER COUNTRY.
>
> Sycamore is always on the edge......... Forest Service has just
> closed a bunch of trails around the Superstitions. Those were the
> LAST of any motorized use in this area. We aren't going to save
> everything but you can bet your boots,if we don't start SHOWING we
> will eventually LOSE EVERYTHING.
>
18709 From: James Towle <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:02am
Subject: Re:Read This
Where were the cameras? We all tend to take pictures of our off road
adventures right? Why didn't somebody take pictures and turn them in?
It's easy to say (because I've done it too), it's not my business.
Take pictures getting the license number in them and turn the
*******s in.
I have seen people out by the Salt River (before it was closed) with
front end loaders, picking up boulders and basically tearing up the
landscape. Man if I would have had a camera, at that time, I would
have hung them out.
Just an idea.
--James
--- In az_vjc@y..., "DougB" <azjeep@h...> wrote:
> Not trying to be a traitor or anything...but the Rolls/Coves is
probably the best example of how not to wheel. The area was decimated
by the Lone Pine fire, and since then, many, many, wild cat trails
have been cut, and the area gets totally trashed on a regular basis.
Everytime I'm out there (which isn't much anymore) I see new trails
cut, and a fresh collection of trash strewn about. I recall seeing
one guy on an AzVJC run just cut himself a new trail down one of the
hills. Apparently his attitude was that the place was trashed and
burned anyway, so it didn't matter. A number of people tried to
explain the error in his thinking, and I believe he quit the club as
a result (no loss there). I recall another instance where some
drunken wheelers at the Rollls were ramming a suguaro w/ their
vehicle. That kinda stuff really pisses me off.
>
> For those that want to close all trails, all they have to do is
look at the Rolls for fuel for their fire. It reinforces their
stereotype of 4 wheelers as beer guzzling, trash throwing yahoos
driving over Bambi's and shooting up suguaro's.
>
> If we weren't dealing with irrational environmentalists that would
insist on keeping places closed forever, I think the best thing to do
would be to give the area a break for a while and allow the land to
heal for both the fire and from overuse and off trail driving. It's
really a bit of an open scar as it exists now. Unfortunately, the
extremists on the other side would never let it be reopened.
>
> Doug
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jon Loveless
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 6:17 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re:Read This
>
>
> The Rolls area is heavily used by a number of those Hummer tour
groups. I have seen a train of as many as 10 - each with 6 people in
it heading up that long hill out from the Coves. That is big bucks
for them when a corporation rents their fleet.Does anyone know how to
get a hold of them to be sure they are there??
>
> Peter Wirch, don't you know someone at Desert Fox?
>
> Jon
>
> At 04:44 AM 2/13/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>
> > THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2001 AT 6:00 p.m.
> >
> > DESERT CANYON MIDDLE SCHOOL CAFETERIA
> > 10203 E. McDowell Mountain Ranch Road,
Scottsdale
> > DIRECTIONS: Pima north to FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT
BLVD
> > EAST on Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd, to THOMPSON PEAK PARKWAY
> > NORTH on Thompson Peak Parkway, over the bridge to McDOWELL
MOUNTAIN
> > RANCH ROAD, EAST on McDowell Mountain Ranch Rd to the SCHOOL.
> >
> > WEAR A RED HAT OR SHIRT.
> > WE NEED TO LOOK UNITED!
> >
> > You DO NOT have to speak, JUST BE THERE!!!! "YOUR"
presence might
> > be the "ONE" that counted!!!! Don't sit back and
expect "the
> > other guy" to do this. WE NEED YOU. This is just the
first of
> > many
> > "land grabs" and "lost trails" if we don't start "SHOWING
OUR
> > PRESENCE" WE NEED YOU!!!
> >
> > This meeting is one of the most important meetings since
the FS
> > Roadless Meetings of a year or two ago... (we DID NOT make
much of
> > a showing and we LOST A LOT as a result). If we don't show
for
> > this one folks, it's just the first of many we'll be seeing
on the
> > CLOSURE LIST.
> >
> > The "ROLLS" area north of Saguaro Lake is on the map for
closure
> > and this one IS 4-WHEELER COUNTRY.
> >
> > Sycamore is always on the edge......... Forest Service has
just
> > closed a bunch of trails around the Superstitions. Those
were the
> > LAST of any motorized use in this area. We aren't going to
save
> > everything but you can bet your boots,if we don't start
SHOWING we
> > will eventually LOSE EVERYTHING.
> >
18710 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:17am
Subject: RE: State Jamboree dates
The MDA jamboree has been canceled. MDA pulled out.
-----Original Message-----
From: jraya@attglobal.net [mailto:jraya@attglobal.net]
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 5:10 PM
To: Hal Loy
Cc: AZ Virtual Jeep Club
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] State Jamboree dates
The MDA jamboree is April 27- 29. Runs are fri & Sat theres a rock crawl exhibition on Sun. Sandee said the application should be on there website sometime this week.
mccullen@writeme.com
Thx Judy
Hal Loy wrote:
I need to put in my vacation requests for this year and I'd like to go to the Jamboree, does anyone know the dates or Sandy McCullens(Sp.) e-mail so I can ask her? TIA,
Hal Loy
Tucson Roughriders
AZ Virtual Jeep Club
ASA4WDC
tucsonhal@earthlink.net I Jeep, therefore I am.
18711 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:24am
Subject: Re: Re:Read This
Good suggestion. I don't always have one (camera), but I do get involved. We
had one guy (from another club) on a recent run of Miner's Revenge, who was
needlessly tearing up some vegetation. I asked him to stop, and he
did...though I really don't think he got the concept.
In a free society, we (fortunately) don't have cops everywhere to write a
ticket when someone does something stupid. The responsibility of living in a
free society is to police ourselves. As a group, I think AzVJC does this
extremely well. When ever I'm on a run with the club, I see people (myself
included) picking up trash others have left behind. I rarely see someone off
trail driving, and when this happens, others step in to advise.
I'm very proud to be a member of AzVJC and recognize all the good things
(clean ups, etc) that we and out members have done. Unfortunately, there are
a lot of irresponsible people out there that are ****ing up the land and we
will pay for it. One of the principle reasons I'm into 4 wheeling is to
enjoy the wilderness...not to tear it up and destroy it.
Anyway...Happy Trails....
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 7:02 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re:Read This
>
> Where were the cameras? We all tend to take pictures of our off road
> adventures right? Why didn't somebody take pictures and turn them in?
> It's easy to say (because I've done it too), it's not my business.
> Take pictures getting the license number in them and turn the
> *******s in.
> I have seen people out by the Salt River (before it was closed) with
> front end loaders, picking up boulders and basically tearing up the
> landscape. Man if I would have had a camera, at that time, I would
> have hung them out.
> Just an idea.
>
> --James
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "DougB" <azjeep@h...> wrote:
> > Not trying to be a traitor or anything...but the Rolls/Coves is
> probably the best example of how not to wheel. The area was decimated
> by the Lone Pine fire, and since then, many, many, wild cat trails
> have been cut, and the area gets totally trashed on a regular basis.
> Everytime I'm out there (which isn't much anymore) I see new trails
> cut, and a fresh collection of trash strewn about. I recall seeing
> one guy on an AzVJC run just cut himself a new trail down one of the
> hills. Apparently his attitude was that the place was trashed and
> burned anyway, so it didn't matter. A number of people tried to
> explain the error in his thinking, and I believe he quit the club as
> a result (no loss there). I recall another instance where some
> drunken wheelers at the Rollls were ramming a suguaro w/ their
> vehicle. That kinda stuff really pisses me off.
> >
> > For those that want to close all trails, all they have to do is
> look at the Rolls for fuel for their fire. It reinforces their
> stereotype of 4 wheelers as beer guzzling, trash throwing yahoos
> driving over Bambi's and shooting up suguaro's.
> >
> > If we weren't dealing with irrational environmentalists that would
> insist on keeping places closed forever, I think the best thing to do
> would be to give the area a break for a while and allow the land to
> heal for both the fire and from overuse and off trail driving. It's
> really a bit of an open scar as it exists now. Unfortunately, the
> extremists on the other side would never let it be reopened.
> >
> > Doug
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jon Loveless
> > To: az_vjc@y...
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 6:17 AM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re:Read This
> >
> >
> > The Rolls area is heavily used by a number of those Hummer tour
> groups. I have seen a train of as many as 10 - each with 6 people in
> it heading up that long hill out from the Coves. That is big bucks
> for them when a corporation rents their fleet.Does anyone know how to
> get a hold of them to be sure they are there??
> >
> > Peter Wirch, don't you know someone at Desert Fox?
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > At 04:44 AM 2/13/2001 +0000, you wrote:
> >
> > > THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2001 AT 6:00 p.m.
> > >
> > > DESERT CANYON MIDDLE SCHOOL CAFETERIA
> > > 10203 E. McDowell Mountain Ranch Road,
> Scottsdale
> > > DIRECTIONS: Pima north to FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT
> BLVD
> > > EAST on Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd, to THOMPSON PEAK PARKWAY
> > > NORTH on Thompson Peak Parkway, over the bridge to McDOWELL
> MOUNTAIN
> > > RANCH ROAD, EAST on McDowell Mountain Ranch Rd to the SCHOOL.
> > >
> > > WEAR A RED HAT OR SHIRT.
> > > WE NEED TO LOOK UNITED!
> > >
> > > You DO NOT have to speak, JUST BE THERE!!!! "YOUR"
> presence might
> > > be the "ONE" that counted!!!! Don't sit back and
> expect "the
> > > other guy" to do this. WE NEED YOU. This is just the
> first of
> > > many
> > > "land grabs" and "lost trails" if we don't start "SHOWING
> OUR
> > > PRESENCE" WE NEED YOU!!!
> > >
> > > This meeting is one of the most important meetings since
> the FS
> > > Roadless Meetings of a year or two ago... (we DID NOT make
> much of
> > > a showing and we LOST A LOT as a result). If we don't show
> for
> > > this one folks, it's just the first of many we'll be seeing
> on the
> > > CLOSURE LIST.
> > >
> > > The "ROLLS" area north of Saguaro Lake is on the map for
> closure
> > > and this one IS 4-WHEELER COUNTRY.
> > >
> > > Sycamore is always on the edge......... Forest Service has
> just
> > > closed a bunch of trails around the Superstitions. Those
> were the
> > > LAST of any motorized use in this area. We aren't going to
> save
> > > everything but you can bet your boots,if we don't start
> SHOWING we
> > > will eventually LOSE EVERYTHING.
> > >
>
>
>
>
18712 From: Dan Coley <mt_b@y...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:32am
Subject: Re: Jeep vs moving train
I guess those high-performance Z-rated Radial GT tires just don't
have the grip they claim too....on a jeep anyways. (I hope everyone
gets my sarcastic remark, in regards to the MORON that put Radial GT
tires on a Wrangler). If I offended someone, sorry, that but is just
flat wrong.
Dan
--- In az_vjc@y..., "LarryM" <jeeperaz@q...> wrote:
> http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=228683&a=10529068&p=39117891
18713 From: Daver <daver@c...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:42am
Subject: Re: Re: Jeep vs moving train
Dan Coley wrote:
> I guess those high-performance Z-rated Radial GT tires just don't
> have the grip they claim too....on a jeep anyways. (I hope everyone
> gets my sarcastic remark, in regards to the MORON that put Radial GT
> tires on a Wrangler). If I offended someone, sorry, that but is just
> flat wrong.
Dude. Those are his street/track tires. He probably has a set of cut and
grooved boggers for off-road. Sheesh.
18714 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:43am
Subject: RE: Re:Read This
I agree in part. I spend lots of time at the coves but I really do not wheel there anymore. I use the access to take my kids fishing and hunting. These activities we all forget about some times. The coves has some of the best quall hunting in Arizona. Yes there are more idiots out there then in most places but we can all do our part by point out there errors. I also pack out as much trash as I can carry every time I am there. If we let them close down the coves which is one of the most heavily used places around then how will we stop them from closing everything??
-----Original Message-----
From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@home.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 6:47 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re:Read This
Not trying to be a traitor or anything...but the Rolls/Coves is probably the best example of how not to wheel. The area was decimated by the Lone Pine fire, and since then, many, many, wild cat trails have been cut, and the area gets totally trashed on a regular basis. Everytime I'm out there (which isn't much anymore) I see new trails cut, and a fresh collection of trash strewn about. I recall seeing one guy on an AzVJC run just cut himself a new trail down one of the hills. Apparently his attitude was that the place was trashed and burned anyway, so it didn't matter. A number of people tried to explain the error in his thinking, and I believe he quit the club as a result (no loss there). I recall another instance where some drunken wheelers at the Rollls were ramming a suguaro w/ their vehicle. That kinda stuff really pisses me off.
For those that want to close all trails, all they have to do is look at the Rolls for fuel for their fire. It reinforces their stereotype of 4 wheelers as beer guzzling, trash throwing yahoos driving over Bambi's and shooting up suguaro's.
If we weren't dealing with irrational environmentalists that would insist on keeping places closed forever, I think the best thing to do would be to give the area a break for a while and allow the land to heal for both the fire and from overuse and off trail driving. It's really a bit of an open scar as it exists now. Unfortunately, the extremists on the other side would never let it be reopened.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Loveless
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 6:17 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re:Read This
The Rolls area is heavily used by a number of those Hummer tour groups. I have seen a train of as many as 10 - each with 6 people in it heading up that long hill out from the Coves. That is big bucks for them when a corporation rents their fleet.Does anyone know how to get a hold of them to be sure they are there??
Peter Wirch, don't you know someone at Desert Fox?
Jon
At 04:44 AM 2/13/2001 +0000, you wrote:
> THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2001 AT 6:00 p.m.
>
> DESERT CANYON MIDDLE SCHOOL CAFETERIA
> 10203 E. McDowell Mountain Ranch Road, Scottsdale
> DIRECTIONS: Pima north to FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT BLVD
> EAST on Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd, to THOMPSON PEAK PARKWAY
> NORTH on Thompson Peak Parkway, over the bridge to McDOWELL MOUNTAIN
> RANCH ROAD, EAST on McDowell Mountain Ranch Rd to the SCHOOL.
>
> WEAR A RED HAT OR SHIRT.
> WE NEED TO LOOK UNITED!
>
> You DO NOT have to speak, JUST BE THERE!!!! "YOUR" presence might
> be the "ONE" that counted!!!! Don't sit back and expect "the
> other guy" to do this. WE NEED YOU. This is just the first of
> many
> "land grabs" and "lost trails" if we don't start "SHOWING OUR
> PRESENCE" WE NEED YOU!!!
>
> This meeting is one of the most important meetings since the FS
> Roadless Meetings of a year or two ago... (we DID NOT make much of
> a showing and we LOST A LOT as a result). If we don't show for
> this one folks, it's just the first of many we'll be seeing on the
> CLOSURE LIST.
>
> The "ROLLS" area north of Saguaro Lake is on the map for closure
> and this one IS 4-WHEELER COUNTRY.
>
> Sycamore is always on the edge......... Forest Service has just
> closed a bunch of trails around the Superstitions. Those were the
> LAST of any motorized use in this area. We aren't going to save
> everything but you can bet your boots,if we don't start SHOWING we
> will eventually LOSE EVERYTHING.
>
18715 From: Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:40am
Subject: RE: Since ARCA is bypassing us this year how bout a VJC competition?
I think it is a good idea. I would like to compete locally. With peoples
knowledge like Bills and some others this should be doable. I will help with
it.
Ross
-----Original Message-----
From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@h...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 6:01 AM
To: LarryM; azvjc
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Since ARCA is bypassing us this year how bout a
VJC competition?
Actually, Bill Mish had a great idea...develop a friendly competition
between local clubs. Each club would put on it's own, and then would compete
with the winners from the other clubs. ASA would be the perfect sponsoring
organization...the only problem being that they don't recognize us since we
don't pay the ASA dues.
Either way, I think it's a neat idea.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryM" <jeeperaz@q...>
To: "azvjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 7:53 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Since ARCA is bypassing us this year how bout a VJC
competition?
> I was watching the video of last years ARCA challenge out at Flo Junction
> and was kinda bummed its not going to be here this year.
>
> It got me thinking that it would be cool to have our own 'unclub'
challenge.
> 5 to 7 obsticles per class, classes based on tire size perhaps.
>
> Any thoughts? Too hard to manage and organize?
>
>
>
>
18716 From: James Towle <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:47am
Subject: Re: Jeep vs moving train
I'm really surprised they didn't drag that thing on a flat bed. I
used to drive a wrecker, in my younger years, and I wouldn't have
picked that thing, (that looks like the second mistake).
--James
--- In az_vjc@y..., "LarryM" <jeeperaz@q...> wrote:
> http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=228683&a=10529068&p=39117891
18717 From: Dan Coley <mt_b@y...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:53am
Subject: Re: Jeep vs moving train
Duh what was I thinking, I shoulda been able to just look at and see
it has been through hell and back off road....he doesn't seem to care
much about body damage, I need to go wheeling with him sometime.
--- In az_vjc@y..., Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> Dan Coley wrote:
> > I guess those high-performance Z-rated Radial GT tires just don't
> > have the grip they claim too....on a jeep anyways. (I hope
everyone
> > gets my sarcastic remark, in regards to the MORON that put Radial
GT
> > tires on a Wrangler). If I offended someone, sorry, that but is
just
> > flat wrong.
>
> Dude. Those are his street/track tires. He probably has a set of
cut and
> grooved boggers for off-road. Sheesh.
18718 From: Daver <daver@c...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:59am
Subject: Re: Re:Read This
David Smith wrote:
> Maybe they should close it like bulldog canyon. There you have to go to
> downtown mesa and get a pass with combination's from the us forest service.
> This has really cut down on the traffic because the same irresponsible
> people are to lazy to go get the pass.
That seems like a reasonable idea to me. It would still allow
responsible access, AND would prevent a lot of the ugliness. Hopefully.
18719 From: <jerami@m...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 7:03am
Subject: New Jeep Wrangler..
Found this...
Yahoo! Cars
· Car Classifieds
Updated 24 hours a daySearch for a car
· New Car Guide
Every new car in then UK
· Car News
Latest headlines
Jeep Revamped For 2002
Organise a collection and buy a gold watch - Jeep's Wrangler is
finally going into retirement. But the firm is training up a
youngster to take its place, and while the newcomer is based on the
recently launched Liberty, it takes its cues from the 1997 Icon
concept.Chrysler's oldest surviving model has evolved very slowly
since the Willys Jeep was launched to serve Allied troops in World
War Two. But instead of receiving its annual facelift incorporating
minor changes, the Wrangler is to be given the biggest shake-up in
its history for the 2002 model year. Get set for an all-new chassis,
engine and much more modern styling.
Insiders say the new Wrangler is codenamed VJ and will share most of
its major components with the Liberty, which made its debut in
January at the Detroit Motor Show. Parts carried over include the
Liberty's independent front suspension and the all-new 210bhp 3.7-
litre Powertech V6 which is lighter and more compact and fuel-
efficient than the current Wrangler's 4.0 straight-six. A 2.4-litre
four-cylinder petrol engine with 154bhp plus a 2.5 turbodiesel will
be offered in Europe.
Jeep bosses know the benefits of the Wrangler's butch looks, and will
keep the old car's visual appeal. The final production VJ is said to
closely resemble a toned-down version of the Icon, which combines the
classic Jeep grille, flared wheelarches and flat windscreen with more
modern curves. Current Wrangler owners will be pleased to hear the
antiquated roof system has been binned. Instead of the separate
canvas and fibreglass tops, the VJ will use a lightweight recycled-
plastic hard-top with six removable panels. And although the car is
said to be more re- fined, fans needn't worry about it losing any of
the outgoing model's legendary off-roading skills. The suspension
system is said to offer extra spring travel, while a new gearbox and
electronic traction control will boost handling.
18695 From: <jaylalib@a...>
Date: Mon Feb 12, 2001 2:06pm
Subject: Jeep Jamboree
Does anyone know when the Jeep Jamboree is and is it worth going?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
18696 From: <jcorley@i...>
Date: Mon Feb 12, 2001 7:10pm
Subject: READ THIS!!!
I got this sent to me if you can help PLEASE DO.
Subject: Thursday meeting
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:20:05 -0700
From: "Mr Ed" <mred@m...>
Read This and Join Me
(Read it Completely)
Please Pass this on to all you friends, let's go and make a night
of it.
Wear a bright RED HAT or TEE at least.
(other clothing optional)
Lets pick a spot to meet prior to meeting
REMINDER
THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2001 AT 6:00 p.m.
DESERT CANYON MIDDLE SCHOOL CAFETERIA
10203 E. McDowell Mountain Ranch Road, Scottsdale
DIRECTIONS: Pima north to FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT BLVD
EAST on Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd, to THOMPSON PEAK PARKWAY
NORTH on Thompson Peak Parkway, over the bridge to McDOWELL MOUNTAIN
RANCH ROAD, EAST on McDowell Mountain Ranch Rd to the SCHOOL.
WEAR A RED HAT OR SHIRT.
WE NEED TO LOOK UNITED!
You DO NOT have to speak, JUST BE THERE!!!! "YOUR" presence might
be the "ONE" that counted!!!! Don't sit back and expect "the
other guy" to do this. WE NEED YOU. This is just the first of
many
"land grabs" and "lost trails" if we don't start "SHOWING OUR
PRESENCE" WE NEED YOU!!!
This meeting is one of the most important meetings since the FS
Roadless Meetings of a year or two ago... (we DID NOT make much of
a showing and we LOST A LOT as a result). If we don't show for
this one folks, it's just the first of many we'll be seeing on the
CLOSURE LIST.
The "ROLLS" area north of Saguaro Lake is on the map for closure
and this one IS 4-WHEELER COUNTRY.
Sycamore is always on the edge......... Forest Service has just
closed a bunch of trails around the Superstitions. Those were the
LAST of any motorized use in this area. We aren't going to save
everything but you can bet your boots,if we don't start SHOWING we
will eventually LOSE EVERYTHING.
PLEASE RALLY TOGETHER and make a showing at this meeting. The
basic
deal is the City of Scottsdale has petitioned the State Land Dept.
to make this area at Dynamite & Pima roads into a NON motorized
RESERVE. The Land Dept. is not wanting to eliminate motorized use
but if MOTORIZED USERS DO NOT make a showing they will have nothing
to stand on and will bend to the greens! If we lose motorized use
here we also lose access into the Tonto NF north of this area.
WHERE DOES IT STOP???? YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE. WE CAN SHOW THE
GREENS WE FINALLY MEAN BUSINESS !!!!!!!
A list of "talking points" for your information.
Tom Bickauskas
tbickauskas@h...
480 968-1647 x333
HOPE TO SEE ABOUT 500 OHV ENTHUSIASTS THERE!!!
PLEASE FORWARD THIS TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST
This Thursday February 15th
MARK THE DATE.
Your Crazy Wheeling buddy
.............................................. Mr. Ed ...........
18697 From: James Towle <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Mon Feb 12, 2001 7:26pm
Subject: Re: READ THIS!!! ...Thanks
Thank you for the information. I will try to get up there Thursday.
IT WILL NOT END UNLESS WE LET IT.
--James
--- In az_vjc@y..., jcorley@i... wrote:
> I got this sent to me if you can help PLEASE DO.
>
>
>
> Subject: Thursday meeting
> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:20:05 -0700
> From: "Mr Ed" <mred@m...>
>
>
> Read This and Join Me
> (Read it Completely)
>
> Please Pass this on to all you friends, let's go and make a night
> of it.
> Wear a bright RED HAT or TEE at least.
> (other clothing optional)
> Lets pick a spot to meet prior to meeting
> REMINDER
> THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2001 AT 6:00 p.m.
>
> DESERT CANYON MIDDLE SCHOOL CAFETERIA
> 10203 E. McDowell Mountain Ranch Road, Scottsdale
> DIRECTIONS: Pima north to FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT BLVD
> EAST on Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd, to THOMPSON PEAK PARKWAY
> NORTH on Thompson Peak Parkway, over the bridge to McDOWELL
MOUNTAIN
> RANCH ROAD, EAST on McDowell Mountain Ranch Rd to the SCHOOL.
>
> WEAR A RED HAT OR SHIRT.
> WE NEED TO LOOK UNITED!
>
> You DO NOT have to speak, JUST BE THERE!!!! "YOUR" presence
might
> be the "ONE" that counted!!!! Don't sit back and expect "the
> other guy" to do this. WE NEED YOU. This is just the first of
> many
> "land grabs" and "lost trails" if we don't start "SHOWING OUR
> PRESENCE" WE NEED YOU!!!
>
> This meeting is one of the most important meetings since the FS
> Roadless Meetings of a year or two ago... (we DID NOT make much
of
> a showing and we LOST A LOT as a result). If we don't show for
> this one folks, it's just the first of many we'll be seeing on
the
> CLOSURE LIST.
>
> The "ROLLS" area north of Saguaro Lake is on the map for closure
> and this one IS 4-WHEELER COUNTRY.
>
> Sycamore is always on the edge......... Forest Service has just
> closed a bunch of trails around the Superstitions. Those were
the
> LAST of any motorized use in this area. We aren't going to
save
> everything but you can bet your boots,if we don't start SHOWING
we
> will eventually LOSE EVERYTHING.
>
> PLEASE RALLY TOGETHER and make a showing at this meeting. The
> basic
> deal is the City of Scottsdale has petitioned the State Land
Dept.
> to make this area at Dynamite & Pima roads into a NON
motorized
> RESERVE. The Land Dept. is not wanting to eliminate motorized
use
> but if MOTORIZED USERS DO NOT make a showing they will have
nothing
> to stand on and will bend to the greens! If we lose motorized
use
> here we also lose access into the Tonto NF north of this area.
>
> WHERE DOES IT STOP???? YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE. WE CAN SHOW
THE
> GREENS WE FINALLY MEAN BUSINESS !!!!!!!
>
> A list of "talking points" for your information.
> Tom Bickauskas
> tbickauskas@h...
> 480 968-1647 x333
>
> HOPE TO SEE ABOUT 500 OHV ENTHUSIASTS THERE!!!
> PLEASE FORWARD THIS TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST
> This Thursday February 15th
> MARK THE DATE.
>
> Your Crazy Wheeling buddy
>
> .............................................. Mr.
Ed ...........
18698 From: Len Sullivan <kermit@e...>
Date: Mon Feb 12, 2001 7:18pm
Subject: Re: READ THIS!!!
Pam has to work then, but I'll be there. Anybody remember where we got
married?
Just look for the big white J-10 in the parking lot.
Len
-----Original Message-----
From: jcorley@i... <jcorley@i...>
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, February 12, 2001 8:08 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] READ THIS!!!
>I got this sent to me if you can help PLEASE DO.
>
>
>
>Subject: Thursday meeting
>Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:20:05 -0700
>From: "Mr Ed" <mred@m...>
>
>
> Read This and Join Me
> (Read it Completely)
>
> Please Pass this on to all you friends, let's go and make a night
> of it.
> Wear a bright RED HAT or TEE at least.
> (other clothing optional)
> Lets pick a spot to meet prior to meeting
> REMINDER
> THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2001 AT 6:00 p.m.
>
> DESERT CANYON MIDDLE SCHOOL CAFETERIA
> 10203 E. McDowell Mountain Ranch Road, Scottsdale
> DIRECTIONS: Pima north to FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT BLVD
> EAST on Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd, to THOMPSON PEAK PARKWAY
> NORTH on Thompson Peak Parkway, over the bridge to McDOWELL MOUNTAIN
> RANCH ROAD, EAST on McDowell Mountain Ranch Rd to the SCHOOL.
>
> WEAR A RED HAT OR SHIRT.
> WE NEED TO LOOK UNITED!
>
> You DO NOT have to speak, JUST BE THERE!!!! "YOUR" presence might
> be the "ONE" that counted!!!! Don't sit back and expect "the
> other guy" to do this. WE NEED YOU. This is just the first of
> many
> "land grabs" and "lost trails" if we don't start "SHOWING OUR
> PRESENCE" WE NEED YOU!!!
>
> This meeting is one of the most important meetings since the FS
> Roadless Meetings of a year or two ago... (we DID NOT make much of
> a showing and we LOST A LOT as a result). If we don't show for
> this one folks, it's just the first of many we'll be seeing on the
> CLOSURE LIST.
>
> The "ROLLS" area north of Saguaro Lake is on the map for closure
> and this one IS 4-WHEELER COUNTRY.
>
> Sycamore is always on the edge......... Forest Service has just
> closed a bunch of trails around the Superstitions. Those were the
> LAST of any motorized use in this area. We aren't going to save
> everything but you can bet your boots,if we don't start SHOWING we
> will eventually LOSE EVERYTHING.
>
> PLEASE RALLY TOGETHER and make a showing at this meeting. The
> basic
> deal is the City of Scottsdale has petitioned the State Land Dept.
> to make this area at Dynamite & Pima roads into a NON motorized
> RESERVE. The Land Dept. is not wanting to eliminate motorized use
> but if MOTORIZED USERS DO NOT make a showing they will have nothing
> to stand on and will bend to the greens! If we lose motorized use
> here we also lose access into the Tonto NF north of this area.
>
> WHERE DOES IT STOP???? YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE. WE CAN SHOW THE
> GREENS WE FINALLY MEAN BUSINESS !!!!!!!
>
> A list of "talking points" for your information.
> Tom Bickauskas
> tbickauskas@h...
> 480 968-1647 x333
>
> HOPE TO SEE ABOUT 500 OHV ENTHUSIASTS THERE!!!
> PLEASE FORWARD THIS TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST
> This Thursday February 15th
> MARK THE DATE.
>
>Your Crazy Wheeling buddy
>
>.............................................. Mr. Ed ...........
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
18699 From: Greg Stapley <love24wheel@h...>
Date: Mon Feb 12, 2001 8:13pm
Subject: Re: Since ARCA is bypassing us this year how bout a VJC competition?
I think the idea is great, but the date and planning would take a long time... I am very impatient..
>From: "LarryM"
>Reply-To: "LarryM"
>To: "azvjc"
>Subject: [az_vjc] Since ARCA is bypassing us this year how bout a VJC competition?
>Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:53:03 -0700
>
>I was watching the video of last years ARCA challenge out at Flo Junction
>and was kinda bummed its not going to be here this year.
>
>It got me thinking that it would be cool to have our own 'unclub' challenge.
>5 to 7 obsticles per class, classes based on tire size perhaps.
>
>Any thoughts? Too hard to manage and organize?
>
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
18700 From: KHD1972 <KHD1972@m...>
Date: Mon Feb 12, 2001 8:59pm
Subject: Re: READ THIS!!!
Count me in! Any decision on meeting before hand and where?
----- Original Message -----
From: <jcorley@i...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 8:10 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] READ THIS!!!
> I got this sent to me if you can help PLEASE DO.
>
>
>
> Subject: Thursday meeting
> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:20:05 -0700
> From: "Mr Ed" <mred@m...>
>
>
> Read This and Join Me
> (Read it Completely)
>
> Please Pass this on to all you friends, let's go and make a night
> of it.
> Wear a bright RED HAT or TEE at least.
> (other clothing optional)
> Lets pick a spot to meet prior to meeting
> REMINDER
> THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2001 AT 6:00 p.m.
>
> DESERT CANYON MIDDLE SCHOOL CAFETERIA
> 10203 E. McDowell Mountain Ranch Road, Scottsdale
> DIRECTIONS: Pima north to FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT BLVD
> EAST on Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd, to THOMPSON PEAK PARKWAY
> NORTH on Thompson Peak Parkway, over the bridge to McDOWELL MOUNTAIN
> RANCH ROAD, EAST on McDowell Mountain Ranch Rd to the SCHOOL.
>
> WEAR A RED HAT OR SHIRT.
> WE NEED TO LOOK UNITED!
>
> You DO NOT have to speak, JUST BE THERE!!!! "YOUR" presence might
> be the "ONE" that counted!!!! Don't sit back and expect "the
> other guy" to do this. WE NEED YOU. This is just the first of
> many
> "land grabs" and "lost trails" if we don't start "SHOWING OUR
> PRESENCE" WE NEED YOU!!!
>
> This meeting is one of the most important meetings since the FS
> Roadless Meetings of a year or two ago... (we DID NOT make much of
> a showing and we LOST A LOT as a result). If we don't show for
> this one folks, it's just the first of many we'll be seeing on the
> CLOSURE LIST.
>
> The "ROLLS" area north of Saguaro Lake is on the map for closure
> and this one IS 4-WHEELER COUNTRY.
>
> Sycamore is always on the edge......... Forest Service has just
> closed a bunch of trails around the Superstitions. Those were the
> LAST of any motorized use in this area. We aren't going to save
> everything but you can bet your boots,if we don't start SHOWING we
> will eventually LOSE EVERYTHING.
>
> PLEASE RALLY TOGETHER and make a showing at this meeting. The
> basic
> deal is the City of Scottsdale has petitioned the State Land Dept.
> to make this area at Dynamite & Pima roads into a NON motorized
> RESERVE. The Land Dept. is not wanting to eliminate motorized use
> but if MOTORIZED USERS DO NOT make a showing they will have nothing
> to stand on and will bend to the greens! If we lose motorized use
> here we also lose access into the Tonto NF north of this area.
>
> WHERE DOES IT STOP???? YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE. WE CAN SHOW THE
> GREENS WE FINALLY MEAN BUSINESS !!!!!!!
>
> A list of "talking points" for your information.
> Tom Bickauskas
> tbickauskas@h...
> 480 968-1647 x333
>
> HOPE TO SEE ABOUT 500 OHV ENTHUSIASTS THERE!!!
> PLEASE FORWARD THIS TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST
> This Thursday February 15th
> MARK THE DATE.
>
> Your Crazy Wheeling buddy
>
> .............................................. Mr. Ed ...........
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
18701 From: LarryM <jeeperaz@q...>
Date: Mon Feb 12, 2001 8:49pm
Subject: Jeep vs moving train
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=228683&a=10529068&p=39117891
18702 From: Rick VH <rick_vh@y...>
Date: Mon Feb 12, 2001 10:36pm
Subject: Re: Jeep vs moving train
I think that tire and wheel is still ok.
Thing about trains is they never come in last in a
wreck. The only time they dont win is with another
train, and thats a tie.
rick vh
--- LarryM <jeeperaz@q...> wrote:
>
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=228683&a=10529068&p=39117891
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
18703 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 5:01am
Subject: Re: Since ARCA is bypassing us this year how bout a VJC competition?
Actually, Bill Mish had a great idea...develop a friendly competition
between local clubs. Each club would put on it's own, and then would compete
with the winners from the other clubs. ASA would be the perfect sponsoring
organization...the only problem being that they don't recognize us since we
don't pay the ASA dues.
Either way, I think it's a neat idea.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryM" <jeeperaz@q...>
To: "azvjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 7:53 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Since ARCA is bypassing us this year how bout a VJC
competition?
> I was watching the video of last years ARCA challenge out at Flo Junction
> and was kinda bummed its not going to be here this year.
>
> It got me thinking that it would be cool to have our own 'unclub'
challenge.
> 5 to 7 obsticles per class, classes based on tire size perhaps.
>
> Any thoughts? Too hard to manage and organize?
>
>
>
>
18704 From: Jon Loveless <jonloveless@m...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 5:17am
Subject: Re:Read This
The Rolls area is heavily used by a number of those Hummer tour groups. I have seen a train of as many as 10 - each with 6 people in it heading up that long hill out from the Coves. That is big bucks for them when a corporation rents their fleet.Does anyone know how to get a hold of them to be sure they are there??
Peter Wirch, don't you know someone at Desert Fox?
Jon
At 04:44 AM 2/13/2001 +0000, you wrote:
> THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2001 AT 6:00 p.m.
>
> DESERT CANYON MIDDLE SCHOOL CAFETERIA
> 10203 E. McDowell Mountain Ranch Road, Scottsdale
> DIRECTIONS: Pima north to FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT BLVD
> EAST on Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd, to THOMPSON PEAK PARKWAY
> NORTH on Thompson Peak Parkway, over the bridge to McDOWELL MOUNTAIN
> RANCH ROAD, EAST on McDowell Mountain Ranch Rd to the SCHOOL.
>
> WEAR A RED HAT OR SHIRT.
> WE NEED TO LOOK UNITED!
>
> You DO NOT have to speak, JUST BE THERE!!!! "YOUR" presence might
> be the "ONE" that counted!!!! Don't sit back and expect "the
> other guy" to do this. WE NEED YOU. This is just the first of
> many
> "land grabs" and "lost trails" if we don't start "SHOWING OUR
> PRESENCE" WE NEED YOU!!!
>
> This meeting is one of the most important meetings since the FS
> Roadless Meetings of a year or two ago... (we DID NOT make much of
> a showing and we LOST A LOT as a result). If we don't show for
> this one folks, it's just the first of many we'll be seeing on the
> CLOSURE LIST.
>
> The "ROLLS" area north of Saguaro Lake is on the map for closure
> and this one IS 4-WHEELER COUNTRY.
>
> Sycamore is always on the edge......... Forest Service has just
> closed a bunch of trails around the Superstitions. Those were the
> LAST of any motorized use in this area. We aren't going to save
> everything but you can bet your boots,if we don't start SHOWING we
> will eventually LOSE EVERYTHING.
>
18705 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 5:41am
Subject: Re: MDA Jamboree
Huh? MDA isn't willing to accept a donation of less than $20,000?
I don't get it. I'm sure I could find another charity that would!
I must be missing some details here. Can someone clue me in?
-Roger
jcorley@i... wrote:
>
> Hi All, I just got off the phone with Mr. Ed and he told me that the
> jamboree is off. MDA wanted guaranteed of $20,000. The state
> could not so it is off. If you want to check with Sandee McCullen
> here is her e-mail: mccullen@w... she would have the last say.
>
> Jim
> 97 TJ
> Locked & Lifted
18706 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 5:47am
Subject: Re: Re:Read This
Not trying to be a traitor or anything...but the Rolls/Coves is probably the best example of how not to wheel. The area was decimated by the Lone Pine fire, and since then, many, many, wild cat trails have been cut, and the area gets totally trashed on a regular basis. Everytime I'm out there (which isn't much anymore) I see new trails cut, and a fresh collection of trash strewn about. I recall seeing one guy on an AzVJC run just cut himself a new trail down one of the hills. Apparently his attitude was that the place was trashed and burned anyway, so it didn't matter. A number of people tried to explain the error in his thinking, and I believe he quit the club as a result (no loss there). I recall another instance where some drunken wheelers at the Rollls were ramming a suguaro w/ their vehicle. That kinda stuff really pisses me off.
For those that want to close all trails, all they have to do is look at the Rolls for fuel for their fire. It reinforces their stereotype of 4 wheelers as beer guzzling, trash throwing yahoos driving over Bambi's and shooting up suguaro's.
If we weren't dealing with irrational environmentalists that would insist on keeping places closed forever, I think the best thing to do would be to give the area a break for a while and allow the land to heal for both the fire and from overuse and off trail driving. It's really a bit of an open scar as it exists now. Unfortunately, the extremists on the other side would never let it be reopened.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Loveless
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 6:17 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re:Read This
The Rolls area is heavily used by a number of those Hummer tour groups. I have seen a train of as many as 10 - each with 6 people in it heading up that long hill out from the Coves. That is big bucks for them when a corporation rents their fleet.Does anyone know how to get a hold of them to be sure they are there??
Peter Wirch, don't you know someone at Desert Fox?
Jon
At 04:44 AM 2/13/2001 +0000, you wrote:
> THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2001 AT 6:00 p.m.
>
> DESERT CANYON MIDDLE SCHOOL CAFETERIA
> 10203 E. McDowell Mountain Ranch Road, Scottsdale
> DIRECTIONS: Pima north to FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT BLVD
> EAST on Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd, to THOMPSON PEAK PARKWAY
> NORTH on Thompson Peak Parkway, over the bridge to McDOWELL MOUNTAIN
> RANCH ROAD, EAST on McDowell Mountain Ranch Rd to the SCHOOL.
>
> WEAR A RED HAT OR SHIRT.
> WE NEED TO LOOK UNITED!
>
> You DO NOT have to speak, JUST BE THERE!!!! "YOUR" presence might
> be the "ONE" that counted!!!! Don't sit back and expect "the
> other guy" to do this. WE NEED YOU. This is just the first of
> many
> "land grabs" and "lost trails" if we don't start "SHOWING OUR
> PRESENCE" WE NEED YOU!!!
>
> This meeting is one of the most important meetings since the FS
> Roadless Meetings of a year or two ago... (we DID NOT make much of
> a showing and we LOST A LOT as a result). If we don't show for
> this one folks, it's just the first of many we'll be seeing on the
> CLOSURE LIST.
>
> The "ROLLS" area north of Saguaro Lake is on the map for closure
> and this one IS 4-WHEELER COUNTRY.
>
> Sycamore is always on the edge......... Forest Service has just
> closed a bunch of trails around the Superstitions. Those were the
> LAST of any motorized use in this area. We aren't going to save
> everything but you can bet your boots,if we don't start SHOWING we
> will eventually LOSE EVERYTHING.
>
18707 From: Daver <daver@c...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 5:55am
Subject: Re: Re:Read This
Doug wrote:
> Not trying to be a traitor or anything...but the Rolls/Coves is probably the best example of how not to wheel. The area was decimated by the Lone Pine fire,
> and since then, many, many, wild cat trails have been cut, and the area gets totally trashed on a regular basis. Everytime I'm out there (which isn't much
> anymore) I see new trails cut, and a fresh collection of trash strewn about. I recall seeing one guy on an AzVJC run just cut himself a new trail down one of
> the hills. Apparently his attitude was that the place was trashed and burned anyway, so it didn't matter. A number of people tried to explain the error in his
> thinking, and I believe he quit the club as a result (no loss there). I recall another instance where some drunken wheelers at the Rollls were ramming a
> suguaro w/ their vehicle. That kinda stuff really pisses me off.
>
> For those that want to close all trails, all they have to do is look at the Rolls for fuel for their fire. It reinforces their stereotype of 4 wheelers as beer guzzling,
> trash throwing yahoos driving over Bambi's and shooting up suguaro's.
>
> If we weren't dealing with irrational environmentalists that would insist on keeping places closed forever, I think the best thing to do would be to give the
> area a break for a while and allow the land to heal for both the fire and from overuse and off trail driving. It's really a bit of an open scar as it exists now.
> Unfortunately, the extremists on the other side would never let it be reopened.
My opinion? Fine and ticket those that 1) discard trash 2) cut illegal
trails 3) bash saguaros 4) illegally shoot. And leave it open.
Goddamnit. "Since little Johnny here can't behave himself, the ENTIRE
CLASS has to stay in at recess." I hate that. I understand your point,
however, your last sentence is VERY true. And then some.
18708 From: Pete Wirch <wirch@m...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:03am
Subject: RE: Re:Read This
Jon,
Yeah I know John at Desert Dog Hummer Adventures. I'll get a hold of him and let him know. All the Hummer tour companies work together for big runs so they all know each other. I'll make sure they know about this and find out what they plan on doing to help out.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Loveless [mailto:jonloveless@mindspring.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 6:17 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re:Read This
The Rolls area is heavily used by a number of those Hummer tour groups. I have seen a train of as many as 10 - each with 6 people in it heading up that long hill out from the Coves. That is big bucks for them when a corporation rents their fleet.Does anyone know how to get a hold of them to be sure they are there??
Peter Wirch, don't you know someone at Desert Fox?
Jon
At 04:44 AM 2/13/2001 +0000, you wrote:
> THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2001 AT 6:00 p.m.
>
> DESERT CANYON MIDDLE SCHOOL CAFETERIA
> 10203 E. McDowell Mountain Ranch Road, Scottsdale
> DIRECTIONS: Pima north to FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT BLVD
> EAST on Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd, to THOMPSON PEAK PARKWAY
> NORTH on Thompson Peak Parkway, over the bridge to McDOWELL MOUNTAIN
> RANCH ROAD, EAST on McDowell Mountain Ranch Rd to the SCHOOL.
>
> WEAR A RED HAT OR SHIRT.
> WE NEED TO LOOK UNITED!
>
> You DO NOT have to speak, JUST BE THERE!!!! "YOUR" presence might
> be the "ONE" that counted!!!! Don't sit back and expect "the
> other guy" to do this. WE NEED YOU. This is just the first of
> many
> "land grabs" and "lost trails" if we don't start "SHOWING OUR
> PRESENCE" WE NEED YOU!!!
>
> This meeting is one of the most important meetings since the FS
> Roadless Meetings of a year or two ago... (we DID NOT make much of
> a showing and we LOST A LOT as a result). If we don't show for
> this one folks, it's just the first of many we'll be seeing on the
> CLOSURE LIST.
>
> The "ROLLS" area north of Saguaro Lake is on the map for closure
> and this one IS 4-WHEELER COUNTRY.
>
> Sycamore is always on the edge......... Forest Service has just
> closed a bunch of trails around the Superstitions. Those were the
> LAST of any motorized use in this area. We aren't going to save
> everything but you can bet your boots,if we don't start SHOWING we
> will eventually LOSE EVERYTHING.
>
18709 From: James Towle <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:02am
Subject: Re:Read This
Where were the cameras? We all tend to take pictures of our off road
adventures right? Why didn't somebody take pictures and turn them in?
It's easy to say (because I've done it too), it's not my business.
Take pictures getting the license number in them and turn the
*******s in.
I have seen people out by the Salt River (before it was closed) with
front end loaders, picking up boulders and basically tearing up the
landscape. Man if I would have had a camera, at that time, I would
have hung them out.
Just an idea.
--James
--- In az_vjc@y..., "DougB" <azjeep@h...> wrote:
> Not trying to be a traitor or anything...but the Rolls/Coves is
probably the best example of how not to wheel. The area was decimated
by the Lone Pine fire, and since then, many, many, wild cat trails
have been cut, and the area gets totally trashed on a regular basis.
Everytime I'm out there (which isn't much anymore) I see new trails
cut, and a fresh collection of trash strewn about. I recall seeing
one guy on an AzVJC run just cut himself a new trail down one of the
hills. Apparently his attitude was that the place was trashed and
burned anyway, so it didn't matter. A number of people tried to
explain the error in his thinking, and I believe he quit the club as
a result (no loss there). I recall another instance where some
drunken wheelers at the Rollls were ramming a suguaro w/ their
vehicle. That kinda stuff really pisses me off.
>
> For those that want to close all trails, all they have to do is
look at the Rolls for fuel for their fire. It reinforces their
stereotype of 4 wheelers as beer guzzling, trash throwing yahoos
driving over Bambi's and shooting up suguaro's.
>
> If we weren't dealing with irrational environmentalists that would
insist on keeping places closed forever, I think the best thing to do
would be to give the area a break for a while and allow the land to
heal for both the fire and from overuse and off trail driving. It's
really a bit of an open scar as it exists now. Unfortunately, the
extremists on the other side would never let it be reopened.
>
> Doug
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jon Loveless
> To: az_vjc@y...
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 6:17 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re:Read This
>
>
> The Rolls area is heavily used by a number of those Hummer tour
groups. I have seen a train of as many as 10 - each with 6 people in
it heading up that long hill out from the Coves. That is big bucks
for them when a corporation rents their fleet.Does anyone know how to
get a hold of them to be sure they are there??
>
> Peter Wirch, don't you know someone at Desert Fox?
>
> Jon
>
> At 04:44 AM 2/13/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>
> > THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2001 AT 6:00 p.m.
> >
> > DESERT CANYON MIDDLE SCHOOL CAFETERIA
> > 10203 E. McDowell Mountain Ranch Road,
Scottsdale
> > DIRECTIONS: Pima north to FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT
BLVD
> > EAST on Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd, to THOMPSON PEAK PARKWAY
> > NORTH on Thompson Peak Parkway, over the bridge to McDOWELL
MOUNTAIN
> > RANCH ROAD, EAST on McDowell Mountain Ranch Rd to the SCHOOL.
> >
> > WEAR A RED HAT OR SHIRT.
> > WE NEED TO LOOK UNITED!
> >
> > You DO NOT have to speak, JUST BE THERE!!!! "YOUR"
presence might
> > be the "ONE" that counted!!!! Don't sit back and
expect "the
> > other guy" to do this. WE NEED YOU. This is just the
first of
> > many
> > "land grabs" and "lost trails" if we don't start "SHOWING
OUR
> > PRESENCE" WE NEED YOU!!!
> >
> > This meeting is one of the most important meetings since
the FS
> > Roadless Meetings of a year or two ago... (we DID NOT make
much of
> > a showing and we LOST A LOT as a result). If we don't show
for
> > this one folks, it's just the first of many we'll be seeing
on the
> > CLOSURE LIST.
> >
> > The "ROLLS" area north of Saguaro Lake is on the map for
closure
> > and this one IS 4-WHEELER COUNTRY.
> >
> > Sycamore is always on the edge......... Forest Service has
just
> > closed a bunch of trails around the Superstitions. Those
were the
> > LAST of any motorized use in this area. We aren't going to
save
> > everything but you can bet your boots,if we don't start
SHOWING we
> > will eventually LOSE EVERYTHING.
> >
18710 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:17am
Subject: RE: State Jamboree dates
The MDA jamboree has been canceled. MDA pulled out.
-----Original Message-----
From: jraya@attglobal.net [mailto:jraya@attglobal.net]
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 5:10 PM
To: Hal Loy
Cc: AZ Virtual Jeep Club
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] State Jamboree dates
The MDA jamboree is April 27- 29. Runs are fri & Sat theres a rock crawl exhibition on Sun. Sandee said the application should be on there website sometime this week.
mccullen@writeme.com
Thx Judy
Hal Loy wrote:
I need to put in my vacation requests for this year and I'd like to go to the Jamboree, does anyone know the dates or Sandy McCullens(Sp.) e-mail so I can ask her? TIA,
Hal Loy
Tucson Roughriders
AZ Virtual Jeep Club
ASA4WDC
tucsonhal@earthlink.net I Jeep, therefore I am.
18711 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:24am
Subject: Re: Re:Read This
Good suggestion. I don't always have one (camera), but I do get involved. We
had one guy (from another club) on a recent run of Miner's Revenge, who was
needlessly tearing up some vegetation. I asked him to stop, and he
did...though I really don't think he got the concept.
In a free society, we (fortunately) don't have cops everywhere to write a
ticket when someone does something stupid. The responsibility of living in a
free society is to police ourselves. As a group, I think AzVJC does this
extremely well. When ever I'm on a run with the club, I see people (myself
included) picking up trash others have left behind. I rarely see someone off
trail driving, and when this happens, others step in to advise.
I'm very proud to be a member of AzVJC and recognize all the good things
(clean ups, etc) that we and out members have done. Unfortunately, there are
a lot of irresponsible people out there that are ****ing up the land and we
will pay for it. One of the principle reasons I'm into 4 wheeling is to
enjoy the wilderness...not to tear it up and destroy it.
Anyway...Happy Trails....
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 7:02 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re:Read This
>
> Where were the cameras? We all tend to take pictures of our off road
> adventures right? Why didn't somebody take pictures and turn them in?
> It's easy to say (because I've done it too), it's not my business.
> Take pictures getting the license number in them and turn the
> *******s in.
> I have seen people out by the Salt River (before it was closed) with
> front end loaders, picking up boulders and basically tearing up the
> landscape. Man if I would have had a camera, at that time, I would
> have hung them out.
> Just an idea.
>
> --James
>
> --- In az_vjc@y..., "DougB" <azjeep@h...> wrote:
> > Not trying to be a traitor or anything...but the Rolls/Coves is
> probably the best example of how not to wheel. The area was decimated
> by the Lone Pine fire, and since then, many, many, wild cat trails
> have been cut, and the area gets totally trashed on a regular basis.
> Everytime I'm out there (which isn't much anymore) I see new trails
> cut, and a fresh collection of trash strewn about. I recall seeing
> one guy on an AzVJC run just cut himself a new trail down one of the
> hills. Apparently his attitude was that the place was trashed and
> burned anyway, so it didn't matter. A number of people tried to
> explain the error in his thinking, and I believe he quit the club as
> a result (no loss there). I recall another instance where some
> drunken wheelers at the Rollls were ramming a suguaro w/ their
> vehicle. That kinda stuff really pisses me off.
> >
> > For those that want to close all trails, all they have to do is
> look at the Rolls for fuel for their fire. It reinforces their
> stereotype of 4 wheelers as beer guzzling, trash throwing yahoos
> driving over Bambi's and shooting up suguaro's.
> >
> > If we weren't dealing with irrational environmentalists that would
> insist on keeping places closed forever, I think the best thing to do
> would be to give the area a break for a while and allow the land to
> heal for both the fire and from overuse and off trail driving. It's
> really a bit of an open scar as it exists now. Unfortunately, the
> extremists on the other side would never let it be reopened.
> >
> > Doug
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jon Loveless
> > To: az_vjc@y...
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 6:17 AM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re:Read This
> >
> >
> > The Rolls area is heavily used by a number of those Hummer tour
> groups. I have seen a train of as many as 10 - each with 6 people in
> it heading up that long hill out from the Coves. That is big bucks
> for them when a corporation rents their fleet.Does anyone know how to
> get a hold of them to be sure they are there??
> >
> > Peter Wirch, don't you know someone at Desert Fox?
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > At 04:44 AM 2/13/2001 +0000, you wrote:
> >
> > > THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2001 AT 6:00 p.m.
> > >
> > > DESERT CANYON MIDDLE SCHOOL CAFETERIA
> > > 10203 E. McDowell Mountain Ranch Road,
> Scottsdale
> > > DIRECTIONS: Pima north to FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT
> BLVD
> > > EAST on Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd, to THOMPSON PEAK PARKWAY
> > > NORTH on Thompson Peak Parkway, over the bridge to McDOWELL
> MOUNTAIN
> > > RANCH ROAD, EAST on McDowell Mountain Ranch Rd to the SCHOOL.
> > >
> > > WEAR A RED HAT OR SHIRT.
> > > WE NEED TO LOOK UNITED!
> > >
> > > You DO NOT have to speak, JUST BE THERE!!!! "YOUR"
> presence might
> > > be the "ONE" that counted!!!! Don't sit back and
> expect "the
> > > other guy" to do this. WE NEED YOU. This is just the
> first of
> > > many
> > > "land grabs" and "lost trails" if we don't start "SHOWING
> OUR
> > > PRESENCE" WE NEED YOU!!!
> > >
> > > This meeting is one of the most important meetings since
> the FS
> > > Roadless Meetings of a year or two ago... (we DID NOT make
> much of
> > > a showing and we LOST A LOT as a result). If we don't show
> for
> > > this one folks, it's just the first of many we'll be seeing
> on the
> > > CLOSURE LIST.
> > >
> > > The "ROLLS" area north of Saguaro Lake is on the map for
> closure
> > > and this one IS 4-WHEELER COUNTRY.
> > >
> > > Sycamore is always on the edge......... Forest Service has
> just
> > > closed a bunch of trails around the Superstitions. Those
> were the
> > > LAST of any motorized use in this area. We aren't going to
> save
> > > everything but you can bet your boots,if we don't start
> SHOWING we
> > > will eventually LOSE EVERYTHING.
> > >
>
>
>
>
18712 From: Dan Coley <mt_b@y...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:32am
Subject: Re: Jeep vs moving train
I guess those high-performance Z-rated Radial GT tires just don't
have the grip they claim too....on a jeep anyways. (I hope everyone
gets my sarcastic remark, in regards to the MORON that put Radial GT
tires on a Wrangler). If I offended someone, sorry, that but is just
flat wrong.
Dan
--- In az_vjc@y..., "LarryM" <jeeperaz@q...> wrote:
> http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=228683&a=10529068&p=39117891
18713 From: Daver <daver@c...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:42am
Subject: Re: Re: Jeep vs moving train
Dan Coley wrote:
> I guess those high-performance Z-rated Radial GT tires just don't
> have the grip they claim too....on a jeep anyways. (I hope everyone
> gets my sarcastic remark, in regards to the MORON that put Radial GT
> tires on a Wrangler). If I offended someone, sorry, that but is just
> flat wrong.
Dude. Those are his street/track tires. He probably has a set of cut and
grooved boggers for off-road. Sheesh.
18714 From: Siade, Randy <randy.siade@u...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:43am
Subject: RE: Re:Read This
I agree in part. I spend lots of time at the coves but I really do not wheel there anymore. I use the access to take my kids fishing and hunting. These activities we all forget about some times. The coves has some of the best quall hunting in Arizona. Yes there are more idiots out there then in most places but we can all do our part by point out there errors. I also pack out as much trash as I can carry every time I am there. If we let them close down the coves which is one of the most heavily used places around then how will we stop them from closing everything??
-----Original Message-----
From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@home.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 6:47 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re:Read This
Not trying to be a traitor or anything...but the Rolls/Coves is probably the best example of how not to wheel. The area was decimated by the Lone Pine fire, and since then, many, many, wild cat trails have been cut, and the area gets totally trashed on a regular basis. Everytime I'm out there (which isn't much anymore) I see new trails cut, and a fresh collection of trash strewn about. I recall seeing one guy on an AzVJC run just cut himself a new trail down one of the hills. Apparently his attitude was that the place was trashed and burned anyway, so it didn't matter. A number of people tried to explain the error in his thinking, and I believe he quit the club as a result (no loss there). I recall another instance where some drunken wheelers at the Rollls were ramming a suguaro w/ their vehicle. That kinda stuff really pisses me off.
For those that want to close all trails, all they have to do is look at the Rolls for fuel for their fire. It reinforces their stereotype of 4 wheelers as beer guzzling, trash throwing yahoos driving over Bambi's and shooting up suguaro's.
If we weren't dealing with irrational environmentalists that would insist on keeping places closed forever, I think the best thing to do would be to give the area a break for a while and allow the land to heal for both the fire and from overuse and off trail driving. It's really a bit of an open scar as it exists now. Unfortunately, the extremists on the other side would never let it be reopened.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Loveless
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 6:17 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re:Read This
The Rolls area is heavily used by a number of those Hummer tour groups. I have seen a train of as many as 10 - each with 6 people in it heading up that long hill out from the Coves. That is big bucks for them when a corporation rents their fleet.Does anyone know how to get a hold of them to be sure they are there??
Peter Wirch, don't you know someone at Desert Fox?
Jon
At 04:44 AM 2/13/2001 +0000, you wrote:
> THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2001 AT 6:00 p.m.
>
> DESERT CANYON MIDDLE SCHOOL CAFETERIA
> 10203 E. McDowell Mountain Ranch Road, Scottsdale
> DIRECTIONS: Pima north to FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT BLVD
> EAST on Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd, to THOMPSON PEAK PARKWAY
> NORTH on Thompson Peak Parkway, over the bridge to McDOWELL MOUNTAIN
> RANCH ROAD, EAST on McDowell Mountain Ranch Rd to the SCHOOL.
>
> WEAR A RED HAT OR SHIRT.
> WE NEED TO LOOK UNITED!
>
> You DO NOT have to speak, JUST BE THERE!!!! "YOUR" presence might
> be the "ONE" that counted!!!! Don't sit back and expect "the
> other guy" to do this. WE NEED YOU. This is just the first of
> many
> "land grabs" and "lost trails" if we don't start "SHOWING OUR
> PRESENCE" WE NEED YOU!!!
>
> This meeting is one of the most important meetings since the FS
> Roadless Meetings of a year or two ago... (we DID NOT make much of
> a showing and we LOST A LOT as a result). If we don't show for
> this one folks, it's just the first of many we'll be seeing on the
> CLOSURE LIST.
>
> The "ROLLS" area north of Saguaro Lake is on the map for closure
> and this one IS 4-WHEELER COUNTRY.
>
> Sycamore is always on the edge......... Forest Service has just
> closed a bunch of trails around the Superstitions. Those were the
> LAST of any motorized use in this area. We aren't going to save
> everything but you can bet your boots,if we don't start SHOWING we
> will eventually LOSE EVERYTHING.
>
18715 From: Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:40am
Subject: RE: Since ARCA is bypassing us this year how bout a VJC competition?
I think it is a good idea. I would like to compete locally. With peoples
knowledge like Bills and some others this should be doable. I will help with
it.
Ross
-----Original Message-----
From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@h...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 6:01 AM
To: LarryM; azvjc
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Since ARCA is bypassing us this year how bout a
VJC competition?
Actually, Bill Mish had a great idea...develop a friendly competition
between local clubs. Each club would put on it's own, and then would compete
with the winners from the other clubs. ASA would be the perfect sponsoring
organization...the only problem being that they don't recognize us since we
don't pay the ASA dues.
Either way, I think it's a neat idea.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryM" <jeeperaz@q...>
To: "azvjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 7:53 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Since ARCA is bypassing us this year how bout a VJC
competition?
> I was watching the video of last years ARCA challenge out at Flo Junction
> and was kinda bummed its not going to be here this year.
>
> It got me thinking that it would be cool to have our own 'unclub'
challenge.
> 5 to 7 obsticles per class, classes based on tire size perhaps.
>
> Any thoughts? Too hard to manage and organize?
>
>
>
>
18716 From: James Towle <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:47am
Subject: Re: Jeep vs moving train
I'm really surprised they didn't drag that thing on a flat bed. I
used to drive a wrecker, in my younger years, and I wouldn't have
picked that thing, (that looks like the second mistake).
--James
--- In az_vjc@y..., "LarryM" <jeeperaz@q...> wrote:
> http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=228683&a=10529068&p=39117891
18717 From: Dan Coley <mt_b@y...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:53am
Subject: Re: Jeep vs moving train
Duh what was I thinking, I shoulda been able to just look at and see
it has been through hell and back off road....he doesn't seem to care
much about body damage, I need to go wheeling with him sometime.
--- In az_vjc@y..., Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> Dan Coley wrote:
> > I guess those high-performance Z-rated Radial GT tires just don't
> > have the grip they claim too....on a jeep anyways. (I hope
everyone
> > gets my sarcastic remark, in regards to the MORON that put Radial
GT
> > tires on a Wrangler). If I offended someone, sorry, that but is
just
> > flat wrong.
>
> Dude. Those are his street/track tires. He probably has a set of
cut and
> grooved boggers for off-road. Sheesh.
18718 From: Daver <daver@c...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:59am
Subject: Re: Re:Read This
David Smith wrote:
> Maybe they should close it like bulldog canyon. There you have to go to
> downtown mesa and get a pass with combination's from the us forest service.
> This has really cut down on the traffic because the same irresponsible
> people are to lazy to go get the pass.
That seems like a reasonable idea to me. It would still allow
responsible access, AND would prevent a lot of the ugliness. Hopefully.
18719 From: <jerami@m...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 7:03am
Subject: New Jeep Wrangler..
Found this...
Yahoo! Cars
· Car Classifieds
Updated 24 hours a daySearch for a car
· New Car Guide
Every new car in then UK
· Car News
Latest headlines
Jeep Revamped For 2002
Organise a collection and buy a gold watch - Jeep's Wrangler is
finally going into retirement. But the firm is training up a
youngster to take its place, and while the newcomer is based on the
recently launched Liberty, it takes its cues from the 1997 Icon
concept.Chrysler's oldest surviving model has evolved very slowly
since the Willys Jeep was launched to serve Allied troops in World
War Two. But instead of receiving its annual facelift incorporating
minor changes, the Wrangler is to be given the biggest shake-up in
its history for the 2002 model year. Get set for an all-new chassis,
engine and much more modern styling.
Insiders say the new Wrangler is codenamed VJ and will share most of
its major components with the Liberty, which made its debut in
January at the Detroit Motor Show. Parts carried over include the
Liberty's independent front suspension and the all-new 210bhp 3.7-
litre Powertech V6 which is lighter and more compact and fuel-
efficient than the current Wrangler's 4.0 straight-six. A 2.4-litre
four-cylinder petrol engine with 154bhp plus a 2.5 turbodiesel will
be offered in Europe.
Jeep bosses know the benefits of the Wrangler's butch looks, and will
keep the old car's visual appeal. The final production VJ is said to
closely resemble a toned-down version of the Icon, which combines the
classic Jeep grille, flared wheelarches and flat windscreen with more
modern curves. Current Wrangler owners will be pleased to hear the
antiquated roof system has been binned. Instead of the separate
canvas and fibreglass tops, the VJ will use a lightweight recycled-
plastic hard-top with six removable panels. And although the car is
said to be more re- fined, fans needn't worry about it losing any of
the outgoing model's legendary off-roading skills. The suspension
system is said to offer extra spring travel, while a new gearbox and
electronic traction control will boost handling.